Author Topic: Luis Suarez - FA guilty charge and LFC Statement (*)  (Read 888073 times)

Offline Enders

  • Game. Has a thing for Edward Colanderhands
  • No new LFC topics
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,756
  • Allez! Allez! Allez!
Re: Luis Suarez - FA guilty charge and LFC Statement (*)
« Reply #7080 on: December 23, 2011, 05:24:52 pm »
I know exactly how you feel.
“He was a very good customer. He was just the three bottles of semi-skimmed. They didn’t have to be placed zonally on his step or anything. He was happy to have a chat and he would always look after you at Christmas.”

Offline MichaelA

  • MasterBaker, honey-trapper and 'concerned neighbour'. Beyond The Pale. Vermin on the ridiculous. Would love to leave Ashley Cole gasping for air. Dupe Snoop Extraordinaire. RAWK MARTYR #1. The proud owner of a new lower case a. Mickey Two Sheds.
  • RAWK Staff.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 29,365
  • At the Academy
  • Super Title: MichaelA
Re: Luis Suarez - FA guilty charge and LFC Statement (*)
« Reply #7081 on: December 23, 2011, 05:25:21 pm »
It's a clusterfuck.

I'm certain that it's going to blow up in the faces of a lot of people. This will go to court. Organisations and individuals will have to print and/or issue grovelling, mealy mouthed apologies. But it will be too late, because our player and our club have been quite wilfully tarnished in a media witch hunt.

At the risk of sounding like Andy@Allerton, we've been on the end of this for twenty fucking years. The football establishment and their media cronies despise Liverpool Football Club because we've never been inside their shitty coterie of the PFA, the LMA and the back slapping bon homie of Ferguson's after match drinkies. 

The rush to judgement has been obscene, and the FA are culpable for seriously misjudging their handling of the entire affair, but they're effectively in the pocket of the power brokers within the game. We're not.   

Offline redrockydennis

  • Annie Wilkes
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,666
  • gonna paint me jarg wheelie bin purple
Re: Luis Suarez - FA guilty charge and LFC Statement (*)
« Reply #7082 on: December 23, 2011, 05:25:44 pm »
Congratulations to the FA for forcing the most fucked up situation I can recall seeing in a long time. It's got it all, race, hate, love, threats of violence, the meeja having a field day, fuck me it's like rupert murdochs wet dream.
"Football is a simple game based on the giving and taking of passes,
of controlling the ball and of making yourself available to receive a pass.
It is terribly simple."

Offline Snail

  • Disgusted by you. Snail murdering S h e e p. Ms Soppy Twat Potty Mouth. The Annabel Chong of RAWK's X-Factor. Likes giving Sir Cliff of Richard one.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 24,959
  • How are we
Re: Luis Suarez - FA guilty charge and LFC Statement (*)
« Reply #7083 on: December 23, 2011, 05:27:43 pm »
Glen Johnson's black mate. He's got to give his reasons to the world, because he's black. You can't have a black man supporting someone who has made reference to someone elses skin colour. It's racist. A black man should know better.

Glen Johnson has to justify himself to them because of his skin colour. Suarez is the racist one.

Said the same thing yesterday mate. The utter stupidity of it all makes me want to stick forks in my eyes.

Offline GIPPO77

  • No new LFC topics
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,257
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Brilliant Suarez article from goal.com
« Reply #7084 on: December 23, 2011, 05:27:52 pm »
After reading the opening article it seems to me its actually the FA who are being racist.
YNWA

Offline kennedy81

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 24,282
Re: Luis Suarez - FA guilty charge and LFC Statement (*)
« Reply #7085 on: December 23, 2011, 05:28:57 pm »
anyone can see the Suarez never in tended to be racist and isn't racist.
the irony is, that the FA have shown an utter disregard and intolerance for a cultural difference, when this is exactly what the fight against racism and discrimination should be all about.

if the FA and English establishment want to lecture people about racism, they should look closer to home.
who remembers a black English manager?
or a black head of the FA?
or a black Prime Minister?

I also suspect there is more than a hint of "let's show Johnny Foreigner how we do things round here" going on.
ever since Suarez handled the ball on the line at the world cup, the English media have had it in for him,
echoes of Maradonna '86 and the hand of god etc.
Suarez's attempts at diving haven't helped either, again arguably a cultural difference (one man's cheating vs another man's clever play).
now they have their pound of flesh and they're loving it.

Offline SpionBob

  • I have a signed Kenny Dalglish shirt on my wall-is that a bit gay?
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,680
  • WITH JURGEN kLOPP WE WON IT 6 TIMES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Re: Luis Suarez - FA guilty charge and LFC Statement (*)
« Reply #7086 on: December 23, 2011, 05:28:58 pm »
Here's a suggestion - as far as I'm aware, Suarez didn't use the term 'coloured' towards Evra so there's really no need to keep picking over what can and can't be said.
I think the point is that if British born citizens such as Alan Hansen and myself don't know what adjectives are PC and what are not then how is Suarez who has lived here less than a year and speaks mainly in Spanish to know?
Public enemy number one: On the RAWK watch list for offering alternative views, supporting Rafa and abusing ill informed WUMS with dubious agendas. Where's the crime in that? Victim of self-important mod with itchy finger.

Offline Tony19:6

  • Begets John 3:16
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 7,308
  • Born and Bred
Re: Media double standards on racism #2134 - The Daily Mail
« Reply #7087 on: December 23, 2011, 05:29:35 pm »
Quick one.

Does Kenny still write for the Mail on Sunday?
A Great man once said...
"Football is a simple game based on the giving and taking of passes, of controlling the ball and of making yourself available to receive a pass.
It is terribly simple."

http://twitter.com/Tony19_6

Offline reddd10

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,540
Re: Reina leaps to defence of Suarez - ESPN
« Reply #7088 on: December 23, 2011, 05:31:06 pm »
If you notice, he's got a bit of a scouse twang to his voice when he says "you know" in interviews.

And saying "You'll never walk alone mate!". Boss Pepe!

Offline Juan Loco

  • down in Acapulco. LIkes 'em salty and succulent, the wee lambies!
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 35,902
  • We've got our valuation and we're sticking to it
Re: Luis Suarez - FA guilty charge and LFC Statement (*)
« Reply #7089 on: December 23, 2011, 05:32:04 pm »
Said the same thing yesterday mate. The utter stupidity of it all makes me want to stick forks in my eyes.

If it wasn't so raw I'd find some of it absolutely hysterical.

HOW DARE A BLACK PLAYER SUPPORT SOMEONE WHO IS GUILTY OF RACISM (although, y'know, we haven't actually seen the evidence. We're just taking the word of a governing body who the rest of the time we're happy to slaughter due to their incompetence... and because it makes good copy). HE'S BLACK! HE CAN'T DO THAT! HOW CAN A BLACK PLAYER SUPPORT A RACIST!?

The mind boggles.
"It's the football philosophy that counts, not the system."

A fully signed-up member of SPAS
The Stuart Pearce Apologist Society

Offline kennedy81

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 24,282
Re: Luis Suarez - FA guilty charge and LFC Statement (*)
« Reply #7090 on: December 23, 2011, 05:32:18 pm »
as for Talk-shite radio...
who wants to wager that it isn't most EDL members favourite station.
along with those red-top rags, who no doubt are having a field day with all this.

Offline Stussy

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 17,266
  • ...we had dreams and songs to sing...
Re: Luis Suarez - FA guilty charge and LFC Statement (*)
« Reply #7091 on: December 23, 2011, 05:33:09 pm »
Said the same thing yesterday mate. The utter stupidity of it all makes me want to stick forks in my eyes.

They are effectively calling Glen an 'Uncle Tom' which is itself a racial slur and a horrible thing to say.

"My idea was to build Liverpool into a bastion of invincibility. Napoleon had that idea. He wanted to conquer the bloody world. I wanted Liverpool to be untouchable. My idea was to build Liverpool up and up until eventually everyone would have to submit and give in."

Offline Juan Loco

  • down in Acapulco. LIkes 'em salty and succulent, the wee lambies!
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 35,902
  • We've got our valuation and we're sticking to it
Re: Media double standards on racism #2134 - The Daily Mail
« Reply #7092 on: December 23, 2011, 05:33:23 pm »
Quick one.

Does Kenny still write for the Mail on Sunday?

Think he stopped at the end of last season mate.
"It's the football philosophy that counts, not the system."

A fully signed-up member of SPAS
The Stuart Pearce Apologist Society

Offline KennyDaggers

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,299
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Luis Suarez - FA guilty charge and LFC Statement (*)
« Reply #7093 on: December 23, 2011, 05:34:46 pm »
anyone can see the Suarez never in tended to be racist and isn't racist.

Why can we?

He's been found guilty of making an offensive comment, until we see the evidence we haven't got a clue, we don't even know what he's admitted to saying. It should of been made available when the decision was released.

Offline Dr Manhattan

  • I discovered and developed fucktron. That's right, me. It's my word and, frankly, anyone trying to take credit for it is nothing short of a fucktron.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 20,345
  • Officially the 7th best poster you'll see on here.
Re: Luis Suarez - FA guilty charge and LFC Statement (*)
« Reply #7094 on: December 23, 2011, 05:35:20 pm »
I'm certain that it's going to blow up in the faces of a lot of people. This will go to court. Organisations and individuals will have to print and/or issue grovelling, mealy mouthed apologies. But it will be too late, because our player and our club have been quite wilfully tarnished in a media witch hunt.

I agree, I've been saying the same since the initial response a few days ago. Unfortunately it's going to take a long long time and, like you say, it'll be too late.
I trust the King, but if we lose a few more on the trot now - he may have to step aside, and we have to purchase another manager in the middle of the season. If we are relegated, this could be the end of our ambitions to win any title the next 100 years.

Offline KennyDaggers

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,299
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Luis Suarez - FA guilty charge and LFC Statement (*)
« Reply #7095 on: December 23, 2011, 05:37:22 pm »
Talksport shouldn't even be allowed to hold debates like this at the moment whilst there's a possibility of an appeal, this is just aggrevating the situation.

Offline Shanks1965

  • SOS member 981
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,705
  • 96 friends who we all miss...
Re: Luis Suarez - FA guilty charge and LFC Statement (*)
« Reply #7096 on: December 23, 2011, 05:37:47 pm »
Black's fine.  I think 'coloured' is not acceptable now because it suggests a group who are white, then the rest, who are 'coloured'.
I used to have a bloke working for me as a team leader, lived in Salford, his name was Alf. Came from Jamaica. Loverly lad and a good worker. Made him team leader and he says to this day it was one of the proudest days in his life.

A while back a bloke came into the office looking for him so i pointed him out as "the bloke over there with the blue shirt". When the guy said which one I said "the one sat next to the plant". When he said there are two of them I said "the one on the phone". When he walked away a mate said "why didnt you just say the black lad?"

Truth is I'd have been more likely to say coloured than black. Suppose that makes me a bit racist then.
Seen more titles than he can remember...

Offline kennedy81

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 24,282
Re: Media double standards on racism #2134 - The Daily Mail
« Reply #7097 on: December 23, 2011, 05:38:20 pm »
How?

The above is 3 separate accounts from 3 separate sources albeit through the same shithole of a paper. A paper which has always existed solely to make money by writing what your average nobhead wants to read. Plus I've got no affiliation whatsoever with that paper so if anything I'd be a bit put off if they weren't being hypocritical fuckers, it just confirms what I think of them. It's not 'worse' because for me they're behaving exactly to script.

What has gone on in here however from some Liverpool supporters is thinly-veiled racism hiding behind a defence of Suarez. To the point where it's not even about the issue at hand, more about people pretending that they thought it's still ok to say xxxxxxx because they always called Dave that when they were kids and he didn't seem to mind. It's fucking embarrassing and I just hope any outsiders don't take it as representative of the club or the city as a whole.

you're completely missing the point.
this isn't about using words that were ok years ago and saying so-and-so never minded then, it's totally different.
I haven't seen anyone on here using this a veil to hide their racist intentions, and if they were they would be hounded out in no time.
If you have, then I suggest you report it to the mods and let them deal with it, before throwing accusations around and talking shite.

Offline Bouncer

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Kopite
  • ******
  • Posts: 685
  • "It's not my ego, it's my responsibility" Benitez
Re: Luis Suarez - FA guilty charge and LFC Statement (*)
« Reply #7098 on: December 23, 2011, 05:39:02 pm »
Rather sheepishly I hold my hand up for that charge. Im 54 and had no idea that coloured was now considered offensive, none at all. I consider myself to be aware of current affairs I read a lot and watch documentary type TV not soaps and amateur/celeb competitions. Given the current climate I wonder what else I dont know and might get shot for?


Here here mate ... Fucks me right off all these labels and their currency ... I don't give an damn what background somebody is ....  Being a shitehawk is something your born to be no matter what colour your skin or shirt, what place you hail from or what belief system you adhere to ...
Gatusso says that Liverpool play too many long balls?

I don’t think he watches many Liverpool games, the same way I don’t watch many Milan games. (Rafa)

Offline Juan Loco

  • down in Acapulco. LIkes 'em salty and succulent, the wee lambies!
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 35,902
  • We've got our valuation and we're sticking to it
Re: Luis Suarez - FA guilty charge and LFC Statement (*)
« Reply #7099 on: December 23, 2011, 05:39:40 pm »
Why can we?

He's been found guilty of making an offensive comment, until we see the evidence we haven't got a clue, we don't even know what he's admitted to saying. It should of been made available when the decision was released.


The club knows what he said though, and their response is pretty bloody telling.

3 parties will know what's happened during the process:

Our club
The independent panel
United.

United have, unsurprisingly, bee quiet about it. That's not a criticism of them either. They shouldn't need to comment on it.

So we've got two parties who've seen the evidence left.

One has immediately come out in the strongest possible terms and disagreed with the decision and made statements, visual and strongly worded, in defence of Suarez and not recognising the verdict.

The other party hasn't released any evidence and it's all a bit vague the timeline over which they intend to finally release it.

The fact that they haven't done so immediately is, according to one lawyer, a fairly damning indictment of the process.
"It's the football philosophy that counts, not the system."

A fully signed-up member of SPAS
The Stuart Pearce Apologist Society

Offline horne

  • y
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,526
  • through a storm
Re: Luis Suarez - FA guilty charge and LFC Statement (*)
« Reply #7100 on: December 23, 2011, 05:40:10 pm »
everyone of those who are having a pop at suarez , i bet have upset someone in a heated moment and although not actually meaning to the word what they have said...theyve said it. hypocritical is the best word i can think of to describe whats going on out there.
muslims , pakistani blacks any other religion creed or colour....fans of a different team etc....every one of us and them could have been pulled over something in our life time....the difference here is someones gone off and cried  about it and caused what to me seems a totally unfair outcome.
evra has admitted to dishing it out to suarez first and give him his due...he said he didnt hear it....whearas evra after causing the rage , has done the opposite....thats a bit shit isnt it?....but thats evera....hes had a chip on his shoulder for a while about this...everyone else chucked it out of court....but the fa
any conflict out there needs somone to turn round and say sorry i was wrong i didnt mean that it was stress of the moment ,on reflection , i didnt really mean that to the word.
they shake hands and move on all for the better....but not this fella....he really is one vindictive little shit .....fergy is no better....if it was anything other than two different coloured skins it would have been soughted out in a much friendlier way and with common sense...but that didnt suit fergie because he wouldnt be getting any profit from the situation would he....fuel on the fire springs to mind here....outragious management by him and the fa....i think this might come back to haunt him when it all comes out in the wash
its created what the original complaint was all about
success = the absence of the fear of failure

Offline Houlliers goal face

  • Kopite
  • *****
  • Posts: 539
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Luis Suarez - FA guilty charge and LFC Statement (*)
« Reply #7101 on: December 23, 2011, 05:42:27 pm »
Talksport shouldn't even be allowed to hold debates like this at the moment whilst there's a possibility of an appeal, this is just aggrevating the situation.

Talksport should be asking themselves why Ferguson hasn't seized the opportunity to stick the knife into Liverpool today.

Is it because he has suddenly become dignified and respectful??? Or does he realise that the dynamics of this whole situation could flip on it's head.

I know which one I'm leaning towards.

Offline Shanks1965

  • SOS member 981
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,705
  • 96 friends who we all miss...
Re: Luis Suarez - FA guilty charge and LFC Statement (*)
« Reply #7102 on: December 23, 2011, 05:42:43 pm »
Rather sheepishly I hold my hand up for that charge. Im 54 and had no idea that coloured was now considered offensive, none at all. I consider myself to be aware of current affairs I read a lot and watch documentary type TV not soaps and amateur/celeb competitions. Given the current climate I wonder what else I dont know and might get shot for?
Ditto
Seen more titles than he can remember...

Offline Bouncer

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Kopite
  • ******
  • Posts: 685
  • "It's not my ego, it's my responsibility" Benitez
Re: Luis Suarez - FA guilty charge and LFC Statement (*)
« Reply #7103 on: December 23, 2011, 05:42:46 pm »
I tuned in just to hear what we were up against ,and boy, we are up against it! What does Darren Gough know about Liverpool FC! Complete shite, won't be listening to it again. AND now a liverpool fan calling up saying he is withdrawing his support from liverpool fc!  :butt

When this is all over it will be a career defining moment for cundits and journalists like Gough and Durham ... They need to be pursued and held to account they are every bit as bad as the Mirror and should be unwelcome at Anfield
Gatusso says that Liverpool play too many long balls?

I don’t think he watches many Liverpool games, the same way I don’t watch many Milan games. (Rafa)

Offline Rococo

  • mo-sissoko
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,123
Re: Luis Suarez - FA guilty charge and LFC Statement (*)
« Reply #7104 on: December 23, 2011, 05:42:52 pm »
A genuine question I'm hoping someone can help me out with.

Would a rep from the PFA be present at a hearing of this nature?

Edit: the reason I ask is that I'd like to know if they are in possession of more of the facts than us

Offline AsianRed

  • Main Stander
  • ***
  • Posts: 169
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Luis Suarez - FA guilty charge and LFC Statement (*)
« Reply #7105 on: December 23, 2011, 05:43:55 pm »
have our owners made a statement seperate to the LFC statement? I would like to know John Henry's thoughts on all this.
A lot of football success is in the mind.
You must believe you are the best and then make sure
that you are. In my time at Anfield we always said we had
the best two teams on Merseyside,
Liverpool and Liverpool reserves. - Shankly 1913 - 1981

Mr Suarez Is Not A Racist!

Offline Rococo

  • mo-sissoko
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,123
Re: Luis Suarez - FA guilty charge and LFC Statement (*)
« Reply #7106 on: December 23, 2011, 05:44:59 pm »
have our owners made a statement seperate to the LFC statement? I would like to know John Henry's thoughts on all this.

Not that I know of.  The club statement is effectively their statement though

Offline Houlliers goal face

  • Kopite
  • *****
  • Posts: 539
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop

Offline Shanks1965

  • SOS member 981
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,705
  • 96 friends who we all miss...
Re: Luis Suarez - FA guilty charge and LFC Statement (*)
« Reply #7108 on: December 23, 2011, 05:46:37 pm »
Not that I know of.  The club statement is effectively their statement though
Well since they own the club it probably is. Would be interesting to hear Mr Henry comment on it though.
Seen more titles than he can remember...

Offline ThepepeReina

  • Space Cadet with a monoflatulent other half
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,790
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Luis Suarez - FA guilty charge and LFC Statement (*)
« Reply #7109 on: December 23, 2011, 05:47:18 pm »
Jus seen a lad walking through the trafford centre with a liverpool top with suarez on the back  8)
Gamertag - GOUGHYlegend
I aint got time to bleed

Offline 1021

  • AD MXXI
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,193
Re: Luis Suarez - FA guilty charge and LFC Statement (*)
« Reply #7110 on: December 23, 2011, 05:47:20 pm »
This is where we disagree slightly, Bob. Because make no mistake - Liverpool FC and Liverpool the City have been attacked from all fucking sides for more years than I care to remember. Every year there is another attack from a new source. It's been going on since Thatcher and her Cronies and even before then. Look at the average opinion of your average 'Englishman' about Liverpool.

I'm in a different boat than some because I'm not originally from Liverpool - I'm not a Scouser, but I've lived here for 25 years.

I have lived outside Liverpool and I live in it now and I see what is flung at the City and the Club and the people is utterly unfair. In many cases it's bigoted. I can see it and be objective about it because I always remember what was said about "Scousers" and their "City".

When I first worked in Liverpool I was literally terrified. I remembered all the papers and the press more or less saying everyone there was benefit scum, would kill you if they had the chance and were basically evil. I was terrified.

And then I came across the lovliest, friendliest people I'd personally met in the UK. I came to a vibrant City proud of its past and although in trouble financially proud of its future to come. I found warmth, decency, quiet brilliance and acceptance.

And I've lived here ever since.

And yet look around even now - the same shite about 'Scousers' the same shite about the City. The same shite about Liverpool FC.

I may not be a Scouser but I'm fucking proud of this place, it's people and both Clubs. I used to live in other places in England but if they don't like us then fuck them.

This has been going on for decades.

I know I'm a bit late to the party, but that is a great post Andy.
I got the Lucas thing wrong. Will be right on Henderson though. Play him RM, play him CM - Not good enough and never will be.

Offline Shanks1965

  • SOS member 981
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,705
  • 96 friends who we all miss...
Re: Luis Suarez - FA guilty charge and LFC Statement (*)
« Reply #7111 on: December 23, 2011, 05:47:38 pm »
Seen more titles than he can remember...

Offline Juan Loco

  • down in Acapulco. LIkes 'em salty and succulent, the wee lambies!
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 35,902
  • We've got our valuation and we're sticking to it
Re: Luis Suarez - FA guilty charge and LFC Statement (*)
« Reply #7112 on: December 23, 2011, 05:47:48 pm »
Rather sheepishly I hold my hand up for that charge. Im 54 and had no idea that coloured was now considered offensive, none at all. I consider myself to be aware of current affairs I read a lot and watch documentary type TV not soaps and amateur/celeb competitions. Given the current climate I wonder what else I dont know and might get shot for?

Mate, I'm 25 and I had no idea! I don't keep up with the correct nomenclature. Thankfully, if I've ever have said anything wrong, people have never mentioned it or taken it the wrong way because most people aren't out for blood like certain people have come across the last few days, needing a ritual sacrfice for the anti-racism campaign.
"It's the football philosophy that counts, not the system."

A fully signed-up member of SPAS
The Stuart Pearce Apologist Society

Offline Prince

  • Main Stander
  • ***
  • Posts: 162
Re: Luis Suarez - FA guilty charge and LFC Statement (*)
« Reply #7113 on: December 23, 2011, 05:48:43 pm »
The big problem for me is that the conversation between the two players took place in Spanish. Therefore if Suarez asked Evra ''Por Que negrito?'' how can we take a word that is not used in our culture or dialect and decide it is racist? If the word is not racist in Uruguay or the Spanish language what gives us the right to decide it is in England?

In the context of the conversation it has no racial meaning.

Had the conversation between the two players been in English it would be a different matter.

I fully expect to get banned for this despite the fact this is a genuine attempt to engage you all rather than WUM.

"Negrito" does not neccesarily carry the same reputation as "negro" or the other n words in our culture as it does in South America. That is understandable. It can be used as an objective and descriptive word akin to saying "Patrice Evra is black" and would carry no offence. Similarly, it can be used as affectionately like how the n word is used between some members of the black community in urban culture in the US. Using the word "negrito" is not neccesarily a racist word, but it certainly is a reference to skin colour. And any reference to skin colour can be used to racially abuse someone regardless depending on what context it is used in.

In the context of two opposition players arguing midway through a derby match, to competely rule out any intended offence is naive. If I tell someone to shut up for instance, and then turn around and say "why, black?" I would think that they are trying to annoy me through a completely unneccessary mention of skin colour, even with a term that is not offensive. If repeated I would be certain that offence is meant. Have any of you here had an argument with someone of a different race and then for clarification pointed out the colour of their skin? Why would you unless you wanted to rile them?

This is what Suarez has been found guilty of:

* Mr Suarez used insulting words towards Mr Evra during the match contrary to FA Rule E3(1);

* The insulting words used by Mr Suarez included a reference to Mr Evra's colour within the meaning of Rule E3(2)


Using the colour of someone else's skin to provoke a rise out of someone is racial abuse. That is not to say that Suarez is a racist, who has a phobia of black people and is a card carrying member of the BNP. Racial abuse can be used to gain an advantage on the pitch rather than reflecting underlying views. However, it is still wholly unacceptable and should be punished if proven, as is the case.

If you have any criticisms of what I have said, highlight it clearly. Hopefully I won't be banned on posting of any sort of non-consensus view.

Offline Shanks1965

  • SOS member 981
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,705
  • 96 friends who we all miss...
Re: Luis Suarez - FA guilty charge and LFC Statement (*)
« Reply #7114 on: December 23, 2011, 05:48:51 pm »
Jus seen a lad walking through the trafford centre with a liverpool top with suarez on the back  8)
What's Suarez doing in the Trafford Centre?
Seen more titles than he can remember...

Offline Juan Loco

  • down in Acapulco. LIkes 'em salty and succulent, the wee lambies!
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 35,902
  • We've got our valuation and we're sticking to it
Re: Luis Suarez - FA guilty charge and LFC Statement (*)
« Reply #7115 on: December 23, 2011, 05:49:04 pm »
have our owners made a statement seperate to the LFC statement? I would like to know John Henry's thoughts on all this.

I think it'd be a surprise if the club statement wasn't pushed through with their blessing. Given how they responded to the SOS previously it wouldn't surprise me if they, or their lawyers, were involved in drawing it up.
"It's the football philosophy that counts, not the system."

A fully signed-up member of SPAS
The Stuart Pearce Apologist Society

Offline Tony19:6

  • Begets John 3:16
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 7,308
  • Born and Bred
Re: Media double standards on racism #2134 - The Daily Mail
« Reply #7116 on: December 23, 2011, 05:50:51 pm »
Think he stopped at the end of last season mate.
Cheers Juan
A Great man once said...
"Football is a simple game based on the giving and taking of passes, of controlling the ball and of making yourself available to receive a pass.
It is terribly simple."

http://twitter.com/Tony19_6

Offline belfast-connection

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,664
Re: Luis Suarez - FA guilty charge and LFC Statement (*)
« Reply #7117 on: December 23, 2011, 05:51:05 pm »
The club knows what he said though, and their response is pretty bloody telling.

3 parties will know what's happened during the process:

Our club
The independent panel
United.

United have, unsurprisingly, bee quiet about it. That's not a criticism of them either. They shouldn't need to comment on it.

So we've got two parties who've seen the evidence left.

One has immediately come out in the strongest possible terms and disagreed with the decision and made statements, visual and strongly worded, in defence of Suarez and not recognising the verdict.

The other party hasn't released any evidence and it's all a bit vague the timeline over which they intend to finally release it.

The fact that they haven't done so immediately is, according to one lawyer, a fairly damning indictment of the process.

i wouldn't get too carried away over the idea that the process is damned just because they haven't released the evidence or given their reasons

it's not unusual that a judge would give a verdict and give reasons at a later date - I personally don't think it's necessarily good form and in complex cases a judge in my experience tends not to do it at all - he will reserve everything and produce a considered verdict with reasons

however there are occasions when emergencies arise and a verdict is necessary quickly, or where the merits of the case are so clear cut that a judge can give a verdict instantlly and fill in the details later

the fact that it's been done here doens't necessarily indicate the process was crooked

it possiblly indicates that there was an element of political pressure to get the verdict out quickly- after waiting 2 months it can hardly have been considered an emergency; and the length of time taken to consider even the verdict suggests that the merits weren't clear cut

what i find morally repugnant, although not necessarily legally a wrong, is that in a case such as this they morally shouldn't have given out a verdict and left us all guessing

i'm pretty sure they knew there would be an appeal - they say as  much in their statement - therefore what was the rush and why leave us all twisting in the wind and biting on suppositions and conjectures - it does begin to look like this is all part of the PR campaign against racism and more of a case of using Luis as a political football than a bona fide  exercise in providing a due process
HE SAID ‘BIGGER’ PEOPLE ‘BIGGER’. OK, MOVE ALONG PEOPLE, THERE’S NOTHING TO SEE HERE

Offline kennedy81

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 24,282
Re: Luis Suarez - FA guilty charge and LFC Statement (*)
« Reply #7118 on: December 23, 2011, 05:51:36 pm »
Why can we?

He's been found guilty of making an offensive comment, until we see the evidence we haven't got a clue, we don't even know what he's admitted to saying. It should of been made available when the decision was released.


I'm sure Kenny had a good chat with him and I'm sure Kenny would never back him so vehemently, if he even suspected for a minute he was being racist.
Until I see evidence to the contrary, that's good enough for me.
I thought we do know what he admitted to saying, and why the word he used can not be viewed as racist.
You're right, the evidence should have been made available sooner, I can only assume that is is so thin on the ground that they need time to pad it out and come up with a real justification for the ban.

Offline Pata

  • cake
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,449
Re: Luis Suarez - FA guilty charge and LFC Statement (*)
« Reply #7119 on: December 23, 2011, 05:52:35 pm »
I fully expect to get banned for this despite the fact this is a genuine attempt to engage you all rather than WUM.

"Negrito" does not neccesarily carry the same reputation as "negro" or the other n words in our culture as it does in South America. That is understandable. It can be used as an objective and descriptive word akin to saying "Patrice Evra is black" and would carry no offence. Similarly, it can be used as affectionately like how the n word is used between some members of the black community in urban culture in the US. Using the word "negrito" is not neccesarily a racist word, but it certainly is a reference to skin colour. And any reference to skin colour can be used to racially abuse someone regardless depending on what context it is used in.

In the context of two opposition players arguing midway through a derby match, to competely rule out any intended offence is naive. If I tell someone to shut up for instance, and then turn around and say "why, black?" I would think that they are trying to annoy me through a completely unneccessary mention of skin colour, even with a term that is not offensive. If repeated I would be certain that offence is meant. Have any of you here had an argument with someone of a different race and then for clarification pointed out the colour of their skin? Why would you unless you wanted to rile them?

This is what Suarez has been found guilty of:

* Mr Suarez used insulting words towards Mr Evra during the match contrary to FA Rule E3(1);

* The insulting words used by Mr Suarez included a reference to Mr Evra's colour within the meaning of Rule E3(2)


Using the colour of someone else's skin to provoke a rise out of someone is racial abuse. That is not to say that Suarez is a racist, who has a phobia of black people and is a card carrying member of the BNP. Racial abuse can be used to gain an advantage on the pitch rather than reflecting underlying views. However, it is still wholly unacceptable and should be punished if proven, as is the case.

If you have any criticisms of what I have said, highlight it clearly. Hopefully I won't be banned on posting of any sort of non-consensus view.

Yesterday had a little exchange with a mate of mine who used to live in Ecuador and travelled all over South America.

He reckons that in South America (note: NOT Spain) "sudaca" is not massively racist, but pejorative and "you'd say it with a hand over your mouth and a wink". He goes on to say that "sudaca" and "negrito" are probably morally equivalent and if viewed in the context of chit-chat on the pitch, would not carry any racists connotations in either direction.

And he agreed that the following scenario is perfectly feasible:
(Evra is not having the best of games against Suarez and is somewhat irritated)
"Don't touch me, you South American git"
"Why not, mate?"
(which would be followed by a cartoon-style cheeky grin and slo-mo poke to wind him up a bit more)

Of course, if it was stream of "negrito-negrito-negrito" or "negro-negro-negro" in Evra's face, that would be somewhat different.