Topic: The Klopp Template

[royhendo]

Hear Mourinho saying he'd been working with his team on defending throw ins? 

It was a nice goal.

[Red Beret]

Klopp has achieved that one crucial aspect of a winning team: we no longer need massive, wholesale changes or a major overhaul.

Between canny forays into the transfer market and the quality of our young players on the cusp of the first team,  we don't need to splurge in the transfer market and spend money like its going out of fashion. One or two players a season should cover it from now on. Statement signings no longer required.

[ScouserAtHeart]

Got it off the LFC reddit, win percentages by season

15/16: 44.2% - 52 matches

16/17: 57.4% - 47 matches

17/18: 55.4% - 56 matches

18/19: 71.7% - 53 matches

19/20: 88.2% - 34 matches (so far)

Data is for all competitions.

Shows the clear progress year on year, even if you think this year would be a statistical outlier

[royhendo]

Neil Atkinson on The Anfield Wrap shows is mooting the idea that we've taken Burnley's set up (that made their keepers look disproportionally good in stats) and applied it to elite level. In the discussion, they're suggesting that the kind of statistical modelling shown by Tim Waskett on the Royal Institution Xmas Lectures is applied in coaching to systematically reduce shot quality from opposing sides.

It reminded me of this over a decade ago, highlighting when basketball started getting its head around more complex in game analytics to find out why certain seemingly unfashionable players were actually amazingly effective.
https://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/15/magazine/15Battier-t.html

[lionel_messias]

Klopp has achieved that one crucial aspect of a winning team: we no longer need massive, wholesale changes or a major overhaul.

Between canny forays into the transfer market and the quality of our young players on the cusp of the first team,  we don't need to splurge in the transfer market and spend money like its going out of fashion. One or two players a season should cover it from now on. Statement signings no longer required.

It is so good it is almost beyond my imagination as a football fan. I always wanted us to have 3 or 4 great transfer windows in a row and now that has pretty much become the norm. But also what it seems to be is not just signing the right players but Klopp also seems to understand them better once they arrive. Great example is Salah taking up good central positions in his first pre-season, and therefore we used his scoring ability and unlocked a player who had never dreamed of getting 40 goals in one season before. Another great example is Sadio Mane, who always had periods of inconsistency at Southampton. We have turned him into a team playing machine, hell-bent on helping out; both as a goal-scorer (of key goals too) and a defensive stalwart, in the Ian Rush tradition. There are outstanding coaching stories all over the pitch. I don't have the knowledge or brain to comprehend it all yet but surely there will be books written about the mentality, psychology and fitness regimes of Jurgen Klopp and his team of coaches/physios.

We can but bask in the glory and in a modern new way, we return to a certain perch...

[afc tukrish]

Neil Atkinson on The Anfield Wrap shows is mooting the idea that we've taken Burnley's set up (that made their keepers look disproportionally good in stats) and applied it to elite level. In the discussion, they're suggesting that the kind of statistical modelling shown by Tim Waskett on the Royal Institution Xmas Lectures is applied in coaching to systematically reduce shot quality from opposing sides.

It reminded me of this over a decade ago, highlighting when basketball started getting its head around more complex in game analytics to find out why certain seemingly unfashionable players were actually amazingly effective.
https://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/15/magazine/15Battier-t.html

Remember reading that article about Battier when it was written, well worth a first read for anyone who hasn't...

[pistolpete]

Are you talking about this one? https://tribuna.com/en/liverpoolfc/news/3433391/ "Jurgen Klopp called upon professional surfer to battle team stress"

Thanks mate, been searching for that everywhere!

[afc tukrish]

Are you talking about this one? https://tribuna.com/en/liverpoolfc/news/3433391/ "Jurgen Klopp called upon professional surfer to battle team stress"

“F-E-A-R has two meanings: Forget everything and run or Face everything and rise — the choice is yours.”

Honestly, I think we choose the first one... all over the pitch...

[reeop]

Brilliant read on how Klopp came about in fostering "Mentality Monsters". He has the unique knack of leading teams through painful failures to greater height (which one could argue was a strength of Ferguson as well) in a way that neither Mourinho nor Pep have proved given their limited lifespans at each of their clubs. It bode wells for our mid-term ~5 years future and team/player transitions!

https://thesefootballtimes.co/2020/01/15/how-jurgen-klopps-focus-on-psychology-has-evolved-liverpools-players-into-mentality-monsters/

[the_red_pill]

Got it off the LFC reddit, win percentages by season

15/16: 44.2% - 52 matches

16/17: 57.4% - 47 matches

17/18: 55.4% - 56 matches

18/19: 71.7% - 53 matches

19/20: 88.2% - 34 matches (so far)

Data is for all competitions.

Shows the clear progress year on year, even if you think this year would be a statistical outlier

20/21: 100% - 5x matches

[Sinyoro]

German engineering is often talked about, in fact- it is revered around the world.
This team is an example of German engineering at its best. Think about German teams that have won the World Cup- efficient, relentless, mentally and physically superior.
This team is made in Germany, by a German and conforms to German standards of best design in the world.

[ToneLa]

German engineering is often talked about, in fact- it is revered around the world.
This team is an example of German engineering at its best. Think about German teams that have won the World Cup- efficient, relentless, mentally and physically superior.
This team is made in Germany, by a German and conforms to German standards of best design in the world.

Gehen gehen gehen

[Goalposts for Jumpers]

Anyone with any tactical insight want to explain our formation switch(es) for the second half against Wolves? And does Minamino's arrival create other options in how we set up?

It looked like we shuffled a few formations in the second half, coming out in a 4-4-2 with Ox left, Mina right and Bobby and Mo up front. Does this indicate a shift in set-up? Or just a one-off responding to Mina's first half showings? What thinks RAWK?

[PaulF]

Brilliant read on how Klopp came about in fostering "Mentality Monsters". He has the unique knack of leading teams through painful failures to greater height (which one could argue was a strength of Ferguson as well) in a way that neither Mourinho nor Pep have proved given their limited lifespans at each of their clubs. It bode wells for our mid-term ~5 years future and team/player transitions!

https://thesefootballtimes.co/2020/01/15/how-jurgen-klopps-focus-on-psychology-has-evolved-liverpools-players-into-mentality-monsters/

Or we are fucked next season as we have forgotten what not winning feels like.

[RedForeverTT]

German engineering is often talked about, in fact- it is revered around the world.
This team is an example of German engineering at its best. Think about German teams that have won the World Cup- efficient, relentless, mentally and physically superior.
This team is made in Germany, by a German and conforms to German standards of best design in the world.

It was their golden generation that was pieced together by a good national coach.

Whilst ours were fucked by Sven and then by Capello with favouritism and can’t give a fuck about England other than the money.

[AmanShah21]

I think Capello was on the right track atleast. Then came Hodge and despite dreadful performances in 3 major tournaments, surprisingly didn't get sacked and whatever was left of the golden generation was wasted away.

[A-Bomb]

Klopp has achieved that one crucial aspect of a winning team: we no longer need massive, wholesale changes or a major overhaul.

Between canny forays into the transfer market and the quality of our young players on the cusp of the first team,  we don't need to splurge in the transfer market and spend money like its going out of fashion. One or two players a season should cover it from now on. Statement signings no longer required.

I think the more challenging and interesting aspect is how he manages a new team from this one in the future. Its perhaps not so much who is brought in, but knowing when to let a player go.

[Sangria]

I think the more challenging and interesting aspect is how he manages a new team from this one in the future. Its perhaps not so much who is brought in, but knowing when to let a player go.

That was what he talked about on extending his contract. The signing of replacements can be said to be a team effort, but he's taking personal responsibility for letting the current stalwarts go. The current front 3, the stars of the team, will all have gone by the time Klopp calls it a day. There may be one or two remaining veterans in the same age group for the next manager (Alisson and Van Dijk?), but the bulk of the transition will be done by Klopp.

[AmanShah21]

That was what he talked about on extending his contract. The signing of replacements can be said to be a team effort, but he's taking personal responsibility for letting the current stalwarts go. The current front 3, the stars of the team, will all have gone by the time Klopp calls it a day. There may be one or two remaining veterans in the same age group for the next manager (Alisson and Van Dijk?), but the bulk of the transition will be done by Klopp.

I am still hoping and expecting he'll sign on for 3-5 more years after that which gets him to 60-62 years in age (around the time where he'd maybe retire from club football). Only thing I can see causing him to leave is if Germany need him direly for the national team. I think he'll do the full rebuild by that time and the next manager can walk into a well oiled machine again.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

Anyone with any tactical insight want to explain our formation switch(es) for the second half against Wolves? And does Minamino's arrival create other options in how we set up?

It looked like we shuffled a few formations in the second half, coming out in a 4-4-2 with Ox left, Mina right and Bobby and Mo up front. Does this indicate a shift in set-up? Or just a one-off responding to Mina's first half showings? What thinks RAWK?

It was based on what we had available and what Wolves were using against us.

[PaulF]

It looked to me like Minamino started his involvement in the match from the left as a direct replacement for Mané. Klopp mentioned post-match that he felt his calf within moments of coming on, so my theory is that he changed the shape and moved Minamino out to the right because Wolves’ two right-sided players, Doherty and Traore, were always going to be more of a problem for us as the game wore on. It was better to have Oxlade-Chamberlain out there for when we need to go backwards than someone who was essentially a debutant who had picked up a slight knock in the first half.

The other benefit to playing Minamino on our right-hand side in the second half was that he spent the majority of his match playing along the same side as where our supporters were situated. That probably sounds like a bit of a reach and I could just be rambling after work but I’m sure it would have been easier for him.

There was maybe a want from Klopp to get Firmino and Salah closer to each other in Mané’s absence, but I think his teams play in such close proximity to one another anyway that the difference in space between them in both halves probably ended up being fairly negligible. Nevertheless, changing the shape to deal with a tough opposition with a unique style of play coupled with bringing our two most dangerous players into more central starting positions just seemed like the common sense thing to do in my opinion.

Looking forward to hearing more from you. Welcome aboard the good train rawk.

[Goalposts for Jumpers]

It was based on what we had available and what Wolves were using against us.

Pretty rare for Klopp to do that though, no? Especially when he had Origi on the bench who has played most of his minutes in Mane's position the last 2 seasons.

It looked to me like Minamino started his involvement in the match from the left as a direct replacement for Mané. Klopp mentioned post-match that he felt his calf within moments of coming on, so my theory is that he changed the shape and moved Minamino out to the right because Wolves’ two right-sided players, Doherty and Traore, were always going to be more of a problem for us as the game wore on. It was better to have Oxlade-Chamberlain out there for when we need to go backwards than someone who was essentially a debutant who had picked up a slight knock in the first half.

The other benefit to playing Minamino on our right-hand side in the second half was that he spent the majority of his match playing along the same side as where our supporters were situated. That probably sounds like a bit of a reach and I could just be rambling after work but I’m sure it would have been easier for him.

There was maybe a want from Klopp to get Firmino and Salah closer to each other in Mané’s absence, but I think his teams play in such close proximity to one another anyway that the difference in space between them in both halves probably ended up being fairly negligible. Nevertheless, changing the shape to deal with a tough opposition with a unique style of play coupled with bringing our two most dangerous players into more central starting positions just seemed like the common sense thing to do in my opinion.

That seems about right, cheers!

(DeFacto could've tried a little bit harder, let's be honest  )

Where do we think Mina will end up? Personally see his main threat being his running from deep, it really messed with our shape when we played Salz, and as such would put him in the midfield 3, so I've been surprised to see him have nearly all his minutes in the front 3.

[elbow]

Where do we think Mina will end up?

Right back

😀

[farawayred]

Mina who? The pop star or the porn star? Either way, she'll end up probably on the screen.

[Yosser0_0]

Gini, Lallana & The Science Behind Liverpoo'ls Success | The Newsroom w/ David Maddock | PART 1

<a href="https://youtube.com/v/aYhirBxsoTI" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://youtube.com/v/aYhirBxsoTI</a>

Fascinating take on the evolution of the team and the methods employed at the club in the search for even more improvement. I found it interesting that they are looking into Particle Physics to help with tactical analysis.

https://www.bigdatabelfast.com/william-spearman

The video also references an interesting Podcast by MIT.

https://sloanreview.mit.edu/audio/talent-versus-teamwork/

[markedasred]

Gini, Lallana & The Science Behind Liverpoo'ls Success | The Newsroom w/ David Maddock | PART 1

Fascinating take on the evolution of the team and the methods employed at the club in the search for even more improvement. I found it interesting that they are looking into Particle Physics to help with tactical analysis.

https://open.spotify.com/episode/780jFjPxGcHiwwg5PJEVHx

For those without spotify accounts like myself:
https://sloanreview.mit.edu/audio/talent-versus-teamwork/

A book was mentioned in that, "Thinking Fast & Slow", which i have in the house and found too dense and dry to enjoy. Perhaps I'll have another crack at it.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

''They club will offer him a new contract.

The key was not that, but that he’s approaching 30-years-old. When Liverpool are looking at contracts, they reward contracts for performance – but they also look at potential sell-on. But the fact is at 30-years-old, you give one more contract, you get nothing for it.

You have to be sure that when you give that player a contract, it works. If you give him a five year contract, is he going to go on until he’s 35?

I suspect they’re talking to him about length, not money. They’ll give him the right money.''

Maddock [who I don't particularly like] but at least it's positive news on Wijnaldum

[lionel_messias]

Gini, Lallana & The Science Behind Liverpoo'ls Success | The Newsroom w/ David Maddock | PART 1

<a href="https://youtube.com/v/aYhirBxsoTI" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://youtube.com/v/aYhirBxsoTI</a>

Fascinating take on the evolution of the team and the methods employed at the club in the search for even more improvement. I found it interesting that they are looking into Particle Physics to help with tactical analysis.

https://www.bigdatabelfast.com/william-spearman

The video also references an interesting Podcast by MIT.

https://sloanreview.mit.edu/audio/talent-versus-teamwork/

This is absolutely immense, thanks for posting. I also hadn't realised Maddock was this clued in and articulate, must have escaped me as not a Daily Mirror reader.

[jillcwhomever]

Gini, Lallana & The Science Behind Liverpoo'ls Success | The Newsroom w/ David Maddock | PART 1

<a href="https://youtube.com/v/aYhirBxsoTI" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://youtube.com/v/aYhirBxsoTI</a>

Fascinating take on the evolution of the team and the methods employed at the club in the search for even more improvement. I found it interesting that they are looking into Particle Physics to help with tactical analysis.

https://www.bigdatabelfast.com/william-spearman

The video also references an interesting Podcast by MIT.

https://sloanreview.mit.edu/audio/talent-versus-teamwork/

That looks quality will listen to that later. Thanks.

[afc tukrish]

Logical progression of our attacking tactics will be to start kicking the ball over our goal line to give the other team a corner.

 

[SinceSixtyFive]

Logical progression of our attacking tactics will be to start kicking the ball over our goal line to give the other team a corner.

 

  The opposition will soon stop bringing anyone forward for them but instead will all stay in their own half. Except for the poor bugger who takes the corner by tapping it back into play and then legging it back to defend as fast as his legs can carry him.

[kavah]

Yosser #4068

That is brilliant - thanks for posting - I hardly ever read Maddock but that will change now.
I particularly found the development of centre halves interesting and the management of contracts and injuries, the MIT analysis of how team-work develops. And of course the brilliance of the manager in being able to use all of this data and how he simplifies and drills the new players (and how long it can take). And of what a great season Salah is having and how delighted Klopp is with him. In fact all of it - good stuff

[farawayred]

This is an animation of our midfield:



Henod-Gini are the spring that gives the energy, Bobby is the anchor, and Mane-Salah are the anchor wheel that does the final job.

[Yorkykopite]

This is absolutely immense, thanks for posting. I also hadn't realised Maddock was this clued in and articulate, must have escaped me as not a Daily Mirror reader.

Me too. Very impressive. Thanks for posting.

[royhendo]

https://tomkinstimes.com/2020/02/how-liverpool-can-dominate-in-all-game-states/

Sorry for spamming two threads but it seems relevant.

[wige]

https://tomkinstimes.com/2020/02/how-liverpool-can-dominate-in-all-game-states/

Sorry for spamming two threads but it seems relevant.

A brilliant, brilliant article that backs up and explains everything I've been seeing throughout the season.

[PaulF]

A brilliant, brilliant article that backs up and explains everything I've been seeing throughout the season.

Be interesting to see his spreadsheet. Given we are comfortably top 4 based on anything you like. I'd suggest probability for us winning any game are around 75percent. If you want to say we draw that specific game, then maybe the number he quoted is more reasonable. If you allow for one draw anywhere that changes things. Moreso if that draw can be a draw or win! Also is the head to head right? I thought that came in after gd , and I think still behind goals for.

[RedSince86]

That is a ridiculously good read.

I was grinning reading that, especially the part about lulling teams into a false of security then punishing them, 16 goals scored in the 25-45 minutes must be soul destroying for teams going in at HT, we are beating teams physically and draining them mentally.

What a team we are witnessing right now, absolute red machine that can go through the gears seamlessly and slowly crush teams like they are cans.

[kavah]

^ Yes great read thanks for posting - so much to comment on but I love the analysis of our expected goals - and real goal difference - at the different game states. Superb stuff.

... no matter the game state, Liverpool are mentally thrashing you. It’s not luck, it’s not the bounce of the ball and it’s not VAR. ...

[aussie_ox]

Great read.   One side of the game that is underrated is the mentality side.  XG may give a score of 0.8 for a striker one on one with Allison but big Virgil chasing him down and big Al looming large realistically makes that a harder chance than the XG suggests.