Topic: The Klopp Template

[Giono]

Krieger. Hendrix is too free spirited to stay disciplined.

Hendrix would be more of a Ronaldinho type player...and partier. Klopp would not approve.

My bet is that Klopp is a fan of Rush and would have Alex Lifeson as his steady and unspectacular number 6.

[northern Monkey]

Feel like my original Alonso Vs Masch comment drifted a bit there!

I wasn't intending to hold Alonso up as the perfect Klopp no6.  More that in recent years the best deep lying mids we've had have been him and Mascherano (what a midfield we had!).  I'm certain Klopp would have happily embraced either or both immense talents if he had inherited them but with the talk of control-destroy-link functions, my own opinion is that Klopp would lean more towards the Alonso style than Masch for our current set up.

Masch was undoubtedly the better destroyer.  A beast at breaking things up and then moving the ball on simply but effectively.  Alonso is remembered for his range of passing and vision from deep but his defensive contributions should never be under estimated.

In our set up and with two athletic and dynamic 8's; eg AOC and Keita ahead of them, someone less physically dominant (while it would of course be nice to have your cake and eat it) but tactically astute with an eye for a pass sounds pretty exciting.

Maybe not the 100% fit I feel that's more likely direction than a destroyer minded player.

[fowlermagic]

If Alonso in his prime had the chance to grace the current midfield for a night he would match the night Prince rocked up on the stage with the likes of Petty, Winwood and Co (legends in their own right) and while quite content initially to play in tune with the lads, he be pulling on the reins eventually breaking from them on a solo that would rock everyone out of their socks. While it may not be what the organisers wanted the performance would no doubt leave you wanting more.

[afc tukrish]

Krieger. Hendrix is too free spirited to stay disciplined.

Ali is a wide defender, not a #6...

[Asam]

 

Do we need a #6 more for what they can do with or without the ball?

[PhaseOfPlay]

Do we need a #6 more for what they can do with or without the ball?

It's always both in a pressing team. We need someone who can press, cover the press, take the ball from any direction, carry it forward on transition, pass it in any direction in possession, and cover players who move out of position in the attack. And do it for 40+ games per season without getting injured.

[afc tukrish]

It's always both in a pressing team. We need someone who can press, cover the press, take the ball from any direction, carry it forward on transition, pass it in any direction in possession, and cover players who move out of position in the attack. And do it for 40+ games per season without getting injured.

Jam on it, also...

[PhaseOfPlay]

Jam on it, also...

You ask for way too much, my friend

[John C]

As Claire said, the other thread has been contaminated and has been tidied but it can stay locked for now.

Use this thread if you want to talk about the squad.

[Triad]

Surely Fekir signing will take us away from the template? is he really more Lallana than Coutinho?

[CraigDS]

Surely Fekir signing will take us away from the template? is he really more Lallana than Coutinho?

I’d argue a Lallana type player is closer to ‘Klopp’s Template’ than a Coutinho type.

[rawcusk8]

Will that mean we still need to sign cover for the front 3? If the potential signing of Fekir means he is covering midfield then we will need someone up top. Hope Harry Wilson gets a chance to impress next season

[Triad]

I’d argue a Lallana type player is closer to ‘Klopp’s Template’ than a Coutinho type.

Yes, I agree , but is Fekir that player?

[PhaseOfPlay]

Yes, I agree , but is Fekir that player?

He fekkin' better be

(This one could run on and on)

[Samie]

The Fekker can play #8 role if we stick to the 4-3-3 and keep our trident as it is. if we swap to a 4-2-3-1 then he can play across all three attacking positions.

[PhaseOfPlay]

Surely Fekir signing will take us away from the template? is he really more Lallana than Coutinho?

Looks like an amalgam of the two.

Would be interesting to see his distance and sprint stats though, as that has a huge bearing on whether he can play for Klopp or not.

[Gerry Attrick]

I'd argue Fekir is a move away from the kind of signings we've seen since Klopp came here, but I don't believe it's a bad thing. Went back and had a look at possession in some games and we failed to win 11 matches when we had over 60% of the ball;

Burnley- 71 (1-1)
Newcastle - 67 (1-1)
Man U- 62 (0-0)
Everton- 79 (1-1)
West Brom- 70 (0-0)
Swansea- 72 (1-0)
Man U- 68 (2-1)
Everton- 62 (0-0)
West Brom- 62 (2-2)
Stoke- 72 (0-0)
Chelsea- 68 (1-0)

To say that's way too many is an understatement. Therefore, it seems logical to look at what we can do differently next season and signing dribblers is definitely one way of changing up our tactics against these defensive teams. We don't really have any players I'd describe as dribblers right now, so we're labouring to disrupt the shape of teams in these kind of matches. Keita coming in will help things no end and adding Fekir would take us on even further. Both these guys love running with the ball at their feet. Fekir is not somebody you'd associate with sky high workrate and plentiful defensive contributions but I don't think that matters too much. We need variety in midfield and attack to avoid the same problems again next season.

[Samie]

These are his stat's this season.

[Samie]

Keita and Fekir as our #8's with our front three? Sweet Mother of Jaysus! Have mercy on all other souls.

[PhaseOfPlay]

It might only be Scott Brown of Celtic in that Scotland, but this is as concise a summary of the modern #6 as there is, from a pro who plays the position:

“It’s always going to be like that because people think that I’m unfair and lunge into challenges, but that really isn’t my game anymore,” said the Celtic captain. “My game is to get on the ball, keep a hold of it, dictate the tempo and play other people in. I cover positions and look after everyone on the park, sitting in front of the back four. I break up play but I stay on my feet and don’t lunge in; I slow the play down for my team-mates to come in and help me."

Edit - meant to post this in the midfield thread. D'oh!

[clinical]

Keita and Fekir as our #8's with our front three? Sweet Mother of Jaysus! Have mercy on all other souls.

Honestly will be unstoppable.

[PhaseOfPlay]

-----------------Karius
TAA----Lovren----VVD----Robertson
--------------Henderson
------Keita-----------Fekir------Mane
Salah------------Firmino

That front five would be devastating against possession teams.

But does it have the necessary guile against the low-block teams we have so much trouble with?

[clinical]

-----------------Karius
TAA----Lovren----VVD----Robertson
--------------Henderson
------Keita-----------Fekir------Mane
Salah------------Firmino

That front five would be devastating against possession teams.

But does it have the necessary guile against the low-block teams we have so much trouble with?

If we can't break down teams with that 5 then something is seriously wrong with our tactics.

[Djozer]

It might only be Scott Brown of Celtic in that Scotland, but this is as concise a summary of the modern #6 as there is, from a pro who plays the position:

Seems reasonable. He does still lunge in on occasion though, so he's not speaking complete truth there - don't think he's as bad as he was, but I've seen a few Celtic games and he's still got a bit of a psychotic side, though nothing like what he used to be according to my Celtic-supporting mates. Good player is Scott Brown though, reckon he could easily have made it in the English top flight had he chosen to move south of the border. One of those guys who love his club beyond any desire for greater remuneration (Celtic seem to have had a fair few of them), and you can't not respect that.

Also, that description of the role. There's elements there in what both Hendo and Can do, but they also seem to lack a fair bit of tactical nous for the role. Still wonder if Gini might be the best of our current lot at it, though assume we'll be bringing someone else in once Can toddles off. Wouldn't mind seeing Grujic given a shot, though I've no idea if he can do the "Scott Brown" role. Suspect not, although he does have a touch of the psychotic in him too.

[Samie]

-----------------Karius
TAA----Lovren----VVD----Robertson
--------------Henderson
------Keita-----------Fekir------Mane
Salah------------Firmino

That front five would be devastating against possession teams.

But does it have the necessary guile against the low-block teams we have so much trouble with?

Mate if you've seen much of Keita you know he'll just walk through these teams like the seas parted for Victor Moses.

[Samie]

Also another thing to note is Fekir is a lot more two footed than Phil. Even though he could use his left he alway's wanted to cut in onto his right.

[Djozer]

-----------------Karius
TAA----Lovren----VVD----Robertson
--------------Henderson
------Keita-----------Fekir------Mane
Salah------------Firmino

That front five would be devastating against possession teams.

But does it have the necessary guile against the low-block teams we have so much trouble with?

BY guile, do you mean some sort of playmaker who can spot and play a pass? I'd like to think that Keita can do that as he's a brilliant passer I think, but he seems a lot more direct than the typical No.10/playmaking No.8, or at least as how I conceive of them. Maybe that directness and dynamism would be more suited to Klopp's type of football though?

Having a look at your first post, it seems that Firmino might be the playmaker in this team if we can compare the roles to what Klopp had at Dortmund, although Gundogan would do some of that too, and Sahin before him. I'd hope that with Bobby, Keita and Fekir we would have enough nous against most of the bus parking teams (although I'm not sure if Fekir/whoever would always play as an #8, might see a bit more regular rotation with the front three?). Could maybe still do with someone who can move the ball with accuracy and quicker than Henderson/Can in the deepest midfield position maybe?

If we can't break down teams with that 5 then something is seriously wrong with our tactics.

Yup. That's a terrifying looking team. Like it a lot, hope we see it next season. Do wonder if Fekir's being brought in more as an #8, or as someone who can cover a variety of positions. If it's the former, then I wonder if we'll see one or two of our current group of midfielders (exclusive of Can) moving on to pastures new.

[PhaseOfPlay]

Also another thing to note is Fekir is a lot more two footed than Phil. Even though he could use his left he alway's wanted to cut in onto his right.

Phil was two-faced more than he was two-footed

[CraigDS]

Phil was two-faced more than he was two-footed

Burn

[Samie]

 

Vicious from PoP.

[Geormajesty]

So I know Melissa Reddy has mentioned before that we're still on the lookout for a young CB - the Guardian are now reporting we're looking at a Porto B player who we'd immediately send on loan.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/may/09/liverpool-diogo-leite-porto

Does this mean Klopp is happy with the 4 (and Gomez) he currently has? Is this guy just another Ilori that we're hoping to turn a profit on?

[PhaseOfPlay]

Vicious from PoP.

Should have won that comedy draft!

[Djozer]

So I know Melissa Reddy has mentioned before that we're still on the lookout for a young CB - the Guardian are now reporting we're looking at a Porto B player who we'd immediately send on loan.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/may/09/liverpool-diogo-leite-porto

Does this mean Klopp is happy with the 4 (and Gomez) he currently has? Is this guy just another Ilori that we're hoping to turn a profit on?

He seems to be fairly content with them. Hasn't he said a few times that there are not even "five centre backs in the world better than what we have," or words to that effect? I get that sometimes managers just, like, say stuff, but maybe he actually means it? I'm sure we can do better than Matip and/or Lovren, but the cost of getting a definite upgrade could be ridiculous and I think they're both good players, though of course both are not without their issues.

I've seen a fair few people on social media (and even on RAWK, sadly enough) come out with ridiculous pronouncements like "we'll never win *insert name of competition* with Lovren playing" but quite frankly I think that's idiotic and more than a touch disrespectful. I don't see our cantre half options as being notably worse than those of any other top 6 club. Well, maybe Spurs, but Spurs have the best players in every position in the league so that's a moot point. Not saying we can't get better players than what we have at the back already, but maybe Klopp doesn't see it as a pressing need? The rumoured extension for Klavan suggests he may be happy to stick rather than twist. reckon there's a fair chance we go into next season with the same defensive options, barring any outgoings.

[PhaseOfPlay]

He seems to be fairly content with them. Hasn't he said a few times that there are not even "five centre backs in the world better than what we have," or words to that effect? I get that sometimes managers just, like, say stuff, but maybe he actually means it? I'm sure we can do better than Matip and/or Lovren, but the cost of getting a definite upgrade could be ridiculous and I think they're both good players, though of course both are not without their issues.

I've seen a fair few people on social media (and even on RAWK, sadly enough) come out with ridiculous pronouncements like "we'll never win *insert name of competition* with Lovren playing" but quite frankly I think that's idiotic and more than a touch disrespectful. I don't see our cantre half options as being notably worse than those of any other top 6 club. Well, maybe Spurs, but Spurs have the best players in every position in the league so that's a moot point. Not saying we can't get better players than what we have at the back already, but maybe Klopp doesn't see it as a pressing need? The rumoured extension for Klavan suggests he may be happy to stick rather than twist. reckon there's a fair chance we go into next season with the same defensive options, barring any outgoings.

As well - scoring more goals has an 80% chance of winning you the league. Conceding less goals, only has a 65% chance. I may be a bit off on my numbers, but I do know that the best attacks have won the league more often than the best defences. Getting both right, of course, is the ideal. But without ideal resources, you are better off going for more goals than less. Rodgers knew that. Klopp knows it too, I think. City are - once again - proving it.

As long as there are 3 points for a win, 1 goal is roughly equal to 1 point. The more goals you score, the more points you get, on an almost 1-for-1 basis. If you can keep your goals conceded to 40 or less goals, you should be winning - or closely challenging for - the league.

[FlashGordon]

Have wanted us to sign Fekir since his pre ACL days. Would be absolutely over the moon if he's one of our targets. If we could pick up his mate Aouar as well we'd be all done with advanced signings for the summer.

[clinical]

Have wanted us to sign Fekir since his pre ACL days. Would be absolutely over the moon if he's one of our targets. If we could pick up his mate Aouar as well we'd be all done with advanced signings for the summer.

Yeah interest got the better of me and just been on couple of other rival forums to see what they think of us potentially getting him. Half are worried but the other half assume because we're getting Fekir that must mean Salah is 100% off  .

Idiots.

[Dr. Beaker]

Have wanted us to sign Fekir since his pre ACL days. Would be absolutely over the moon if he's one of our targets. If we could pick up his mate Aouar as well we'd be all done with advanced signings for the summer.

Aouar we going to afford him as well.

[rafathegaffa83]

The thing that is interesting with theorizing a Klopp model is that our style would likely look quite different had we signed Zielinski, Götze and Brandt instead of Wijnaldum, Mané and Salah.

So I know Melissa Reddy has mentioned before that we're still on the lookout for a young CB - the Guardian are now reporting we're looking at a Porto B player who we'd immediately send on loan.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/may/09/liverpool-diogo-leite-porto

Does this mean Klopp is happy with the 4 (and Gomez) he currently has? Is this guy just another Ilori that we're hoping to turn a profit on?

I think Klopp would only upgrade if he was able to sign someone who is a significant improvement. The Klavan extension provides him with an experienced back-up in the event the Gomez at CB plan goes awry, or there are more injuries. Would this not be similar to our winter interest in Akanji: young player with potential, but not needed immediately.

[FlashGordon]

Aouar we going to afford him as well.

Not sure but he's too salahvating a prospect to pass on.

[Penfold78]

I'm reflecting on this Klopp template thing. Should we include in our discussions the amount of running and psychological energy that is required as part of the Klopp template? I think it's timely to bring it up at the very tail end of the season because, in my opinion, we are witnessing Geggenpressing flip from a net gain to a net loss strategy. Klopp has lost 5 finals in a row now (happy to stand corrected). Klopp's players are expected to run a lot of kilometres during a match (happy to stand corrected: I couldn't find 17/18 stats on this but in 16/17 we dominated the list of players covering more than 11km per game).  I think there's a relationship here that ought to be looked into. There's nothing wrong with losing your edge at the end of a long season if you've achieved some huge successes during your peak fitness period. Unless.........unless you have a very big cup final or a crunch league fixture, or both.

Does the template need to cover depth, squad stamina and timing of peak fitness, as well as looking at which specific players best fit the groove?