Topic: Man Utd 1 Liverpool 0 post game

[Lord Roger Hunt]

I understand why we're pissed off with Webb but shouldn't we also be directing our venom at:

1. The Cheat - Berbatov? He's the one who conned the ref, he's brought disgrace and dishonesty to the game!

2. FatHead 2 and Southgate - for awarding Man of the Match to The Cheat - what does that teach the kids watching? Wankers.

So, OK, have a go at Webb but don't forget the who it was who conned him - the sly eyed get.......

[LFCKirstyLFC]

Minus the referee and a silly risk by Gerrard i have literally no complaints.

Kenny has already instilled a clear "solidarity" into the side.

Was chuffed to bits to see he'd dropped Konchesky straight away and started Aurelio. Brought Agger back, didn't play 4-4-2, wasn't scared to take Torres off after he was ineffective. Other than the result it was a top first game.

Martin Kelly was superb! And as for Reina and that string of saves?! What a keeper!

Everyone seems to have that same feeling of even though we lost to the Mancs it's ok because the real Liverpool are back, almost immediately and everything's going to be alright now.

Here's hoping to an exciting end to the season and a good Europa League run!

[GOONIESnvrSAYdie]

Try the transfer forum, see if there's an existing thread and post there.

Thanks mate, just trying to get to grips with forum life again.. Its been a while haha..

[RedRabbit]

2. FatHead 2 and Southgate - for awarding Man of the Match to The Cheat - what does that teach the kids watching? Wankers.

My two nieces were watching with me and the brother. One of 'em has al the Man U gear; hat, shirt trackie, gloves, etc. The lot. Anyway, she's never, ever watched a game. Until today. and that was only because I was there I think. As soon as she saw the dive and saw me arguing with the brother about it, herself and her sister went outside diving all over the garden. Had to laugh. 

I have high hopes for her though. With the way she was throwing herself about, I think she might get a game there in 10 years or so. and then; money, money, money!! 

Can't believe they gave it to him... thought ferdinand was their best player, maybe giggs, but both were well behind ours: Kelly.

[Schmidt]

Does anyone know why Konchesky wasn't in the squad? It seems a bit strange than Roy goes and suddenly he's not even on the bench.

[RedRabbit]

Does anyone know why Konchesky wasn't in the squad? It seems a bit strange than Roy goes and suddenly he's not even on the bench.

He's shit.

[KENNYS DUGLEASH]

Watched The highlights earlier.
Bebatov going nowhere and a definate dive ?
Stevie G ...Sorry lads both feet off the deck very reckless could have done some serious damage that is a red card all day.
Reina class class class... Class.
Real gutsy performance and an uphill battle with Webb in charge.
He is not a top referee?
1-0 Loss to a full strength Mancs at Home playing 12-10 for most of the game after a 2nd minute one goal head start.
Not the end of the world more like the start of a revival.

The league is the priority fook the FA Cup lads get back up that table and start pumping the dross you have been struggling against.

Top Support today outsung them muppets all day.

YNWA

[deadlybuzz]

Does anyone know why Konchesky wasn't in the squad? It seems a bit strange than Roy goes and suddenly he's not even on the bench.

According to Sky he was 'doubtful' for this game whatever it means and whatever you think it means or want it to mean.

[Schmidt]

He's shit.

He's definitely no Aurelio but not even putting him on the bench was a surprise, although it could quite easily be down to injury.

Personally I'm willing to give him another chance. Our whole defense suffered under Roys tactics and it seems a bit unfair to write him off based on a few months in which the whole team has struggled.

Regardless of what happens with him, it's nice to be able to trust the manager to make the correct decision for once.

[hesbighesred]

Can't believe they gave it to him... thought ferdinand was their best player, maybe giggs, but both were well behind ours: Kelly.

I'd really like to see him get a chance at CB, I honestly think him and Ayala have what it takes to be an absolutely monster pairing for years to come - or those two plus Agger if he can stay injury free. Even then on paper Ayala plus Kelly just looks awesome to me - both quality in the air, both very calm on and off the ball, Ayala isn't slow and Kelly has plenty of pace for a CB...I think both of them could be at least at Skrtel's level now let alone what they might be like when they reach Agger's age.

[redmark]

I'd really like to see him get a chance at CB, I honestly think him and Ayala have what it takes to be an absolutely monster pairing for years to come - or those two plus Agger if he can stay injury free. Even then on paper Ayala plus Kelly just looks awesome to me - both quality in the air, both very calm on and off the ball, Ayala isn't slow and Kelly has plenty of pace for a CB...I think both of them could be at least at Skrtel's level now let alone what they might be like when they reach Agger's age.

I can't think of another club with a set of young CB's to match Kelly, Ayala and Wilson.

[hesbighesred]

I can't think of another club with a set of young CB's to match Kelly, Ayala and Wilson.

...yep, exciting isn't it? and don't forget Wisdom 2 years behind Wilson, another one who looks like an absolute monster, and crucially it's not just his physical gifts any means which set him apart at his age. Coming to think of it Mavinga is no slouch either as a CB.

[bam09]

According to Sky he was 'doubtful' for this game whatever it means and whatever you think it means or want it to mean.

Only thing he's doubtful for is ever playing well.

[soberphobia]

I'd really like to see him get a chance at CB, I honestly think him and Ayala have what it takes to be an absolutely monster pairing for years to come - or those two plus Agger if he can stay injury free. Even then on paper Ayala plus Kelly just looks awesome to me - both quality in the air, both very calm on and off the ball, Ayala isn't slow and Kelly has plenty of pace for a CB...I think both of them could be at least at Skrtel's level now let alone what they might be like when they reach Agger's age.

Good point about Kelly. Think he is genuine quality. Ayala we will have to wait and see him play in big games against quality opposition before making a call but looks promising. Truth is it was a good game for our youngsters Kelly was our best player and Shelvey/Babel showed a bit. To be fair our squad looks a bit old and some of those older players look like they are no longer top 4 quality. Regardless of who is managing us next year i expect a majoe shakeup to the squad in the summer with a lot of old out and a bit of young in. Great to see a liverpool side bite and scrape and harass a game. Its been a while.

[danbylfc]

Top day , ive just got in switched SSN on and kennys interview after the game was on, thats how i like a manager to talk hes a patch above hodsgon , I know its pretty bad but the best bit was when they were saying there was 15 arrests and then went on about sinks in the toilets in the east stand being ripped off and offices being water damaged, it gave me a chuckle. Anyone else in the escort on the way back from OT to deansgate?

[RedRabbit]

I'd really like to see him get a chance at CB, I honestly think him and Ayala have what it takes to be an absolutely monster pairing for years to come - or those two plus Agger if he can stay injury free. Even then on paper Ayala plus Kelly just looks awesome to me - both quality in the air, both very calm on and off the ball, Ayala isn't slow and Kelly has plenty of pace for a CB...I think both of them could be at least at Skrtel's level now let alone what they might be like when they reach Agger's age.

Agreed.  He rarely goes to ground to tackle a player, just muscles them off it. Using his strength and positional sense. Think he'd make an awesome CB. He may be too young and inexperienced for someone to try him there just yet though. In saying that, one of the reasons I'm so happy Kennys back,is that I think if anyone will give the younger players a chance, and confidence boost, it's him. But, atm he's a very good RB and maybe should stay out there for a while to get  more match experience.
As good as Johnson is, atm I would feel more confident in Kelly there. And that's Englands right back I'm saying we should drop for him. I've honestly not been this excited about a young player at the club since Gerrard.

[Albert]

couldnt give two shits for the result just nice to see everybody working together for same cause again. Seriously cant tell you how amazing it was to see Kenny come out wearing his managers jacket what a fucking legend. Just listening to him after game took me back to being tenyears old again im totally captivated its like our club has been in mourning since he left THIS A GUY WHO DOESNT REGCOGISE FERGIES BULLSHIT HIERACHY AND NEVER WILL  absolute legend cmon kenny u make me remeber what it was like to stand on kop again god i can write anymore my words will never explain

[Black Bull Nova]

Does anyone know why Konchesky wasn't in the squad? It seems a bit strange than Roy goes and suddenly he's not even on the bench.

Because Roy and his mum are the only people who think he's anything other than crap. Will probably go down as the worst transfer dealing this club has ever made;

1-He's crap
2-His mother, mother, for god's sake hates scousers (and her mates)
3-We gave him a 4 year contract
4-He's ugly
5-He's probably close to John Terry
6-We gave Fulham two upcoming youngsters
7-We gave Fulham £4m
8-given that his family hates scousers we probably paid him a premium wage to come up here
9-he is a constant reminder of hodgson's mediocrity
10-no-one will buy him, he is unsaleable
11-We've got him for 4 years therefore
12-he's crap

Thanks Roy, indictment enough in itself, regardless of being Poulsened as well

[hesbighesred]

Good point about Kelly. Think he is genuine quality. Ayala we will have to wait and see him play in big games against quality opposition before making a call but looks promising. Truth is it was a good game for our youngsters Kelly was our best player and Shelvey/Babel showed a bit. To be fair our squad looks a bit old and some of those older players look like they are no longer top 4 quality. Regardless of who is managing us next year i expect a majoe shakeup to the squad in the summer with a lot of old out and a bit of young in. Great to see a liverpool side bite and scrape and harass a game. Its been a while.

At CB Ayala has already played pretty big games against solid opposition - certainly more so than Kelly has - but I totally agree with the rest of that.

In saying that, one of the reasons I'm so happy Kennys back,is that I think if anyone will give the younger players a chance, and confidence boost, it's him.

I don't think Kenny's going to 'do a Wenger', nor can I remember him ever having shown *that* much faith in youth (though I don't remember his Liverpool days at all really and mostly saw B'Burn/Newcastle through Match of the Day, though I did catch Newcastle quite often in cups etc etc), but I've certainly got more faith in him than Hodgson when it comes to proper development of young talent. I'd love to see Ayala/Kelly at CB if we can afford it in the 2nd leg of the next Europa tie, and for at least one of them to get a shout against the odd lesser prem side - especially at home.

[Red_Rich]

Shit result, but at least i have my club back again.

Is how I feel too.

Great to see us trying to pass it out from the back and not hoof it long every time, pressing by the forwards and plaenty of basic defending done well.  Keep this up reds and we'll soon move out of danger and up the league.

[Kahuna{=}Berger]

Mate I'm not suggesting a conspiracy at all.

I AM though mate  

I'm merely saying that I don't think Webb saw the incident therefore if he isn't sure what happened, how can he give a red? I stand to be corrected but the assistant referee didn't consult with him and advise on the situation.

I agree that it took ages for him to flash the card. My feeling was that he was influenced by Carrick rolling around on the ground. Your suggestion that the 4th official may have had a word in his ear having seen the replay is just as valid. But that begs the question, is that allowed? Either we use video technology or we don't.

I honestly don't think Carrick had anything to do with his decision. I think he was just waiting to give it and having not seen it, he had to wait on the 4th official to give cause (feet off the ground, studs raised) to give him the reason to pass Stevie his marching orders. Video technology is in play..... when it suits. That was my instinct on it anyway.

[DRice]

sickening to lose but just the sight of kenny on the sideline getting stuck in and the team getting stuck in and looking fucking balanced playing some good football brought a joy to the heart...what might have been if it wasnt for c*nt webb...grrrrr...ye dodged a bullet ye manc fucks

[RedRabbit]

I don't think Kenny's going to 'do a Wenger', nor can I remember him ever having shown *that* much faith in youth I'd love to see Ayala/Kelly at CB if we can afford it in the 2nd leg of the next Europa tie, and for at least one of them to get a shout against the odd lesser prem side - especially at home.

That's kinda what I meant. I don't remember him playing too many youth players either, but part of his job must be to instill confidence in the players and challenging them to do better for the club. One of the ways he can do this is showing the "first teamers" that they're going to have to work harder for their places, i.e., no one is gauranteed a slot. Giving the younger players, (Kelly/Ayala/Pacheco/Shelvey etc),   a shot and trusting them, will give the "first team" a shot in the arm. As you say, Hodgson would have sooner died, (paraphrased).
Would love to see Kelly/Ayala pairing in the EL too. Can't build for the future in the future, you have to start now.

[Alf]

I was glad about Agger & Aurelio being in the team and pleasantly surprised about Martin Kelly. Tall order having had a red card and a pen go against us but the players gave it their all which wasn't enough but there are positives to be taken out of today.

[stockdam]

Because Roy and his mum are the only people who think he's anything other than crap. Will probably go down as the worst transfer dealing this club has ever made;

1-He's crap
2-His mother, mother, for god's sake hates scousers (and her mates)
3-We gave him a 4 year contract
4-He's ugly
5-He's probably close to John Terry
6-We gave Fulham two upcoming youngsters
7-We gave Fulham £4m
8-given that his family hates scousers we probably paid him a premium wage to come up here
9-he is a constant reminder of hodgson's mediocrity
10-no-one will buy him, he is unsaleable
11-We've got him for 4 years therefore
12-he's crap

Thanks Roy, indictment enough in itself, regardless of being Poulsened as well

Rather pathetic.......there's no need lowering yourself to abusing the guy.

[stockdam]

I understand why we're pissed off with Webb but shouldn't we also be directing our venom at:

1. The Cheat - Berbatov? He's the one who conned the ref, he's brought disgrace and dishonesty to the game!

2. FatHead 2 and Southgate - for awarding Man of the Match to The Cheat - what does that teach the kids watching? Wankers.

So, OK, have a go at Webb but don't forget the who it was who conned him - the sly eyed get.......

Berbatov didn't do anything that most forwards do now. Agger did not need to stick his foot anywhere near him but having said that the referee must be CERTAIN that there was contact and from where he was he couldn't have seen any contact.

Berbatov held the ball much better than our forwards.

Kelly was my MOTM btw.

[stockdam]

During Pepe's string of saves one after the next, I noticed Evans pushed Pepe in the back just at his last save. Obviously Evans was trying to make Pepe fall and therefore miss the ball.........that to me should have been a yellow card but nobody saw it.

[hesbighesred]

That's kinda what I meant. I don't remember him playing too many youth players either, but part of his job must be to instill confidence in the players and challenging them to do better for the club. One of the ways he can do this is showing the "first teamers" that they're going to have to work harder for their places, i.e., no one is gauranteed a slot. Giving the younger players, (Kelly/Ayala/Pacheco/Shelvey etc),   a shot and trusting them, will give the "first team" a shot in the arm. As you say, Hodgson would have sooner died, (paraphrased).
Would love to see Kelly/Ayala pairing in the EL too. Can't build for the future in the future, you have to start now.

Yeah spot on, and Tomkins specifically talks about something like that in one of his books (Dynasty) in the Dalglish section - namely that while Dalglish never 'rotated' in the modern sense he was ahead of his time in terms of doing exactly what you describe - occasionally making one or two changes, even to established players, to freshen things up and keep people on their toes - he also named teams only just before kick off like Rafa did as well.

[RedRabbit]

Yeah spot on, and Tomkins specifically talks about something like that in one of his books (Dynasty) in the Dalglish section - namely that while Dalglish never 'rotated' in the modern sense he was ahead of his time in terms of doing exactly what you describe - occasionally making one or two changes, even to established players, to freshen things up and keep people on their toes - he also named teams only just before kick off like Rafa did as well.

Did he. Fucking hell I'm chuffed at that.   
Never read his books only some of his posts/articles that get on here. But I think he's usually spot on. Which shocks me to think I think the same as him. I usually talk a load of bollocks. 

Must get it now.

[gritsvanilla]

Berbatov didn't do anything that most forwards do now. Agger did not need to stick his foot anywhere near him but having said that the referee must be CERTAIN that there was contact and from where he was he couldn't have seen any contact.

Berbatov held the ball much better than our forwards.

Kelly was my MOTM btw.

You're right Berbatov only did what most forwards do nowadays, doesn't make it right though does it and it is seriously ruining the beautiful game, how many more of these rank bad decisions are we as football fans to suffer before something is done about it, christ the Mancs practically won a title on the back of such decisions a couple of seasons back. It's supposed to be a sport where sporting excellence is rewarded, instead what i see is a bunch of cheats constantly benefitting whilst the FA sits on it's hands.

Any sort of cheating in sport should be eradicated as it brings the sport into serious disrepute.

[hesbighesred]

Did he. Fucking hell I'm chuffed at that.   
Never read his books only some of his posts/articles that get on here. But I think he's usually spot on. Which shocks me to think I think the same as him. I usually talk a load of bollocks. 

Must get it now.

Hehehe, do get it though, it's a top book, it really is - tries to find a sensible way to compare the legacies of every manager since Souness and has really interesting insight into the reigns of each one up to and including Rafa.

[bepoq]

The direction of the challenge and the contact or lack of is, according to the rules, pretty much irrelevant. The big difference is how both players went into it, Carrick was on the floor the whole time, and led with one foot, studs down - perhaps dodgy but not dangerous, Gerrard went in with both feet off the ground and once he did that, whether he made contact or not, whether it was 50/50 or not and whether Rafael should have been booked/sent off or not, he was committing a red cardable offence and inviting Webb to make the correct decision. Yes, Webb got shitloads of other things 'wrong' as he always does against Utd especially at OT, but judged on it's own merits a good ref should always be giving the kind of challenge Gerrard made as a red, just like a good ref should always give a red for an elbow or a professional foul etc etc. The rules are very clear on it AFAIK.

You can debate Webb, you can debate the circumstances around it but the actual challenge Gerrard made is a red card offence whether he touches the ball/player or not. Carrick didn't go into it the same way, and his wasn't a red card offence - it wasn't like Fellaini Vs Kyrgiakos last season where they both should have been sent off, for example.

Just did a quick look up, and the laws say the following - seems to be direction is very relevant (see bolded bit) - but maybe there is something else elsewhere:

118
Serious foul play

Any player who lunges at an opponent in challenging for the ball from the
front, from the side or from behind using one or both legs, with excessive force
and endangering the safety of an opponent is guilty of serious foul play.

[Zanchent]

Haven't seen them - Was it a pen and was it a red?

And how did we sound from the TV?

The main thing I'll take from the day is that Manchester is a massively vile shithole full of odd c*nts

[Albert]

bloody hell we are back!!! long live the king                                                             

[harleydanger]

I AM though mate  
I honestly don't think Carrick had anything to do with his decision. I think he was just waiting to give it and having not seen it, he had to wait on the 4th official to give cause (feet off the ground, studs raised) to give him the reason to pass Stevie his marching orders. Video technology is in play..... when it suits. That was my instinct on it anyway.

Kenny's reaction was more dissappointment in Gerrard from what i saw when he was watching the replay.

[flw]

Because Roy and his mum are the only people who think he's anything other than crap. Will probably go down as the worst transfer dealing this club has ever made;

1-He's crap
2-His mother, mother, for god's sake hates scousers (and her mates)














3-We gave him a 4 year contract
4-He's ugly
5-He's probably close to John Terry
6-We gave Fulham two upcoming youngsters
7-We gave Fulham £4m
8-given that his family hates scousers we probably paid him a premium wage to come up here
9-he is a constant reminder of hodgson's mediocrity
10-no-one will buy him, he is unsaleable
11-We've got him for 4 years therefore
12-he's crap

Thanks Roy, indictment enough in itself, regardless of being Poulsened as well

  Im sure that will make him feel real good about himself, couldnt you of left the abuse for one day

[redmark]

Was it a pen
was it a red?
how did we sound from the TV?

No, yes, excellent .

[redmark]

Just did a quick look up, and the laws say the following - seems to be direction is very relevant (see bolded bit) - but maybe there is something else elsewhere:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/7161739.stm

But despite the rise in red cards for such tackles this month [December 2007], the PGMO [Professional Game Match Officials] spokesman denied that officials had been ordered to change their approach to such incidents.

The spokesman added: "The issue of the two-footed challenges was discussed at the regular pre-season meetings the PGMO holds with managers and players.

"They were reminded of the key point surrounding the excessive use of force in the tackle.

"A player who jumps into a tackle two-footed is not in control of himself and therefore if he makes contact with the player, ball and player, or if the referee determines there to be excessive malice in the challenge, he will be dismissed."

----------

According to that, excessive malice can be a red card without contact - any contact at all, two footed off the ground, equals a red card.

Basically, it's not FIFA laws, but English PL/Football League agreed practice.

[bepoq]

Yeah, your point 2 is a much more relevant debate - if he never saw it, he shouldn't have given it. Completely agree with 1 too, Gerrard should have cut two footed challenges out of his game a while ago because he's hugely risking a red card every time he launches himself like that - and it isn't exactly rare that he does it either.

Aye, definitely agree with both of those - I suppose the other debate about it hardly signifies, as Webb obviously had no idea what kind of challenge it was at all.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

The fact of the matter is that as always. As Ever. Manchester United are cheating scumbags. They have been for 20 years. Watch Ferguson when he was a player. He has always been a cheat and this is what he instructs his team to be. His puppet referees help him with this. And the fact that Webb gets an MBE tells the world that England is a dishonest laughable nation. It rewards cheats.