Topic: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General

[PhaseOfPlay]

In your opinion, is it possible to study full time for say 3 to 4 years, reviewing games etc, without actually stepping on the pitch and achieve the knowledge required to be a Premier League standard referee? I'm trying to get an idea of the feasibilty of using non referees to do the VAR.

It's definitely possible to do that and know the Laws of the Game inside out, for sure. But understanding what a referee is thinking, whilst communicating an issue to be looked at, can only be done with experience on the field.

So you'd definitely get knowledgeable people, but there would be no understanding of what the centre ref is thinking on some decisions.

[rob1966]

It's definitely possible to do that and know the Laws of the Game inside out, for sure. But understanding what a referee is thinking, whilst communicating an issue to be looked at, can only be done with experience on the field.

So you'd definitely get knowledgeable people, but there would be no understanding of what the centre ref is thinking on some decisions.

Cheers.

The FA do need to address the whole issue, what we are seeing now is an utter joke. The whole aim of VAR should be to make things easier for the referees, without interfering with the game more than is necessary. We are all used to seeing players arguing with the officials for a minute or so, if VAR cannot give a definitive answer in a minute, then it shouldn't be used for that decision.

[Brian Blessed]

The first Watford goal shouldn’t have stood as the goal scorer had a foot in the box when the keeper released the ball. But it was up to the on field refs to see it. VAR couldn’t review because it was a restart. But VAR is supposed to review every goal.

I honestly have no idea wtf is going on.

[PhaseOfPlay]

The first Watford goal shouldn’t have stood as the goal scorer had a foot in the box when the keeper released the ball. But it was up to the on field refs to see it. VAR couldn’t review because it was a restart. But VAR is supposed to review every goal.

I honestly have no idea wtf is going on.

I'm not sure he did. Just watched it again and he was on the line right until the ball was kicked.

[Brian Blessed]

I’m just going by what the commentator said, after talking to the VAR people.

[PhaseOfPlay]

I’m just going by what the commentator said, after talking to the VAR people.

I do hope commentators aren't having access to the VAR people in-game!

[Brian Blessed]

I’m sure someone fed him the info from the .

[LovelyCushionedHeader]

Another faultless day for the referees. Well done Mike.

[4pool]

I do hope commentators aren't having access to the VAR people in-game!

They are supposed to be told what VAR is checking for. But not the actual conversation between officials.

[Anthony]

I'm not sure he did. Just watched it again and he was on the line right until the ball was kicked.

Isn't on the line in the box? Seem to remember this from a Penalty discussion before.

[PhaseOfPlay]

They are supposed to be told what VAR is checking for. But not the actual conversation between officials.

There must be an easier way to broadcast that information. Some sort of radiophonic way of transmitting that data over a tv broadcast for everyone to hear, in a passive manner, without having to directly communicate with the VAR refs.

There must be some way.

Nope, I got nothing.

[PhaseOfPlay]

Isn't on the line in the box? Seem to remember this from a Penalty discussion before.

Possibly. But there's also this:

If, when a goal kick is taken, any opponents are inside the penalty area because they did not have time to leave, the referee allows play to continue

But looking at a still of AFTER the ball is kicked, it doesn't look like he was in the box at all at the kick (I can't find an angle for the moment before the kick):

[4pool]

To bad VAR wasn't around when Mike Riley was ref..in case you forgot.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=77&v=mM747L9Wf8M

100% correct with all his decisions. VAR would have justified them.   

[rob1966]

Possibly. But there's also this:

But looking at a still of AFTER the ball is kicked, it doesn't look like he was in the box at all at the kick (I can't find an angle for the moment before the kick):

This is just before the keeper kicks it - in the box. How the blind bastards missed it I'll never know. Can I be a VAR ref please?

[classycarra]

This is just before the keeper kicks it - in the box. How the blind bastards missed it I'll never know. Can I be a VAR ref please?

It's not like Hawkeye to mess up with straight lines.


(source)

[Charlie Adams fried egg]

I have to say I am totally confused by the way the Premier League has utilised VAR.
Given the nonsense spouted by Walton, where does subjectivity end and clear and obvious begin. If as was possible at the weekend, he was unsighted and didn't see the extent of the foul, how can subjectivity be used as a reason for not giving a pen?

On the other hand, if he saw the incident and decided that wasn't a pen, then there needs to be a fundamental rethink on what constitutes a foul.

When you look at some of the pens that have been given for grappling in the box at set pieces, at the very least the club deserves an explanation of why that wasn't given by either the ref, the lino or the VAR.
How we can have a linesman overruling the ref like he did in that infamous Spurs game, then a linesman in a similar position that didn't see anything is astonishing.

It's actually getting worse.

[rob1966]

It's not like Hawkeye to mess up with straight lines.


(source)

The groundsman has provided a perfectly straight line for them this time. Shame Mr Magoo was reviewing the footage.

[classycarra]

The groundsman has provided a perfectly straight line for them this time. Shame Mr Magoo was reviewing the footage.

True enough, I can't fault the tech for this one. Luckily it's not their dodgy offside tech. It's possible the ref wasn't shown a few replays that show the foot position, but unlikely.

At least it's something they've been consistently awful on, like with the encroachment during the City/West Ham penalty

[rob1966]

True enough, I can't fault the tech for this one. Luckily it's not their dodgy offside tech. It's possible the ref wasn't shown a few replays that show the foot position, but unlikely.

At least it's something they've been consistently awful on, like with the encroachment during the City/West Ham penalty

It is beyond unacceptable when two Premier League referees, watching a huge TV screen, can't see that, they really should not be officials based on that. They will have checked it, they went all the way back to the half way line challenge for Aubameyang's opener to check the tackle, so they will have checked for encroachment. The camera angle is absolutely perfect. All they have to do is one looks at the Watford player and nothing else, the other at Leno and nothing else and then the first one to say now when either the foot goes in the box, or the ball is kicked lets them know if it is a goal or not.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Another faultless day for the referees. Well done Mike.

[PhaseOfPlay]

His foot seems on the line to me, though. The laws, as written, state "inside the penalty area" without any clarification about what "inside" means.

Plus, there is also the scope for the referee to think that Arsenal took the goalkick "quickly", which is now treated like a quick free kick, in that if you mess it up, tough luck.

I'm not sure there was any clear error here - the Watford player wasn't "clearly" inside the area looking to gain an advantage. He moved as soon as the ball was touched, and intercepted a bad pass, from which Watford scored.

[rob1966]

His foot seems on the line to me, though. The laws, as written, state "inside the penalty area" without any clarification about what "inside" means.

Plus, there is also the scope for the referee to think that Arsenal took the goalkick "quickly", which is now treated like a quick free kick, in that if you mess it up, tough luck.

I'm not sure there was any clear error here - the Watford player wasn't "clearly" inside the area looking to gain an advantage. He moved as soon as the ball was touched, and intercepted a bad pass, from which Watford scored.

I watched it this morning, he was walking along the line for a good few seconds, you could see he was trying to stay out of the box and then he moved to his left, but he went too early, just before Leno makes the pass. It isn't a clear and obvious error at full speed in the ground, but as I no longer have a fucking clue what these fuckwits are using VAR for, then, as they check every goal, I assume they are now looking for infringements?

[PhaseOfPlay]

I watched it this morning, he was walking along the line for a good few seconds, you could see he was trying to stay out of the box and then he moved to his left, but he went too early, just before Leno makes the pass. It isn't a clear and obvious error at full speed in the ground, but as I no longer have a fucking clue what these fuckwits are using VAR for, then, as they check every goal, I assume they are now looking for infringements?

True, but there was an IFAB circular to referees about the new rules that stated that goal kicks should be treated with the same criteria as free kicks, so in that instance, he was close enough to the line, and far enough away from the ball, that the few centimetres he may have been inside the area at the moment of the kick, would not be anything considered an infraction. It also comes down to how quickly the refs considered Arsenal to have taken the kick. If they were deemed to have taken it quickly, then it doesn't matter, as the attackers are covered for this. That boils down to the subjective opinion of the referee.

My main issue with VAR is purely idealistic, in that I like that the laws of the game previously were the same for all competitive level 11v11 games world wide. But one of the things I'm hating about it is that it now makes people look at the letter of the law rather than the spirit of the law, which was the main driver behind the simplicity of the 17 LOTG. When we start looking at millimetre infractions, or "any contact is a foul", we're going to end up sanitizing the game beyond recognition.

[rob1966]

True, but there was an IFAB circular to referees about the new rules that stated that goal kicks should be treated with the same criteria as free kicks, so in that instance, he was close enough to the line, and far enough away from the ball, that the few centimetres he may have been inside the area at the moment of the kick, would not be anything considered an infraction. It also comes down to how quickly the refs considered Arsenal to have taken the kick. If they were deemed to have taken it quickly, then it doesn't matter, as the attackers are covered for this. That boils down to the subjective opinion of the referee.

My main issue with VAR is purely idealistic, in that I like that the laws of the game previously were the same for all competitive level 11v11 games world wide. But one of the things I'm hating about it is that it now makes people look at the letter of the law rather than the spirit of the law, which was the main driver behind the simplicity of the 17 LOTG. When we start looking at millimetre infractions, or "any contact is a foul", we're going to end up sanitizing the game beyond recognition.

Thanks for clearing that up, doesn't help when Sky Sports are saying the goal shouldn't have stood. Personally I'm glad it did stand, it was a great bit of play by the attacker and he deserved the goal.

I fully get why you have an issue with VAR, I don't want it to change the way the game is played and at the end of the day it is a contact sport, just because someone slight touches your leg doesn't mean you should get a foul for it.

[lamonti]

My guess is that the PL refs have seen the criticism various system implementations have gotten and are trying to be light-touch in using it, to avoid what they thought would be the biggest avenue of criticism, i.e. it disrupting the game and getting things wrong, which is what mainly came in the news from VAR's use in other leagues. And I think avoiding criticism is the main goal of every referee in the Premier League except for Michael Oliver.

Someone on TAW put it well, it was something to the effect of "I thought it would be good because it would take it out of the hands the Premier League refs, then I realised it was just more Premier League refs, I realised it would never work."

In my opinion, the concept of VAR constantly reviewing throughout is a fundamental flaw in the system that undermines the authority of the referee and lowers their standards, and I reckon (maybe hope) that it will eventually move to a challenge system where decisions are only reviewed when asked for by one team, or in rare cases a referee themselves.

Ideally they'd just ditch it and get on with football but I can't see them taking that big a step back.

[4pool]

To bad VAR wasn't around when Mike Riley was ref..in case you forgot.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=77&v=mM747L9Wf8M

100% correct with all his decisions. VAR would have justified them.   

No comments yet on the highlights of Mike Riley and his Reffing in this match.

Shame that...

[rob1966]

What is the fucking point when a blatant dive isn't seen? Fuck clear and obvious, it was clear it was a dive at full speed, the c*nt cheated.

[Sudden Death Draft Loser]

So anyone got any idea just what the point of  VAR is

 

[reddebs]

The point is to not make referees look like tits.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

[Red-Soldier]

What's the point of having VAR when you can dive and get a penalty???

[Peabee]

I think I’m done with football now. VAR is ruining games.

[Kenny's Jacket]

The point is to not make referees look like tits.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

Its fucking disgusting

[TepidT2O]

What's the point of having VAR when you can dive and get a penalty???

Yep.  It’s absurd.

[CraigDS]

I think I’m done with football now. VAR is ruining games.

It’s having no effect is the issue.

If it’s obvious it’s not a pen it should be able to overrule the ref. Instead UEFA have set it up so once again refs can’t be shown to be wrong.

It’s pointless.

[Roughie Scouse]

So anyone got any idea just what the point of  VAR is

 

Should have had a pen at weekend v Newcastle, not a pen tonight, just before should have had a corner. What’s he point

[PhaseOfPlay]

It’s having no effect is the issue.

If it’s obvious it’s not a pen it should be able to overrule the ref. Instead UEFA have set it up so once again refs can’t be shown to be wrong.

It’s pointless.

Nothing to do with UEFA.

And you can't have the VAR overrule the centre ref. The centre ref is the most important one in the whole process.

[El Lobo]

It’s having no effect is the issue.

If it’s obvious it’s not a pen it should be able to overrule the ref. Instead UEFA have set it up so once again refs can’t be shown to be wrong.

It’s pointless.

Yup.

They’ve literally taken it to ‘we’ll use it for offsides...and that’s it’. Which is fine, just say that. Fuck off this ridiculous idea of ‘clear and obvious errors’ being over turned when clear and obvious errors are being reviewed and ignored.

[Dull Tools]

Was always going to be the problem with VAR. Anyone can make an argument for anything being a penalty.

Like the tits in the BT studio saying the was a slight bit of contact even though it is clear Callejon is already half way down and sticks his leg out to make contact.

Should just be for offsides and whether the ball is inside/outside the box.

[Barneylfc∗]

Nothing to do with UEFA.

And you can't have the VAR overrule the centre ref. The centre ref is the most important one in the whole process.

But the VAR can tell the ref they think he might have made a mistake, which they haven't in 2 consecutive games for us. Craig didn't once say the VAR can or even should have overruled the ref on the pitch.

[Alan_X]

Is any prick still arguing that VAR is worth a wank?

It’s fucking shite.