Topic: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General

[BrandoLFC]

I don’t have any issue with the PL deciding that VAR shouldn’t be used for penalties which is seemingly the case.  I suggested this before as a way to make VAR better.  The PL should just say it in writing though so there is no confusion.  Issue again is a ref that thinks an arm around a throat isn’t a foul...

[classycarra]

I don’t have any issue with the PL deciding that VAR shouldn’t be used for penalties which is seemingly the case.  I suggested this before as a way to make VAR better.  The PL should just say it in writing though so there is no confusion.  Issue again is a ref that thinks an arm around a throat isn’t a foul...

Yep. And this isn't bias. I think City should have had a penalty against Spurs for an equally (or just slightly less) shocking decision on a pull in the box.

[Zlen]

Shameful shit today.
That is a penalty, why wasnt VAR even consulted? Again, referees are engaged in their favourite game - scripting the outcomes according to who is playing and where.

[rowan_d]

Shameful shit today.
That is a penalty, why wasnt VAR even consulted? Again, referees are engaged in their favourite game - scripting the outcomes according to who is playing and where.

It was, Marriner was just apparently told that he hadn't made an obvious error that needed to be overturned. Marriner himself, and whoever told him that are a couple of mugs.

[classycarra]

It was, Marriner was just apparently told that he hadn't made an obvious error. Marriner himself, and whoever told him that are a couple of mugs.

To be fair the linesman and the video ref (don't know who it was today) are the ones who've made a bigger error given the position of the foul.

[Rush 82]

Well, Scholes says that's not a pen so you lot can just stop sagging poor old VAR and Marriner the Munificent





So there

[Zlen]

Well, Scholes says that's not a pen so you lot can just stop sagging poor old VAR and Marriner the Munificent





So there

No surprise he wouldn’t see that as s foul. He went through his career convinced that a two footed tackle in the knee is not a foul - as they were almost never given against him.

[farawayred]

Thing is, the refs in England are shit with VAR and shit without VAR. Binning it or not ain't going to make a difference.

[Rush 82]

Thing is, the refs in England are shit with VAR and shit without VAR. Binning it or not ain't going to make a difference.

Amen

[classycarra]

Thing is, the refs in England are shit with VAR and shit without VAR. Binning it or not ain't going to make a difference.

Yes it would. It'd reduce the length of stoppages

[rob1966]

Shameful shit today.
That is a penalty, why wasnt VAR even consulted? Again, referees are engaged in their favourite game - scripting the outcomes according to who is playing and where.

Its a subjective decision, that is why VAR didn't look at it. Marriner saw it and in his opinion its not a foul, so var isn't being used to review.

[classycarra]

Its a subjective decision, that is why VAR didn't look at it. Marriner saw it and in his opinion its not a foul, so var isn't being used to review.

Why do people keep using this argument? Tielemans was a subjective decision too and Mike Riley said VAR made a mistake not overturning it

EDIT: Klopp has also disproved this suggestion - he said the 4th official told him it was checked on VAR

[Zlen]

As I said, shameful shit. There is no fucking subjective interpretation required there, we all still remember referees, pundits, priests, policemen, clowns and their dogs named Buffy telling us how Lovren touching Calvert Lewin was a clear penalty. Rules are rules they said and Buffy barked, rules are fucking rules.

[campioni]

The problem with VAR is we still have the same old incompetent premier league refs making the decisions. The only difference being they’re now sitting behind a screen doing it instead of on the pitch.

I see on twitter people are saying the Matip incident wasn’t just to be a ‘clear and obvious’ error. What does that even mean?! Lascelles clearly fouled Matip in the box. Is Marriner saying he saw it but didn’t think it’s a foul or that he didn’t see it at all? Either way, it’s a foul that can be clearly seen on the replays. The VAR ref should be overruling the on-field decision but it seems like they don’t want to call out their mates. The one at West Ham a couple of weeks ago was even worse.

They may as well just stop using it for penalty decisions which are still subjective and use it for offsides which are black and white.

[4pool]

Post match..

Gini, I asked the ref if it was a pen and he said they've already checked on VAR and it's no pen.


For our match:

VAR: Mike Dean. Assistant VAR: Dan Robathan.

[counterfit_hero]

V.A.R is like a surgeon when it comes to off side situations but manages to butcher anything that relates to open play. As it has been said before, having the same old referees sitting in the v.a.r caravan renders it completely useless. They are reluctant (to say the least) to overturn their mates decisions, they can also control the stats that are supposed to show the level of competence of the refs on the field by not overturning anything. Without completely independent v.a.r specialists, it is a total waste of time.

[farawayred]

Post match..

Gini, I asked the ref if it was a pen and he said they've already checked on VAR and it's no pen.


For our match:

VAR: Mike Dean. Assistant VAR: Dan Robathan.

The referee and VAR were both correct.

Sincerely,
Mike Riley

[DelTrotter]

Whether we like VAR and the point of it or not it just seems to be a total waste of everyone’s time and money if they aren’t even going to bother using it properly. Just get rid of it. It’s totally pointless “used” like this.

[farawayred]

VAR would be fine if England bring in foreign referees to implement it. Send the English referees to Italy and Germany, and they will want to get rid of VAR immediately.

Unfortunately, it's very hard to separate the VAR as a system from its application by incompetent referees.

[Agent99]

Why can't the VAR official just have a chat with the ref like in Rugby? The VAR gimp tells the ref that he should have another look at a pitch side monitor (do they use them over here?) as the Newcastle player had his hand round Matip's neck. I wanted VAR but I didn't think it would be like this.

[JasonF]

I must admit, I thought it got a little silly in the Champions League last year with the ref constantly going over to the monitor, but I had relatively high hopes for VAR overall. I think they've gone too far the other way, they should be able to tell the referee he's got it wrong or get him to take another look.

The way it is being used they might as well declare it as being just for offsides.

[classycarra]

The way it is being used they might as well declare it as being just for offsides.

Which, ironically, it's not particularly accurate for.

VAR would be fine if England bring in foreign referees to implement it.

Nah, it wouldn't. This kind of wishful thinking hasn't worked in the last ten years of trialling it, I don't think it'll help now either.

Send the English referees to Italy and Germany, and they will want to get rid of VAR immediately.

Lots of German matchgoing supporters protest against VAR regularly, so adding English refs probably won't be required to worsen it's reputation there

[tornado]

I think issue might be that since it messed up at the start of the season, they are let it keep messing up for the rest of the season, atleast halfway. Head locks in penalty area are fine this season now. This is in line with my understanding of English bureaucracy and concept of fair need.

[4pool]

Why can't the VAR official just have a chat with the ref like in Rugby? The VAR gimp tells the ref that he should have another look at a pitch side monitor (do they use them over here?) as the Newcastle player had his hand round Matip's neck. I wanted VAR but I didn't think it would be like this.

This must be news to some but..

The Ref is in constant contact with his officials. Including VAR. He would have said no pen on Matip (and why). VAR would watch the replay and either agree or claim clear and obvious error. At which point the Ref can change the call OR go look at the monitor pitch side and make a final decision then.

[farawayred]

Which, ironically, it's not particularly accurate for.

Nah, it wouldn't. This kind of wishful thinking hasn't worked in the last ten years of trialling it, I don't think it'll help now either.
Lots of German matchgoing supporters protest against VAR regularly, so adding English refs probably won't be required to worsen it's reputation there

I don't know, mate. I've seen VAR applied in the CL, it was fine. I see now and then German and Italian games (not watching them regularly, to be honest), and those were fine. I'm sure that there are fans against it in every country, but VAR for me has not been an issue; it's implementation is. I had terrible time with the women's WC, it was a fucking joke, and now in the PL, it's an even bigger joke.

I'm a VAR supporter (except for the offside part), but if that's the way Mike Riley tries to implement it, it's a fucking nuisance, get rid completely. But if they want to learn from it, thumbs up! The admission of guilt (4 wrongs in 4 rounds) is a major step in the right direction. Have they (or Mike Riley) ever admitted the referees were wrong? So, we'll see.

[classycarra]

I don't know, mate. I've seen VAR applied in the CL, it was fine.

I mostly only saw our games, but the CL refs made as bad or worse a mistake as the Tielemans mistake that Riley has admitted to with Salah accidentally going over the ball against Porto.

I see now and then German and Italian games (not watching them regularly, to be honest), and those were fine. I'm sure that there are fans against it in every country, but VAR for me has not been an issue; it's implementation is.

I think it's more than just a few fans, here's just a few examples of the clubs and supporters groups that have had issue with it in Germany despite the implementation being more in line with your preference
https://www.dw.com/en/var-in-the-premier-league-how-has-it-worked-in-the-bundesliga/a-46333249

The admission of guilt (4 wrongs in 4 rounds) is a major step in the right direction. Have they (or Mike Riley) ever admitted the referees were wrong? So, we'll see.

I dunno mate, I guess I am just less willing to rely on good faith and 'I'm sure it'll get better' than you. I don't see an 'admission of guilt' (deliberately incorrect in number, underestimating for PR reasons) as much of an improvement. Not a thing has been said about how they're going to reduce the number of serious errors with it. Most concerninglyy, there is no suggestion of accountability by Hawkeye for their failure with the Newcastle handball goal nor a suggestion of how to prevent such a serious failure happening again (despite years of trialling the technology) before it even got to the poor English ref to potentially mess up. Just empty words at this point.

[harleydanger]

Saw at least 5 absolute terrible VAR fuck ups in one day of football.

Does absolutely nothing for the game.

[LovelyCushionedHeader]

Saw at least 5 absolute terrible VAR fuck ups in one day of football.

Does absolutely nothing for the game.

It'll be zero mistakes according to Mike Riley so don't worry about it.

Id even be annoyed if I was Newcastle fan yesterday. They twice got behind our defence only to be judged offside when they weren't. The referee should be letting the move play out in those instances but the Premier League seem to be against that approach for some reason.

[Andy82lfc]

It'll be zero mistakes according to Mike Riley so don't worry about it.

Id even be annoyed if I was Newcastle fan yesterday. They twice got behind our defence only to be judged offside when they weren't. The referee should be letting the move play out in those instances but the Premier League seem to be against that approach for some reason.

Exactly right, in Europe they would have let go such tight calls wouldn’t they, then flagged after the action, then left it to var.

Didn’t Collina hear that Riley said they would implement var differently before the season and said basically, no they can’t do that as it’s the new laws of the game. Well as usual Riley and his team are showing the rest of Europe how to get things done. How the fuck are our refs so inept yet untouched season after season, it’s incredible.

[Yiannis]

Mr Riley, you told us a couple of days ago that you felt there were occasions where VAR should have intervened and it didn't and you were looking to fix that. Yesterday we had a blatant example of a penalty that was not given and no VAR was involved.

Make it right or I will fight you, sir.

[classycarra]

Exactly right, in Europe they would have let go such tight calls wouldn’t they, then flagged after the action, then left it to var.

Didn’t Collina hear that Riley said they would implement var differently before the season and said basically, no they can’t do that as it’s the new laws of the game. Well as usual Riley and his team are showing the rest of Europe how to get things done. How the fuck are our refs so inept yet untouched season after season, it’s incredible.

German officials also don't like the international VAR instructions, and so ref it differently in their own way too. It's not just England. It's almost as if the system is shit, and it's not just the English refs holding us back from some VAR nirvana

[Fazak_Red]

Didn’t work well in the Genoa game then. Not even sure he touched the Genoa striker.

Just seen it back and it was a blatant dive.

[Andy82lfc]

German officials also don't like the international VAR instructions, and so ref it differently in their own way too. It's not just England. It's almost as if the system is shit, and it's not just the English refs holding us back from some VAR nirvana

I can't comment on any other league as I don't watch them enough each week, but I am certain the english refs are fucking it up quite badly and not in subjective terms, on basic decisions. I also know the english refs are, on reputation, some of the worst in europe, so it doesn't come as much of a surprise to be honest. Most people know there will never be 100% var nirvana, impossible as there will always be subjectiveness in the game, all people want to see it is being used when there is clear use for it, such as the wrestling move on Matip yesterday. I'm not one of these people that think, oh it's ok we won anyway, it's absolutely not as if we hadn't scored again there would be hell to pay and rightly so.

The reason why it makes me so mad (in footballing terms, not in general ) also is that it seems on the first few games ref's are almost willing to let some things go with the 'back up' of var, yet var is doing fuck all as they don't want to disrupt the game hardly at all, which seems on viewing to be the general position the refs want to take. I find it hard to believe the ref and assistant could have seen that move on Matip yesterday and not blown up. Players don't seem to protest much either as they are thinking it is going to go to VAR so it's ok.

Never going to be a perfect system, but all most want is the refs to do the absolute basic, mind-numbingly simple tasks right, which as expected from our moronic, thick-as-shit refs they can't even do that right.

[rob1966]

Why do people keep using this argument? Tielemans was a subjective decision too and Mike Riley said VAR made a mistake not overturning it

EDIT: Klopp has also disproved this suggestion - he said the 4th official told him it was checked on VAR

The problem isn't VAR, its the fucking useless bastards masquerading as officials that is the issue.

I was on a course yesterday, so recorded the game and watched it back when I got home. I fully expected VAR to be used for that foul, it was the BT ref they use who explained the whole subjective and that is why I went with that - now I know that they did check with VAR, then its utter shit that they didn't call it as a mistake, it was a clear foul when reviewed. I am now of the opinion that the arrogant c*nts are trying to wreck VAR - used properly its a great tool, used like this it is fucking shite.

Don't bin VAR, sack all the refs.

Why can't the VAR official just have a chat with the ref like in Rugby? The VAR gimp tells the ref that he should have another look at a pitch side monitor (do they use them over here?) as the Newcastle player had his hand round Matip's neck. I wanted VAR but I didn't think it would be like this.

Rugby is the other way around - its the on field ref who asks for the video ref to review things, if the ref gives a try, then the video ref doesn't get involved, even if TV replays show it shouldn't have been given.

[classycarra]

The problem isn't VAR, its the fucking useless bastards masquerading as officials that is the issue.

It's not mutually exclusive. It's both that are the issue.

Hawkeye has fucked up with the Newcastle goal, and during our 4 minute break in the game against Arsenal. The UEFA service provider fucked up with the Abraham dive in the super cup. The service provider fucked up in Germany first day of last season. Also fucked up for the whole season with their offside 'system'.

English refs are being used as a handy excuse. The system is getting an easy ride from some, for no obvious reason except for wishful thinking/faith

[Andy82lfc]

It's not mutually exclusive. It's both that are the issue.

Hawkeye has fucked up with the Newcastle goal, and during our 4 minute break in the game against Arsenal. The UEFA service provider fucked up with the Abraham dive in the super cup. The service provider fucked up in Germany first day of last season. Also fucked up for the whole season with their offside 'system'.

English refs are being used as a handy excuse. The system is getting an easy ride from some, for no obvious reason except for wishful thinking/faith

It's not really an excuse it's as good as fact they are shit and ruining the basic system. IMO when you have a ref that is watching that Matip foul, then saying, er no foul. It's as clear as day there is something going on we don't know about, as every fucker on the planet including the ref on BT calls a foul. That is zero to do with VAR and 100% to do with Riley and his boys club fucking it up.

[classycarra]

It's not really an excuse it's as good as fact they are shit and ruining the basic system. IMO when you have a ref that is watching that Matip foul, then saying, er no foul. It's as clear as day there is something going on we don't know about, as every fucker on the planet including the ref on BT calls a foul. That is zero to do with VAR and 100% to do with Riley and his boys club fucking it up.

Sorry but you haven't offered a single argument in favour of your idea that the system is fine it's just refs.

For example maybe you could look at my non-English ref examples and argue how those aren't problems with the VAR system

Or this error in the much praised UEFA CL VAR https://twitter.com/ScoutedSZN/status/1115720848999165952

I really just don't understand how wishful thinking can get so far as to have someone suggest the obvious errors have "zero to do with VAR" and is just the refs fault. The system IS the refs

It's not some magic technological AI on a game of FIFA. It's more refs being added to more subjective decisions.

[Andy82lfc]

Sorry but you haven't offered a single argument in favour of your idea that the system is fine it's just refs.

For example maybe you could look at my non-English ref examples and argue how those aren't problems with the VAR system

Or this error in the much praised UEFA CL VAR https://twitter.com/ScoutedSZN/status/1115720848999165952

I really just don't understand how wishful thinking can get so far as to have someone suggest the obvious errors have "zero to do with VAR" and is just the refs fault. The system IS the refs

It's not some magic technological AI on a game of FIFA. It's more refs being added to more subjective decisions.

Sorry maybe you've misunderstood me, not advocating that the system is fine or perfect, just mainly saying that the refs are doing a fantastic job of fucking it up royally so far. If you give a shiny, fast, albeit not perfect, motor car to a bunch of monkeys, they're gonna have a good go of ram raiding a few buildings with it. Yesterday was just a perfect example, whether you think the system is fine or not I don't think you can argue the refs are doing a shit poor job of getting the basics right so far.

[classycarra]

Sorry maybe you've misunderstood me, not advocating that the system is fine or perfect, just mainly saying that the refs are doing a fantastic job of fucking it up royally so far. If you give a shiny, fast, albeit not perfect, motor car to a bunch of monkeys, they're gonna have a good go of ram raiding a few buildings with it. Yesterday was just a perfect example, whether you think the system is fine or not I don't think you can argue the refs are doing a shit poor job of getting the basics right so far.

OK sorry I must have conflated your view with others. Can definitely fully agree English refs are doing terribly. I'm just saying that some people are in denial that the system itself is also fatally flawed, even if operated by peak Collina clones

[Adeemo]

Anyone else believe the media have been briefed to give it an easy ride and not focus too much on any individual incidents/fuck ups? It seems to me that some of the lack of interventions from VAR have been given a ridiculously easy ride from Sky etc. Be interesting to see how they cover one when it happens in a big match, especially later on in the season.