Author Topic: Steve McManaman - Legend or big time charlie???????? (Read 67300 times)

Peeker · « **Reply #520 on:** October 30, 2009, 02:21:29 pm »

I dont actually mind hearing ex Reds who have played for the club and won trophies have a go at Liverpool..They have earned the right in a way for me to comment on the club. I dont agree with a lot of the comment but they have lived my dream of playing for the club so I tolerate them.

Its when I hear absolute clueless fucking idiots like Mark Bright, Tony Cascarino and Paul Merson trying to tell Rafa how to do his job that makes me angry.

fowlermagic · « **Reply #521 on:** October 30, 2009, 02:30:21 pm »

As a player he was probably one of our best right sided options in the past 20 plus years. If given a choice I would even have picked him before Johnston who’s attitude was spot on but probably not as gifted so in many ways if you could take Steve’s ability and mix it with Johnston’s never say die attitude (Kuyt like in many ways but definitely more talented) then you would have had a great right sided player.

Stigger · « **Reply #522 on:** October 30, 2009, 02:30:58 pm »

If he was born 10 years earlier he'd be seen as one of our best ever players; a star player in the all conquering 80s team. Unfortunately for him he was playing in the 90s team and won very little. There are players around in the 70s and 80s who were very fortunate to be surrounded by class players and won everything and are regarded as legends with no where near the talent of McManaman.

sirjames · « **Reply #523 on:** October 30, 2009, 02:32:03 pm »

Quote from: fowlermagic on October 30, 2009, 02:30:21 pm

As a player he was probably one of our best right sided options in the past 20 plus years. If given a choice I would even have picked him before Johnston who’s attitude was spot on but probably not as gifted so in many ways if you could take Steve’s ability and mix it with Johnston’s never say die attitude (Kuyt like in many ways but definitely more talented) then you would have had a great right sided player.

real question ... not sarcastic.
was his goals and assist ratio as good as kuyts was last year in any season?

Red Cez · « **Reply #524 on:** October 30, 2009, 02:41:55 pm »

Tosser. That is all.

fowlermagic · « **Reply #525 on:** October 30, 2009, 02:48:02 pm »

Quote from: sirjames on October 30, 2009, 02:32:03 pm

real question ... not sarcastic.
was his goals and assist ratio as good as kuyts was last year in any season?

Kuyt had a tremendous year last season but as players you are comparing a workhorse with a show jumper. While he may be a tosser as a commentator I have to think Mcmanaman would have been stunning in the 80s team or a perfect foil against the park the bus teams of today as he had a bit of magic in his game when you needed someone to do something out of the ordinary to win a match.

red_Mark1980 · « **Reply #526 on:** October 30, 2009, 02:58:01 pm »

I was a huge fan till he fucked us over.

Tosser

Old No7 · « **Reply #527 on:** October 30, 2009, 03:08:30 pm »

Quote from: Il Nina on October 30, 2009, 02:14:57 pm

Great player, but i think he has gone down in most people's opinions since he has become a pundit.

i actually think there are far worse pundits

Il Nina · « **Reply #528 on:** October 30, 2009, 03:09:57 pm »

Quote from: Old No7 on October 30, 2009, 03:08:30 pm

i actually think there are far worse pundits

yeah I would tend to agree with you, but I don't think people hold him all that highly as a pundit either. Doesn't bother me like, I tend to ignore what any pundit has to say lol.

khalilur · « **Reply #529 on:** October 30, 2009, 03:54:18 pm »

Left in worse circumstances than Owen. At least Owen let us recoup 8 mil rather than winding his contract down for nothing...

Peeker · « **Reply #530 on:** October 30, 2009, 04:32:00 pm »

Left in worse circumstances than Owen?? That is ridiculous.

McManaman was 'flogged' to Barcelona 12 months before he eventually left by Liverpool, which is convieniently forgotten by a lot of people. McManaman always said that he wanted to play abroad. Barcelona signed Rivaldo after using McManaman to speeden up Rivaldo's arrival. I believe Houllier and McManaman had a 'gentlemans agreement' so that Macca stayed for one more season.

Owen let his contract run down despite saying several times how happy he was, and that he is staying blah blah. He couldnt even be arsed to give a proven European manager in Benitez a chance of turning Liverpool around, citing "He wanted to win things" at Real Madrid.

To be honest the thing that astounds me more than anything is that Liverpool didnt fucking learn from the McManaman situation and they got their hands burned from Owen as well. Whoever was pulling the strings regarding this sort of thing (Im guessing Parry) dropped a monumental bollock.

Pissin all over the world · « **Reply #531 on:** October 30, 2009, 04:44:52 pm »

Great and very skillful player for us and maybe in a better side he would have won enough to be classed as a legend. But after he declared himself still a blue in his autobiography i cant stand the sight or sound of him anymore.

TomDcs · « **Reply #532 on:** October 30, 2009, 04:49:19 pm »

He's one of those players who I thought was going to be really special for us when he first burst onto the scene, he didn't end up being here long enough to be a legend imo. Ok he had some success at madrid but I still think of him as a bit of an unfulfilled talent because the way he used to flaot up the wing with the ball stuck to his feet (early days with us) was so much better than anyone else at the time, but it seems no-one regards him well, maybe it's just his character. I think the fact he talks shit, still wears those 3 peice suits and doesn't seem to have any kind of warm regard to the team that brought him on makes me unable to look back on his liverpool career positively $:-\$ , at least jamie redknap loves liverpool when he talks shit lol.

Xabier Alonso Olano · « **Reply #533 on:** October 30, 2009, 05:00:14 pm »

My favourite player of all time.

Not just Red player's either.

Underrated and under appreciated for his success as a footballer.

Always seems like a top top bloke as well.

Fucking Legend.

red_Mark1980 · « **Reply #534 on:** October 30, 2009, 05:24:45 pm »

Quote from: Peeker on October 30, 2009, 04:32:00 pm

Left in worse circumstances than Owen?? That is ridiculous.

McManaman was 'flogged' to Barcelona 12 months before he eventually left by Liverpool, which is convieniently forgotten by a lot of people. McManaman always said that he wanted to play abroad. Barcelona signed Rivaldo after using McManaman to speeden up Rivaldo's arrival. I believe Houllier and McManaman had a 'gentlemans agreement' so that Macca stayed for one more season.

1.Owen let his contract run down despite saying several times how happy he was, and that he is staying blah blah. He couldnt even be arsed to give a proven European manager in Benitez a chance of turning Liverpool around, citing "He wanted to win things" at Real Madrid.

2.To be honest the thing that astounds me more than anything is that Liverpool didnt fucking learn from the McManaman situation and they got their hands burned from Owen as well. Whoever was pulling the strings regarding this sort of thing (Im guessing Parry) dropped a monumental bollock.

1. And you feel this is different to McManaman how?

2. I'd argue Rafa coming in had a lot to do with it (i.e. actually getting money for the rat). Coco seemed to be convinced both would sign - and from what I've heard Rafa came in and was fuming Owen only had a year left

Fitzy. · « **Reply #535 on:** October 30, 2009, 07:49:41 pm »

Mid-1990s, at Anfield, when he got the ball the crowd began to buzz, no question about that. Along with Fowler, he was all that was good about Evans' teams. I loved watching him play football.

However, the main problem with Evans' teams was that often they were not really teams.

rafathegaffa83 · « **Reply #536 on:** October 30, 2009, 08:05:08 pm »

Quote from: red_mark1980 on October 30, 2009, 05:24:45 pm

1. And you feel this is different to McManaman how?

Probably the fact that McManaman stated he wanted to play abroad and stuck at it even when Perez tried to flog him back to England. He won a load of trophies and respect in the process. He was probably the best British footballing export since John Charles.

Owen on the other hand said he wanted to "win trophies," but quickly did an aboutface, when his England position looked in jeopardy. Owen never yearned to assimilate into Spanish culture (apparently he was buying English papers at Madrid airport, because he didn't know anywhere else to get them) and left at the first opportunity to the first English team that would take him (one that finished in 14th the season before)

Fitzy. · « **Reply #537 on:** October 30, 2009, 08:08:34 pm »

Quote from: rafathegaffa83 on October 30, 2009, 08:05:08 pm

Owen on the other hand said he wanted to "win trophies," but quickly did an aboutface, when his England position looked in jeopardy. Owen never yearned to assimilate into Spanish culture (apparently he was buying English papers at Madrid airport, because he didn't know anywhere else to get them)

Tell me this isn't so...that is shocking.

Come on, this is the worst piece of anti-Owen "evidence" I've ever read.

redcb500 · « **Reply #538 on:** October 30, 2009, 08:32:16 pm »

Will never forget that goal against Celtic.
Will never forget how he left our club.
As a pundit, he's better than pretty boy rednap.

Mr Sitter · « **Reply #539 on:** October 30, 2009, 09:03:56 pm »

Quote from: oldboybailey on February 3, 2008, 04:46:23 am

at the time he was playiin for us he was a fuckin star. was easy our best player apart from god for about 4 years an got us out of many a pickle includin the 1995 cup final, celtic uefa cup an crystal palace 6-1!!!!

might ave left under a cloud but when all is said an done the 90's would ave been fuckin dull without Macca

this. people have short mamories

Alan_X · « **Reply #540 on:** October 30, 2009, 09:08:18 pm »

Quote from: Fitzyboy on October 30, 2009, 08:08:34 pm

Tell me this isn't so...that is shocking.

Come on, this is the worst piece of anti-Owen "evidence" I've ever read.

"Unlike his Real compatriot Jonathan Woodgate, Owen made little effort to learn the language and one cameo is especially telling. Someone who knew him well revealed that Owen used to regularly drive from his Madrid hotel to the airport in order to buy English newspapers, never realising that, had he bothered to venture a few yards into the city, he could have bought the Daily Mail et al from numerous downtown kiosks. Such a lack of imagination left him far from suited to the expat life and a return to England the following summer came as no surprise."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2009/jul/03/michael-owen-manchester-united-newcastle

Daily fucking Mail as well...

I will always be singing YNWA · « **Reply #541 on:** October 30, 2009, 09:17:21 pm »

he is underrated by alot of people, he is a superb footballer

but for me he is not a legend for the club, he has not done enough for the club
the recent legends we have to me are hypia and fowler

Fitzy. · « **Reply #542 on:** October 30, 2009, 09:36:06 pm »

Quote from: Alan_F on October 30, 2009, 09:08:18 pm

"Unlike his Real compatriot Jonathan Woodgate, Owen made little effort to learn the language and one cameo is especially telling. Someone who knew him well revealed that Owen used to regularly drive from his Madrid hotel to the airport in order to buy English newspapers, never realising that, had he bothered to venture a few yards into the city, he could have bought the Daily Mail et al from numerous downtown kiosks. Such a lack of imagination left him far from suited to the expat life and a return to England the following summer came as no surprise."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2009/jul/03/michael-owen-manchester-united-newcastle

Daily fucking Mail as well...

Don't see why this is "evidence" why he didn't do well in Spain - to me it's straw-clutching. It's using a single story to explain a much broader and complicated issue and suits anybody who wishes to slag off Owen.

lfc_bhoy · « **Reply #543 on:** October 30, 2009, 09:47:53 pm »

Quote from: Fitzyboy on October 30, 2009, 09:36:06 pm

Don't see why this is "evidence" why he didn't do well in Spain - to me it's straw-clutching. It's using a single story to explain a much broader and complicated issue and suits anybody who wishes to slag off Owen.

He failed at Real because he's a shite footballer who relied entirely on through balls to latch onto and had no real nuance. Better?

thegoodfella · « **Reply #544 on:** October 30, 2009, 09:53:13 pm »

For me its like remembering an ex you had great fun with, one you don't love but don't necessarily hate either. Maybe once in a while you remember something nice about her and smile but other times you get these feelings of hatred when you remember her getting cozy with some twat on a bench (and you know that she did it on purpose just to annoy you too... that bitch).

Anyways, McManaman a legend, meh... not for me, but not a big time charlie either.

jaffod · « **Reply #545 on:** October 30, 2009, 09:53:54 pm »

No doubt about it he could play football and was instrumental in our 2 cup successes in the '90's.
Remember if he got subbed at home he would be in the Royal Oak before we got there, which pissed me off at the time if he had played shite.
Don't like him now to be honest, fucking bluenose spouting shite. And the (none) goal celebration was a disgrace too.

Fat Scouser · « **Reply #546 on:** October 30, 2009, 09:54:23 pm »

Gets on my tit, but I know people who know him and they reckon he's a dead sound lad. But as for legend... legend my arse

Fitzy. · « **Reply #547 on:** October 30, 2009, 09:54:25 pm »

Quote from: lfc_bhoy on October 30, 2009, 09:47:53 pm

He failed at Real because he's a shite footballer who relied entirely on through balls to latch onto and had no real nuance. Better?

Of course it's better as it is an argument centred around footballing analysis not a throw away anecdote. However, I still dispute that he "failed" at Real - 13 goals in 35 appearances doesn't really represent failure, especially when full first team appearances are limited.

Look, I don't like Owen much these days but the retrospective verdict on his abilites comes across as misguided at best and bitter at worst.

Fitzy. · « **Reply #548 on:** October 30, 2009, 09:56:18 pm »

Quote from: jaffod on October 30, 2009, 09:53:54 pm

And the (none) goal celebration was a disgrace too.

What?

I wonder if United fans think this about Giggs who often offers very low-key celebrations.

deisepool · « **Reply #549 on:** October 30, 2009, 09:58:06 pm »

Quote from: Fitzyboy on October 30, 2009, 09:36:06 pm

Don't see why this is "evidence" why he didn't do well in Spain - to me it's straw-clutching. It's using a single story to explain a much broader and complicated issue and suits anybody who wishes to slag off Owen.

Its obviously not evidence of why he didnt do well in RM as such, but I think it just about sums the c*nt up. There;s only 1 thing that matters to Owen and thats Michael Owen. Compare how Nando for example has settled into life in Liverpool. He left his beloved Atleti to win more (obviously not in the way Owen did but....) and when he came here he fell in love with the club and immersed himself in all it stands for (e.g. watching all videos of past teams etc). If Owen had any real sense of loyalty to anything other than himself he would have done the same in RM. I dont even think he has that loyalty to England. That love affair is (like everything else) all about HIM and glory for HIM.

Agree with those who say about Macca he did leave in a "better" way to Owen but I think he too lost any chance to be a legend with that.....

sheff-jim · « **Reply #550 on:** October 30, 2009, 10:01:57 pm »

Decent player - no more than that. Nowhere near legend status.

Fucked us over and left on a Bosman.

thegoodfella · « **Reply #551 on:** October 30, 2009, 10:14:41 pm »

Personally, I think that if a player leaves the club and says that the reason behind the move is to "win medals and trophies" with a "bigger team", then he should be automatically out of the 'legend" list.

MidMaestro · « **Reply #552 on:** October 30, 2009, 10:36:16 pm »

Quote from: sheff-jim on October 30, 2009, 10:01:57 pm

Decent player - no more than that. Nowhere near legend status.

Fucked us over and left on a Bosman.

Ron · « **Reply #553 on:** October 30, 2009, 10:45:48 pm »

All this fucked us over crap.
Alonso fucked us just as hard.
We only got some money for it.
And what about Keegan.
Or Rush.
They both left the club too.
And Fowler.

thegoodfella · « **Reply #554 on:** October 30, 2009, 11:09:25 pm »

Quote from: Ron on October 30, 2009, 10:45:48 pm

All this fucked us over crap.
Alonso fucked us just as hard.
We only got some money for it.
And what about Keegan.
Or Rush.
They both left the club too.
And Fowler.

Isn't each case a bit different?

In case of Alonso, I was more hard done by the fact that a huge majority of fans wanted him to stay and he decided not to. I get it that his relation with Rafa went down the drain, but he could've and should've stayed for the fans. My friend keeps using the "I would've left my job too if my boss was trying to get rid of me" but then again, I don't have thousands of fans singing my name in the office asking me to stay. Xabi would always be the one that scored the equaliser that night, and no one can take that away from him. It is the circumstances in which he left us that changed everything for me. Same goes for McManaman.

As far as Keegan and Rush are concerned, I doubt they left wanting to win "medals and trophies", however, I don't know the details about that era so I will avoid commenting on that.

Bennyo · « **Reply #555 on:** October 30, 2009, 11:14:49 pm »

Quote from: Old No7 on October 30, 2009, 03:08:30 pm

i actually think there are far worse pundits

Souness. Awful c*nt of a pundit, but still a great player.

Fitzy. · « **Reply #556 on:** October 30, 2009, 11:18:13 pm »

Quote from: Ron on October 30, 2009, 10:45:48 pm

All this fucked us over crap.
Alonso fucked us just as hard.
We only got some money for it.
And what about Keegan.
Or Rush.
They both left the club too.
And Fowler.

As far as I know the Rush departure was a lot about the club being happy to accept big money for Rush, which initially Rush was upset about. In fact, I think Rush played an extra season with Liverpool despite being "pre-signed" by Juve if memory serves. So essentially Liverpool had their cake and ate it for a season as they'd got their big money but still had the player - hardly a case of the club being "screwed" - somebody may be able to verify/polish these details.

The Gulleysucker · « **Reply #557 on:** October 30, 2009, 11:23:33 pm »

Quote from: thegoodfella on October 30, 2009, 11:09:25 pm

As far as Keegan and Rush are concerned, I doubt they left wanting to win "medals and trophies", however, I don't know the details about that era so I will avoid commenting on that.

Keegan leaving was announced about 12 months before he actually went. People were pissed off, I certainly was, and that last season was a little bit flat as far as Keegan worship was concerned, but at least we got the money and there was a tacit understanding that fair do's, he wanted to try Europe and fortunately Dalglish came, so the impact wasn't what we feared.
I think Rush was sold without his knowledge, according to his biog, so comparisons are perhaps not fair.

hassinator · « **Reply #558 on:** October 30, 2009, 11:51:52 pm »

Quote from: Alan_F on October 30, 2009, 09:08:18 pm

"Unlike his Real compatriot Jonathan Woodgate, Owen made little effort to learn the language and one cameo is especially telling. Someone who knew him well revealed that Owen used to regularly drive from his Madrid hotel to the airport in order to buy English newspapers, never realising that, had he bothered to venture a few yards into the city, he could have bought the Daily Mail et al from numerous downtown kiosks. Such a lack of imagination left him far from suited to the expat life and a return to England the following summer came as no surprise."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2009/jul/03/michael-owen-manchester-united-newcastle

Daily fucking Mail as well...

ha ha what a plank. what a judas plank.

as for macca a good player that i initially respected for looking after himself when he went to madrid but when i look back now i realise he is a self serving individual who not only supports everton but revels in dissing us every time he gets a chance on tv.

i am NOT interested in ex-pundits who attack us when they get the chance on tv particularly when its poorly expressed and ill formed. on my list i include macmanaman; souness; beglin and collymore. why can't more of them be like dalglish?

Sir Capon of Debaser · « **Reply #559 on:** October 31, 2009, 12:05:47 am »

Full time bellend !!

Why all of a sudden is he talking about 'us' as his club again,rather than 'everyone knows im a blue' type shite,like he spouted before the 2007 CL final.when going on about Fowler playing in the match ?

Ill tell you why,he's more attractive as an 'ex red' pundit,and pretend so called fan.than some c*nt who played for us and supported that shit across the park..