Topic: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics (*)

[rawcusk8]

Again with the late subs? The lack of Gini is baffling. As others have touched on it's painfully obvious we have no plan b, the blue print to beat us is there for all to see. 15 corners and nothing to show for it, Hull scored from their single corner. Our squad is pathetic, reliant on Sturridge who is a shell of a player and youngsters that will potentially be top players one day but right now they lack consistency. The defence has been woeful for ages, how nobody has managed to fix it is beyond me. Only positive I can take from today is that after the weekend we could potentially be 4 points off second and looking at the bigger picture is not all that bad. As for things right now for the life of me I have no idea how this will change, we look out of ideas from top to bottom and we have the added bonus of a keeper and defence that at times belong in the lower leagues. The vultures will begin to cirlce around Klopp which is ridiculous but we know how the press here works. Sigh

[theMilkman]

Why not change like Conte did so well.

3-4-3

don't think we have the defensive personnel for it. who would you play where?

[Adeemo]

Why not bring Ojo in against these teams, tell him to hug the left touchline and play Coutinho instead of Can? You've instantly stretched the opposition defence and made sure that your best player sees a lot of the ball. Against these kind of teams Phil ends up drifting into midfield anyway, just start him there and give him two wide players to supply.

[Binomial]

I don't understand why we don't let other teams have the possession for a change and press teams high up, win the ball back & build attacks?

Chelsea are a perfect example....they average <50% possession.

We've been a counter pressing counter attacking team for years, why is Klopp trying to change that? The players are clearly not comfortable playing that way.

[killer-heels]

I don't understand why we don't let other teams have the possession for a change and press teams high up, win the ball back & build attacks?

Chelsea are a perfect example....they average <50% possession.

Because they have a solid defence, keeper and plenty of protection. We would let in a shit load of goals playing the way they do.

[Shepnois]

We've gone from Klopp's Dortmund team of 11/12 to their team of 14/15 in the same season. The performances in 2017 have been horrendous. Opposition teams know they can just let us have the ball all day, we'll huff and puff but we are struggling for goals. The opposition knows our defence or lack of one will present then with a few good chances on the break or from set plays and you're guaranteed to score 1 or 2. I persume Klopp has finally realised his team is a lot weaker then what our earlier season form had shown. We've got a massive fight on our hands to finish in the top 4 now, if this slump continues for another few weeks you can forget about it.

[theMilkman]

In his first season he used the diamond a few times. I'd like to see us try that for a few games. Sturridge and Mane upfront, Firmino behind.

(No clue who)
Clyne Matip Lovren Milner
Hendo
Lallana Coutinho
Firmino
Sturridge Mane

Can't be worse than we've been recently.

i'd drop firmino for wijnaldum for that formation.

[Binomial]

Because they have a solid defence, keeper and plenty of protection. We would let in a shit load of goals playing the way they do.

I think the City performance shows we can defend, we just need to play the right way....

[JackWard33]

don't think we have the defensive personnel for it. who would you play where?

it's not going to happen ... but just for fun..... Can-Matip-Lovren is a workable back 3

[Samie]

Kloppo cleared out a lot of the deadwood last summer. He's going to do it again and I can't wait. Some useless fuckers who have one good game in 5 isn't good enough for Liverpool Football Club or who have outstayed their welcome in the squad over the last few years.

[clinical]

£40m probably would have got you Brandt in Jan.

£40m won't in summer. Because he won't want to come.

If he had money available to spend then this is Klopps stupidity that he didn't sign anyone.

Kloppo cleared out a lot of the deadwood last summer. He's going to do it again and I can't wait. Some useless fuckers who have one good game in 5 isn't good enough for Liverpool Football Club or who have outstayed their welcome in the squad over the last few years.

Will he?  He said he doesn't want to bring in that many players again. So I doubt we will see another clear out.

[007.lankyguy]

I don't understand why we don't let other teams have the possession for a change and press teams high up, win the ball back & build attacks?

Chelsea are a perfect example....they average <50% possession.

We've been a counter pressing counter attacking team for years, why is Klopp trying to change that? The players are clearly not comfortable playing that way.

We didn't let the opponents have the ball in the earlier part of the season and we were absolutely fine then so it's not that the ability isn't there.

In terms of changing it up I agree with you in an ideal world - when you're struggling to break down a low block, sitting off a little more to open up space behind the opponent's defence can be a good idea. What I don't know is whether Klopp has enough faith in our defence to actually try it. It's probably worth a go given results but I understand why he'd be reluctant.

[theMilkman]

it's not going to happen ... but just for fun..... Can-Matip-Lovren is a workable back 3

I'd rather not see Can anywhere near the team for a while and if Matip gets injured, we would replace him with Klavan? There's just not enough quality on the ball there don't you think?

[Adeemo]

£40m probably would have got you Brandt in Jan.

£40m won't in summer. Because he won't want to come.

If he had money available to spend then this is Klopps stupidity that he didn't sign anyone.

Genuine question, how much money does qualifying for the Champions League generate? Because if we really do intend to sign him in the summer, why not pay an extra £10-15m in January in order to try and guarantee CL footie?

[trimore]

I think the City performance shows we can defend, we just need to play the right way....

Because playing like that means cutting out mistakes and being ruthless with our finishing. We saw that during better times when we had Gerrard with Houllier and to a lesser extent Rafa. The defensive mistakes over a whole season were impossible to iron out and our offence would still miss too many of the fewer chances we created. While United, Arsenal and the early Mourinho teams would outscore us.

[clinical]

don't think we have the defensive personnel for it. who would you play where?

     Gomez Lovren Matip
Clyne. Hendo. Gini    Milner
     Mane Firmino Coutinho

[bodhisattva]

He is getting everything wrong at the moment, there really is no plan b. We have played the exact same way every week that this slump has gone on. Once again the only answer today was to chuck on Origi and Sturridge for midfielders and hope something happened. We need to find a way past these park the bus teams otherwise we are basically just the same team as the one we ended with under Rodgers; capable of brilliance, capable of putting runs together but also when the going gets tough a complete inability to find a way to dig ourselves out.

In fact that shouldnt come as a surprise because we are basically the same team. We are relying largely on the same set of players who crumbled under brendan, were shit all last season other than the europa run which we ballsed up from a winning position in Basel; the manager stood on the touchline doing nothing other than trying to gee the crowd up and the players looking like rabbits in headlights. A familiar sight. We need multiple signings this summer and they need to be of a high calibre or it will be more of the same.

There were a couple of tactical changes today that I liked and we should maybe persist with...

1. Coutinho was played deeper in midfield and maybe this is the best place for him to dictate things?
2. Moreno was brought on and while he's nowhere near good enough long term, I do think for the balance of the team he needs to play
because he's the only left footed player we have and with teams giving us the space out wide we need to use it better.

I know a few have talked about a back 3 to help with the problems on the counter attack and maybe that is a change Klopp can make to not only change our fortunes
but to also give the opposition something different to think about.

......................Mignolet...............................

.........Clyne.......Matip.........Lovren......

Milner...........Henderson.................Moreno

..............Lallana...........Coutinho............

..................Mane....Firmino.....................

Something like that maybe with the option to change the midfield by putting Wijnaldum or Can in there if you wanted to be a bit more defensive.

[JackWard33]

I'd rather not see Can anywhere near the team for a while and if Matip gets injured, we would replace him with Klavan? There's just not enough quality on the ball there don't you think?

I wouldn't play it but with coaching I do think Can can play there - really just fucking around with formations.

I'd try a diamond.... or something?!?!?!

[clinical]

Genuine question, how much money does qualifying for the Champions League generate? Because if we really do intend to sign him in the summer, why not pay an extra £10-15m in January in order to try and guarantee CL footie?

Is my point. The club are clueless. I just pray whoever replaces ayres knows about football

[Samie]

£40m probably would have got you Brandt in Jan.

£40m won't in summer. Because he won't want to come.

If he had money available to spend then this is Klopps stupidity that he didn't sign anyone.

Will he?  He said he doesn't want to bring in that many players again. So I doubt we will see another clear out.

What he say's know and what he does in the summer will be different I suspect.  He ain't going to call some of these useless fuckers out now in the middle of the season.

[Studgotelli]

i'd drop firmino for wijnaldum for that formation.

Could be argued. Firmino has been cack since Coutinho injury

[Adeemo]

Is my point. The club are clueless. I just pray whoever replaces ayres knows about football

It's a classic case of having to spend money to make money but FSG don't seem willing or bothered.

[rscanderlech]

Could be argued. Firmino has been cack since Coutinho injury

Firmino is another one that fans love to overrate. He would have been rotation level in 2008/2009. Rotated with the likes of Kuyt and Benayoun. And that was the last time we were in the CL knockouts and competing for more than one thing.

In 13/14 he probably would have been on the bench as well, clearly inferior to S-S and lacking the pace of sterling to make the front 3.

[theMilkman]

I wouldn't play it but with coaching I do think Can can play there - really just fucking around with formations.

I'd try a diamond.... or something?!?!?!

fair enough. we really do need to try something else, or at least have something we can turn to...

personally i'd go 4411

Karius
Clyne Matip Lovren Moreno
   Henderson Wijnaldum
Mane                          Coutinho
Lallana
        Sturridge

it's debatable how much of that is just a personnel change from what we're doing right now... Moreno would give us more width and pace

[clinical]

It's a classic case of having to spend money to make money but FSG don't seem willing or bothered.

Why would they, the money spent would be recouped. But to reduce risk of never getting it back you simply don't spend it.

I'm sick of them mate. FSG need to go.

[Iloveyoumamadou]

Passing map today (via 11tegen11 on Twitter)



A few things you can gleam from that:

1) Can and Henderson taking up each other's space without offering enough on the ball generally to justify it.

2) Milner is the centre of the team's play in the middle and final third, which is very concerning.

3) Connection from left to right is all coming from deep, rather than through midfield and the front three. Very easy for the opposition to shift over to their right, leave Clyne isolated on the other side and know that Clyne has to receive the ball either through running onto a long switch, or receiving into feet from behind him (which only encourages a negative/backwards first touch). Also harder to get Mane properly involved given that without overloads on that side, he's not isolating defenders 1v1 as much and is rarely receiving the ball from anyone other than Clyne, which allows opposition time to shift across and deal with him.

4) Very little output from Lallana, which is ultra concerning given his position.

Point number 1 was the major problem today. With Wijnaldum he'd have played further ahead of Henderson and Lallana would've been deeper and freer as a result. Can and Henderson never works and this perfectly shows why.

[clinical]

Almost like finishing 8th, making a profit in transfer window then expecting to challenge is impossible

Who would have thought that.

[pyroparty]

Almost like finishing 8th, making a profit in transfer window then expecting to challenge is impossible

Who would have thought that.

Are you Rashid?

[clinical]

Are you Rashid?

No don't play cricket mate

[Binomial]

No don't play cricket mate

lol.

[andy07]

Form against the top 11 teams.

Pld 12  W 7 D 5 L 0 Pts 26

Form against the bottom 9 teams.

Pld 13  W 6  D 2 L 4 Pts 20

Explanations?

Bad luck?   Good luck and flukes by the opposition?   Fatigue?   Occasional mistakes by our players?   Bad refereeing?  Poor tactics?

Try shite mental attitude.   You can read occasional lapses into the odd defeat but consistent underperforming can be down to one thing only.  Unless we have a completely average set of players and Klopp is a game raiser against better opposition?

[Gnurglan]

Passing map today (via 11tegen11 on Twitter)



A few things you can gleam from that:

1) Can and Henderson taking up each other's space without offering enough on the ball generally to justify it.

2) Milner is the centre of the team's play in the middle and final third, which is very concerning.

3) Connection from left to right is all coming from deep, rather than through midfield and the front three. Very easy for the opposition to shift over to their right, leave Clyne isolated on the other side and know that Clyne has to receive the ball either through running onto a long switch, or receiving into feet from behind him (which only encourages a negative/backwards first touch). Also harder to get Mane properly involved given that without overloads on that side, he's not isolating defenders 1v1 as much and is rarely receiving the ball from anyone other than Clyne, which allows opposition time to shift across and deal with him.

4) Very little output from Lallana, which is ultra concerning given his position.

Cheers. Good explanation.
If we want things to happen, we need to get Mane and Lallana involved. Certainly if Coutinho isn't at his best.

[Zlen]

We are not playing Europe and we have apparently completely run out of steam (physically) by early January.
How are we supposed to cope if we have to play Europa or Champions League?

Can Klopp switch something around so we don't burn out like this again or is it full throttle ahead until the horse is dead?

[RedForeverTT]

We are not playing Europe and we have apparently completely run out of steam (physically) by early January.
How are we supposed to cope if we have to play Europa or Champions League?

Can Klopp switch something around so we don't burn out like this again or is it full throttle ahead until the horse is dead?

No we won't and we can't cope with this squad and playing full throttle football.

I cannot imagine our squad rotation will involve Stewart and Lucas starting League games or European games.

[Saul Goodman]

This is a dirty topic that seems like an elephant in the room that no one wants to discuss due to the nature of what the manager demands being well known so it feels like an attack on him to talk about it but we look fucking wrecked all over the pitch.

I expect that with current sports science people and technology around the game to analyse this stuff that the limitations of what the players can and can't do is quite an exact science in this day and age. I wonder though how much of the focus if any on recovery is around the cumulative effect of playing in such a high intensity, focused, demanding and organised way and how that takes its toll in all departments especially with mental fatigue. I think Jurgen requires his players to be very switched on during games. That kind of focus I think you can clearly see just isn't at the levels it was earlier in the season all over the pitch. They are struggling to make simple good decisions never mind the intricacies of what the manager is demanding. Some of the players have burnout signs hanging around their necks you can see it so badly in them.

There are all sorts of excuses around the lack of a squad to be able to sustain a challenge which I have certain sympathy around but it certainly can't be completely contained within that excuse. I have no understanding of how someone thinks you can ask a team to play in a certain manner without proper use of a squad, substitutions, rotation, game management. They feel like such basic things that form the basis of playing in such a high intense pressing manner than I can't get my head around how it was ever felt this was sustainable.

I think back to those games when we were battering teams with ample opportunity to rest players with substitutions but instead the manager encouraged often the same 11 to keep the foot on the throat flat to the board right till the final whistle.

[andy07]

Fine margins define seasons.  Have we ever recovered from this?  Had this been in and it had been 4-1 and we had won and we were clear top and......Really feel this was the day that we blew it psychologically, we have never really recovered.

[RedForeverTT]

Given the hindsight, maybe some squad rotation early in the season should help. But given our early season loss to Burnley showed that we were still shaky, maybe that hasn't given Klopp a lot of confidence to change too much. And then the perfect storm brewed, firstly with the loss of Coutinho to the friggin outstretched leg of Chelsea player in the Sunderland match. Then followed by Henderson's heel problem and finally compounded with the loss of Mane for a month.

[Zlen]

Given the hindsight, maybe some squad rotation early in the season should help. But given our early season loss to Burnley showed that we were still shaky, maybe that hasn't given Klopp a lot of confidence to change too much. And then the perfect storm brewed, firstly with the loss of Coutinho to the friggin outstretched leg of Chelsea player in the Sunderland match. Then followed by Henderson's heel problem and finally compounded with the loss of Mane for a month.

Not really buying the perfect storm theory.
We need to be prepared for things like this, looking at personnel, how to rotate the squad, how to adapt to new situations. We just pretty much plowed on regardless - and ended up reaping the rewards. Problems like those we faced can be predicted by anyone and problems like those need to be overcome by any team aspiring for anything more the infamous 'on par'. We fucked up, we didn't really face anything outlandish - we just fucked up and failed.

[trimore]

This is a dirty topic that seems like an elephant in the room that no one wants to discuss due to the nature of what the manager demands being well known so it feels like an attack on him to talk about it but we look fucking wrecked all over the pitch.

There are all sorts of excuses around the lack of a squad to be able to sustain a challenge which I have certain sympathy around but it certainly can't be completely contained within that excuse. I have no understanding of how someone thinks you can ask a team to play in a certain manner without proper use of a squad, substitutions, rotation, game management. They feel like such basic things that form the basis of playing in such a high intense pressing manner than I can't get my head around how it was ever felt this was sustainable.

Because running around is only half of our strategy. The other half consists of a tonne of short passes and circulation to more the defence around plus quick passes at pace during counters to open up defences. That kind of passing rythm takes real game time to develop and it is easier if the same players practise together and play together to develop those patterns. 

[JackWard33]

Because running around is only half of our strategy. The other half consists of a tonne of short passes and circulation to more the defence around plus quick passes at pace during counters to open up defences. That kind of passing rythm takes real game time to develop and it is easier if the same players practise together and play together to develop those patterns. 

We need a new strategy then.
You can't run more than anyone in the league, never rotate, rarely use subs and expect to be playing at the same level after a congested fixture schedule as you did in September
It's a totally incongruent strategy