Topic: Our fantastic away support

[Danny Boy]

It's not the same thing mate. Shirt, scarf, fine. Full kit, captains armband, half and half scarves, daft hats, they're embarrassing in my opinion, and if people go to the match like that, I'm glad that others have pulled them up on it. Here's why.

You have to understand that as Liverpool fans, we've always considered ourselves different to other clubs fans out there, in terms of how we support our team, how we conduct ourselves, and taken great pride in our identity. That identity has been at the core of our fanbase for decades. Countless players and managers have talked about our fans being different, being special, going back to Shanks. I don't know if you're new to supporting us, or not from the city, or both, but there's probably an element of that culture that you're not aware of/don't understand, if I was taking a guess based on what you're saying. I think it's fair to say that? That's not an insult by the way, at all. Lots of people plead ignorance on this stuff, that they don't know any better.

I guess it can look like people having a superiority complex, but I don't think it's that, certainly not for me anyway. It's more to do with the culture of the club and it's fanbase, and the things as a whole we've always stood for and identified with, being slowly eroded. People have lived their entire lives going home and away watching us, living and breathing the club. To then have relatively new fans (if I was generalising, I'd say fans since 2005 onward. Not necessarily yourself by the way, I'm talking generally based on previous experiences) telling us it's no big deal, or making out we're being unreasonable, petty, superior, whatever, well, it's pretty annoying to be honest. In short, this stuff matters.

It's like flags. Liverpool fans make their own flags and banners, generally. We don't want, or need, plastic flags leaving under the seats a la Chelsea. If the club starting issuing plastic flags, would that still contribute to the overall look of the Kop, would people be wrong to get upset about it? In my opinion, no they wouldn't, it would be a travesty. You might disagree. But then, if I'd been casually supporting another club, say Dortmund, for a few years, going to the odd game, and i turned up at the ground, stood in the middle of the yellow wall, and someone pulled me up on something, to be honest, as long as they weren't being aggressive, I'd like to think I'd take some notice. After all, it's their club. What right have I got to start preaching to them? Again, I'm not saying that's you, but there's definitely others like that.

I hope that explains some of our feelings a bit better (perhaps just mine!) and you appreciate I'm trying to put another perspective across in a reasonable way. 

Embarrassing - perhaps (if you truly believe so, I'm don't necessarily think so), but not sure why they have to be pulled up on it. Are they any worse than the ragheads who've been on the drink since 6am and verbally abuse other supporters (and worse)? Or do they get away with it just because they have no colours on?

I'm a supporter of over 30 years and a ST holder too. Whilst I may be London born and bred, I do like to think I have an idea of what I'm talking about, and I for one do respect the traditions that make our club great. As I pointed out to the guy behind me on Sunday, for 90 minutes we are all Reds, no matter what, regardless of whether you're from Liverpool/London/whereever.

But it's the attitude of some on here that leads to the apparent divisiveness amongst our fan base. If we are ever to reclaim the atmosphere and support that we all agree is currently lacking, we need to be as one, not denigrate those that happen to have a replica shirt on etc.

[RainbowFlick]

In fairness, that full-kit wanker I've definitely seen at other games, but not in his full-kit attire. He also was happily singing/shouting outside the ground when I passed him. There are more pressing matters.

I'd rather him than a bunch of 'too cool to sing' types.

[butchersdog]

Embarrassing - perhaps (if you truly believe so, I'm don't necessarily think so), but not sure why they have to be pulled up on it. Are they any worse than the ragheads who've been on the drink since 6am and verbally abuse other supporters (and worse)? Or do they get away with it just because they have no colours on?

I'm a supporter of over 30 years and a ST holder too. Whilst I may be London born and bred, I do like to think I have an idea of what I'm talking about, and I for one do respect the traditions that make our club great. As I pointed out to the guy behind me on Sunday, for 90 minutes we are all Reds, no matter what, regardless of whether you're from Liverpool/London/whereever.

But it's the attitude of some on here that leads to the apparent divisiveness amongst our fan base. If we are ever to reclaim the atmosphere and support that we all agree is currently lacking, we need to be as one, not denigrate those that happen to have a replica shirt on etc.

For me, 'rag heads' vs the people we were originally talking about, they're two different issues that would have to be dealt with differently. I don't think anyone on here who's taking issue with the half and half types would have anything good to say about drunks being aggressive towards people at the match.
Obviously that is more serious too. But just because there's other issues in the fan base (that said, I have to say, I've never really seen any trouble at Anfield for a long, long time) doesn't mean this one can't be addressed in a reasonable way. And in any case, that's for the police to deal with, this is an issue that fan groups regularly discuss, and can actively make a difference with.

You seem to be stressing the whole replica shirt thing mate, but wearing a full kit and a replica shirt are two completely different things, and I think you probably recognise that. Thousands upon thousands wear replica shirts every game. It's completely normal.

Whilst I agree that we need to be as one, if people just turn up in borderline fancy dress for a day out, don't know any songs, so don't sing, film the game for huge portions of the match/take selfies, leave early to miss the traffic, I don't really see how accepting that is going to improve the atmosphere. It's been like that a lot recently and the atmosphere is shit, clearly accepting it doesn't work. Educating sections of our fanbase in the traditions of the club and its supporters, and what it is to be a supporter, is the only way forward in my opinion, then our fanbase would truly be as one again, roaring the team on, rather than taking pictures of Ronaldo celebrating scoring against us on an iPad.

I don't doubt your commitment to the cause for one minute mate, but I genuinely don't think a laissez faire attitude toward this stuff will help; with the greatest of respect, I think you're missing the point a bit.

[Aggers-Elbow]

I've had enough. Sunday was embarrassing. English footy is dead.

I fucked off the homes this season becuase of how shite it's got and it's got the same on the aways now too. I'll finish off going to the aways this season and see Gerrard off at Stoke and that's me done until something drastic changes.

[Haemoglobin]

Half-and-half scarves grate because we're going into battle, and you don't raise the enemy's flag with your own. Half-and-half scarves are absolutely acceptable to me in the context of warm, fully-communal events like a game against Celtic to raise money for charity. But a winner-takes-all clash vs Chelsea or the Mancs? Fuck off, mate. Needs to be a cauldron, highly intimidating (totally non-violent) partisan passion. Matchday isn't a nursery, it isn't Disneyland.

Pretty odd really that you would just put "wearing a replica shirt or scarf" as supposedly being seen as negative by many of us, because proudly holding up scarves in our colours above our heads is a massive part of what we love to see in the stands, and a vast sea of red is what we want too (whether that's from wearing actual replica LFC tops or not). Half-and-half stuff is at best a tourist memento of the occasion, a souvenir; you need to put that stuff away during the contest itself. Just standard traditional footy ettiquette, that.

There are indeed far more pressing matters, but that sort of thing is bemoaned because it's symptomatic of the greater ill.

[Billy Elliot]

The last good atmosphere at Wembley was the 89 final.  The 92 final against Sunderland was shit, so was league Cup final against Bolton in 94 and Mancs in 96. 

When we played Everton in the semi I commented that it was the worst atmosphere ever for a Merseyside derby.  It's worse than Anfield.

Sunday didn't surprise me at all.

[rakey_lfc]

I happily wear my replica shirt to games and even scarf if the weathers a bit colder. I have never once had a problem (with our fan base) about me wearing a replica shirt. In fact I see many others do to. I think a sea of red in the away end looks good personally.

That said, I'd never be seen in a full replica kit, even more so at a game.

I think its sadly a reflection of modern society and the modern game, like one said people would rather take photos and put them on facebook then have memories etched in their minds. I'll hold my hand up, I take photos at the game. Usually 1-2 of stadium and warm up and then phone goes away.

What it needs in my opinion is core group just educating people about past traditions. It's the only way we've learnt them. You come in, you sing you put your fucking phone/tablet away. I don't understand why people pay the high prices of tickets to come to a game to just take photos. Sing drink and have a fucking good time because that's what it's all about.

I haven't done many away games admittedly but whenever I have they've been superb. Norwich away with Suarez's hat trick where he lobbed Ruddy from half way line. Great day! Drinks before in a spoons with some Norwich fans where there was singing between fans, great game and atmosphere then back to another pub to carry on drinking and singing.

[Danny Boy]

Whilst I agree that we need to be as one, if people just turn up in borderline fancy dress for a day out, don't know any songs, so don't sing, film the game for huge portions of the match/take selfies, leave early to miss the traffic, I don't really see how accepting that is going to improve the atmosphere. It's been like that a lot recently and the atmosphere is shit, clearly accepting it doesn't work. Educating sections of our fanbase in the traditions of the club and its supporters, and what it is to be a supporter, is the only way forward in my opinion, then our fanbase would truly be as one again, roaring the team on, rather than taking pictures of Ronaldo celebrating scoring against us on an iPad.

Don't disagree with this but my point is that far too many people seem to have a superiority complex over others just because they don't wear colours vs those that do (be it just a shirt or a full kit). Improving the atmosphere is nothing to do with what people wear. How to educate people to sing etc is another matter that I think goes beyond the scope of this thread.

But what I think needs to happen is this clear divide (on here at least) amongst supporters needs to be eradicated, starting with people stopping looking down on others.

[Danny Boy]

Half-and-half scarves grate because we're going into battle, and you don't raise the enemy's flag with your own. Half-and-half scarves are absolutely acceptable to me in the context of warm, fully-communal events like a game against Celtic to raise money for charity. But a winner-takes-all clash vs Chelsea or the Mancs? Fuck off, mate. Needs to be a cauldron, highly intimidating (totally non-violent) partisan passion. Matchday isn't a nursery, it isn't Disneyland.

Pretty odd really that you would just put "wearing a replica shirt or scarf" as supposedly being seen as negative by many of us, because proudly holding up scarves in our colours above our heads is a massive part of what we love to see in the stands, and a vast sea of red is what we want too (whether that's from wearing actual replica LFC tops or not). Half-and-half stuff is at best a tourist memento of the occasion, a souvenir; you need to put that stuff away during the contest itself. Just standard traditional footy ettiquette, that.

There are indeed far more pressing matters, but that sort of thing is bemoaned because it's symptomatic of the greater ill.

Again, I 100% agree that half/half scarves are not right. Makes my blood boil when I see tourists with half-half LFC/United scarves on. But the bigger picture here is that some people clearly have a superiority complex over others and that's not right. I don't think any other club has this issue.

[butchersdog]

Don't disagree with this but my point is that far too many people seem to have a superiority complex over others just because they don't wear colours vs those that do (be it just a shirt or a full kit). Improving the atmosphere is nothing to do with what people wear. How to educate people to sing etc is another matter that I think goes beyond the scope of this thread.

But what I think needs to happen is this clear divide (on here at least) amongst supporters needs to be eradicated, starting with people stopping looking down on others.

Honestly Danny, do you truly believe people get superior over not wearing colours at the match? I've always worn a scarf, I used to wear a shirt too. I'd say the vast, vast majority of our support do one or both. I just don't see the issue, if that's all your referring to.

Sorry, just re read your post again. I stand by my opinion that a full kit is different. People get laughed at in every avenue of life and society, every day. If I went to a wedding in a bright yellow suit like Jim Carey in Dumb and Dumber, ok I'm in a suit, but it's bright yellow, I'd expect people to make a jokey comment/laugh at me, and to a certain extent, judge me. People are judged (in a none bigoted, none illegal way) all the time by their appearance, how they conduct themselves etc, often subconsciously. Ok, it's not always nice to have someone laugh at you, but there is an element of human nature to it at times. Obviously it's within the law, racism etc is it goes without saying a no no. But if I went to Anfield in a full keeper kit with Mignolet on the back, as a grown man, I'd expect jokey comments (not, it's worth pointing out, aggression, that's different). It's not realistic to expect that to stop, and nor would I really want it to, our fan base is known for its wit and humour, not for being a bunch of man children in our full kits with captains armbands on.

[BHB]

If you wear a replica shirt over the age of 16, then you're a little bit weird. That's just my opinion though, as I will never understand why people want to dress up to look like those on the pitch. Very strange behaviour. Kids I can understand, but not adults.

And look around any of our normal away ends (where I think most will agree contains the core of LFC's support) and you will see very, very few people in replica tops.

I've always found it to be the OOTers and the like that wear them,  believing that's what people do at the match, when they couldn't be more wrong.

Anyway - nonsense debate to be having. It's nitshit and doesn't really matter.

[Jake]

If you wear a replica shirt over the age of 16, then you're a little bit weird.

I've always found it to be the OOTers and the like that wear them

How enlightening.

Aways are different. I wouldn't wear a Liverpool shirt to Old Trafford because it might cause some aggro. I'd wear colours to home games, add to what should be a sea of red, instead of a sea of north face jackets.

[OOS]

Me dad and his mates during the 80's never wore colours, and its the same with me and my mates now, i'm 20 (when I go, which isn't often cos am skint).

Maybe its more of a scouse thing, who knows.

[Redman0151]

This thread is so depressing, I can't believe it wasn't locked ages ago.

First time I've posted on here for years but felt I had to.

Firstly, what is the obsession with people who wear a replica shirt or scarf to the game? Does that make them any less of a fan? Particularly infuriates me when people have a go at little kids in a shirt - would they have done any different when they were young? Get off your high horses people, we should all be as one.

On Sunday I was at the front of 511 and I've felt thoroughly pi&&ed off about it since. Firstly, the guy two seats to my left who racially abused Balotelli was probably the final straw. Suffice to say I've reported it to Kick It Out and LFC - absolutely unacceptable.

General atmosphere was pretty poor. First half we all stood which was no problem albeit atmosphere was still flat. Second half, everyone sat down bar the guy directly in front of me. When I tapped him on the shoulder, he gave me a nasty look and basically told me to F-Off. Subsequently found out he'd been drinking since 6am. His two mates meanwhile returned for the 2nd half on about 60 minutes then left the ground as soon as the injury time board went up.

Are these guys any better supporters than someone who wears a shirt or scarf? I think not. Am I any less of a fan because I wanted the one remaining person standing to sit down so my view wasn't obstructed any more? I don't think so.

I, like many other reds, find stuff like this embarrassing:






Don't think anybody has had a go at little kids wearing a shirt or a scarf. Liverpool has a unique fan culture, and in terms of football fashion has always been ahead of the curve in the UK, seeing it get eroded just feels like another example of the club slipping away from us with the commercialisation and homogenisation of the modern game

[Bunter]

How enlightening.

Aways are different. I wouldn't wear a Liverpool shirt to Old Trafford because it might cause some aggro. I'd wear colours to home games, add to what should be a sea of red, instead of a sea of north face jackets.

Its not the 1970's/80's anymore though so people going head to toe in black north face gear thinking thats all gonna be "going off" is funny. Its 90 odd % sanitised family friendly atmospheres at most grounds nowadays as that's an indictment of the 'modern game'.

[niallers]

I wear a different Liverpool jersey to work every day,and I'm 36,what's wrong with that? I'm proud to let everyone know I'm a Liverpool fan and win lose or draw,i wear my colours. Full kit wankers are obviously that,but tops are fine,surely.

[Redman0151]

Sometimes I'd rather be associated with the full kit wankers "wools" or whatever  than the "no colours little scouser" crew who are coked off their faces/pissed up causing all sorts of bother around the ground, on the trains, generally being a aggressive public nuisances and living up (lapping up?) to the stereotypical scouser that everyone outside of the city associates us with, was embarassing at times at the weekend.

What about the coked up wools causing trouble? Or is it just scousers who get too drunk and start fights?

People are way too quick to bring any instances of bad behaviour back to scousers, and it's frustrating that it comes from even our own fanbase, and shows why scousers still feel separated and different from the rest of the country. Despite Liverpool now being the 2nd safest major city in England, even with lots of poverty and inequality, people still fall back the problems onto scousers

[Jake]

I, like many other reds, find stuff like this embarrassing:

Hey come off it mate I don't drag up YOUR Match.com personal pics on here...

The ticket sales for this game were part of the problem.
I understand that loyal attending fans get first pick - that's absolutely fair. But it was impossible to get tickets other than from touts for the likes of me.
I go to around 10 games a season. It involves flights, usually accommodation and costs a fair whack. On top of that, I usually have to score tickets at Anfield at well over face value, or sit in with home fans for away games. I cannot build up ticket credits.

Yet tickets are sold to those who can get them off the club and are subsequently touted. So the supporters who the club wants to go are touting their tickets. Not all obviously, but it's the original source of the touts' tickets.
Meanwhile supporters, like myself, who go to as many games as is affordable and can get tickets for, are left with no choice but to buy off touts, who have sourced their tickets from profiteering supporters who qualify for tickets in the first place.

In all seriousness, you're part of the problem. You're not a victim, you are part of the problem. Anyone who buys off a tout deserves to be mugged off big time.

[Redman0151]

Hey come off it mate I don't drag up YOUR Match.com personal pics on here...


In all seriousness, you're part of the problem. You're not a victim, you are part of the problem. Anyone who buys off a tout deserves to be mugged off big time.

 

[Shanklygates]

This thread has made such depressing reading. Sunday was depressing but not just for the defeat or even the way the team played, but it showed up our "support" for what it is at away games now, and it's getting worse. there are some of us who still sing and try to support the team no matter what (what I have grown up believing you should do) but there are fewer and fewer of us now. Far more seem to go to be entertained. To me, it's our job, what supporters do, or should do.

And then last night I read about regular away match goers of 10-15 years plus, week in week out who have had enough and are stopping it, or thinking about it, and it really upset me. Without them, and they are some of the most vocal, I wouldn't want to be there either. There would be no point.

It scares me when I think about what we have become, and the way things are going. Scares me and depresses me.

Like a train careering off its tracks with no apparent way to stop it. 

Outside Wembley quite early on Sun and the fella on the PA system said something about "the Liverpool congregation" - I kid you now. It know it was a Sunday but we all looked at the loudspeaker (as you do when you can't see the man behind the voice!) and went "WTF?" The saddest part was, that inside, especially in the second half, it was like that, or quieter in fact and so few sang.

Heartbreaking. I feel like a friend has died. (And yes I know what that feels like).

[Giovanni]

I wear a different Liverpool jersey to work every day,and I'm 36,what's wrong with that? I'm proud to let everyone know I'm a Liverpool fan and win lose or draw,i wear my colours. Full kit wankers are obviously that,but tops are fine,surely.

[That Kennedy moment]

You'll get idiots in every fan base but  some of the things I saw Sunday opened my eyes a bit.

Some of the stuff going on was depressing. Can't ever remember coming away from a game feeling that fucked off with some of our own fans.

[Danny Boy]

Some of the stuff going on was depressing. Can't ever remember coming away from a game feeling that fucked off with some of our own fans.

Exactly how I felt too and hence why I posted earlier.

[Billy Elliot]

The problem isn't scousers vs wools.  It's people who give a shit vs people who don't.  I'm scouse born and bred but moved to Essex in my 20s.  Sometime I go the match with fellow scousers, sometimes I go with people who aren't scouse.

Everybody I go with, Scouse or not falls into the category of people who give a shit, if I'm fortunate enough to be amongst them in the ground they'll do their best to sing their hearts out.  However, once in the ground I often feel as I don't belong, because I often end up amongst people who are there for the occasion, or to be entertained rather than to support the team.

When I first started going the people who were there for the occasion or to be entertained would go in the stands.  People who just wanted to support the team would go for the cheaper terracing option where it was easy to group together with like minded others.

Until there's a way of getting the 'supporters' separated from 'the customers' inside the ground the atmosphere wont get any better, but now were going around in circles again.

[kerrilee05]

The problem isn't scousers vs wools.  It's people who give a shit vs people who don't.  I'm scouse born and bred but moved to Essex in my 20s.  Sometime I go the match with fellow scousers, sometimes I go with people who aren't scouse.

Everybody I go with, Scouse or not falls into the category of people who give a shit, if I'm fortunate enough to be amongst them in the ground they'll do their best to sing their hearts out.  However, once in the ground I often feel as I don't belong, because I often end up amongst people who are there for the occasion, or to be entertained rather than to support the team.

When I first started going the people who were there for the occasion or to be entertained would go in the stands.  People who just wanted to support the team would go for the cheaper terracing option where it was easy to group together with like minded others.

Until there's a way of getting the 'supporters' separated from 'the customers' inside the ground the atmosphere wont get any better, but now were going around in circles again.

Spot on.

[Johnny Foreigner]

Exactly how I felt too and hence why I posted earlier.

I do think you’re coming from different angles. I follow two teams; my hometown team (different country) and Liverpool. I travel over quite regularly and has been doing so for quite a few years; I’m a tourist but have learnt to appreciate and respect the city and the regular followers. Don’t expect a prize for that and fully appreciate I’ll always be a guest, but I have had immense pleasure over the years just enjoying myself, the banter and the football as well.

My local team I’ve followed since I was a small lad; home and away with limited success actually. But that is my team; I know the away end; I know the people next to me; their parents and now I see the children coming. I dress how I want and I support the team how I want; 35 years of service gives you that priviledge. I also see when my fellow supporters act stupidly; still they are my fellow supporters from my town; some have a bad day; some act out of order and some are just wankers…

My local team will still be fairly mediocre and we’ll have it our way, but the thing that makes me wonder – is that the next time I’ll be coming to Liverpool; I probably go when there is not a match on..

[paulsheridan08]

the 2 things I found cringey from sunday were the finger foam hands and the fella a few rows behind blowing a vuvuzela  .

[redrockydennis]

Feels like I've wandered into an Everton forum in here - the weird postcode obsession is strong in here. Surely one of the great things about our support is the fact we come from all over the place

[Redman0151]

I know scouse accents from wools when I hear them, im assuming most other people would as well?

Just found it interesting that you focused on the scousers being tanked up, trouble causing, cokeheads as if it's unique to only the local part of our fanbase

[Bunter]

Just found it interesting that you focused on the scousers being tanked up, trouble causing, cokeheads as if it's unique to only the local part of our fanbase

Nope, just what I experienced first hand whilst I was down there, no agenda here I promise!

[TheTeflonJohn]

Don't think anybody has had a go at little kids wearing a shirt or a scarf. Liverpool has a unique fan culture, and in terms of football fashion has always been ahead of the curve in the UK, seeing it get eroded just feels like another example of the club slipping away from us with the commercialisation and homogenisation of the modern game

Indeedy.

Knobheads all around us.

[nfletcher23]

This thread has turned out a bit sour and didn't really need to, at the end of the day we took 33,000 fans who only needed to go to two games which went down to general sale to be there on sunday and out of the 33,000 only around 1/4 (if that) of those probably regularly go away, so most of the people who go down to anfield with their ipads and phones went and did a great job of filling their instagram/twitter/facebook album's of them wearing twat hats and foam fingers, was always going to happen! move on from this before it get's closed and hopefully we're praising our support on saturday!

[Redman0151]

Nope, just what I experienced first hand whilst I was down there, no agenda here I promise!

Fair enough, think I just misinterpreted it

[beardsley4ever]

Honestly Danny, do you truly believe people get superior over not wearing colours at the match?

I do, yeah.  Doesn't bother me much, but it exists.

[Red_Mist]

I hate half & half scarves. With a passion.

(trouble is I've got about 20 of them in a box somewhere!)

[Alf Garnett]

I hate half & half scarves. With a passion.

(trouble is I've got about 20 of them in a box somewhere!)

But none of them are LFC + CFC or LFC v MU are they?

[apassant77]

Personally feel that too many people going to the games no longer immerse themselves in the football and prefer to be pre occupied with what Mr Smith in row z is doing so that they can come and post on a forum to make themselves sound like a superfan.

[Redman0151]

Personally feel that too many people going to the games no longer immerse themselves in the football and prefer to be pre occupied with what Mr Smith in row z is doing so that they can come and post on a forum to make themselves sound like a superfan.

So you're suggesting people go to the game after paying £50+ and spend their time trying to find whoppers to post on RAWK about rather than watching the game? Somehow I doubt it mate

[apassant77]

Norwich away last season people were taking pictures of people sat down reading magazines and on ipads so they could post on here. Surely thats not watching the game

[John C]

I was in 117 yesterday and didn't think it was that bad...am I the only one?

I was in 115, just a few yards from 117 and I thought it was disappointing by me. A few lads behind me tried to get songs going but it just didn't flow forward and around.
There was a fantastic, collective 'Fields of Anfield Rd' in our entire end once and that was it.
Such a shame on such an occasion.

Nobody by me sat down at all though during the game - not once.