Author Topic: "Sell-Off" - The Abolition of Your NHS  (Read 85877 times)

Online Trada

  • Fully paid up member of the JC cult. Ex-Tory boy. Corbyn's Chief Hagiographer. Sometimes hasn't got a kloop.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 22,813
  • Trada
Re: "Sell-Off" - The Abolition of Your NHS
« Reply #240 on: January 12, 2016, 06:56:25 pm »
A government spokesmen suddenly butting into a interview saying he can't ask those question.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/dxj5ItDhaJw" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/dxj5ItDhaJw</a>
Don't blame me I voted for Jeremy Corbyn!!

Miss you Tracy more and more every day xxx

“I carry them with me: what they would have thought and said and done. Make them a part of who I am. So even though they’re gone from the world they’re never gone from me.

Offline filopastry

  • seldom posts but often delivers
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 14,798
  • Let me tell you a story.........
Re: "Sell-Off" - The Abolition of Your NHS
« Reply #241 on: January 12, 2016, 07:28:31 pm »
It does make me sick listening to the snide bollocks from some of those on the right, making out that we can't go on forever with the NHS because it will cost too much.

Firstly its a relatively cheap system compared to most of mainland Europe (and dramatically cheaper than the mess that is the private system in the US)

And secondly moving it to an insurance based system doesn't actually save any money anyway, unless the Tories are now fully unleashing their inner nazis and just want to leave all poor people without treatment to die on the streets (although I wouldn't rule that out with some of these bastards), then you will still need to perform the same actual treatment at  the same cost and then just add more cost and bureaucracy on top to administer the insurance system.

The biggest problem the NHS has is lack of funding relative to some of the other top international health care systems, not public sector inefficiency, and that should be pretty obvious for anyone who isn't blinded by their "free markets do everything better" evangelical fervour.


Offline Fat Scouser

  • Trolley Dolly with a 54 2/3 inch waist - last seen shopping on Scottie Road for speedos. Is just a bit.....you know.....
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 23,906
Re: "Sell-Off" - The Abolition of Your NHS
« Reply #242 on: January 12, 2016, 08:26:22 pm »
It does make me sick listening to the snide bollocks from some of those on the right, making out that we can't go on forever with the NHS because it will cost too much.

Firstly its a relatively cheap system compared to most of mainland Europe (and dramatically cheaper than the mess that is the private system in the US)

And secondly moving it to an insurance based system doesn't actually save any money anyway, unless the Tories are now fully unleashing their inner nazis and just want to leave all poor people without treatment to die on the streets (although I wouldn't rule that out with some of these bastards), then you will still need to perform the same actual treatment at  the same cost and then just add more cost and bureaucracy on top to administer the insurance system.

The biggest problem the NHS has is lack of funding relative to some of the other top international health care systems, not public sector inefficiency, and that should be pretty obvious for anyone who isn't blinded by their "free markets do everything better" evangelical fervour.


Sadly mate, it's even worse than that and it's not just the Tories. Not that anything you've said is wrong. But have a look at how many of MPs stand to profit from selling the NHS... http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/selling-nhs-profit-full-list-4646154

Plenty of Labour and Libdem MPs have their snouts in the trough. And they sicken me far worse than the Eton Mafia. Well, you know what to expect from them. But look at Mr Nice Guy, Vince Cable, and what he said about the theft/sale of the post office.

Of course, the Tories are the worst. But at least, they make no bones about. In fact, Cameron said it plain during the last so called crisis... "I don't want to know about waiting times in the NHS. What I want to know from my Health Minister is, what a fantastic business opportunity the NHS is."

And Hunt had already made that more than clear... http://www.greenbenchesuk.com/2012/09/jeremy-hunt-co-authored-book-in-2009.html

Make no mistake, they have only one thing in mind for the NHS, privitasation. And they'll rip every single penny they can out of the sell off.

A company more or less owned by Malcolm Riffkind - him of the bungs for favours and expenses scandal - was recently given a contract for scanning even though it cost 7 million quid more than the NHS could provide it for.

You won't see any of this on the "News." You'll see the greedy, bolshy doctors, hell bent on confrontation, putting patients at risk by forcing the reasonable government into an idealogical fight. It's complete and utter bollocks. But I see people, on here and elsewhere, commenting on Squeeze's dig at Cameron and using it to say the BBC isn't biased.

The fact is, the BBC had no idea Squeeze would do that. But Squeeze are from Deptford and thereabouts. And anybody can check what's happening to the NHS in there part of London, where the only hospital not in debt to PFI's is being closed down, even though a judge ruled it's closure "Unlawful" the last time the Tories tried to close it in 2013. And I'm not saying that to cause yet another pointless argument over the BBC.

People are entitled to their own opinion and I'm sick and tired of being drawn into arguments over them. I'm just stating my own opinion. And rather than argue with me over them, I'd suggest people look into what the Tories are doing and what's being reported and hidden. Tillford was completely right, the welfare state will be sold by the end of this Parliament. And don't expect much opposition to it from a party that aided and abbetted in it while in coalition and a Labour Party that abstained on the Welfare Bill and introduced PFI into the NHS.

"A peasant you are. A peasant you will remain. And we shall use all our wealth and power, to make your lot even worse and keep you exactly where you are, Bondage!"    The Boy King, Richard II, after  putting down the The Peasants Revolt in 1381.

http://misterinobody.weebly.com/

Offline The Gulleysucker

  • RAWK's very own spinached up Popeye. Transfer Board Veteran 5 Stars.
  • RAWK Remembers
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 11,496
  • An Indolent Sybarite
Re: "Sell-Off" - The Abolition of Your NHS
« Reply #243 on: January 12, 2016, 10:31:10 pm »
......Cameron said it plain during the last so called crisis... "I don't want to know about waiting times in the NHS. What I want to know from my Health Minister is, what a fantastic business opportunity the NHS is."

Fats, I have no time for Cameron and his lot and agree entirely that many of them have a barely concealed agenda driven my US Health Insurance companies keen to get in on the act here in the UK, but if we are ever going to get these bastards we really have to stick accurately and truthfully to what they actually said and not what we think they said, irrespective of if we can guess the real meaning according to our prejudices, otherwise we will look stupid and they will continue just laughing at us.

Cameron actually said “From the Health Secretary, I don’t just want to know about waiting times. I want to know how we drive the NHS to be a fantastic business for Britain.”

It was from a speech back in 2011...http://labourlist.org/2011/11/cameron-says-he-wants-the-nhs-to-be-a-fantastic-business/

Irrespective of the misquoting, what he is referring to there as a fantastic business for Britain should not be simplistically interpreted as an attack on the NHS. It's that globalisation and the web has changed not just industrial manufacturing and supply but also access to skills including many diagnostic Medical skills.

For example, expensively trained specialisations like Radiology consultants interpreting patient scans can now be done over the web and we could be selling these skills to other countries health services. Trials have already started.

I should know, my daughter, after her 8 years Medical training and obtaining two degrees, is a junior Doctor currently into her next five years specialist training and exams to become a Radiology consultant. My son qualified last year also with two degrees and is currently a junior Dr doing his F1 year.

(You can imagine how cheerful they are with the homeopathic woo adherent Hunt and the Tories over this contrived pay dispute, I expect if it's not resolved to their satisfaction they will soon consider going abroad were they will be valued and paid a lot more)

It's unfortunate as I know this has made it sound like I'm defending Cameron, but in this particular case and quote, and irrespective of political pursuasion, if we as a nation don't try and do these sort of things from here and soon, some other countries medical service will undoubtedly do it to the NHS and we'll then lose our own homegrown skills and possibly even the capacity to teach them and the destruction of the NHS will become a self fulfilling prophesy.

If Corbyn and his team have any nouse, they should be fully backing that particular idea too.
I don't do polite so fuck yoursalf with your stupid accusations...

Right you fuckwit I will show you why you are talking out of your fat arse...

Mutton Geoff (Obviously a real nice guy)

Offline Fat Scouser

  • Trolley Dolly with a 54 2/3 inch waist - last seen shopping on Scottie Road for speedos. Is just a bit.....you know.....
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 23,906
Re: "Sell-Off" - The Abolition of Your NHS
« Reply #244 on: January 13, 2016, 03:26:47 am »
Gulley mate, if it wasn't you, I wouldn't answer. But I never brought Corbyn into this, and I've made a real effort of staying out of that argument on here. But what he should be doing, is concentrating on the NHS and other domestic battles, not being drawn into infighting over foriegn policy. And I'm looking forward to PMQ's more than any match in a few seasons, hoping he'll go on the attack over the Junior Doctors strike.

And despite misqouting Cameron, I know medicine is changing. And yes, I know the NHS is under threat from global competition. But the point stands, this government, and plenty of Labour and Libdem MP's, stand to make great profits by selling off the NHS.  And I made that point as an answer to a previous post about underfunding.

Of course, underfunding is one ploy - run the system into the ground, soften up the public for it's sale. But no matter how much money we pour into the NHS, PFI will just suck it out. That's why I made the point about Squeeze and Deptford. There's 4 main hospitals in that area of South East London. 3 are in debt to PFI's. 1 isn't. One has to close.

The destruction of the NHS is well underway. And sadly, no matter what we outsource to cheaper nations, if the idealogical, self-enriching robbing of the NHS isn't stopped, your kids might be sending me my results from Australia.

And don't take that as some snotty backbite. It's not. You're kids sound a real credit to you. You must be very proud of them. I take my hat off to you for raising them. And I mean that sincerly. I've spent a lot of time in hospitals over the last 18 months. I can't speak highly enough of the doctors, nurses and NHS that I've seen. The medical treatment I've recieved has been fantastic. But, bar one narky shite that could probably cause murder in a one man tent, everybody that has dealt with me has been great. Cheerful, happy, helpful. I can't believe the attitude of the NHS workers. But how long can any human beings keep that up when they're deliberately being put through woeful, demoralising stress and strain.

So as for Cameron and misqouting him, if his lips are moving he's lying. He's only one intention for the NHS and every other part of our social fabric... selling it and kopping as much as he can out of it. But then like he's just said, he's worried about his own kids buying a house and having no services. So, he needs the few bob.
"A peasant you are. A peasant you will remain. And we shall use all our wealth and power, to make your lot even worse and keep you exactly where you are, Bondage!"    The Boy King, Richard II, after  putting down the The Peasants Revolt in 1381.

http://misterinobody.weebly.com/

Offline The Gulleysucker

  • RAWK's very own spinached up Popeye. Transfer Board Veteran 5 Stars.
  • RAWK Remembers
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 11,496
  • An Indolent Sybarite
Re: "Sell-Off" - The Abolition of Your NHS
« Reply #245 on: January 13, 2016, 07:23:18 am »


Fats,

I agree entirely with the gist of what you are saying as do probably most people who bother posting on here. We are all on the same side and want to see the Tories out and the damage they are inflicting reversed.

The only point I'm (perhaps clumsily) trying to make is for you to imagine that it's a court of law and you present that alleged quote as evidence, what do you think will happen? You see, we have to think like this and be absolutely accurate otherwise our argument starts to appear unconvincing and doubt will then be cast over the veracity of the rest of our evidence, which would be regrettable.

And the only reason I mentioned Corbyn (I could equally have simply said Labour...perhaps I should have as it seems to have given the wrong impression, it was not an attack on him) is I happen to believe that the NHS is a cause and of such an importance to the fabric and well being of our nation that it should be at the forefront if not the centrepiece of any Labour policy, not sideshow arguments over terrorism or Trident or flood prevention funding.

There are many such areas where the next election can be easily and carelessly lost by Labour, but the future of the NHS and its safeguarding and funding is quite possibly where the next election can be won.

I can only hope that Labour can get their act together and produce a convincing argument to the public on this.

As you say, at the next PMQ's would be a start, but it should be relentless.

It will be highly disappointing if it's not.

I don't do polite so fuck yoursalf with your stupid accusations...

Right you fuckwit I will show you why you are talking out of your fat arse...

Mutton Geoff (Obviously a real nice guy)

Offline Fat Scouser

  • Trolley Dolly with a 54 2/3 inch waist - last seen shopping on Scottie Road for speedos. Is just a bit.....you know.....
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 23,906
Re: "Sell-Off" - The Abolition of Your NHS
« Reply #246 on: January 13, 2016, 11:36:05 am »
Got you GS mate. I know we're all in the same boat, at least on this issue. And so we should be. And far as I'm concerned, there's no room for discussion. The evidence is everywhere. They are purposely running the NHS, and it's workers, into the ground, demoralising them and softening us up for the sale of our health. And when it comes to me talking about Just Dave, I only wish I was in court. But there's no slandering him. I couldn't make up anything worse than the truth. Filthy robbing bastard, he'll leave nothing for any of our kids and he should be in the dock for treason.
"A peasant you are. A peasant you will remain. And we shall use all our wealth and power, to make your lot even worse and keep you exactly where you are, Bondage!"    The Boy King, Richard II, after  putting down the The Peasants Revolt in 1381.

http://misterinobody.weebly.com/

Offline Andy @ Allerton!

  • Missing an asterisk - no, wait sorry, that's his rusty starfish..... RAWK Apple fanboy. Hedley Lamarr's bestest mate. Has done nothing incredible ever.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 73,715
  • Asterisks baby!
Re: "Sell-Off" - The Abolition of Your NHS
« Reply #247 on: January 13, 2016, 12:45:17 pm »
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

Offline Andy @ Allerton!

  • Missing an asterisk - no, wait sorry, that's his rusty starfish..... RAWK Apple fanboy. Hedley Lamarr's bestest mate. Has done nothing incredible ever.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 73,715
  • Asterisks baby!
Re: "Sell-Off" - The Abolition of Your NHS
« Reply #248 on: January 13, 2016, 01:16:17 pm »
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/dxj5ItDhaJw" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/dxj5ItDhaJw</a>
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

Offline HarryLabrador

  • went broke, so had to get the retrievers in.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 7,263
Re: "Sell-Off" - The Abolition of Your NHS
« Reply #249 on: January 13, 2016, 01:57:03 pm »
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/dxj5ItDhaJw" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/dxj5ItDhaJw</a>
Well done the BBC for exposing this.
SoS Membership Number: 387

Offline Red an White Tea Party

  • Anny Roader
  • ****
  • Posts: 477
  • How d'ya like them Onions barca?
Re: "Sell-Off" - The Abolition of Your NHS
« Reply #250 on: January 13, 2016, 07:15:35 pm »
If you ask Smalling and Brown if they'd rather play Suarez or Carroll, they'd say Suarez all day long, because he's not going to bully them or run in behind them.

Offline TepidT2O

  • Deffo NOT 9"! MUFC bedwetter. Grass. Folically-challenged, God-piece-wearing, monkey-rubber. Jizz aroma expert. Operating at the lower end of the distribution curve...has the hots for Alan. Bastard. Fearless in transfer windows with lack of convicti
  • Lead Matchday Commentator
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 94,333
  • Dejan Lovren fan club member #1
Re: "Sell-Off" - The Abolition of Your NHS
« Reply #251 on: January 13, 2016, 08:54:41 pm »
As the gulley alluded to, it was important that this was followed up in PMQs today.....

Baffling really, there was nothing said.  I dot understand politics sometimes

Anyway, very worryingly, the last two years have seen a marked and very noticeable dip in people applying to study medicine.



21650 in 2012 vs 20,100 in 2015

Combine that with there no longer being bursaries for nursing and we are heading for a cluster fuck, private NHS or not...

We are heading for an almighty disaster.
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
W

Offline Guz-kop

  • Baz cop
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 14,485
Re: "Sell-Off" - The Abolition of Your NHS
« Reply #252 on: January 15, 2016, 12:43:12 am »
Politicians don't understand the NHS. Labour didn't have an answer last May they don't have one now. They should be capitalising on Hunt & Cameron having lost the faith of the majority of the medical profession but they're not because labour have fuck all in terms of solutions. And let's not forget they alienated an entire generation of doctors with the clusterfuck they produced in 2007 with MMC/MTAS and also couldn't resist wasting millions on pointless initiatives and reorganisations.

The NHS is broke, it's full to the brim every day and now its front line staff are totally disillusioned. It's going to die a very slow and painful death unfortunately and I have no idea who can save it
It's wonderful, it's marvellous, it's 3-3

Online macca007

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,234
Re: "Sell-Off" - The Abolition of Your NHS
« Reply #253 on: January 15, 2016, 10:08:21 am »
Politicians don't understand the NHS. Labour didn't have an answer last May they don't have one now. They should be capitalising on Hunt & Cameron having lost the faith of the majority of the medical profession but they're not because labour have fuck all in terms of solutions. And let's not forget they alienated an entire generation of doctors with the clusterfuck they produced in 2007 with MMC/MTAS and also couldn't resist wasting millions on pointless initiatives and reorganisations.

The NHS is broke, it's full to the brim every day and now its front line staff are totally disillusioned. It's going to die a very slow and painful death unfortunately and I have no idea who can save it

Aye but they have set it up to do so. Wages don't compete with other countries. Especially Oz. In my profession they will pay me more money basic than I earn in enhancements and overtime aswell as pay for the flight and accommodation. I'd have left already if my girlfriend was able to yet but she's sorting out her masters still so no chance for a few years. So you have god knows how many who have fucked off there Then you have the unrealistic expectations of politicians on services where we get fined for patient breaches in a and e. This is despite a shortage of a and e nurses and doctors. So instead of investing in those areas they are doing fuck all. Fats is right about them setting us up to fail. It is so they can sell it off on the cheap. I've watched it happen for years now.  Even the recent one with agency staff. A and e needed those staff to make up numbers but now they cant use them.

The public don't help.  I've seen patients for a xray turn up to a and e at 3am with 6 month back pain or a 4 week cough.  Some can't be arsed seeing there gp others suddenly think they can't wait for an appointment but again there's a national shortage of gps another area that needs investment.  Although part of the reason they want people to pay for a and e is to stop things like this happening.

Added to the bursary situation and lack of doctors training and losing highly trained individuals abroad and where are the next lot of staff coming from.  Personally I never had the drive or actually want to be a doctor and knowing what they do now I don't think they are paid enough for the job anyway so don't see if conditions get worse why anyone would want to do it. 
« Last Edit: January 15, 2016, 10:12:08 am by macca007 »

Offline Andy @ Allerton!

  • Missing an asterisk - no, wait sorry, that's his rusty starfish..... RAWK Apple fanboy. Hedley Lamarr's bestest mate. Has done nothing incredible ever.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 73,715
  • Asterisks baby!
Re: "Sell-Off" - The Abolition of Your NHS
« Reply #254 on: January 17, 2016, 05:52:06 pm »
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/half-private-firms-behind-nhs-5347268


Half of private firms behind NHS privatisation have links to Tories

Half of the private firms which jointly won the largest NHS privatisation deal in history have links to the Tories, shock research reveals.

The Mirror told last week how the Government had signed a record £780million contract with 11 companies to help tackle the backlog of thousands of patients waiting for surgery and tests.

The news was met by anger, not least because three of the 11 profit-driven firms had previously been slammed for providing poor quality of care.

And last night it emerged that at least half of the companies have close links to Tory politicians or the Tory party itself.

Critics predicted “the public will be totally sickened” by the revelation which they claimed exposed the “incestuous relationship” between the Tories and private health firms.

Dr Clive Peedell, a leading cancer doctor and co-leader of the National Health Action party, said: “I think the public will be totally sickened by this apparently incestuous relationship between the Tories and private healthcare companies.

“Not only are the Tories hell-bent on using private companies to take over NHS services and not only are they using private companies with a track record of patient failure. But now it looks like Tory donors are paying for access and influence and directly profiting from the privatisation of our NHS.”

Dr Peedell added: “No wonder the public is so turned off by politics when they see what appears to be influence being bought and politicians abusing their positions of trust.”

Andy Burnham, Labour’s shadow health secretary, whose party uncovered the links between some of the 11 private firms and the Tories, described it as “wrong on every level”.

He said: “It is only right that the close financial ties between the Tory Party and private health firms which have won contracts under this Government are revealed before people go to vote.

“David Cameron does not have the permission of a single voter to parcel up and sell off large chunks of the NHS. He forced his privatisation plan through Parliament without a mandate from the public and it is Tory donors and MPs that have been some of the biggest winners.

“Voters have a right to know the full extent of the relationship between the Tories and private health. When these privatisation plans were being drawn up in secret by Andrew Lansley before the 2010 election, his office was being bankrolled by a private health company. That stinks and is wrong on every level.”

Vanguard, one of the 11 firms to win the £780million deal, is majority owned by private equity firm MML Capital, whose founder and chief executive Rory Brooks has donated more than £300,000 to the Tory party, according to research by Labour.

Mr Brooks is also a member of David Cameron’s exclusive leaders group.

Circle, which pulled out of running the first privately-run NHS hospital, Hinchingbrooke, in Cambridgeshire, is another of the 11 firms to have links to the Tories.

Care UK, another winner in the £780million deal, was previously slammed by the Care Quality Commission for the quality of care at two nursing homes it runs in Suffolk. John Nash, a former chairman of Care UK, has, with his wife donated almost £300,000 to the Tory party and was given a peerage by Mr Cameron in 2013.

Three other firms involved in the deal also have links to the Tory party, with Tory peers or MPs having previously held positions with them.

The companies said there was no link between donations to the Tories – made privately by individuals and not by the firms – and each company’s business investments.

But UNISON general secretary Dave Prentis said: “The plan was simple, sell our NHS to private companies, turn a profit out of people’s misfortune and pay back the Tory party.

“This Government has worked hard to clamp down on union donations to the Labour party when behind the scenes it has been making a fortune on health contracts sold to their friendly funders.

“Everything about this is wrong and it is clear this Government has no interest in the health of the country, or the future of the NHS.”

A Care UK spokesman said: “Care UK does not donate funds to any political party and never has.

“The figures quoted refer to a personal donation to the Conservative Party made by the wife of John Nash, a former chairman of Care UK, in 2009. John Nash stepped down as chairman of Care UK in April 2010.”

A Circle spokesman said: “Circle has never donated any money to any political party, and much of our NHS work started before the last election.”
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

Online Trada

  • Fully paid up member of the JC cult. Ex-Tory boy. Corbyn's Chief Hagiographer. Sometimes hasn't got a kloop.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 22,813
  • Trada
Re: "Sell-Off" - The Abolition of Your NHS
« Reply #255 on: January 25, 2016, 07:44:17 am »
SICK JOKE: Government to make public YOUR sickness record.

FAMILY doctors have accused the Government of “state snooping” after it emerged that patients’ sickness records are to be collected and published.

The Department for Work and Pensions will comb through GP records, including the number of sick notes issued by each practice and the number of patients recorded as “unfit” or “maybe fit” for work.

Patients’ names will not be disclosed. The DWP said the statistical information would “help provide a better understanding of why people take sickness absence in different areas across the country”.

But Family Doctor Association chairman Dr Peter Swinyard said: “I think that is state snooping. Although I am sure some civil servant thought it was a terrific idea somewhere, I am not entirely sure I agree. I don’t know if patients understand that when I write a sick note, some bureaucrat is going to be able to have a look at it.”

Dr Zoe Norris, spokeswoman for the family doctor pressure group GP Survival, said: “This could be a method for trying to find the highest concentrations of people on long-term sickness to try to catch people cheating the system. GPs should not have to be put in this position. Patient trust will be undermined if they think their doctor is reporting back on them.”

The information gathering, uncovered by doctors’ magazine Pulse, will begin next month and make it mandatory for GPs to release the data to the DWP for analysis unless a patient explicitly objects.

The material, which will be published by the Government’s Health and Social Care Information Centre from next spring, will include the length of time off, patient gender, type of health condition, their location and whether workplace adaptations were recommended.

GPs, as data controllers, will be required to tell patients in person, via notices in the surgery and on the practice website of the impending extraction.

GP and data-sharing campaigner Dr Neil Bhatia said he was “not sure why” the data was required, “other than to compare practices, create league tables, name and shame”.

He added: “‘I think it would be extremely difficult to make sense of the information out of context of the consultation.”

Dr Kailash Chand, deputy chairman of the British Medical Association, said: “Primary care in this country is a jewel in the crown. But GPs are supposed to be patient advocates.

“This will damage the doctor-patient relationship for very questionable gain.”

A DWP spokeswoman said the data was being collated to support patients in getting back to work.

She said: “We know the damage that can be done when people are absent from the workplace for extended periods of time.

“That’s why we want to ensure that people get the best possible support to return to work or to avoid falling out of work in the first place.”

She added that the statistics “will help provide a better understanding of why people take sickness absence in different areas across the country, so we can then make the service as effective as possible for businesses and employees”.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/637423/Doctors-outrage-Government-snoops-sick-notes-checks
Don't blame me I voted for Jeremy Corbyn!!

Miss you Tracy more and more every day xxx

“I carry them with me: what they would have thought and said and done. Make them a part of who I am. So even though they’re gone from the world they’re never gone from me.

Online Trada

  • Fully paid up member of the JC cult. Ex-Tory boy. Corbyn's Chief Hagiographer. Sometimes hasn't got a kloop.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 22,813
  • Trada
Re: "Sell-Off" - The Abolition of Your NHS
« Reply #256 on: February 8, 2016, 04:56:33 pm »
About the strike on Wednesday.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/YHZYeKH6SV4&amp;app=desktop" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/YHZYeKH6SV4&amp;app=desktop</a>
Don't blame me I voted for Jeremy Corbyn!!

Miss you Tracy more and more every day xxx

“I carry them with me: what they would have thought and said and done. Make them a part of who I am. So even though they’re gone from the world they’re never gone from me.

Online macca007

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,234
Re: "Sell-Off" - The Abolition of Your NHS
« Reply #257 on: February 10, 2016, 05:58:30 pm »
« Last Edit: February 10, 2016, 06:01:47 pm by macca007 »

Online macca007

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,234
Re: "Sell-Off" - The Abolition of Your NHS
« Reply #258 on: February 11, 2016, 07:06:18 am »
Support the junior doctors

Online macca007

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,234
Re: "Sell-Off" - The Abolition of Your NHS
« Reply #259 on: February 11, 2016, 07:07:37 am »
And this is written by a doctor from facebook

It's 4 degrees. I could have been doing the thing I love the most: heart surgery. But instead, I've given up a day's wages to stand in the cold, waving a placard at people who (mostly) already feel the same about this government's toxic attitude to the NHS.

"You're all greedy!" shouted one woman as she hurtled past in her car. Drive by abusing. It made me think.

I think I get paid well. I'd like to get paid more - I don't know anyone who doesn't... But I think the nurses deserve their raises more than me. I think we could save money on managers and PFI and politically driven, clinically meaningless targets. But I'm not a health economist. I'm a junior doctor. And what I DO know is that not one person stood at the picket lines today would gain or lose a penny with the new contract. They would be pay protected. So it's not about the money. It can't be. Why would all these people strike to not change their own finances? Because... It's about the future.

Not the future of doctors. Why on earth would doctors strike for the next generation?! Most are too busy, too stretched to look after the interests of the medical students who will come to replace them. No, this is about the future of the NHS. You can't take the same number of people who aren't enough to run a five day "fully staffed" service and run a seven day "fully staffed" service. That's ludicrous. And it doesn't take a health economist to work that out.

We're not striking for us. We're striking for the NHS. If we fail and the private healthcare system this government is clamouring for comes through, I wonder what the woman who denounced us as greedy will think then...

Online Trada

  • Fully paid up member of the JC cult. Ex-Tory boy. Corbyn's Chief Hagiographer. Sometimes hasn't got a kloop.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 22,813
  • Trada
Re: "Sell-Off" - The Abolition of Your NHS
« Reply #260 on: February 11, 2016, 07:14:58 am »
Seems like the Tories are going to enforce the new contracts onto the doctors in the next week or so.

I see more strikes ahead.

 
Don't blame me I voted for Jeremy Corbyn!!

Miss you Tracy more and more every day xxx

“I carry them with me: what they would have thought and said and done. Make them a part of who I am. So even though they’re gone from the world they’re never gone from me.

Offline Mr F

  • uckwit
  • Kopite
  • *****
  • Posts: 901
Re: "Sell-Off" - The Abolition of Your NHS
« Reply #261 on: February 11, 2016, 10:37:17 am »
Frustratingly an imposition is a win-win for the Tories. Either the doctors will accept the new contract and the Tories have secured a major victory over a powerful union or we leave in our droves, crippling the NHS, making it ripe for privatisation.

Expect a lot more strikes if this imposition goes through. Still makes me proud to work in an organisation whose employees care about it as much as those working in the NHS do.
Chardee MacDennis: The Game of Games

Offline Andy @ Allerton!

  • Missing an asterisk - no, wait sorry, that's his rusty starfish..... RAWK Apple fanboy. Hedley Lamarr's bestest mate. Has done nothing incredible ever.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 73,715
  • Asterisks baby!
Re: "Sell-Off" - The Abolition of Your NHS
« Reply #262 on: February 11, 2016, 12:22:58 pm »
Reading the BBC responses on their message board to the Imposition of the contract, it's sad that Britain is so ridiculously Right-Wing.
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

Offline TepidT2O

  • Deffo NOT 9"! MUFC bedwetter. Grass. Folically-challenged, God-piece-wearing, monkey-rubber. Jizz aroma expert. Operating at the lower end of the distribution curve...has the hots for Alan. Bastard. Fearless in transfer windows with lack of convicti
  • Lead Matchday Commentator
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 94,333
  • Dejan Lovren fan club member #1
Re: "Sell-Off" - The Abolition of Your NHS
« Reply #263 on: February 11, 2016, 12:47:48 pm »
What an utter twat Hunt is...
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
W

Offline perspectiveplease

  • getsomethenstopwastingourbandwidth!
  • Anny Roader
  • ****
  • Posts: 313
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: "Sell-Off" - The Abolition of Your NHS
« Reply #264 on: February 11, 2016, 12:51:56 pm »
Reading the BBC responses on their message board to the Imposition of the contract, it's sad that Britain is so ridiculously Right-Wing.

Agreed. It was depressing to read such mindless drivel.

The BBC hasn't helped in the matter either though. Rather than explain the issue in detail, it's been simplified to a disagreement over pay.

Online Trada

  • Fully paid up member of the JC cult. Ex-Tory boy. Corbyn's Chief Hagiographer. Sometimes hasn't got a kloop.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 22,813
  • Trada
Re: "Sell-Off" - The Abolition of Your NHS
« Reply #265 on: February 11, 2016, 02:59:35 pm »
Faisal Islam ‏@faisalislam 7m7 minutes ago

Junior Docs -another 2 hospital chief execs out of 20 who signed Dalton letter, now say don't back Hunt contract imposition HT
Don't blame me I voted for Jeremy Corbyn!!

Miss you Tracy more and more every day xxx

“I carry them with me: what they would have thought and said and done. Make them a part of who I am. So even though they’re gone from the world they’re never gone from me.

Offline B0151?

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 19,142
Re: "Sell-Off" - The Abolition of Your NHS
« Reply #266 on: February 11, 2016, 03:16:24 pm »
Comment sections of news sites are always infested with right wingers for some reason. Social media has plenty of support.

Offline filopastry

  • seldom posts but often delivers
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 14,798
  • Let me tell you a story.........
Re: "Sell-Off" - The Abolition of Your NHS
« Reply #267 on: February 11, 2016, 03:20:24 pm »
http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/

Quote
Ipsos MORI have re-asked their questions on the junior doctors’ dispute ahead of the second strike today. The overall level of support remains the same, with two-thirds backing the strike, but underneath that opinions appear to be polarising. While the 66% of people supporting the strike is the same percentage as last month, within that the proportion saying “strongly support” has risen, those saying “tend to support” has fallen. Among the other third of the population the proportion of people saying they don’t know or have no feelings either way has fallen (from 19% to 12%), the proportion of people saying they oppose the strike has risen (from 15% to 22%).

Asked who is to blame for the dispute continuing this long 64% blamed the government, 13% the doctors and 18% both equally. Full details of the poll is here, and my write-up of the January figures is here.

Offline B0151?

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 19,142
Re: "Sell-Off" - The Abolition of Your NHS
« Reply #268 on: February 11, 2016, 03:44:06 pm »
About the strike on Wednesday.

That was brilliant. Such composure. Would (and did) tear Jeremy a new one.

Offline saoirse08

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,856
  • TRUTH. JUSTICE. ACCOUNTABILITY.
Re: "Sell-Off" - The Abolition of Your NHS
« Reply #269 on: February 11, 2016, 03:56:27 pm »
About the strike on Wednesday.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/YHZYeKH6SV4&amp;app=desktop" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/YHZYeKH6SV4&amp;app=desktop</a>

It's militants like her that are destroying this country.
“The socialism I believe in is everyone working for each other, everyone having a share of the rewards. It’s the way I see football, the way I see life.”

"The old is dying and the new cannot be born; in this interregnum a great variety of morbid symptoms appear."

Offline mikey_LFC

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,381
  • At the End of a Storm there's a Golden Sky.
Re: "Sell-Off" - The Abolition of Your NHS
« Reply #270 on: February 11, 2016, 06:34:26 pm »
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/121262

Sign this petition please to help out the NHS and junior doctors!
"A lot of football success is in the mind. You must believe you are the best and then make sure that you are." - Bill Shankly

Offline gazzalfc

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 22,784
  • Well done boys, Good Process
Re: "Sell-Off" - The Abolition of Your NHS
« Reply #271 on: February 11, 2016, 06:50:31 pm »
The Last Leg back on tomorrow and I can't fucking wait to see what they have to say about todays news

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/C-O4_E3SKsc" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/C-O4_E3SKsc</a>

Offline Andy @ Allerton!

  • Missing an asterisk - no, wait sorry, that's his rusty starfish..... RAWK Apple fanboy. Hedley Lamarr's bestest mate. Has done nothing incredible ever.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 73,715
  • Asterisks baby!
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

Offline Andy @ Allerton!

  • Missing an asterisk - no, wait sorry, that's his rusty starfish..... RAWK Apple fanboy. Hedley Lamarr's bestest mate. Has done nothing incredible ever.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 73,715
  • Asterisks baby!
Re: "Sell-Off" - The Abolition of Your NHS
« Reply #273 on: February 11, 2016, 07:12:50 pm »
http://www.thecanary.co/2016/02/11/hunt-trying-dismantle-nhs-heres-evidence/

Hunt is trying to destroy the NHS – here’s the evidence

In 2005, Jeremy C*nt co-wrote a policy book that advocated privatising the NHS – and since becoming Health Secretary, he has followed its recommendations to the letter. But things are not going to plan.

In 2005, a group of Tory MPs, frustrated at being consigned to the opposition benches by successive Labour governments, wrote a soul-searching pamphlet on the future direction of the Conservative party. Direct Democracy: An Agenda For A New Model Party (pdf) argued, among other things, for the end of central government accountability for our public services:

Yet what is needed is not the accountability of services to central government – precisely the error of the Attlee settlement whose failed systems we still inhabit. Accountability must be direct, democratic and local.
In the chapter on the health service, the authors made it clear they were not fans of the NHS (page 74):

The problem with the NHS is not one of resources. Rather, it is that the system remains a centrally run, state monopoly, designed over half a century ago.
In fact, they thought it was “fundamentally broken” (page 80):

Instead of tinkering with a fundamentally broken machine, [The Conservative party] should offer to update the model, setting out, in warm and optimistic tones, its vision of a healthier Britain.
The solution, of course, was privatisation (page 74):

We should fund patients, either through the tax system or by way of universal insurance, to purchase health care from the provider of their choice. The poor and unemployed would have their contributions supplemented or paid for by the state.
And privatisation included the “denationalisation” of the health service (page 78):

Our ambition should be to break down the barriers between private and public provision, in effect denationalising the provision of health care in Britain, so extending to all the choices currently available only to the minority who opt for private provision.
The book does not state which MPs wrote which chapters and Jeremy C*nt has, in the past, denied writing the chapter on the NHS, claiming it does not reflect his views.

But during his time as Health Secretary, he has carried out the chapter’s recommendations to the letter.

Hunt has overseen the implementation of the 2012 Health & Social Care Act which, at a stroke, removed accountability for the NHS from the Secretary of State for Health, denationalised our healthcare system and opened up a large chunk of our health provision to private corporations. He has even questioned the entire funding model of the NHS, suggesting it cannot remain entirely taxpayer-funded in the long term.

According to the policy book he co-authored, Hunt’s actions so far should have brought the NHS to a rosy place (page 79):

Competition would drive up standards. It would produce better outcomes, with faster adoption and diffusion of new medical techniques and drugs. It would result in better working conditions for staff, who would have employers competing to employ them, knowing that success would be dependent on satisfying the patient and not meeting government targets. And it would provide better value for money, since health care costs would be driven by the most efficient providers.
The reality though, is that Hunt’s policies have brought the NHS to its knees. Junior doctors are in open warfare with the government. GPs are leaving the profession in droves. The ones who remain are threatening mass resignations. Privatisation has led to routine conflicts of interest. Over a third of students no longer want to study medicine. Hospitals are being forced to take out loans just to pay wages. And exhaustion and psychological distress are pushing doctors to suicide.

The book contained another deeply flawed bit of thinking. It assumed that the British people were fed up with the NHS, it read:

The Conservative Party, should articulate the country’s desire for a proper overhaul of the [National Health] system.
And this assumption may end up being Hunt’s undoing. Far from being fed up with it, it turns out Britain loves our NHS, fiercely. And we love our junior doctors too. What we are really fed up with, polls suggest, is Jeremy C*nt.

Get involved!

-Tweet your support for junior doctors using the #JuniorDoctors hashtag.
-Sign the official petition against the Junior Doctors’ Contract, which expires in March 2016.
-Sign the petition to Save Our NHS.
-Help to stop the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP), a treaty that will open the NHS up to total privatisation.
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

Offline Red Beret

  • Yellow Beret. Wants to sit in the Lobster Pot. Fat-fingered. Key. Boa. Rd. Kille. R. tonunlick! Soggy Knickers King. Bed-Exiting / Grunting / Bending Down / Cum Face Champion 2023.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 51,572
Re: "Sell-Off" - The Abolition of Your NHS
« Reply #274 on: February 11, 2016, 07:44:51 pm »
The Tories' obsession with this flawed ideology that "competition drives up standards" when time and time again it has been blatantly proven that this is NOT the case just beggars belief.
I don't always visit Lobster Pot.  But when I do. I sit.

Popcorn's Art

Online Elmo!

  • Spolier alret!
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 13,443
Re: "Sell-Off" - The Abolition of Your NHS
« Reply #275 on: February 11, 2016, 08:16:45 pm »
The Tories' obsession with this flawed ideology that "competition drives up standards" when time and time again it has been blatantly proven that this is NOT the case just beggars belief.

That's not their ideology, that's just how they sell it to the public.

Offline gazzalfc

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 22,784
  • Well done boys, Good Process

Online Trada

  • Fully paid up member of the JC cult. Ex-Tory boy. Corbyn's Chief Hagiographer. Sometimes hasn't got a kloop.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 22,813
  • Trada
Re: "Sell-Off" - The Abolition of Your NHS
« Reply #277 on: February 11, 2016, 10:46:39 pm »
A book he co wrote in 2005

Jeremy C*nt co-authored book calling for NHS to be replaced with private insurance

'Direct Democracy: An Agenda For A New Model Party' called for the 'denationalisation' of the NHS

Jeremy C*nt co-authored a policy pamphlet that called for the NHS to be replaced by an insurance system.

The 2005 policy book, called Direct Democracy: An Agenda For A New Model Party, was a collection of writings authored by a group of Tory MPs.

Amongst other ideas, the book contained a blueprint for replacing the NHS with an insurance market system – and called for the private sector to be brought in.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-hunt-privatise-nhs-tories-privatising-private-insurance-market-replacement-direct-democracy-a6865306.html

Don't blame me I voted for Jeremy Corbyn!!

Miss you Tracy more and more every day xxx

“I carry them with me: what they would have thought and said and done. Make them a part of who I am. So even though they’re gone from the world they’re never gone from me.

Offline Guz-kop

  • Baz cop
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 14,485
Re: "Sell-Off" - The Abolition of Your NHS
« Reply #278 on: February 11, 2016, 10:53:33 pm »
A very sad day today for the NHS, in my opinion for the country. Mass resignation or all out indefinite walk out is the only option. Both will cripple the health care system, as will imposition of the contract.

Well done to the absolute fuckwits in this country who allowed the government another term in office.

Morale is at an all time low. This is just the biggest kick in the bollocks imaginable
« Last Edit: February 11, 2016, 10:55:33 pm by Guz-kop »
It's wonderful, it's marvellous, it's 3-3

Offline HarryLabrador

  • went broke, so had to get the retrievers in.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 7,263
Re: "Sell-Off" - The Abolition of Your NHS
« Reply #279 on: February 11, 2016, 11:55:01 pm »
A book he co wrote in 2005

Jeremy C*nt co-authored book calling for NHS to be replaced with private insurance

'Direct Democracy: An Agenda For A New Model Party' called for the 'denationalisation' of the NHS

Jeremy C*nt co-authored a policy pamphlet that called for the NHS to be replaced by an insurance system.

The 2005 policy book, called Direct Democracy: An Agenda For A New Model Party, was a collection of writings authored by a group of Tory MPs.

Amongst other ideas, the book contained a blueprint for replacing the NHS with an insurance market system – and called for the private sector to be brought in.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-hunt-privatise-nhs-tories-privatising-private-insurance-market-replacement-direct-democracy-a6865306.html


Happy to see the Independent exposing this degenerate reprobate. The Guardian also did an article in October last year but not many in the media took notice. Maybe this time?

... Jeremy C*nt is officially on record as saying that the NHS should be privatised. Back in 2005, Hunt co-authored a book called Direct Democracy, which called for the NHS to be dismantled. David Cameron’s health adviser Nick Seddon, formerly of private healthcare company Circle, suggests that CCGs should be merged with private insurance companies and those who can afford to should contribute to their healthcare. David Cameron states that he wants to turn the NHS into a fantastic business. He vows that he would never privatise the NHS because it looked after his family while his government sets about doing exactly this. http://www.theguardian.com/healthcare-network/2015/oct/02/nhs-one-way-road-privatisation

SoS Membership Number: 387