Topic: Cody Mathès Gakpo

[PhilV]

Its actually not his application i have a problem with its his agility, acceleration and style. He seems a bit too flat footed unless hes moved up a gear or two. If he gets the ball to feet he takes an age to go anywhere and his one useful skills seems to be running in one direction. It just takes him an age to get the motor started.

In terms of finishing hes not exactly good in the air or clinical like Jota and he doesn't have the same tenaciousness as Nunez.

I will say though that maybe hes been overused and its just becoming more evident. [b[Hes probably scored more than Origi ever did[/b] but big Div can do it when it matters and thats a key difference.

He hasn't. Then again Big Div played 100 or so more games for us than Cody has.

Cody unfortunately just doesn't seem to move in a way that is supportive of our other forwards, as other shave said, very slow/laborious even though apparently he can hit some serious speeds, it hasn't been evident.

Some on here seem to have issue with him receiving criticism on RAWK and doing the old we are supporters, we have to support argument... pitch side sure, but on an internet forum we are allowed to have discussions and differences of opinion on players, otherwise what is the point of places like RAWK? Pitch side ALWAYS support only and backing of the team, but on here I think it is acceptable to voice concerns and/or frustrations.

Cody wasn't at the tempo/intensity/wavelength that the game was on the other day and unfortunately his substitution was zero impact, if some disagree with that, that is fine, and it is also true that errors from Nunez and Elliott/Endo gave away the last two United goals, but Cody's introduction was detrimental to our attack, that is my opinion.

[Stockholm Syndrome]

Diouf?

Fair point but also I was too young to really notice too much about what he was doing and why it was significant. Like I knew what he had done and knew it was bad, but I was 9, I had other more important things to think about like school and cartoons

[Dazzer23]

He hasn't. Then again Big Div played 100 or so more games for us than Cody has.

Cody unfortunately just doesn't seem to move in a way that is supportive of our other forwards, as other shave said, very slow/laborious even though apparently he can hit some serious speeds, it hasn't been evident.

Some on here seem to have issue with him receiving criticism on RAWK and doing the old we are supporters, we have to support argument... pitch side sure, but on an internet forum we are allowed to have discussions and differences of opinion on players, otherwise what is the point of places like RAWK? Pitch side ALWAYS support only and backing of the team, but on here I think it is acceptable to voice concerns and/or frustrations.

Cody wasn't at the tempo/intensity/wavelength that the game was on the other day and unfortunately his substitution was zero impact, if some disagree with that, that is fine, and it is also true that errors from Nunez and Elliott/Endo gave away the last two United goals, but Cody's introduction was detrimental to our attack, that is my opinion.

I was just trying to formulate the exact same sentiment, but you have put it better than I would have done

The way some have reacted on here you'd think the guy was getting booed by his own supporters. If and when he features against Brighton he will be getting cheered on in just the same way as everyone else.

In the meantime this is a discussion forum where people discuss our players and what they bring. If some feel he is falling short they should be allowed to view that opinion, as likewise are those that think the opposite. Unless stuff has been removed that I've not seen, I don't think there is anything that has been posted on this thread since Sunday that over-steps the mark in IMO.  The 'call yourself a supporter' retorts I find a bit of a weird over-reaction.

[mattD]

He hasn't. Then again Big Div played 100 or so more games for us than Cody has.

Cody unfortunately just doesn't seem to move in a way that is supportive of our other forwards, as other shave said, very slow/laborious even though apparently he can hit some serious speeds, it hasn't been evident.

Some on here seem to have issue with him receiving criticism on RAWK and doing the old we are supporters, we have to support argument... pitch side sure, but on an internet forum we are allowed to have discussions and differences of opinion on players, otherwise what is the point of places like RAWK? Pitch side ALWAYS support only and backing of the team, but on here I think it is acceptable to voice concerns and/or frustrations.

Cody wasn't at the tempo/intensity/wavelength that the game was on the other day and unfortunately his substitution was zero impact, if some disagree with that, that is fine, and it is also true that errors from Nunez and Elliott/Endo gave away the last two United goals, but Cody's introduction was detrimental to our attack, that is my opinion.

I recall Divock's initial appearances for the club under Brendan in 15/16 (think I'm right that was his debut season for the club). He looked everything people are slating Gakpo for, and would never have imagined in a million years he would be the star of so many great moments for the club.

That came under Jurgen's guidance however, I don't think there's a better manager in the world of turning decent players into brilliant ones and I have my doubts if Gakpo could improve under another manager. Then again, a wild assumption but if Alonso comes in, with a greater emphasis on possession and maybe a slower style of play, it might suit Gakpo. If it's Amorim, who seems more rapid in style, perhaps not.

[SamLad]

I couldn't care less what match you want to use, even if its a Hodgson one with Konchesky and Joe Cole. Only supporting players you think are good is an absolutely awful attitude.

x1000

[SamLad]

My mindset is always support the player so long as they are actually putting the effort in and not taking the piss out the club.

In my 25 years supporting, I think only Paul Konchesky is the one who failed that test after he and his mum starting mouthing off about us as fans.

Otherwise however good or bad they were the players are trying to win for us so they deserve our support. 

Poulsen by the time he got to us could not run, tackle, or pass, but he tried every single game so he deserved a level of respect, wasn't his fault he was signed by Hodgson.

Gakpo does try, he does put the effort in. He looks slightly chilled in his style of play but that's just how he plays, I don't doubt he is trying at any point. Whether he is good enough for us is a question for the summer, but while he is here he is trying and he deserves support every time he plays

Balotelli !!!!

[JP!]

I dont know why you keep arguing this on a semantic basis to justify the bad reaction of a whole fan base. Worse things have been said in this thread and much worse have been said elsewhere.

A better way to put it is "why is he getting the most hate after a game where he's not the biggest problem?"

And as for your request, the guys at Redmen TV literally said he cost us the game https://youtu.be/MoGhwkkeMPk?t=554

Because people keep saying 'scapegoat scapegoat scapegoat' and it's fucking irritating because there's absolutely no evidence of that other than people saying he was crap. Which he was. So was mostly everyone else, and people have posted about that too.

No one's getting 'hate' - it's not fucking Twitter.  The reason for the volume of posts is it's not the first time it's happened and people are debating his role in the team because he doesn't look particularly suited to playing in any of the roles he's played in.  It's a fucking forum.  If we all just posted everyone was fantastic and great all the time it wouldn't be much of a forum, equally if we said everyone was shite all the time it wouldn't either.

Anyone who has extrapolated these criticisms of a players performance to 'they don't support players' is talking fucking rubbish for the most part. It's a discussion forum on the Internet, it's really not that deep. Come the matchday I'm not sitting here thinking 'oh please let Gakpo be shit so I can post about it'.  Maybe some do, but on the whole I don't think anyone gives a shit who puts our shirt on, they have our backing. I want him to score and play well.

Ultimately, it's a discussion forum and people are going to talk about bad performances if they keep happening. I've no idea why people can't grasp this concept and it's particularly galling to get it from the likes of you who talk to people like shit and have constantly criticised other players in other threads on far less grounds.  Also no idea why Gakpo is seen as the 'scapegoat' when people are posting things like Elliott being on the level of Jay Spearing. Most of what I've seen in here has been relatively balanced and nuanced analysis of a player who looks a poor fit in our system.

Also unless The Redmen TV post on here that has absolutely no relevance, but I'll spell it out - Gakpo didn't cost us the game. 

He's not my scapegoat nor do I honestly think he's anyone elses.  My personal view is we were crap tactically and played into United's hands. I've posted that so much and said it in so many posts I feel like Al about Endo.  That had nothing to do with Gakpo, or any individual really.  He was, however, poor, again, and that's why people are here and debating him.

[Sheer Magnetism]

I'd agree that Gakpo's performances have been fifth best out of our front three this year, but who has a better fifth choice in that position in Europe? Even Grealish has been crap for City this season. A goal or assist every 121 minutes isn't jaw dropping but it is very good.

For me, the question is whether the criticism is fair and respectful. If people are criticising aspects of Gakpo's play, that's fine. I don't have a problem with people suggesting we could upgrade either (though I'm not sure I'd necessarily agree), but someone would have to be playing far worse for me to label them as crap. In general, it's not that difficult to criticise someone's play without labelling them 'braindead', 'weakling', 'not arsed' or 'nightmare signing' and remaining respectful of the person.

And a lot of these are exaggerated, especially whoever suggested Gakpo's performance (after coming in on 77 minutes!) was bad enough to lead to Edwards overhauling the DoF structure. The 'worse Havertz' line is especially laughable, as they're very different players and Havertz has been really good recently.

[Mister Flip Flop]

All this "scapegoat" stuff is nonsense. He's a pro footballer who hasn't been at the level required since we signed him that's just a fact. There isn't a single game he's played where anyone who's genuine could say this lad is special and is an upgrade on Origi even. I hope to christ he can improve and step up in these final weeks as we desperately need him to now with Jota out.

[SamLad]

All this "scapegoat" stuff is nonsense. He's a pro footballer who hasn't been at the level required since we signed him that's just a fact. There isn't a single game he's played where anyone who's genuine could say this lad is special and is an upgrade on Origi even. I hope to christ he can improve and step up in these final weeks as we desperately need him to now with Jota out.

you know more than Klopp, obviously.  you know Klopp - the guy who puts Cody on the pitch virtually every game he's available to play?

[jillcwhomever]

All this "scapegoat" stuff is nonsense. He's a pro footballer who hasn't been at the level required since we signed him that's just a fact. There isn't a single game he's played where anyone who's genuine could say this lad is special and is an upgrade on Origi even. I hope to christ he can improve and step up in these final weeks as we desperately need him to now with Jota out.

Not every player has to be special. Every team has many different types of players do you really not realise after all this time, than rather than being a team of superstars this is a team. It is what Kloppo is all about. If you want a team of superstars perhaps you need to support someone different.

[skipper757]

It's the fine line when the pressure is on.  He's been a decent player, but we were going for 4 trophies in Klopp's final year.  The pressure is just different, particularly with injuries.  If we were solidly Top 4, humming along in the CL, Cody is getting up to speed, and Klopp is just getting started, I don't think too many people would be bothered by his impact.

When you think about the fine margins that determine how many major trophies Klopp can win, the pressure really is on.  Add to the fact that Salah and Jota have been injured, and you're expecting Cody to step in.  He's played in Europe every season, played well over 150 times for PSV, been here a year, and scored at the World Cup.  It's not like he's a kid who's just breaking into the first team.  So naturally, when we're outplaying City at 1-1 or trying to see out a rare FA Cup win at Old Trafford, you're hoping for at least an Origi type hero moment.  Instead, he doesn't really do much.  It's not like he's cost us matches, but he just hasn't had the moments for getting us over the line in big games.

It's both the blessing and unfortunate circumstance around big big pressure games.  Origi is a hero forever for his big game moments.  If Cody scores the winner in the PL (like Darwin did) and helps us overcome Atalanta and Benfica/Marseille on the way to the EL final, he'd be loved.  At the same time, when we desperately need a moment of magic in a massive game (like City), and he doesn't really make an impact, it stands out glaringly, especially when compared to Salah/Nunez/Jota/Mane/Firmino/Origi.  Diaz gets some stick for poor end product, but his work rate and dangerous dribbling ability tend to stick out (see City even as he missed multiple chances). 

Cody just hasn't been able to "wow the crowd" and have his moment yet this season.  But there's still time.

[SamLad]

Not every player has to be special. Every team has many different types of players do you really not realise after all this time, than rather than being a team of superstars this is a team. It is what Kloppo is all about. If you want a team of superstars perhaps you need to support someone different.

x 1000.

I hear PSG is looking for new fans.  and the Harlem Globetrotters are always an option.

[robertobaggio37]

x 1000.

I hear PSG is looking for new fans.  and the Harlem Globetrotters are always an option.

Go on, apply then.

[SamLad]

Go on, apply then.

oooh, that burns!   

[Redley]

All this "scapegoat" stuff is nonsense. He's a pro footballer who hasn't been at the level required since we signed him that's just a fact. There isn't a single game he's played where anyone who's genuine could say this lad is special and is an upgrade on Origi even. I hope to christ he can improve and step up in these final weeks as we desperately need him to now with Jota out.

[PEG2K]

I don't mind the criticism and never use the "support our players" card either. But the criticism has to be valid. Like the guy above who said :

He's a pro footballer who hasn't been at the level required since we signed him that's just a fact. There isn't a single game he's played where anyone who's genuine could say this lad is special and is an upgrade on Origi even

This is a shit opinion. I can flat out say that.

I have tried to make the argument that his performance was not that bad, with as much footballing evidence as I can gather, but no one is able to debate it. Rather just make up your mind based on a vague feeling which mostly stems from that 5v2 situation, which once again, is very selective, because other players made even worse mistakes in that game. I mean the definition of scapegoating is not that you have to say "he lost us the game". If several are at fault and the one who is (a) not responsible for a big part of it, and (b) normally not a fan favorite, gets the most criticism, that is scapegoating.

I've had enough of this board. I came to this board thinking it was the place where I can find the most informative, thoughtful discussions compared to the shit hole that is twitter or reddit, but turns out it's not much better. I will stay away from internet discussion myself from now.

[RedDeadRejection]

All this "scapegoat" stuff is nonsense. He's a pro footballer who hasn't been at the level required since we signed him that's just a fact. There isn't a single game he's played where anyone who's genuine could say this lad is special and is an upgrade on Origi even. I hope to christ he can improve and step up in these final weeks as we desperately need him to now with Jota out.

Hyperbolic nonsense

[SamLad]

I don't mind the criticism and never use the "support our players" card either. But the criticism has to be valid. Like the guy above who said :This is a shit opinion. I can flat out say that.

I have tried to make the argument that his performance was not that bad, with as much footballing evidence as I can gather, but no one is able to debate it. Rather just make up your mind based on a vague feeling which mostly stems from that 5v2 situation, which once again, is very selective, because other players made even worse mistakes in that game. I mean the definition of scapegoating is not that you have to say "he lost us the game". If several are at fault and the one who is (a) not responsible for a big part of it, and (b) normally not a fan favorite, gets the most criticism, that is scapegoating.

I've had enough of this board. I came to this board thinking it was the place where I can find the most informative, thoughtful discussions compared to the shit hole that is twitter or reddit, but turns out it's not much better. I will stay away from internet discussion myself from now.

lots of threads on RAWK are fine - just stay away from the player threads after we / he has had a disappointing performance.  the idiots and know-it-alls come out of the woodwork.  it's a pure waste of time trying to engage in any kind of discussion with some of them, life's too short.

[Redley]

I feel like it needs repeating...Origi wasn't a particularly good player. Probably our most 'clutch' player ever, and has the best 'iconic moments to minutes' ratio out of probably any player ever. But fuck knows what Origi people were watching when they're claiming that Gakpo isn't as good as him. There's a reason he only got 2 goals and 1 assist in 36 games for Milan and then got bumped off to Forest, where he's got one goal and one assist in 17. The man should never have to pay for a drink in Liverpool again...but Gakpo is quite a lot better than he was.

[Mister Flip Flop]

I don't mind the criticism and never use the "support our players" card either. But the criticism has to be valid. Like the guy above who said :This is a shit opinion. I can flat out say that.

I have tried to make the argument that his performance was not that bad, with as much footballing evidence as I can gather, but no one is able to debate it. Rather just make up your mind based on a vague feeling which mostly stems from that 5v2 situation, which once again, is very selective, because other players made even worse mistakes in that game. I mean the definition of scapegoating is not that you have to say "he lost us the game". If several are at fault and the one who is (a) not responsible for a big part of it, and (b) normally not a fan favorite, gets the most criticism, that is scapegoating.

I've had enough of this board. I came to this board thinking it was the place where I can find the most informative, thoughtful discussions compared to the shit hole that is twitter or reddit, but turns out it's not much better. I will stay away from internet discussion myself from now.

You are probably better off not on the board then because you obviously aren't very good at basic comprehension. I never once mentioned the 5 v 2 or he lost us the game but yeah adios all the same.

[Historical Fool]

I don't mind the criticism and never use the "support our players" card either. But the criticism has to be valid. Like the guy above who said :This is a shit opinion. I can flat out say that.

I have tried to make the argument that his performance was not that bad, with as much footballing evidence as I can gather, but no one is able to debate it. Rather just make up your mind based on a vague feeling which mostly stems from that 5v2 situation, which once again, is very selective, because other players made even worse mistakes in that game. I mean the definition of scapegoating is not that you have to say "he lost us the game". If several are at fault and the one who is (a) not responsible for a big part of it, and (b) normally not a fan favorite, gets the most criticism, that is scapegoating.

I've had enough of this board. I came to this board thinking it was the place where I can find the most informative, thoughtful discussions compared to the shit hole that is twitter or reddit, but turns out it's not much better. I will stay away from internet discussion myself from now.

I hope you don’t go, Stan, but best of luck if that’s what you decide …

[Fromola]

I feel like it needs repeating...Origi wasn't a particularly good player. Probably our most 'clutch' player ever, and has the best 'iconic moments to minutes' ratio out of probably any player ever. But fuck knows what Origi people were watching when they're claiming that Gakpo isn't as good as him. There's a reason he only got 2 goals and 1 assist in 36 games for Milan and then got bumped off to Forest, where he's got one goal and one assist in 17. The man should never have to pay for a drink in Liverpool again...but Gakpo is quite a lot better than he was.

Origi was a wildcard/lucky charm, but he was certainly a moments player. He was terrible in that CL final when he came on (doing some of the things Gakpo criticised for while we were hanging onto a lead) but then bangs in the clinching goal for us. That's what he could do.

Gakpo is a good enough squad player, the issue is he's not balancing out the squad. We've got Nunez and Jota who are more effective than him through the middle (or on the left) and there's Danns coming through as well.

Therefore in any position on the pitch he's at best our 3rd best option. If he could cover right across the front line or CAM to a decent standard then that would be fine, but he's been like a fish out of water in midfield when played there and not really featured out wide at all.

Gakpo has done okay for us, but I don't think the signing was thought through given the make-up of the squad.

[Bobinhood]

Personally i think this assumption that hes not been good or isn't at the level is nonsense. Hes a very good player and he's been running long and hard in the injury absence of many others.

[StevoHimself]

Anyone who has extrapolated these criticisms of a players performance to 'they don't support players' is talking fucking rubbish for the most part. It's a discussion forum on the Internet, it's really not that deep. Come the matchday I'm not sitting here thinking 'oh please let Gakpo be shit so I can post about it'.  Maybe some do, but on the whole I don't think anyone gives a shit who puts our shirt on, they have our backing. I want him to score and play well.

There's a few on here whose response to basically even the mildest criticism or negativity is to treat it like some massive betrayal of the club's values. It's very strange. I can't tell you how badly I cringe when someone with the energy of a substitute geography teacher says something as dramatic and, let's get it right, as childish as "you don't deserve these players."

I wonder if it's something to do with the idea of what the club and the fans are supposed to be being sort of filtered through the internet and it's black-and-white morality. I've met hundreds of Liverpool fans from the city and elsewhere and the one thing they very rarely are is precious.

With that said, we are one of the few clubs that basically never boo players, and I basically refuse to believe any Liverpool fan would want a player to fail at the club. I think basically any time I see someone kick off about bed-wetting (another term I don't think I've ever heard a Scouser use) that it's someone basically filtering their own anger and disappointment in a more "acceptable" direction.

[JP!]

I think also, not unfairly, people are struggling to read past the admitted hyperbole of the like of 'he's never been good enough' versus what some of the more measured posters are posting which is 'well, he's playing pretty shit at the moment and hasn't done much off the bench, and also where does he actually fit in this team?'.

I've said things like the latter and I don't consider that scapegoating. It's just my view on what's on the field.

I also said he's clearly the 5th best and is a player on the level with Minamino and that I'd sooner take Liverpool's version of Origi at the moment. That's just my view. I genuinely don't think he's a lot better than that. Some obviously do and that's fine, but even that's not scapegoating.  We don't lose cos he puts on Gakpo.  But it's fair to ask what he adds when you watch him fairly consistently of late (Prague aside which was all but a training exercise) do sod all and seem lost for a role in the team.

[StevoHimself]

I think also people are struggling to read past the admitted hyperbole of the like of 'he's never been good enough' versus what some of the more measured posters are posting which is 'well, he's playing pretty shit at the moment and hasn't done much off the bench, and also where does he actually fit in this team?'.

I've said things like the latter and I don't consider that scapegoating. It's just my view on what's on the field.

Yeah, I've said it before, but short of genuine abuse, I'd forgive most things said following a disappointing result. It's not even like anyone on here goes as far to say something as crass as "he's shit." I follow one or two Twitter accounts who basically spend each and every game pissing their pants and having anyone who'll listen believe that the sky is falling. That is annoying. Someone saying they don't think we've been very good in the half-time thread of a game we've not been very good in isn't, but God help the poor bastards who dare raise their heads above the parapet.

[Schmidt]

There's a few on here whose response to basically even the mildest criticism or negativity is to treat it like some massive betrayal of the club's values. It's very strange. I can't tell you how badly I cringe when someone with the energy of a substitute geography teacher says something as dramatic and, let's get it right, as childish as "you don't deserve these players."

I wonder if it's something to do with the idea of what the club and the fans are supposed to be being sort of filtered through the internet and it's black-and-white morality. I've met hundreds of Liverpool fans from the city and elsewhere and the one thing they very rarely are is precious.

With that said, we are one of the few clubs that basically never boo players, and I basically refuse to believe any Liverpool fan would want a player to fail at the club. I think basically any time I see someone kick off about bed-wetting (another term I don't think I've ever heard a Scouser use) that it's someone basically filtering their own anger and disappointment in a more "acceptable" direction.

I think a lot of people spend too much time on Twitter and then come to rawk with a chip on their shoulder after reading all of the bile on there.

RAWK player threads have always contained measured criticism, it's only recently that people have become so intent on shutting down anything they don't agree with. It's also ironic that the people trying to shut down a discussion they have no need to be a part of often complain about disrespect while actively calling everyone who disagrees idiots and pricks.

[StevoHimself]

I think a lot of people spend too much time on Twitter and then come to rawk with a chip on their shoulder after reading all of the bile on there.

RAWK player threads have always contained measured criticism, it's only recently that people have become so intent on shutting down anything they don't agree with. It's also ironic that the people trying to shut down a discussion they have no need to be a part of often complain about disrespect while actively calling everyone who disagrees idiots and pricks.

Yeah, the moral compass is all over the place. It's not okay to criticise the manager, it's not okay to criticise the players, but others fans are fair game. It's something that is very unique to the internet, I think. It's no coincidence that basically the most cloying people on here are almost always the ones dishing out the worst abuse - all in the name of.....I don't know what really.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Yeah, the moral compass is all over the place. It's not okay to criticise the manager, it's not okay to criticise the players, but others fans are fair game. It's something that is very unique to the internet, I think. It's no coincidence that basically the most cloying people on here are almost always the ones dishing out the worst abuse - all in the name of.....I don't know what really.

Name those other fans.

[blert596]

On the 5 v 2 thing the only thing Gakpo does wrong is lay the ball to a player who has no right foot. The ball was perfectly in front of Elliot to carry forward with his right foot and get a shot off.

The fact that Elliot takes it on the outside of his left foot, instead of letting it come across his body, which then took him directly into the only Man U defenders in the same postcode, is what broke down the attack.

I like Gakpo. I dont think hes ultimately suited for how we play at the moment, and he prefers playing out wide on the left, but who knows after Jurgen leaves? Didnt have a great (any) impact on Sunday, but none of the subs really did themselves proud.

[jepovic]

On the 5 v 2 thing the only thing Gakpo does wrong is lay the ball to a player who has no right foot. The ball was perfectly in front of Elliot to carry forward with his right foot and get a shot off.

The fact that Elliot takes it on the outside of his left foot, instead of letting it come across his body, which then took him directly into the only Man U defenders in the same postcode, is what broke down the attack.

I like Gakpo. I dont think hes ultimately suited for how we play at the moment, and he prefers playing out wide on the left, but who knows after Jurgen leaves? Didnt have a great (any) impact on Sunday, but none of the subs really did themselves proud.

Somehow it's Gakpo's fault that Harvey is very one footed. And somehow this situation decides the game.

I have to say, the shit written about Gakpo after the ManU game is some of the most disgusting and stupid I have seen regarding Liverpool.

[RyanBabel19]

How many 5th choice attackers have more G/A in the top leagues?

[Garlic Red]

Somehow it's Gakpo's fault that Harvey is very one footed. And somehow this situation decides the game.

I have to say, the shit written about Gakpo after the ManU game is some of the most disgusting and stupid I have seen regarding Liverpool.

It’s not Gakpo’s fault Harvey is one footed, it is Gakpo’s fault that he decided to pass the ball to Harvey in a pretty tame situation. If Mo, Darwin, Diogo or even Sadio/Bobby have the ball where he has it, that ends up a goal more often than not. He either should’ve played the pass earlier or he should have held on to it longer to engage one of the defenders before laying it off for a first time finish for Harvey/Darwin/whoever is best placed, or simply continued his run and shot himself as he was in a central area. It just felt a bit naive, he’s not the only one to blame in the situation, the runners weren’t great, Elliott’s decision was also poor, but one of our better forwards force those defenders to panic and create a better chance for themselves or their teammates. A few weeks ago I mentioned in a post I think his biggest opportunity to improve is his final ball/decision when driving at defences, he tends to shoot a lot instead of disguising a pass or playing a great killer ball, the 5v2 pretty much typified where I feel he can improve the most. He gets in some fantastic positions and ends up shooting from 20-25 yards when - as a false 9 - he needs to be just as competent at delivering the pass as he does the shot.

I’ve attached a photo for the sake of it. I don’t think passing to Elliott at this point, with that much space between him and defenders, was the right thing to do. He really should’ve engaged one of them, or if he goes to Darwin earlier, Darwin would’ve been looking to return the ball to Gakpo/Harvey/Diaz for an easy, central finish. I can see why a lot of fans are frustrated with him, he’s not the only one in the wrong, but he made the wrong decision with the ball, so rightly gets the most criticism for it.

[Egyptian36]

It’s not Gakpo’s fault Harvey is one footed, it is Gakpo’s fault that he decided to pass the ball to Harvey in a pretty tame situation. If Mo, Darwin, Diogo or even Sadio/Bobby have the ball where he has it, that ends up a goal more often than not. He either should’ve played the pass earlier or he should have held on to it longer to engage one of the defenders before laying it off for a first time finish for Harvey/Darwin/whoever is best placed, or simply continued his run and shot himself as he was in a central area. It just felt a bit naive, he’s not the only one to blame in the situation, the runners weren’t great, Elliott’s decision was also poor, but one of our better forwards force those defenders to panic and create a better chance for themselves or their teammates. A few weeks ago I mentioned in a post I think his biggest opportunity to improve is his final ball/decision when driving at defences, he tends to shoot a lot instead of disguising a pass or playing a great killer ball, the 5v2 pretty much typified where I feel he can improve the most. He gets in some fantastic positions and ends up shooting from 20-25 yards when - as a false 9 - he needs to be just as competent at delivering the pass as he does the shot.

I’ve attached a photo for the sake of it. I don’t think passing to Elliott at this point, with that much space between him and defenders, was the right thing to do. He really should’ve engaged one of them, or if he goes to Darwin earlier, Darwin would’ve been looking to return the ball to Gakpo/Harvey/Diaz for an easy, central finish. I can see why a lot of fans are frustrated with him, he’s not the only one in the wrong, but he made the wrong decision with the ball, so rightly gets the most criticism for it.

Then every one of our attackers should get criticism after every game.

[Sheer Magnetism]

It’s not Gakpo’s fault Harvey is one footed, it is Gakpo’s fault that he decided to pass the ball to Harvey in a pretty tame situation. If Mo, Darwin, Diogo or even Sadio/Bobby have the ball where he has it, that ends up a goal more often than not. He either should’ve played the pass earlier or he should have held on to it longer to engage one of the defenders before laying it off for a first time finish for Harvey/Darwin/whoever is best placed, or simply continued his run and shot himself as he was in a central area. It just felt a bit naive, he’s not the only one to blame in the situation, the runners weren’t great, Elliott’s decision was also poor, but one of our better forwards force those defenders to panic and create a better chance for themselves or their teammates. A few weeks ago I mentioned in a post I think his biggest opportunity to improve is his final ball/decision when driving at defences, he tends to shoot a lot instead of disguising a pass or playing a great killer ball, the 5v2 pretty much typified where I feel he can improve the most. He gets in some fantastic positions and ends up shooting from 20-25 yards when - as a false 9 - he needs to be just as competent at delivering the pass as he does the shot.

I’ve attached a photo for the sake of it. I don’t think passing to Elliott at this point, with that much space between him and defenders, was the right thing to do. He really should’ve engaged one of them, or if he goes to Darwin earlier, Darwin would’ve been looking to return the ball to Gakpo/Harvey/Diaz for an easy, central finish. I can see why a lot of fans are frustrated with him, he’s not the only one in the wrong, but he made the wrong decision with the ball, so rightly gets the most criticism for it.

This sums up why people use the scapegoat tag. Someone else was suggesting Gakpo was at fault for not passing it sooner. He didn't even screw up the chance, yet everything he does is automatically wrong.

[Garlic Red]

Then every one of our attackers should get criticism after every game.

In a perfect world, yeah, maybe, but we don’t live in a perfect world. Players get criticism even after good performances, you’ll regularly read people saying “yeah he did this well, but…”. I think we’re all quite aware that by now most football fans prefer to remember what didn’t go well, particularly in a defeat. This is a sport that’s about moments, the biggest moment swing momentum, changing outcomes and narratives. I criticised him after the Forest game because I felt like he wasted a huge moment in the context of that match. Other players might have wasted other moments, but none bigger than the one he wasted.

I don’t think he quite wasted the 5v2, but it was very average what he did, he carried the ball forwards a few yards, released the ball under no pressure and Elliott was poor with what he did with the ball too. But we’ve all seen those situations before and we all know what good forward play looks like, passing then, without engaging defenders and without sticking one on a plate for a teammate isn’t good enough, there’s nothing wrong with saying it and it’s not scapegoating, it is what it is, he underwhelmed, as did Harvey, we don’t need to dwell on the morality of it that much.

[Garlic Red]

This sums up why people use the scapegoat tag. Someone else was suggesting Gakpo was at fault for not passing it sooner. He didn't even screw up the chance, yet everything he does is automatically wrong.

I think it depends what your preference is to do in those situations. If he passes to Darwin sooner or Elliott/Bradley, it changes the point of the attack, potentially moves the two defenders and could lead to a cut back for a big chance. If he holds onto the ball and forces one of the defenders to commit/close him down, again, it could lead to a lay off nearer to goal for one of his teammates to get a shot away. If he carries the ball closer to goal and has a shot on on the edge of the box, again, it’s probably better than what he ended up doing. Harvey still ballsed it up, I just wanted Cody to take control of that situation and make the right decision. Yes, hindsight’s 20/20, but this is football, everything we say is made with the benefit of hindsight.

[jepovic]

I think it depends what your preference is to do in those situations. If he passes to Darwin sooner or Elliott/Bradley, it changes the point of the attack, potentially moves the two defenders and could lead to a cut back for a big chance. If he holds onto the ball and forces one of the defenders to commit/close him down, again, it could lead to a lay off nearer to goal for one of his teammates to get a shot away. If he carries the ball closer to goal and has a shot on on the edge of the box, again, it’s probably better than what he ended up doing. Harvey still ballsed it up, I just wanted Cody to take control of that situation and make the right decision. Yes, hindsight’s 20/20, but this is football, everything we say is made with the benefit of hindsight.

But you scrutinize a single pass from Gakpo, and from that you try to extrapolate that he's not good enough or whatever.

Why dont you do the same with Harvey? He messed up the same situation one second later, and then for the ManU goal. Just go into the Harvey thread and dump some pictures there...

I dont blame Harvey in particular myself, many players were poor, but I find this focus on Gakpo unfair and its exactly why its scapegoating

[Knight]

I've been someone who has always defended Gakpo since his early days at Liverpool, but today's cameo is poor. Can't argue with that. You'd think with only 15 mins to play he would make more sprints than that but he was just jogging most of the times. Even if the ball doesn't come to you, running a bit more would scare defenders and may force an error.

The reason Gapko is getting more stick about individual moments (perhaps unfairly) is because he’s had a few weeks of poor performances. This is from PEG, by no means a critic of Gapko, from a few pages back. Elliot, on the other hand, has been a gem through this period.