Author Topic: Egypt's second wave of the Revolution  (Read 27093 times)

Offline SadRed

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Re: Egypt's second wave of the Revolution
« Reply #160 on: July 18, 2013, 09:00:39 pm »
Great article on the Guardian chronicalling the day 51 people lost their lives. Great investigative journalism:

Killing in Cairo: the full story of the Republican Guards' club shootings

Wonder what people who supported the coup have to say about this? All the talk was about an inclusive egypt. No body seems to care as long as the dead are MB supporters. Egypt is going down a dangerous path if they keep trying to suppress a large amount of population.

Offline SadRed

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Re: Egypt's second wave of the Revolution
« Reply #161 on: July 19, 2013, 05:19:08 pm »
People, power, or propaganda? Unraveling the Egyptian opposition
   
Max Blumenthal

The debate over the legitimacy of Egypt's new, military-installed government has become a popularity battle, with some of the most vocal supporters of the coup claiming that the June 30 protests against President Mohammed Morsi represented the largest demonstrations in human history, a real-life Cecil B. DeMille production, with crowd sizes ranging anywhere between 14 to 33 million people - over one-third of the entire population of Egypt.

Substituting subjective head counts for vote totals, Morsi's opponents have also pointed to the 22 million signatures supposedly gathered by the newfangled Tamarod youth movement. To them, the tens of millions in the streets were a clear sign that "the people" had sided unequivocally with the army and its political allies.

The importance of head counts to the military-installed government's international legitimacy was on display at a July 11 press conference at the US State Department. Pressed by Matt Lee of the Associated Press on whether the Obama administration considered Morsi's ouster a coup, and if it would respond by canceling aid including a planned shipment of four F-16's to Egypt, State Department spokesperson Jen Psaki countered by citing Tamarod's figures, declaring that the US could not reverse the will of the "22 million people who spoke out and had their voices heard."

Days later, the Pentagon announced that the F-16 sale would proceed as planned. As far as the US was concerned, Egypt had not just witnessed a military coup. Instead, "the people" - or at least 22 million of them - had spoken.

With Egypt's new army-backed regime relying on jaw dropping, record-shattering crowd estimates and petition drive figures to assert its democratic legitimacy, it is worth investigating the source of the numbers, and asking whether they add up at all.

Baseless claims born in an echo chamber

Among the first major Egyptian public figures to marvel at the historic size of the June 30 demonstrations was the billionaire tycoon Naguib Sawiris. On June 30, Sawiris informed his nearly one million Twitter followers that the BBC had just reported, "The number of people protesting today is the largest number in a political event in the history of mankind." Sawiris exhorted the protesters: "Keep impressing…Egypt."

Sawiris was not exactly a disinterested party. He had boasted of his support for Tamarod, lavishing the group with funding and providing them with office space. He also happened to be a stalwart of the old regime who had thrown his full weight behind the secular opposition to Morsi.

Two days after Sawiris' remarkable statement, BBC Arabic's lead anchor, Nour-Eddine Zorgui, responded to a query about it on Twitter by stating, "seen nothing to this effect, beware, only report on this from Egypt itself." Sawiris seemed to have fabricated the riveting BBC dispatch from whole cloth.
Egypt cabinet sworn in after violence

On June 30, one of the most recognisable faces of Egypt's revolutionary socialist youth movement, Gigi Ibrahim, echoed the remarkable claim, declaring on Twitter, "I think this might be the largest protest in terms of numbers in history and definitely in Egypt ever!" Over 100 Twitter users retweeted Ibrahim, while a BBC dispatch reporting that only "tens of thousands of people [had] massed in Tahrir Square" flew below the radar.

Some Egyptian opponents to Morsi appear to have fabricated Western media reports to validate the crowd estimates. Jihan Mansour, a presenter for Dream TV, a private Egyptian network owned by the longtime Mubarak business associate Ahmad Bahgat, announced, "CNN says 33 million people were in the streets today. BBC says the biggest gathering in history."

There is no record of CNN or BBC reporting any such figure. But that did not stop a former Egyptian army general, Sameh Seif Elyazal, from declaring during a live CNN broadcast on July 3, just as the military seized power from Morsi, "This is not a military coup at all. It is the will of the Egyptians who are supported by the army. We haven't seen in the last -- even in modern history, any country in the world driving 33 million people in the street for four days asking the president for an early presidential election." CNN hosts Jake Tapper and Christian Amanpour did not question Elyazal's claim, or demand supporting evidence.

Three days later, Quartet's Middle East special envoy Tony Blair hyped a drastically different, but equally curious, crowd estimate. In an editorial for the Observer (reprinted by the Guardian), Blair stated, "Seventeen million people on the street is not the same as an election. But it is an awesome manifestation of people power." The former UK Prime Minister concluded that if a protest of a proportionate size occurred in his country, "the government wouldn't survive either."

From what source did the claim of 17 million demonstrators originate? Apparently, it was a single anonymous military official. One of the first Egyptian outlets to cite the number was the newspaper Shorouk, which headlined its June 30 report, "Military source: The number of demonstrators is 17 million and increasing."

Strangely, a day before the military told Shorouk that 17 million demonstrators were in the streets against Morsi, another unidentified military source claimed to Reuters that 14 million were protesting. The news service noted that the figure was "implausible," but amidst the excitement and chaos, examples of critical detachment like this were rare.

Meanwhile, the Tamarod youth movement triumphantly announced that it had collected a whopping 22 million signatures on its petition calling for early elections and Morsi's withdrawal. European and US outlets repeated the claim without any critical scrutiny, noting that the number of signatures far exceeded the votes Morsi received when he was elected president.

Like the massive crowd estimates, Tamarod's signature counts were impossible to independently verify. Increasingly it appeared that the numbers were products of a clever public relations campaign, with the Egyptian army and its political supporters relying on the international press and Western diplomats to amplify their Mighty Wurlitzer.

'Impossible' crowd estimates collapse under scrutiny

Was there any credible source for the widely cited figure of 33 million demonstrators? It has been impossible to locate one, either in English or Arabic media. As for the estimations of 17 and 14 million anti-Morsi protesters, there does not appear to be a valid source beyond the two anonymous military officials – not exactly dispassionate observers.

On July 15, the BBC reported that it was unable to find any legitimate sources for the opposition's claims of either 14, 17, or 33 million protesters, affirming the conclusions of BBC Middle East correspondent Wyre Davies, who concluded that mobilising such a massive number of protesters was "impossible."
Supporters of deposed president Mohammed Morsi hold a picture of him during a rally in Cairo's Ramsis square under the Six of October bridge on July 15, 2013.   [AFP]

Through simple Algebra, the Egyptian blogger Shereef Ismail has also poked gaping holes in the opposition's numbers. Estimating that each protester occupied a space of approximately .45 square metres, Ismail calculated that the absolute maximum number of anti-Morsi demonstrators who could fit in the total area of major public spaces in Egyptian cities was at most 2.8 million.

There are other factors that cast doubt on the June 30 crowd estimates, like the basic logistics of cramming between 20 and 40 percent of Egypt's population into already densely populated urban spaces without a staggering number of deaths and injuries ensuing, especially in the oppressive summer heat. Yet many among the army-installed government's supporters are holding fast to their claims, insisting that "the people" led the way against the Muslim Brotherhood's anti-democratic "ballotocracy."

The opposition may have made an impressive showing on June 30 and in the days that followed, but the stunning crowd counts it spread across the world do not seem to hold up against critical scrutiny. And as the mirage of a 30-million-person march evaporates, an unsavory military coup stands exposed.


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Offline Red Being

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Re: Egypt's second wave of the Revolution
« Reply #164 on: August 3, 2013, 11:53:14 am »
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/J5IadhVPvMs" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/J5IadhVPvMs</a>

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Re: Egypt's second wave of the Revolution
« Reply #165 on: August 3, 2013, 11:57:27 am »
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/J5IadhVPvMs" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/J5IadhVPvMs</a>
The same Al Jazeera who said that 3 million were in the square during the 2011 protests.
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Offline Red Being

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Re: Egypt's second wave of the Revolution
« Reply #166 on: August 3, 2013, 08:37:33 pm »
The same Al Jazeera who said that 3 million were in the square during the 2011 protests.


yeah...stick with the 33m...logic has no place in conspiracies.

Offline SadRed

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Re: Egypt's second wave of the Revolution
« Reply #167 on: August 4, 2013, 11:29:50 pm »
For those who say Pro Morsi sit ins are peaceful

http://www.amnesty.org/en/for-media/press-releases/egypt-evidence-points-torture-carried-out-morsi-supporters-2013-08-02

Amnesty and HRW has criticized the Army too, and for much graver crimes.  Army is much worse when it shoots down people hundereds of people. Surprisingly the people who were crying for an inclusive Egypt are supporting Sisi's call for 'eliminating the terrorists'.

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Re: Egypt's second wave of the Revolution
« Reply #168 on: August 5, 2013, 03:39:21 am »
Is a re-election out of the question?
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Re: Egypt's second wave of the Revolution
« Reply #169 on: August 5, 2013, 07:52:44 am »
Is a re-election out of the question?
No, after a new constitution.
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Re: Egypt's second wave of the Revolution
« Reply #170 on: August 5, 2013, 08:04:56 am »

yeah...stick with the 33m...logic has no place in conspiracies.
Not saying it's true, but if you can't see the true agenda behind Al Jazeera then you're deluded. The same Al Jazeera who put out anti Morsi protests as pro Morsi protests.
Amnesty and HRW has criticized the Army too, and for much graver crimes.  Army is much worse when it shoots down people hundereds of people. Surprisingly the people who were crying for an inclusive Egypt are supporting Sisi's call for 'eliminating the terrorists'.
Let's just see what did the English police do when riots erupted in London two years ago, oh, that doesn't rhyme with the agenda, because quite frankly when it came down to armed protests, everybody wanted the police to respond with a great power. How about the Waco siege, did the US care about human rights for what they deemed a terrorist compound, was it called a massacre back then.

I find it amazing, how you & your relatives only see one view and ignore the thousands of copts who are being killed or have their homes burnt by Morsi's supporters in Upper Egypt, human rights isn't important cause it doesn't rhyme with you preconceived concepts.
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Offline Packalacky

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Re: Egypt's second wave of the Revolution
« Reply #171 on: August 14, 2013, 09:44:05 am »
Let's just see what did the English police do when riots erupted in London two years ago, oh, that doesn't rhyme with the agenda, because quite frankly when it came down to armed protests, everybody wanted the police to respond with a great power. How about the Waco siege, did the US care about human rights for what they deemed a terrorist compound, was it called a massacre back then.

I don't recall them surrounding the protesters and opening fire, killing hundreds in the process. Maybe my memory is failing me...





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Re: Egypt's second wave of the Revolution
« Reply #172 on: August 14, 2013, 09:58:43 am »
I don't recall them surrounding the protesters and opening fire, killing hundreds in the process. Maybe my memory is failing me...
I would have believed that, if it weren't for the fact that I'm sitting on my home, watching events unfold right in front of me (I am pretty close to the sit ins) and I can see the MB trying to break into a police department using live ammunition just two buildings next to my home.
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Offline Packalacky

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Re: Egypt's second wave of the Revolution
« Reply #173 on: August 14, 2013, 12:23:50 pm »
I would have believed that, if it weren't for the fact that I'm sitting on my home, watching events unfold right in front of me (I am pretty close to the sit ins) and I can see the MB trying to break into a police department using live ammunition just two buildings next to my home.

No doubt the MB is also at fault for a lot of deaths, and I'm certainly not arguing for their case, I'm just stating the facts as I see them, without bias one way or the other. When they were in power there were multiple daily demonstrations without police interference. That is certainly not the case now with the army in power.

As for believing in it, it's not a question of seeing it with your eyes or not, it's about choosing to believe the stories coming out of the independent press or simply ignoring them, or viewing the MB as the "enemy" and thus not caring about their deaths (which from reading your posts seems to be your position), because the army is killing them, whether you choose to see it or not. Stories such as this one can't be easily ignored.

Offline Red Cez

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Re: Egypt's second wave of the Revolution
« Reply #174 on: August 14, 2013, 03:31:47 pm »
Surprised so little has been said on here about this. Tragic scenes in Cairo today.
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Re: Egypt's second wave of the Revolution
« Reply #175 on: August 14, 2013, 03:38:45 pm »
Surprised so little has been said on here about this. Tragic scenes in Cairo today.
What's tragic is what is happening in Upper Egypt where almost anything Christian is being torn down or burnt with little to no media attention.
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Offline Red Cez

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Re: Egypt's second wave of the Revolution
« Reply #176 on: August 14, 2013, 05:00:58 pm »
Reports of Doctors and  other medical staff being forced out of a hospital at gun point in Rabah by military officers. Seems like utter chaos in Cairo.

Also, Mohamed Elbaradei has reportedly stood down as Vice President of the interim government.
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Re: Egypt's second wave of the Revolution
« Reply #177 on: August 14, 2013, 05:13:48 pm »
OnTV shows protesters voluntarily leaving Raba sit in.

Baradei's resignation is an interesting one, I disagree with him on that as it gives a much worse image than what is really happening. To put it bluntly, if Baradei was a coach, he'd be perfect to coach a team full of stars into winning the Champions League, but he wouldn't know how to take a struggling team out of the relegation zone.
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Offline SadRed

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Re: Egypt's second wave of the Revolution
« Reply #178 on: August 14, 2013, 08:01:02 pm »
Not saying it's true, but if you can't see the true agenda behind Al Jazeera then you're deluded. The same Al Jazeera who put out anti Morsi protests as pro Morsi protests.Let's just see what did the English police do when riots erupted in London two years ago, oh, that doesn't rhyme with the agenda, because quite frankly when it came down to armed protests, everybody wanted the police to respond with a great power. How about the Waco siege, did the US care about human rights for what they deemed a terrorist compound, was it called a massacre back then.

I find it amazing, how you & your relatives only see one view and ignore the thousands of copts who are being killed or have their homes burnt by Morsi's supporters in Upper Egypt, human rights isn't important cause it doesn't rhyme with you preconceived concepts.

Dont twist what I say, I am not condoning any violence. I have never ignored anyone's rights, unlike what you keep saying, "CREATING AN INCLUSIVE SOCIETY" was merely a catchpharse, calling a large section of society terrorists and stupid. I do not support Morsi or MB, but I hate the Army more!! It has no place in democracy except protect the borders.

Thousands of Christians killed? What planet do you live in?? Thousands??!! Lets not bring religion into this, what is happening is disgraceful and unacceptable. You seem to accept hudereds of people killed on the streets, calling them terrosists when the only terrorist act I have seen are the army. Media reports what it sees, there are a large number of international media organisations in Egypt and I trust them than you frankly.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2013, 08:05:31 pm by SadRed »

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Re: Egypt's second wave of the Revolution
« Reply #179 on: August 17, 2013, 09:04:39 pm »
Dont twist what I say, I am not condoning any violence. I have never ignored anyone's rights, unlike what you keep saying, "CREATING AN INCLUSIVE SOCIETY" was merely a catchpharse, calling a large section of society terrorists and stupid. I do not support Morsi or MB, but I hate the Army more!! It has no place in democracy except protect the borders.

Thousands of Christians killed? What planet do you live in?? Thousands??!! Lets not bring religion into this, what is happening is disgraceful and unacceptable. You seem to accept hudereds of people killed on the streets, calling them terrosists when the only terrorist act I have seen are the army. Media reports what it sees, there are a large number of international media organisations in Egypt and I trust them than you frankly.
Like AlJazeera

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Offline Red Genius

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Re: Egypt's second wave of the Revolution
« Reply #180 on: August 18, 2013, 02:06:56 am »
It all seems like such a pointless exercise, muslims being slaughtered, christians being attacked and killed - all for what?

I'm entirely naive, and i'm happy to be educated and ridiculed... but is not the muslim god and christian belief connected, politics *should* be about attempting to represent everybody as best as possible by the majority however understanding and tolerant of the minority.

This just stinks of a power struggle to me (not like it isn't in most places in the world)

Pointless deaths in the name of religion or politics, completely makes me apathetic rather than dealing with real issues such as empowering people, working towards a collective goal and improve living standards and wealth.

It's a larger and far more complicated version of my mother shouting at me and my brother 'If you don't sort it out i'll bang your heads together' - but the principle applies in its simplicity.

Feel free to educate me however, i don't want to be ignorant.
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Re: Egypt's second wave of the Revolution
« Reply #181 on: August 18, 2013, 04:53:49 am »


saw this on facebook, muslims protecting a christian church apparently

its really not about beliefs though, it's about humanity, and its sad to see so many egyptians losing theirs

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Re: Egypt's second wave of the Revolution
« Reply #182 on: August 18, 2013, 05:36:01 am »
You're damn right - i used to live in Holland and was taught at an early age by a black american who lost his job due to prejudice, we are human beings for for fucks sake, what you believe in after that shouldn't be an issue unless is effects another human being.
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Offline Packalacky

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Re: Egypt's second wave of the Revolution
« Reply #183 on: August 18, 2013, 11:02:49 am »
Good article on the BBC.

Why it can be good to give in to your enemies

Not really about egypt, but about Democracy in general. A central point is this:

"...in a democracy we consent to be governed by people we dislike"


I thought it would be helpful to clarify what democracy is, considering some of the the posts in this thread such as:

You have 17 million people on the streets and the army is just acting in accordance with that - how can it possibly be a military coup?  As I understand it, Morsi only really got into office because of the way the system worked - bit like Camermoron and Cleggy boy, although I realise it's not the best comparison.

Fact is, we'd love to see our own government kicked out well before the next election - democracy has relatively little to do with it!!!

I hate Western leaders who parrot on about the "D" word as if it's sacrosanct;  for the most part it's just a green light for capitalist corruption by people who will do anything to mug the ignorant for their vote.

Excuse me, but we're not England. A country that kept Thatcher in office for 11 years then let the taxpayer fund her funeral isn't the best example to be used.

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Re: Egypt's second wave of the Revolution
« Reply #184 on: August 18, 2013, 04:53:41 pm »
ALERT From FPA Chairman

Dear colleagues members of the Cairo Foreign Press Association,

without taking sides in the internal conflict, I consider it our duty to make our members aware of a seriously increasing danger for our journalistic performance and even lives. Unfortunately, some of our colleagues succumbed to fatal attacks. They were not just victims of chaos or normal fire exchange, they had been fired at on purpose. Not by police or army officers, but by the selfproclaimed "peaceful demonstrators". Today I myself happily escaped a mean sniper attack on the 15 Mayo bridge at Zamalek. The criminal was not a policeman either, I have witnesses for that fact - normal Egyptian citizen bypassers.
I was not there for press coverage, but just heading for a coffee shop to meet friends.

It is outrageous what these agressive "protestors" committ. They attack people at random, attack their own state - attack public buildings and an ever increasing number of churches und houses and shops of christians. It is not my job as FPA chairman to bother you with political analyses, but I feel forced by my conscience and professional moral to express my strong disappointment that the war which the "protestors" fight against the state of our host country only scarcely finds an adequate due coverage. But it is never too late. Take care!

Volkhard Windfuhr
Chairman
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Re: Egypt's second wave of the Revolution
« Reply #185 on: August 18, 2013, 04:54:50 pm »


saw this on facebook, muslims protecting a christian church apparently

its really not about beliefs though, it's about humanity, and its sad to see so many egyptians losing theirs
I have to say these are not MB protesters these are people who are protecting the MB thugs from setting the church on fire.
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Re: Egypt's second wave of the Revolution
« Reply #186 on: August 18, 2013, 04:57:51 pm »
The true face of the Muslim Brotherhood

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Offline Thebigbrownbear

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Re: Egypt's second wave of the Revolution
« Reply #187 on: August 18, 2013, 05:45:25 pm »
Its insane. After they pillage, burn and destroy everything in sight and jump up and down on everything in joyous celebration they will be like "hmm well thats everything gone ...we certainly showed them" then we will have to send them a pile of aid money to help there sorry asses as they have destroyed their very infrastructure that enables them to exist.  My mate is running around with a gun so i want to join in the fun. Dumb neanderthal knuckle scraping morons

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Re: Egypt's second wave of the Revolution
« Reply #188 on: August 18, 2013, 06:21:59 pm »
Sometimes it seems to me that the MB would rather tear everything down and destroy it if they can't be in charge.
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Offline Packalacky

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Re: Egypt's second wave of the Revolution
« Reply #189 on: August 18, 2013, 09:19:57 pm »
Absolutely tragic scenes on a daily basis in Egypt, right now. Devastating for Egypt and Egyptians. It's hard to fathom what might come next. Surely all the bloodshed has to end soon?

Can't see the MB or the Army backing down any time soon. This will get worst before it gets better. There's a massive security hole that's being exploited by extremists and the Army feels they can do whatever they want without consequences.

The MB wil continue to have massive support, with a minority of extremists that will do whatever they are told, and the trigger happy Army ready to put them (and innocent people) down, which gives more PR ammunition to the MB.

It's a very vicious circle.

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Re: Egypt's second wave of the Revolution
« Reply #190 on: August 18, 2013, 10:22:55 pm »
Can't see the MB or the Army backing down any time soon. This will get worst before it gets better. There's a massive security hole that's being exploited by extremists and the Army feels they can do whatever they want without consequences.

The MB wil continue to have massive support, with a minority of extremists that will do whatever they are told, and the trigger happy Army ready to put them (and innocent people) down, which gives more PR ammunition to the MB.

It's a very vicious circle.

Couldn't have said it better my friend. I supported the army before but what the trigger-happy army (as you referred to them) did last week by killing up to 600 people will not help it in its fight to get rid of the MB. Vicious cycle indeed.
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Offline armchair-fan

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Re: Egypt's second wave of the Revolution
« Reply #191 on: August 18, 2013, 10:49:40 pm »
Can't see the MB or the Army backing down any time soon. This will get worst before it gets better. There's a massive security hole that's being exploited by extremists and the Army feels they can do whatever they want without consequences.

The MB wil continue to have massive support, with a minority of extremists that will do whatever they are told, and the trigger happy Army ready to put them (and innocent people) down, which gives more PR ammunition to the MB.

It's a very vicious circle.

Heard someone saying today, it confusing for us in 'the West' to know what to do in a situation where the liberals aren't democrats and the democrats aren't liberals.

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Re: Egypt's second wave of the Revolution
« Reply #192 on: August 19, 2013, 10:13:49 am »
Sometimes it seems to me that the MB would rather tear everything down and destroy it if they can't be in charge.
THIS THIS THIS THIS to infinity.
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Re: Egypt's second wave of the Revolution
« Reply #193 on: August 19, 2013, 10:14:50 am »
Heard someone saying today, it confusing for us in 'the West' to know what to do in a situation where the liberals aren't democrats and the democrats aren't liberals.
It's not like this though, not everyone who is against Morsi can be considered a "liberal" more like an everyday Muslim.
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Re: Egypt's second wave of the Revolution
« Reply #194 on: August 19, 2013, 10:16:05 am »
24 Army soldiers killed in Sinai on their way back home after finishing duty. The reaction from the army will be strong this time.
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Offline Packalacky

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Re: Egypt's second wave of the Revolution
« Reply #195 on: August 19, 2013, 07:16:40 pm »
Hosni Mubarak free within 48 hours, claims lawyer

Just when you thought things couldn't get more fucked up...

What are the odds of the military reinstating Mubarak as interim President to piss off the MB even more.

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Re: Egypt's second wave of the Revolution
« Reply #196 on: August 19, 2013, 07:19:18 pm »
Hosni Mubarak free within 48 hours, claims lawyer

Just when you thought things couldn't get more fucked up...

What are the odds of the military reinstating Mubarak as interim President to piss off the MB even more.
This case was ended with a compromise between the state (under Morsi) and Mubarak's lawyers and today was just the confirmation of it.

He will still die in jail though because of several other cases, so there isn't even a worry about that.
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Re: Egypt's second wave of the Revolution
« Reply #197 on: August 19, 2013, 07:29:23 pm »
Btw Y2J, what do you make of the Human Rights Watch report today?

Warning for the easily offended, report contains very graphic videos!

Quote
Report: Security Forces Used Excessive Lethal Force
Worst Mass Unlawful Killings in Country’s Modern History

Some pretty grim reading and shows just how brutal things have become. The video of the 3 men carrying a body, and being shot at and 1 of them killed is very hard to watch.  Reminds me of this:


« Last Edit: August 19, 2013, 07:40:29 pm by Packalacky »

Offline SadRed

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Re: Egypt's second wave of the Revolution
« Reply #198 on: August 20, 2013, 09:18:16 pm »
I cannot believe anyone can still support what the Army is doing. Killing of MB supporters almost seems 'justifiable' to some, i cannot for the life of me understand how people can think like this. 1000 people have been killed on the streets!!! If they were terrorsits, they did bloody well to win 5 elections!!!! If someone follows Patrick Kingsley on twitter, his coverage has been extraordinary and brave.

Mubarak now going to be free, and guess what they charge ElBaradei for betraying national trust! Hahaha. This is total madness. I wonder how  stupid all the people who supported the coup now feel. http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2013/08/201382013218872674.html

Its for the blind to see, all was perfectly staged, no one can challenge the status quo and powerful army in Egypt. There is no problem of a non inclusive government or any of the crap they came up with, its about how to destroy MB. Thats the reason they have 9 months before the elections. Nothign else. I cannot for the life of me understand how can people in Egypt like the Army, I would detest if the Army did what they do in Egypt. They have lost all wars despite their grandiose claims, and they have done is made money and rule the country with despots and their own people in charge.

I dont remember who said it but it seems apt - In democracy, people get the government they deserve. Egypt and all the supporters of the military may destroy MB  but in the process they will also end up destroying egypt itself.

Offline SadRed

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Re: Egypt's second wave of the Revolution
« Reply #199 on: August 20, 2013, 09:46:15 pm »
Like AlJazeera

http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DWeMXe6MB0gE&h=JAQFtfICt&s=1

Could you please answer any points if you wish to debate, because I really cannot be bothered to look at some random youtube/facebook videos? If you try to indicate some global media conspiracy, you are losing any credibility that you may have. It is stupid to suggest media will not report when one group of people gets killed over the other.