Topic: Everton - The 777 Unflushables

[jacobs chains]

I don't think they want the fist game played a BMD to be in the championship. Simple as that.

[Crosby Nick]

Oh, I don't know. 'Idioteque' sums up most of their fans. 'In Limbo' covers the wait for their next punishment for cheating. 'How to disappear completely' hints at their potential slide into administration. 'Weird Fishes', the fans again. 'Airbag' sums up a lot of GoT posters. 'Paranoid Android', the fans and their victim complex. 'Lucky' is what they are when they get a point at Anfield. 'No Surprises' when they lose yet again. 'The Tourist' being what they shout at passing Reds, who are usually from Kirkdale or Noggsy really.

'Let Down' is how they feel about their club. 'Knives Out' is for every new manager once the honeymoon period is over. '2+2=5' is for their accountant. 'A Punch up at a wedding' is for when the DJ plays YNWA. 'Feral' the Gwladys Street.

Need I go on? 

Bit of a tenuous connection but I was certainly thinking Kvarme Police, arrest this man when Danny Cadamarteri turned him inside out at Goodison in 1997.

[Crosby Nick]

Heard on TAW..that LFC were given an allotment of tickets

Have they lost the plot?

[Fromola]

Evertonomics

Lose another few million by not moving to the state of the art all bells and whistles best stadium in the country once it is ready , but hang on at Goodison for 6 months extra just so the fans can say goodbye with a traditional relegation escape party. Madness.

If BMD was the money machine it's lauded as they wouldn't leave it sitting empty for 6+ months. They are missing out on several million quid though.

[Ray K]

Oh, I don't know. 'Idioteque' sums up most of their fans. 'In Limbo' covers the wait for their next punishment for cheating. 'How to disappear completely' hints at their potential slide into administration. 'Weird Fishes', the fans again. 'Airbag' sums up a lot of GoT posters. 'Paranoid Android', the fans and their victim complex. 'Lucky' is what they are when they get a point at Anfield. 'No Surprises' when they lose yet again. 'The Tourist' being what they shout at passing Reds, who are usually from Kirkdale or Noggsy really.

'Let Down' is how they feel about their club. 'Knives Out' is for every new manager once the honeymoon period is over. '2+2=5' is for their accountant. 'A Punch up at a wedding' is for when the DJ plays YNWA. 'Feral' the Gwladys Street.

Need I go on? 

'Exit Music (for a cup)', after every 4th round defeat
'Fitter Happier', for June to August when they win the transfer window again
'Nice Dream', the day before the season starts, before they realise they have to watch them play actual football
'Sulk', after their usual derby defeat when they blame everybody but themselves

[Crosby Nick]

Some of their meathead fans look suspiciously ripped. Paranoid and roided up. Not a good look.

[Red Beret]

Have they lost the plot?

They just seem to keep digger a bigger hole for themselves, don't they?

[LuverlyRita]

If BMD was the money machine it's lauded as they wouldn't leave it sitting empty for 6+ months. They are missing out on several million quid though.

If the people who produced the financial projections are the same ones who produced the "Covid losses" then they are living in fantasy land if they think it's going to be a money machine. What it will undoubtedly do is stop them falling further behind from a matchday income perspective but if they think it will allow them to overtake the rest - where the rest already have new, improved or larger stadiums - then they are fools because they are playing catch-up and are a long way behind the top clubs. It's all remimiscent of the city centre store when they spent ages patting themselves on the back about the name (Everton Two in Liverpool One). Aside from the fact that the same naming algorithm yielded Everton One in Liverpool Four, they failed to appreciated that in opening the store in 2009, they missed the period when the city was rammed with tourists looking for souvenirs during the Capital of Culture year in 2008. In short they were late to the party and although they're doing their best to talk up BMD with terms like "iconic", the fact remains that they are no longer leaders but always at the rump end of progress. They also, as usual, conveniently ignore the fact that it's got to be paid for and that they will be carrying considerable debt and the need for higher ticket prices for a very long time; from that perspective you'd think they would be keen to get in there as soon as possible.
On the other hand.... they do like a good pitch invasion and if they get relegated you can imagine a fair amount of damage being done in the stadium. Perhaps they could get Woodison demolished on the cheap as they drop into the Championship?

[Schmidt]

If the people who produced the financial projections are the same ones who produced the "Covid losses" then they are living in fantasy land if they think it's going to be a money machine. What it will undoubtedly do is stop them falling further behind from a matchday income perspective but if they think it will allow them to overtake the rest - where the rest already have new, improved or larger stadiums - then they are fools because they are playing catch-up and are a long way behind the top clubs. It's all remimiscent of the city centre store when they spent ages patting themselves on the back about the name (Everton Two in Liverpool One). Aside from the fact that the same naming algorithm yielded Everton One in Liverpool Four, they failed to appreciated that in opening the store in 2009, they missed the period when the city was rammed with tourists looking for souvenirs during the Capital of Culture year in 2008. In short they were late to the party and although they're doing their best to talk up BMD with terms like "iconic", the fact remains that they are no longer leaders but always at the rump end of progress. They also, as usual, conveniently ignore the fact that it's got to be paid for and that they will be carrying considerable debt and the need for higher ticket prices for a very long time; from that perspective you'd think they would be keen to get in there as soon as possible.
On the other hand.... they do like a good pitch invasion and if they get relegated you can imagine a fair amount of damage being done in the stadium. Perhaps they could get Woodison demolished on the cheap as they drop into the Championship?

That's assuming they can increase ticket prices AND fill the stadium, which are two massive assumptions. They might manage to fill it for the first season but I don't see them maintaining it, and it could already be too little too late with their perilous situation.

[rafathegaffa83]

That's assuming they can increase ticket prices AND fill the stadium, which are two massive assumptions. They might manage to fill it for the first season but I don't see them maintaining it, and it could already be too little too late with their perilous situation.

Yep. There are numerous studies about this. Once the newfangled nature of a stadium is over (2-3 years) people will only keep coming back if the benefits (i.e a successful team) outweigh the costs

[LuverlyRita]

That's assuming they can increase ticket prices AND fill the stadium, which are two massive assumptions. They might manage to fill it for the first season but I don't see them maintaining it, and it could already be too little too late with their perilous situation.

Fair point. I think their Everton Two store was rammed on the opening day but whenever I pass it they often seem to have more staff than customers.

[Qston]

Yep. There are numerous studies about this. Once the newfangled nature of a stadium is over (2-3 years) people will only keep coming back if the benefits (i.e a successful team) outweigh the costs

Deffo worth noting this. When FSG were considering redeveloping Anfield, I see to remember quite a large study was commissioned as to the 'sweet spot' on capacity where you are pretty much guaranteed to fill the stadium for every home game. Quite a few on here were advocating that it should have a much larger capacity than we now have, conveniently ignoring the careful research that was done. It makes absolutely no difference if you can`t fill the thing, and of course we know that we have a considerably larger support than our blue neighbours.

[thaddeus]

Yep. There are numerous studies about this. Once the newfangled nature of a stadium is over (2-3 years) people will only keep coming back if the benefits (i.e a successful team) outweigh the costs

Sunderland's Stadium of Light capacity is 48,707.   Average attendance last season was 38,631 (79%).  Average attendance in their last season in the Premier League was 41,287 (85%).  The highest ever recorded was 46,791 (96%) in the first season of the stadium being at full capacity.

Middlesbrough's Riverside Stadium capacity is 34,742.  Average attendance last season was 26,877 (77%).  Average attendance in their last season in the Premier League was 30,449 (88%).  The highest ever recorded was 34,389 (99%) in the first season of the stadium being at full capacity.

I'd say they're both comparable to Everton so would agree that Everton can expect an early uptick in attendances but unlikely to be sustainable, particularly if they were to be relegated.  Both Sunderland and Middlesbrough struggled to sell out their new grounds after the initial hype even when they were in the Premier League.

I'd still expect it to add £1mn per home game to their matchday revenue which is £19mn each season - more if they have some cup runs and home ties - so not to be sniffed at.  As with all stadiums they take a long time to pay off unless you're gifted them by the government.

[Son of Spion]

Yep. There are numerous studies about this. Once the newfangled nature of a stadium is over (2-3 years) people will only keep coming back if the benefits (i.e a successful team) outweigh the costs

It's common sense, isn't it. The initial novelty value will see them fill it, but it will naturally fade and attendances will fall away if they aren't regularly challenging for trophies, which they definitely won't be.

Fans may well be prepared to stump up the vastly increased costs of attending for a certain period of time, but not consistently. Especially as the football will not have improved much or at all. Sooner or later, the feeling of 'different place, same old shit' will replace the excitement the new environment brought.

The problem for them is that they're Everton. They'll have the same old dross on the pitch and the same old negative heads in the stands. They'll still have the crushingly depressive Evertonian mindset. The novelty of spending out a lot more for the same old Everton will wear off pretty quickly. A few seasons, maximum.

[afc tukrish]

I don't think they want the fist game played a BMD to be in the championship. Simple as that.

Fist games on player cars only?

[Black Bull Nova]

If BMD was the money machine it's lauded as they wouldn't leave it sitting empty for 6+ months. They are missing out on several million quid though.

Given that it is a new stadium I don't see the reason for delay, it may be something I am not aware of but it makes no real sense to me. Have you ever heard of a club waiting a 6 months/a year to get into it's revenue generating new stadium with no explained rationale.


I assume the hearing is going on now, you can almost hear the pleas;

"but, we assumed as we had been charged with the offence that we could just go out and do it again and we could then roll the punishments into one"

"sorry, no"

[Black Bull Nova]

Fair point. I think their Everton Two store was rammed on the opening day

Were these parked nearby?

[gerrardisgod]

Only time I’ve been in that Everton 2 shop was on a Christmas Eve (yes, I’m one of those people) and there was just myself and the staff in there. Anytime there’s people in there, it’s probably just cardboard cutouts, going around on trains, Home Alone style.

[Schmidt]

Given that it is a new stadium I don't see the reason for delay, it may be something I am not aware of but it makes no real sense to me. Have you ever heard of a club waiting a 6 months/a year to get into it's revenue generating new stadium with no explained rationale.

I wonder if they're concerned that if they start using it half way through the season the novelty will have worn off by the following season and sales will be affected. I'd imagine fans who have bought a season ticket for this season wouldn't be expected to pay more for the games in the new stadium anyway, so the financial bump of moving there early might not be worth it? Better to get as many fans as possible to buy more expensive season tickets next season and milk it while they can.

[Crosby Nick]

Have many sides lived halfway through a season? In my mind it makes sense to move at the start of a new season but have a feeling Spurs only loved after Christmas whichever year they moved. And maybe Middlesbrough too. Vaguely remember the fanfare of that opening some time in Autumn.

[Romford_Red]

Have many sides lived halfway through a season? In my mind it makes sense to move at the start of a new season but have a feeling Spurs only loved after Christmas whichever year they moved. And maybe Middlesbrough too. Vaguely remember the fanfare of that opening some time in Autumn.

It's true.
Spurs only loved after Christmas.

[Crosby Nick]

It's true.
Spurs only loved after Christmas.

Are they even loved then?

[Black Bull Nova]

Have many sides lived halfway through a season? In my mind it makes sense to move at the start of a new season but have a feeling Spurs only loved after Christmas whichever year they moved. And maybe Middlesbrough too. Vaguely remember the fanfare of that opening some time in Autumn.

Spurs may have lived and loved but they have never won anything

[SamLad]

Nick's going for the "Most Obvious Repeated Typo" award.

[Peabee]

Sunderland's Stadium of Light capacity is 48,707.   Average attendance last season was 38,631 (79%).  Average attendance in their last season in the Premier League was 41,287 (85%).  The highest ever recorded was 46,791 (96%) in the first season of the stadium being at full capacity.

Middlesbrough's Riverside Stadium capacity is 34,742.  Average attendance last season was 26,877 (77%).  Average attendance in their last season in the Premier League was 30,449 (88%).  The highest ever recorded was 34,389 (99%) in the first season of the stadium being at full capacity.

I'd say they're both comparable to Everton so would agree that Everton can expect an early uptick in attendances but unlikely to be sustainable, particularly if they were to be relegated.  Both Sunderland and Middlesbrough struggled to sell out their new grounds after the initial hype even when they were in the Premier League.

I'd still expect it to add £1mn per home game to their matchday revenue which is £19mn each season - more if they have some cup runs and home ties - so not to be sniffed at.  As with all stadiums they take a long time to pay off unless you're gifted them by the government.

Even that extra £19m, if it was £19m, wouldn't be pure profit. There's the extra costs of running a larger stadium, more staff etc, and, of course, the interest payments.

What's happening with Goodison? Has the land been sold?

[1892tillforever]

Oh, I don't know. 'Idioteque' sums up most of their fans. 'In Limbo' covers the wait for their next punishment for cheating. 'How to disappear completely' hints at their potential slide into administration. 'Weird Fishes', the fans again. 'Airbag' sums up a lot of GoT posters. 'Paranoid Android', the fans and their victim complex. 'Lucky' is what they are when they get a point at Anfield. 'No Surprises' when they lose yet again. 'The Tourist' being what they shout at passing Reds, who are usually from Kirkdale or Noggsy really.

'Let Down' is how they feel about their club. 'Knives Out' is for every new manager once the honeymoon period is over. '2+2=5' is for their accountant. 'A Punch up at a wedding' is for when the DJ plays YNWA. 'Feral' the Gwladys Street.

Need I go on? 

Stop Whispering - Start Booing
I Can't (Score a Goal)
Climbing Up the Walls - Describes the cokeheads in their fanbase
Karma Police - Points deductions
Everything In Its Right Place - When they finally end up in the Championship
Amnesiac - Forgetting the fact they've been crap for most of their history
Hail to the Thief - Whenever Liverpool FC win anything
Go to Sleep - Watching Dycheball
A Wolf at the Door - 777
House of Cards - Falling the fuck down

[Crosby Nick]

Nick's going for the "Most Obvious Repeated Typo" award.

Be quiet you aunt.

[SamLad]

Be quiet you aunt.

[rafathegaffa83]

Even that extra £19m, if it was £19m, wouldn't be pure profit. There's the extra costs of running a larger stadium, more staff etc, and, of course, the interest payments.

Yep. People forget about increased maintenance costs. Just because it's new doesn't mean they can avoid some costs. If anything due to its location BMD will likely have unique upkeep costs (i.e anti-salt corrosion).

It's common sense, isn't it. The initial novelty value will see them fill it, but it will naturally fade and attendances will fall away if they aren't regularly challenging for trophies, which they definitely won't be.

Fans may well be prepared to stump up the vastly increased costs of attending for a certain period of time, but not consistently. Especially as the football will not have improved much or at all. Sooner or later, the feeling of 'different place, same old shit' will replace the excitement the new environment brought.

The problem for them is that they're Everton. They'll have the same old dross on the pitch and the same old negative heads in the stands. They'll still have the crushingly depressive Evertonian mindset. The novelty of spending out a lot more for the same old Everton will wear off pretty quickly. A few seasons, maximum.

It wouldn't surprise me if you get fans being more reluctant to go down there after a few seasons due to issues like ticket costs, the weather, it looking like a pain to get there and get out. I've said it before this has very expensive Candlestick Park vibes, another stadium built by the water with environmental conditions downplayed/overlooked. Fans would freeze in the summer, players would complain about the wind and dampness

[newterp]

Be quiet you aunt.

Quite. The word is quite.

[thaddeus]

They just said on the radio that it's been 100 days since Everton won a league game.  I thought that couldn't be right so checked and it's not right... it's 101 days since they won at Burnley.

That little burst they had just after the points deduction when they got 22 points from 9 games is holding their entire season together.  9 points from their 19 other games this season 

[Black Bull Nova]

Even that extra £19m, if it was £19m, wouldn't be pure profit. There's the extra costs of running a larger stadium, more staff etc, and, of course, the interest payments.

What's happening with Goodison? Has the land been sold?

At least £1m a week on perfume, Chanel  No 1995

[rob1966]

They just said on the radio that it's been 100 days since Everton won a league game.  I thought that couldn't be right so checked and it's not right... it's 101 days since they won at Burnley.

That little burst they had just after the points deduction when they got 22 points from 9 games is holding their entire season together.  9 points from their 19 other games this season 

Fuck, if the PL hadn't have docked the c*nts, they'd be firmly in the bottom 3 now

[Black Bull Nova]

Everton have some massive games left, alongside the games you expect them to lose they have


Everton v Burnley
Everton v Forest
Luton v Everton
Everton v Brentford
Everton v Sheff Utd


For any other club you would say that was a cast iron opportunity to stay up, regardless of penalties, but this is Everton

[Peabee]

At least £1m a week on perfume, Chanel  No 1995

 

They could  do a deal with Odour-eaters for naming rights.

[LuverlyRita]

Yep. People forget about increased maintenance costs. Just because it's new doesn't mean they can avoid some costs. If anything due to its location BMD will likely have unique upkeep costs (i.e anti-salt corrosion).

It wouldn't surprise me if you get fans being more reluctant to go down there after a few seasons due to issues like ticket costs, the weather, it looking like a pain to get there and get out. I've said it before this has very expensive Candlestick Park vibes, another stadium built by the water with environmental conditions downplayed/overlooked. Fans would freeze in the summer, players would complain about the wind and dampness

There are a lot of red flags about the project that they could arguably justify overlooking when they thought they were getting the stadium free off the back of the Commonwealth Games bid. As soon as the freebie stadium bit the dust they needed to take a step back and have a re-think but by then they'd sold the romantic waterside project to the fans and decided to keep digging that big hole they'd started 

[4pool]

Wonder if Everton looked at the annual maintenance costs of the Echo Arena?

Wonder what that runs.

[rob1966]

There are a lot of red flags about the project that they could arguably justify overlooking when they thought they were getting the stadium free off the back of the Commonwealth Games bid. As soon as the freebie stadium bit the dust they needed to take a step back and have a re-think but by then they'd sold the romantic waterside project to the fans and decided to keep digging that big hole they'd started 

And filling in the big hole they intended to build on

[Fromola]

Sunderland's Stadium of Light capacity is 48,707.   Average attendance last season was 38,631 (79%).  Average attendance in their last season in the Premier League was 41,287 (85%).  The highest ever recorded was 46,791 (96%) in the first season of the stadium being at full capacity.

Middlesbrough's Riverside Stadium capacity is 34,742.  Average attendance last season was 26,877 (77%).  Average attendance in their last season in the Premier League was 30,449 (88%).  The highest ever recorded was 34,389 (99%) in the first season of the stadium being at full capacity.

I'd say they're both comparable to Everton so would agree that Everton can expect an early uptick in attendances but unlikely to be sustainable, particularly if they were to be relegated.  Both Sunderland and Middlesbrough struggled to sell out their new grounds after the initial hype even when they were in the Premier League.

I'd still expect it to add £1mn per home game to their matchday revenue which is £19mn each season - more if they have some cup runs and home ties - so not to be sniffed at.  As with all stadiums they take a long time to pay off unless you're gifted them by the government.

The fans will have to put their hands in their pockets even for that increase though. That would double the matchday income at Goodison.

This is from Newcastle's last season accounts:

Match income increased £10.4m (38%) from £27.5m to £37.9m, with 7 cup fixtures played in the year (2021-22: 2) as the team progressed to the EFL Cup Final, an enhanced pre-season and mid-season programme and increased revenues from both seasonal and matchday hospitality

That's with 52k sell outs every week, a team that reached a cup final and finished top 4 and presumably a bit of Saudi creative accounting.

Pre-takeover, with 52k average crowds, Newcastle's matchday revenue wasn't much better off than Goodison. Everton's best bet is expensive hospitality packages, but you need the product on the pitch as well. Who wants to pay top dollar to watch dogs of war shite in a windswept freezing cold bowl? They might fill everything initially but the novelty will quickly wear off if the team are shit.

[MrGrumpy]

Pre-takeover, with 52k average crowds, Newcastle's matchday revenue wasn't much better off than Goodison. Everton's best bet is expensive hospitality packages, but you need the product on the pitch as well. Who wants to pay top dollar to watch dogs of war shite in a windswept freezing cold bowl? They might fill everything initially but the novelty will quickly wear off if the team are shit.

Is there enough demand for corporate hosptality in the North West and Merseyside for Everton to cash in here?