Author Topic: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics (*)  (Read 926838 times)

Offline jillcwhomever

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #240 on: January 28, 2017, 05:50:40 pm »
He's not even had a full season in charge yet.

This has got to be the earliest that "fans" have turned on a manager yet.  :o
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Offline ANFIELDGATES

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #241 on: January 28, 2017, 05:51:28 pm »
i just dont get why the players didnt ensure that we stayed wide on both sides of pitch and in both cup games,very frustrating to be honest and i just dont see how it will improve by tues nights game vrs the Chelsea.Having said that,how frustrating will it be if we do turn chelsea over!!!Obviously we will be ecstatic but it will be a case of what if!We need to get something out of the game and i believe we will but the same old failings will become evident if we do win...beat the top sides but cant get up for the so called lesser teams.

Offline Souness1

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #242 on: January 28, 2017, 05:53:35 pm »
When do we start to question the job he's doing?

We are going through a patch that Spurs, City and United have all gone through this season. Spurs had 1 win in 8, City and United had 2 wins in 11 earlier in the season. It was naive to assume we wouldnt struggle at some point either. The worst thing that happened to us was being top in November, expectations were devoid from then on from any rationality. Top 4 was always the aim for most of the fan base. We can start to question the manager when he is doing a bad job, 8 games shouldn't alter how far we have come since he took over.

Offline Zaffarious

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #243 on: January 28, 2017, 05:59:50 pm »
When do we start to question the job he's doing?



In about 2 years time. That's my honest answer. That has given him a full season to assess the team , 2 more transfer windows to fix the problems.  World class managers deserve time to work.

Offline harryc

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #244 on: January 28, 2017, 06:01:35 pm »
When do we start to question the job he's doing?

WTF its starting already, I really do despair..........these lot deserve the Owl back.

Offline Fiasco

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #245 on: January 28, 2017, 06:01:56 pm »
When do we start to question the job he's doing?

Christ on a unicycle smoking a bong. We don't. It's not even in the question.


In my view he's got 2-3 years to have a full crack at things. Full backing. Full support. That's what drives the club forward, not wanting a swanky new guy to come in when we're going through a bad run.

Offline ANFIELDGATES

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #246 on: January 28, 2017, 06:03:50 pm »
This has got to be the earliest that "fans" have turned on a manager yet.  :o
frustration will always lead to hysterics!!Understandable in some ways but not looking for the managers head,its like deja vu for us every season,a bit of hope,then real signs of us clicking into gear followed by a few set backs and suddenly the teams mentality looks very fragile.As i said earlier,klopp needs to look at tweaking the system a bit and if that means going to a 4-1-4-1with sturridge up top then so be it but you can bet chelsea are going to let us have all the ball tues night and suck us into over committing men forward and hit us on the counter,the fans ill be in a fervour as its chelsea and the team will go gung ho and lose all sense of direction and tactics will go out the window.I hope im wrong but we need someone out there with a calm head and a leader who will take control of the game and stick to the team game plan,i just dont see it in hendo atm

Offline Binomial

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #247 on: January 28, 2017, 06:07:50 pm »
When do we start to question the job he's doing?

We don't...FSG do.
"He's leaving because he's Guardiola's favourite. If it's anyone's fault, it's mine. I can't make myself shorter and learn Spanish." - Klopp on Gotze to Bayern

Offline lfc79

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #248 on: January 28, 2017, 06:10:20 pm »
I think the frustrating thing is having seen so many games against packed defences and we have not changed to stretch teams wide. Was ojo injured today?

Offline JG6

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #249 on: January 28, 2017, 06:12:49 pm »
Jesus chill out, I never even insinuated I want him gone etc etc. I just said when do we question him, just because he's Jurgen Klopp it doesn't mean we can't question what he's doing. We've destroyed a season in 7 days, if we don't ask some questions of the manager after it then when do you? I love him, and believe in him, but I we can't just keep blaming the players when it goes wrong and giving Klopp the credit when it goes well.

Rather than just accepting what's happened this month because of what he did at Dortmund are we not within our rights to at least question the decisions he has made recently?

Offline sms1986

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #250 on: January 28, 2017, 06:16:39 pm »
Jesus chill out, I never even insinuated I want him gone etc etc. I just said when do we question him, just because he's Jurgen Klopp it doesn't mean we can't question what he's doing.

It's not because he's Klopp, it's because he's barely been here long enough to be questioned. If he was as shit as Hodgson, sure, but he's a million times better at his job than the owl could ever hope to be.

Quote
We've destroyed a season in 7 days

Still have a slim chance of the title, and a good chance of top four.

Quote
If we don't ask some questions of the manager after it then when do you? I love him, and believe in him, but I we can't just keep blaming the players when it goes wrong and giving Klopp the credit when it goes well.

I would say that things out of his control, such as fixture congestion, injuries and Mane being absent have not helped him or the team.

Offline Binomial

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #251 on: January 28, 2017, 06:30:22 pm »
Jesus chill out, I never even insinuated I want him gone etc etc. I just said when do we question him, just because he's Jurgen Klopp it doesn't mean we can't question what he's doing. We've destroyed a season in 7 days, if we don't ask some questions of the manager after it then when do you? I love him, and believe in him, but I we can't just keep blaming the players when it goes wrong and giving Klopp the credit when it goes well.

Rather than just accepting what's happened this month because of what he did at Dortmund are we not within our rights to at least question the decisions he has made recently?

That's some record.
"He's leaving because he's Guardiola's favourite. If it's anyone's fault, it's mine. I can't make myself shorter and learn Spanish." - Klopp on Gotze to Bayern

Offline ToneLa

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #252 on: January 28, 2017, 06:31:02 pm »
Aaron.... That's all transfer opinions and not, precisely, about tactics on the pitch.

I for one won't be addressing it directly as it's offtopic IMO.

Offline Davidbowie

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #253 on: January 28, 2017, 06:37:19 pm »
It's pretty clear to me that what Liverpool lack a big, big way are players with PACE.

Most sides have 3 or 4 pacey players, usually wingers, but often fullbacks as well. I think of Hazard, Pedro, Willian and Victor Moses at Chelsea for example or Oxlade Chamberlain, Sanchez, Walcott and Bellerin at Arsenal. All of those have blistering pace and can run in behind.

You look at our squad and you could argue that Sadio Mane is the ONLY player in the entire squad that could be described as having genuine pace. And that is just not enough.

Opposition teams seem to have figured us out, that without pace in behind, our attacking midfielders Coutinho, Firmino and Lallana can only play with the ball at their feet and won't make runs. Sturridge doesn't have that ability anymore either and Origi isn't smart enough.

So if you defend deep with 2 lines of 4, Liverpool are an easy team to play against because without Mane there is not a single player who is going to get behind you. As we have seen recently, every team we play is doing the same thing and it keeps working.

We really, really, really need to sign players with genuine pace. Personally, I would have given Markovic a run whilst Mane is away because surely he can't do any worse a job than what we're seeing? But of course he was shipped off to Hull and until Mane comes back I can't see the trend changing.
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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #254 on: January 28, 2017, 06:53:37 pm »
Anyone reckon we need a real DM yet or we still in denial? Hendo has done well. But when he's not on top form or slightly injured we struggle.
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Offline Suareznumber7

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #255 on: January 28, 2017, 06:59:01 pm »
When do we start to question the job he's doing?

We're 2 points off of 2nd place in the league.  What the fuck is wrong with you?

Offline Binomial

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #256 on: January 28, 2017, 07:02:05 pm »
We're 2 points off of 2nd place in the league.  What the fuck is wrong with you?

And we're still in 2 cup competi....Oh no wait,

that was last week, sorry.

You're right, I beg your pardon!

Goodness sakes why can't we all be more positive.
"He's leaving because he's Guardiola's favourite. If it's anyone's fault, it's mine. I can't make myself shorter and learn Spanish." - Klopp on Gotze to Bayern

Offline nittinivala

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #257 on: January 28, 2017, 07:09:04 pm »
It's pretty clear to me that what Liverpool lack a big, big way are players with PACE.

Most sides have 3 or 4 pacey players, usually wingers, but often fullbacks as well. I think of Hazard, Pedro, Willian and Victor Moses at Chelsea for example or Oxlade Chamberlain, Sanchez, Walcott and Bellerin at Arsenal. All of those have blistering pace and can run in behind.

You look at our squad and you could argue that Sadio Mane is the ONLY player in the entire squad that could be described as having genuine pace. And that is just not enough.

Opposition teams seem to have figured us out, that without pace in behind, our attacking midfielders Coutinho, Firmino and Lallana can only play with the ball at their feet and won't make runs. Sturridge doesn't have that ability anymore either and Origi isn't smart enough.

So if you defend deep with 2 lines of 4, Liverpool are an easy team to play against because without Mane there is not a single player who is going to get behind you. As we have seen recently, every team we play is doing the same thing and it keeps working.

We really, really, really need to sign players with genuine pace. Personally, I would have given Markovic a run whilst Mane is away because surely he can't do any worse a job than what we're seeing? But of course he was shipped off to Hull and until Mane comes back I can't see the trend changing.

Spot on.

Offline Upinsmoke

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #258 on: January 28, 2017, 07:16:38 pm »
The only time we looked dangerous is when Woodburn was in a bit of space.

I had a pretty good view today in the lower main just to the right of the halfway line, shit atmosphere and lots of moaning but probably the best view in regards to seeing what you don't see on the tele.

Say what you want about Sturridge's pace but he constantly moves and tries to create space for someone to pass to him, no fucker does.

Wijnaldum is starting to get highly irritating, he does this strange thing when he receives the ball where he goes to pass it, hesitates and then passes it where he would of anyway. There's literally no point to it. He doesn't go forward with the ball, Ejaria looked up to see what's on more than him.

We have a massive issue with creative players or a lack of them against teams who sit deep. Embarrassed to say besides Coutinho the only other players who attempt to get there head up is Woodburn and Ejaria, I mean what the fuck is all that about.

You can question Klopp's tactics against these deeper teams but we simply do not have the individuals available to break them down. Massive oversight by Klopp and the rest of the management. I think Klopp addressed the situation with Mane but only to some extent, we need more though.

Our first 11 is perfect against the more attacking teams, but we don't have the players to beat a more defensive team, that's unquestionable now.

Offline MPowerYNWA

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #259 on: January 28, 2017, 07:19:47 pm »
We over commit when attacking -  a proper holding defensive midfielder would help, or perhaps switching to 3 centre backs. It's naive football otherwise.

I seem to recall manure went through this phase when Joe Royal was at Oldham...everyone was saying to stop manure you just stop their wingers...it's all part of the evolution of a team to learn how to break teams down.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2017, 07:21:32 pm by MPowerYNWA »

Offline WillG.LFC

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #260 on: January 28, 2017, 07:20:02 pm »
Do wonder whether its time for something to surprise chelsea, either matching them with 3 at the back to give our cbs more cover or to play with 3 up top and wide at all time to keep their wing backs defending or to force their cbs wider creating more space in the middle. Might be worth a gamble as we can't seem to shake this form

Offline MPowerYNWA

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #261 on: January 28, 2017, 07:28:55 pm »
It's pretty clear to me that what Liverpool lack a big, big way are players with PACE.

Most sides have 3 or 4 pacey players, usually wingers, but often fullbacks as well. I think of Hazard, Pedro, Willian and Victor Moses at Chelsea for example or Oxlade Chamberlain, Sanchez, Walcott and Bellerin at Arsenal. All of those have blistering pace and can run in behind.

You look at our squad and you could argue that Sadio Mane is the ONLY player in the entire squad that could be described as having genuine pace. And that is just not enough.

Opposition teams seem to have figured us out, that without pace in behind, our attacking midfielders Coutinho, Firmino and Lallana can only play with the ball at their feet and won't make runs. Sturridge doesn't have that ability anymore either and Origi isn't smart enough.

So if you defend deep with 2 lines of 4, Liverpool are an easy team to play against because without Mane there is not a single player who is going to get behind you. As we have seen recently, every team we play is doing the same thing and it keeps working.

We really, really, really need to sign players with genuine pace. Personally, I would have given Markovic a run whilst Mane is away because surely he can't do any worse a job than what we're seeing? But of course he was shipped off to Hull and until Mane comes back I can't see the trend changing.

I understand the point you're making which is partly valid - but pace very rarely breaks down a team that sits deep and plays with 2 banks of four...

Offline Upinsmoke

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #262 on: January 28, 2017, 07:29:04 pm »
We over commit when attacking -  a proper holding defensive midfielder would help, or perhaps switching to 3 centre backs. It's naive football otherwise.

I seem to recall manure went through this phase when Joe Royal was at Oldham...everyone was saying to stop manure you just stop their wingers...it's all part of the evolution of a team to learn how to break teams down.

We do over commit your spot on but we overcommit Imo because we aren't creating so we end up pushing higher and higher, half the time the ball finds its way to Gomez or Matip from Henderson or Lucas and the centre backs are litterally halfway inside the opposition half and ultimately they are the ones who make a pass because the others around them aren't, it's infuriating to watch.

Offline El Lobo

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #263 on: January 28, 2017, 07:30:10 pm »
I understand the point you're making which is partly valid - but pace very rarely breaks down a team that sits deep and plays with 2 banks of four...

It does when you can just run past players.

How many goals did we get with Mane taking players on in the box and cutting back for others?
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

Offline WillG.LFC

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #264 on: January 28, 2017, 07:35:14 pm »
Pace is always nice but when teams defend deep we need quick interconnecting play and movement that we've had with coutinho lallana mane firmino etc. Lallana, coutinho and firmino aren't the quickest but can do it. So pace is a bonus but not a necessity

Offline Aceldama

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #265 on: January 28, 2017, 07:39:01 pm »
Moreno offers width and pace but none of our attacks went through him. As commentators incessantly points out: he's an attacking full back how isn't great at defending. We didn't try and ultilise his forward instincts at all. In the first half we kept going down the right flank and having Connor Randall nullify the play instead.

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #266 on: January 28, 2017, 07:39:59 pm »
Moreno offers width and pace but none of our attacks went through him. As commentators incessantly points out: he's an attacking full back how isn't great at defending. We didn't try and ultilise his forward instincts at all. In the first half we kept going down the right flank and having Connor Randall nullify the play instead.

Maybe because he kept coming inside?
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

Offline Upinsmoke

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #267 on: January 28, 2017, 07:41:28 pm »
Moreno offers width and pace but none of our attacks went through him. As commentators incessantly points out: he's an attacking full back how isn't great at defending. We didn't try and ultilise his forward instincts at all. In the first half we kept going down the right flank and having Connor Randall nullify the play instead.

A few attacks came from him or that was the plan, he's very one footed so they kept showing him in on his right to the most uncreative players on the pitch, worked a treat

Offline Binomial

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #268 on: January 28, 2017, 07:44:09 pm »
Moreno offers width and pace but none of our attacks went through him. As commentators incessantly points out: he's an attacking full back how isn't great at defending. We didn't try and ultilise his forward instincts at all. In the first half we kept going down the right flank and having Connor Randall nullify the play instead.

Maybe because he's fucking shite & all the players know it.
"He's leaving because he's Guardiola's favourite. If it's anyone's fault, it's mine. I can't make myself shorter and learn Spanish." - Klopp on Gotze to Bayern

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #269 on: January 28, 2017, 07:44:23 pm »
Pace is always nice but when teams defend deep we need quick interconnecting play and movement that we've had with coutinho lallana mane firmino etc. Lallana, coutinho and firmino aren't the quickest but can do it. So pace is a bonus but not a necessity

The three teams above us all have one thing when it comes to breaking down teams that park the bus whether it's Costa, Kane or Giroud they have someone who will hurt you if you try and defend your six yard box.

I love Klopp but his 4-3-3 reminds me of when Rafa asked McPartland, Segura and Borrell to come up with the blueprint for the future they came up with 4-3-3 but Rafa insisted that to be really effective in this League it had to be 4-2-3-1 with a big man upfront.

Imagine a Torres in his pomp in this side. It would alleviate the problems when the keeper kicks long and we lose 20 out of 24 against City and 18 out of 27 whilst giving us an added dimension against park the bus teams.
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Offline Aceldama

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #270 on: January 28, 2017, 07:45:30 pm »
Maybe because he's fucking shite & all the players know it.

And Connor Randall is a better option, right you are  :wave

Offline ToneLa

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #271 on: January 28, 2017, 07:46:22 pm »


Goodness sakes why can't we all be more positive.

Cause we conveniently forget we're on course to be in the champion's league next season? :)

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #272 on: January 28, 2017, 07:49:54 pm »
And Connor Randall is a better option, right you are  :wave

Going down to 10 men would have been a better option than Connor Randall.
"He's leaving because he's Guardiola's favourite. If it's anyone's fault, it's mine. I can't make myself shorter and learn Spanish." - Klopp on Gotze to Bayern

Offline WillG.LFC

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #273 on: January 28, 2017, 07:50:08 pm »
The three teams above us all have one thing when it comes to breaking down teams that park the bus whether it's Costa, Kane or Giroud they have someone who will hurt you if you try and defend your six yard box.

I love Klopp but his 4-3-3 reminds me of when Rafa asked McPartland, Segura and Borrell to come up with the blueprint for the future they came up with 4-3-3 but Rafa insisted that to be really effective in this League it had to be 4-2-3-1 with a big man upfront.

Imagine a Torres in his pomp in this side. It would alleviate the problems when the keeper kicks long and we lose 20 out of 24 against City and 18 out of 27 whilst giving us an added dimension against park the bus teams.
you posted in the other thread but may have deleted it about how fsg have improved us on the pitch. Perhaps this sticking to the same formation is evidence of the plan in place coincidentally. We are sticking with a philosophy and formation even when it isnt working so ultimately klopp can bring in players that match it. We will never know if it keeps changing. Rodgers chopped and changed at times and had a mismatch of a squad in the end

Maybe this bad spell will be part of good growth looking back by persevering with it even when players vital to it like courinho and mane where unavailable. Perhaps klopps next targets will be a stronger/pacier striker like he had at dortmund in lewandowski or aubemayang but is unwilling to compromise which is why we aren't panic buying this jan
« Last Edit: January 28, 2017, 07:52:11 pm by WillG.LFC »

Offline Binomial

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #274 on: January 28, 2017, 07:50:58 pm »
Cause we conveniently forget we're on course to be in the champion's league next season? :)

Alright calm down, this isn't the bullshit (otherwise known as the optimism) thread.
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Offline JG6

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #275 on: January 28, 2017, 07:51:12 pm »
We're 2 points off of 2nd place in the league.  What the fuck is wrong with you?

What's wrong with me is that I don't think we shouldn't be allowed to question Klopp at all because he's Jurgen Klopp and he's only been here a year. So wind your neck in and say something constructive.

Offline Sahara

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #276 on: January 28, 2017, 07:53:17 pm »
Beyond the whole how to deal with the parked bus concern, as a whole, as a team I feel we don't have the correct balance between defense and attack and the adaptability in tactics and the certain players who can execute this, particularly midfielders.

We have Matip coming back which will help as well as Mane, but usually, when sides go back to basics it's focus is on the defensive front but for us I feel it's usually on our attacking front. 
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Offline Len1

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #277 on: January 28, 2017, 08:31:24 pm »
Yep Woodburn and Firmino on the wings just compressed the play. It got a bit better in the second half when we switched to three at the back but we definitely need another wide player.

It's not just width though.  We're not moving the ball quickly enough, which allows the opposition defence to get into position. We're not making penetrative runs, from midfield to disrupt the defensive lines. Everything has become too safe and deliberate. There's a lack of flair; players too worried to give the ball away. An extra winger would definitely help, as will 1 game a week for the duration.

Offline bodhisattva

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #278 on: January 28, 2017, 09:01:55 pm »
I do wonder sometimes what we're trying to do, this has become such a problem now Klopp must be trying to come up with ways to combat the low block and
it's not as if he wouldn't have faced a similar problem in Germany with Dortmund. Is it just a matter of trusting your players to get that first goal and then the
opposition have to change? As others have said we're moving the ball very slowly and with not a lot of penetration, you can see lots of the players are low on confidence
as we're taking a split second longer to move the ball or an extra touch when we're in on goal (see Wijnaldum today) and that's the difference between a team that is fluid
and one that looks very pedestrian.

I do wonder if 3 at the back would be worth trying? With Mane hopefully back soon that might be a mute point and his pace is something we have badly missed in attack
and not only that but we don't have to move someone like Lallana out of a position he's being doing well in to accommodate that loss.

From now until the end of the season I hope Klopp keeps faith in the key fundamentals that had us playing such a good brand of football..

1. Firmino has to be the central striker, I don't care about Sturridge or Origi as another manager said he is the piston in our engine and when he is moved around it not only effects Firmino's output but it also has a huge effect on the team as a whole.
2. Lallana has to play in midfield, the midfield 3 without Lallana badly lacks creativity for certain games you could even make an argument for playing Coutinho and Lallana in a midfield 3 and getting an extra attacking player in the front 3.

With more time on the training pitch now until the end of the season im sure Klopp and is staff will be working on ways to combat teams that sit and try and frustrate us. I do think a lot of it comes down to individual ability and maybe we simply need better players in those attacking positions?

As others have mentioned when certain players are missing we are very vulnerable on the counter, when Henderson was fully fit he was doing a great job of stopping the counter but once again a niggling injury is affecting his form a little and we're still lacking a 2nd CB that is commanding as Matip is, again individual ability can go a long way to fix the individual mistakes we have been making at the back.


Offline mrantarctica

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #279 on: January 28, 2017, 09:03:12 pm »
Barring injuries from this point on, it would seem we're likely to just field our senior players rather than the youngsters. With 3 or so games a month, rest shouldn't be a problem from now on.

Some have highlighted the problem with defence and attack, but I think the two are invariably related. When assessed in any particular individual way, our players aren't bad defenders in their own right. The problem is that for our system, a lot are not suited. We dominated possession in our games. This means that we're defending set pieces and counter attacks for the most part. Naturally, this means that we need defenders who are suited to a style where they will see a lot of the ball, distribute a lot of the ball, and then defend counter attacks and set pieces. That requires pacy, athletic defenders who have very good awareness and concentration, have good recovery speed and are able to leap well and make strong clearing headers. Similarly, they have to be comfortable on the ball, and capable of either passing across the back 3/4/5 but also making a forward pass to an advanced team mate, or playing a longer ball into the box or advanced wide area. I don't think there are many defenders who tick the boxes for everything, but a lot of our defenders don't really look like they tick the boxes for any of them. You look at who we've played at CB under JK :

Matip, Lovren, Klavan, Lucas, (Sakho in exile). You'd perhaps say that only Matip and Lovren are anywhere near good enough aerially. In terms of pace and recovery speed then we're deficient across the board. In terms of awareness and concentration, then perhaps only Matip definitely good enough. In terms of bringing the ball out and distribution, then again maybe Matip, Lovren and Lucas if we're being generous. They aren't bad players or bad defenders individually, but, Matip aside, they aren't well suited to what we are asking from them.

We could apply a similar bench mark in midfield. Again, we're generally playing 3 across the middle in more central roles. Defensively, we're asking one player to sit deeper (Hendo usually). This player needs to be someone who has the awareness and positioning to be able to snuff out counter attacks early. I don't necessarily mean fouling players. It could be just having the recovery speed to match the opposition attacker and then jostle them and get a challenge in or even slow them down long enough that we can organise. This situation where we see attackers dribble half the pitch, or that we get hit on the counter without a challenge is starting to become too frequent and is a sign that our DM's aren't cutting it. This DM player has to have the tactical understanding to be able to get to the 2nd ball from headers/set pieces/etc. That we often aren't winning these knockdowns and 2nd balls is also a concern that we aren't quite up to the task in this department. The consequence is that our defenders (who probably aren't suited to counter-attacks) aren't getting enough protection during counter-attacks, and that's probably enough to see us ship goals at an alarming rate (i.e. a lesser team will have 25% possession, and 2 chances, and end up with 2 goals from counter attacks or set pieces). On the ball, this DM has to be adept at distributing rapidly. We have a lot of the ball, and we have to generate tempo which means we can't dilly-dally on the ball with more than 2 or 3 touches. That means an assured first touch and then able to distribute very quickly either short or long distances, and not afraid to make an incisive pass rather than simply just "play the way your facing" and constantly knocking it about our centre halves or fullbacks.

The other 2 positions in midfield are freer roles. They can either be used to provide width or remain more central depending on what we're asking them to do. If they are remaining narrow, then it is absolutely imperative that these players regularly get into advanced positions, and are able to run beyond our strikers, and able to play 1-2s in and around the area. If we haven't already created some tempo, then they have to be able to manufacture this, either by being part of a slick passing combination (again requires a lot of movement on their part) or by being able to beat the first defender and make a key pass. Defensively, these guys need to be able to press well and in combination with the other forward players. You look at Lallana and Coutinho, and they do all of the above. Both are capable of getting into advanced wide areas (often do in fact) or remain narrow. Both are more then capable of making 1-2 combinations and slick interchanges. Both are able to beat a defender either with good close control, or through a deft turn. Both are capable of getting into the box (or near it) regularly enough to have a pop at goal. Both can generally press well and can often win the ball back for us. Neither Can or Wijnaldum do many of these things particularly well. Both are guilty of staying far too narrow. Both are guilty of sitting too deep (sometimes in the same level as the DM). Both are guilty of being far too static, and not making runs into advanced areas and creating some doubt in defenders minds (who should already be occupied by marking our forwards). Both are guilty of frequently taking far too many touches on the ball and slowing the play down, which kills any tempo (if there was any there to begin with). Maybe they are actually capable of playign the roles required but for some reason, we aren't seeing it.

It either requires a bit of tweaking as to how we set ourselves up, or to replace the personnel with players who are more appropriate. It is far easier to do the former, as you don't need to buy new players. You just need to be able to figure out the strong and weak points in the team, and then construct a system that will utilise those strengths and mitigate the weaknesses.