Topic: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!

[Draex]

But you're using Andy's claim that everyone he knows in Wythenshawe is a United fan as some sort of unimpeachable argument that couldn't possibly be disagreed with the keys to this thread have well and truly been handed over to the inmates (or is it patients?) In a couple of pages we'll have someone else state that Taylor grew up a Utd fan as a fact, and the fact that Andy knew exclusively Utd fans in Wythenshawe will be the supporting evidence, and JRed knowing that back in his day you only supported the same team as your parents (and his parents were definitely Utd fans, because they were from Wythenshawe) is equally conclusive, and Luton get lots of different refs but we don't, and that is why Taylor told Areola to go down.

It's all so self-perpetuating and conspiratorial when honestly, almost certainly, they're just quite shit at their jobs, have rubbish, informal processes and do whatever they can to try to cover their arses. We've been unlucky to be on the receiving end of a lot of the results of that -agreed - but if you truly believe they just won't let us win, unless you're going to do something about it, what's the fucking point?

Honestly Wythenshawe is a very very Man Utd loyal town, it's rough as fuck.

There is a reason Andy said Cheadle is full of City fans, middleclass wanker ville

[LFC_R_BOSS]

But you're using Andy's claim that everyone he knows in Wythenshawe is a United fan as some sort of unimpeachable argument that couldn't possibly be disagreed with the keys to this thread have well and truly been handed over to the inmates (or is it patients?) In a couple of pages we'll have someone else state that Taylor grew up a Utd fan as a fact, and the fact that Andy knew exclusively Utd fans in Wythenshawe will be the supporting evidence, and JRed knowing that back in his day you only supported the same team as your parents (and his parents were definitely Utd fans, because they were from Wythenshawe) is equally conclusive, and Luton get lots of different refs but we don't, and that is why Taylor told Areola to go down.

It's all so self-perpetuating and conspiratorial when honestly, almost certainly, they're just quite shit at their jobs, have rubbish, informal processes and do whatever they can to try to cover their arses. We've been unlucky to be on the receiving end of a lot of the results of that -agreed - but if you truly believe they just won't let us win, unless you're going to do something about it, what's the fucking point?

😂.

[markmywords]

The environment Taylor grew up in which was a staunch anti-Liverpool area is enough to disqualify him from refereeing Liverpool games. Even more so games involving a Manchester and Liverpool based team in direct opposition.

The vast majority of people from Manchester dislike scousers and especially Liverpool FC. That in itself is grounds for Manchester officials not to referee games involving Liverpool. It is the PGMOL who have come up with the absurd rule that it becomes okay if you put down on your form that you support a lower League or none League team.

I'm not sure this is viable, as ever many on this thread, don;t recognise that their claims of bias are echoed by supporters from most PL clubs. I'm sure there are southern/london based fans who would assert that most Northerners grow up with a dislike for all things London/metropolitan and will remember terms like cockney mafia/del boy/artur daley being thrown around toward them.  A bad decision or 2 might make them not want certain refs, also what about the supposed Yorkshire vs lancashire beef? I'm not sure how you can accept 1, without accepting the other. Social media and fan forum echo chambers can cause these sort of theories to spread like wild fire 

[WhereAngelsPlay]

I don't give a fuck about other clubs.

[JRed]

I'm not sure this is viable, as ever many on this thread, don;t recognise that their claims of bias are echoed by supporters from most PL clubs. I'm sure there are southern/london based fans who would assert that most Northerners grow up with a dislike for all things London/metropolitan and will remember terms like cockney mafia/del boy/artur daley being thrown around toward them.  A bad decision or 2 might make them not want certain refs, also what about the supposed Yorkshire vs lancashire beef? I'm not sure how you can accept 1, without accepting the other. Social media and fan forum echo chambers can cause these sort of theories to spread like wild fire

Winds me up this shit.
Comparing having titles stolen from us by the officials with the odd free kick or red card not given for other clubs that has ultimately cost them fuck all.
Which other club has been denied the PL title by the officials?

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Winds me up this shit.
Comparing having titles stolen from us by the officials with the odd free kick or red card not given for other clubs that has ultimately cost them fuck all.
Which other club has been denied the PL title by the officials?

And a fucking beach ball.

[Stevo]

Which other club has been denied the PL title by the officials?

Titles are decided over 38 games, officials haven’t denied anyone of titles.

The point is everyone is so blinkered that they just look at the decisions affecting their own clubs. Almost everyone feels aggrieved yet if you’re surrounded by people at your own club telling you the same thing it’s going to turn into something bigger and reinforce your own views.

The Rodri handball is a case in point. Let’s all focus on that and ignore every decision that season that went in our favour (go and watch the games back from 21/22 - there were several) and ignore any decision that went against our rivals. Yes, we’ve been screwed over with some decisions as well but it’s not exclusive to LFC.

[rob1966]

This isnt true, i worked in Stretford & then Walkden for about 5 years. The lads & girls in Stretford were all city, i was really shocked and they were ALL hardcore match goers. Stretford. A few man u in Walkden but about even.

This is my experience of Manchester. I've been in my job for 36 years, different roles down the years. I started as a driver late 1988 and did a lot of travel between our various Manchester branches, Trafford Park, Stretford, Openshaw, Ashton, Oldham etc and the massive majority of the lads and women supported Utd. There was the odd City, but very few and far between. When I moved into IT in 2001, I was based in an office just up the road from where I now live, and I honestly do not remember any City fans at all working in there. All the local pubs we used to go to for dinner are 100% Utd pubs. On our road, there are two city families, everyone else is Utd. My kids have 1 mate each who are City fans, a couple of Liverpool, everyone else Utd. For years I hardly saw a City shirt anywhere. Even when we moved our head office to Old Trafford and we filled it with over 300 people, the amount of City fans was negligible, there were a few, but not in great numbers.

Its only in the past 10 years that city shirts started appearing and I now work with a couple of city fans, both Project Managers and both from over Cheadle way. My missus was born here and through her I know two City fans, a Dad and lad, who shes known for years, in total I know about 10 city fans, I've two mates who are locals who are Liverpool fans and everyone else I know who is into footy is Utd.

As Draex and Andy have said, Wythenshawe is a heavy Utd area, I've had abuse when I was in Wythenshawe hospital after heart surgery for wearing Liverpool shorts in the hospital, my missus worked with loads from Wythenshawe, all reds, I've delivered to the likes of Tesco and Iceland in Wythenshawe, staff I chatted to mainly Utd. Worst I had was I was delivering to a Tesco, think it might have been the Stockport one, and Utd won the league as I was being unloaded and all the backdoor staff and people coming in and out of the back were celebrating, its was horrible.

[wah00ey]

Titles are decided over 38 games, officials haven’t denied anyone of titles.

The point is everyone is so blinkered that they just look at the decisions affecting their own clubs. Almost everyone feels aggrieved yet if you’re surrounded by people at your own club telling you the same thing it’s going to turn into something bigger and reinforce your own views.

The Rodri handball is a case in point. Let’s all focus on that and ignore every decision that season that went in our favour (go and watch the games back from 21/22 - there were several) and ignore any decision that went against our rivals. Yes, we’ve been screwed over with some decisions as well but it’s not exclusive to LFC.

I think the point here is that decisions can, and do, influence titles.  It's that tight.  We've been unlucky and during a number of seasons, the roll of the officials dice has actually determined where the trophy ended up.

[Eeyore]

Titles are decided over 38 games, officials haven’t denied anyone of titles.

The point is everyone is so blinkered that they just look at the decisions affecting their own clubs. Almost everyone feels aggrieved yet if you’re surrounded by people at your own club telling you the same thing it’s going to turn into something bigger and reinforce your own views.

The Rodri handball is a case in point. Let’s all focus on that and ignore every decision that season that went in our favour (go and watch the games back from 21/22 - there were several) and ignore any decision that went against our rivals. Yes, we’ve been screwed over with some decisions as well but it’s not exclusive to LFC.

You brought up the Rodri hand ball so can you list all the occasions when we have had a blatent handball not given because they couldn't find an angle. Can you lost all the occasions officials have forget what they were checking for an erroneously disallowed a perfectly good goal. All the occasions our players have handled the ball the way Odegaard did. All the times a ref has blown the whistle told a player to go to ground and brought on the physios.

As for decisions in the 21/22 season did you miss the Spurs game in which Sir Harry was allowed to stay on the pitch, Robbo was sent off and Jota was denied a stonewall penalty.

Or how about blowing for time early with a player through on goal. As for people being blinkered on here have you missed posters calling out the  way Wolves have been treated by the Pgmol.

[JRed]

Titles are decided over 38 games, officials haven’t denied anyone of titles.

The point is everyone is so blinkered that they just look at the decisions affecting their own clubs. Almost everyone feels aggrieved yet if you’re surrounded by people at your own club telling you the same thing it’s going to turn into something bigger and reinforce your own views.

The Rodri handball is a case in point. Let’s all focus on that and ignore every decision that season that went in our favour (go and watch the games back from 21/22 - there were several) and ignore any decision that went against our rivals. Yes, we’ve been screwed over with some decisions as well but it’s not exclusive to LFC.

What a bullshit post, if you don’t mind me saying. We’re not just talking 50/50 decisions that didn’t go our way, we are talking absolutely inexplicable decisions against our rivals. 6 point swings against Abu Dhabi and Arsenal, the spurs debacle etc etc etc.
can you name me one such decision that has gone against Abu Dhabi? Go on, just one will do…..

[thejbs]

Just to play devils advocate, I can. City v spurs. Simon Hooper pulled it back for a free on Haaland when Grealish was through on the keeper.

[JRed]

Just to play devils advocate, I can. City v spurs. Simon Hooper pulled it back for a free on Haaland when Grealish was through on the keeper.

Seriously? That’s the best you can do? Grealish through on keeper?
Have you actually watched it?
Grealish was around 35 yards from goal! He was well outside the penalty area with defenders closing him down! He was never getting anywhere near the keeper!

[spider-neil]

It's so weird that in the vast majority of games we play we have the lion's share of possession but give away the most fouls. Yesterday it was 10 fouls to 1 in Villa's favour in the first half.

[Red_Mist]

It's so weird that in the vast majority of games we play we have the lion's share of possession but give away the most fouls. Yesterday it was 10 fouls to 1 in Villa's favour in the first half.

It is very strange. Forget the big decisions that get all the analysis. If refs really wanted to stiff us without getting noticed, this is how they would do it. We notice of course, but it doesn’t make the headlines.

[Kalito]

Seriously? That’s the best you can do? Grealish through on keeper?
Have you actually watched it?
Grealish was around 35 yards from goal! He was well outside the penalty area with defenders closing him down! He was never getting anywhere near the keeper!

Aye, laughable shout that ...

[thejbs]

Seriously? That’s the best you can do? Grealish through on keeper?
Have you actually watched it?
Grealish was around 35 yards from goal! He was well outside the penalty area with defenders closing him down! He was never getting anywhere near the keeper!

You understand what devils advocate means, don’t you? Calm down!

[alonsoisared]

What a bullshit post, if you don’t mind me saying. We’re not just talking 50/50 decisions that didn’t go our way, we are talking absolutely inexplicable decisions against our rivals. 6 point swings against Abu Dhabi and Arsenal, the spurs debacle etc etc etc.
can you name me one such decision that has gone against Abu Dhabi? Go on, just one will do…..

You could argue their extremely softly disallowed goal against us at the Etihad lead to a 3 point swing given we went on to equalise. A very odd time for the refs to give us a friendly decision given they're apparently desperate to stop us winning the league.

That being said I think clearly they've been far more fortunate than us this season. They don't even out over a season. Hopefully we'll have a bit more luck next season.

[alonsoisared]

The Arsenal one being labeled a 6 point swing while mocking someone else's stance sums up the way this thread has gone. There's barely any point arguing back so people get more and more entrenched regardless of the actual reality of the situation. We scored minutes after the Odegaard handball didn't we? It was a shit decision but fortunately it didn't cost us. What cost us, as it did when things went to shit against United, Everton and Palace (you could also argue city at home) was poor finishing and not putting teams away. Trent should've won us the Arsenal game but he didn't.

[Fromola]

It is very strange. Forget the big decisions that get all the analysis. If refs really wanted to stiff us without getting noticed, this is how they would do it. We notice of course, but it doesn’t make the headlines.

Taylor is especially bad for this..can be even enough on the big calls but all the little calls go against us all game to disrupt us but he will give us a pen now and then.

The foul count doesn't help though for us as we've become too.slow as a team and lack ball winners. The likes of Endo and Mac can rarely win the ball without fouling as they've no pace. And opponents are adept at buying fouls/ diving. We're honest to a fault. Although it's clear we often don't get free kicks for the same situations as the opponents. Especially if it's Salah versus an English player.

[Eeyore]

You could argue their extremely softly disallowed goal against us at the Etihad lead to a 3 point swing given we went on to equalise. A very odd time for the refs to give us a friendly decision given they're apparently desperate to stop us winning the league.

That being said I think clearly they've been far more fortunate than us this season. They don't even out over a season. Hopefully we'll have a bit more luck next season.

"Extremely soft" and "Friendly" and "Fortunate"

This is where it gets silly. Akanji on Ali is about as clear a foul as you could see. Akanji makes no attempt whatsoever to play the ball.



He has grabbed the upper part of Ali's arm and pulled his left shoulder down. It only became soft because Carragher labeled it as soft. That is what we are up against a clear foul on a keeper that is given 100% of the time becomes soft and a drop ball becomes an international incident.

[Eeyore]

The Arsenal one being labeled a 6 point swing while mocking someone else's stance sums up the way this thread has gone. There's barely any point arguing back so people get more and more entrenched regardless of the actual reality of the situation. We scored minutes after the Odegaard handball didn't we? It was a shit decision but fortunately it didn't cost us. What cost us, as it did when things went to shit against United, Everton and Palace (you could also argue city at home) was poor finishing and not putting teams away. Trent should've won us the Arsenal game but he didn't.

The point with the Arsenal one is that yes we did score minutes later but only because we had a sustained period of playing with an unsustainable intensity. We get the penalty and score and we are level and haven't used up all that energy chasing the game. By the time we scored, we needed a breather. It is like a boxer who launches an all-out attack, put your opponent down early and you still have bags of energy left to finish him off. Put him down at the end of a sustained attack and you have to be far more cautious.

We may not have won that game 2-1 but we were denied a far better chance of doing so by an absolutely corrupt decision. Another example of the VAR lying to the referee about what he is seeing on screen.

The thing is our bad run started after a crushing last second defeat at the end of extra time. That only happens for me because Fernades gets away with the clearest second yellow card you will ever see. A high, late studs up challenge on Szobozslai as he was shooting that resulted in lengthy treatment. A challenge that could have easily ended up with a broken leg.



That for me was far worse than the challenge Jones was sent off for. To not even give a 2nd yellow is absolutely unforgivable. That was the second time we ended up playing extra time unnecessarily after Van Dijk's goal was ruled out in the League Cup final. So we played an extra hour because of refereeing decisions.

Fernades gets a second yellow and we almost certainly win that game in normal time. We get the boost of beating United away and for me, it makes the League game easier.

It isn't just the absolute shockers like the Diaz goal, the Odegaard hand ball, the Doku Kung Fu kick it is the continuous drip, drip, drip of being refereed differently that wears a team down. We have ended up playing right to the end of games to win them when we have had an absurd foul count go against us.

Look at Brentford away, we ended up with players being carried off left, right and centre against a team of over-physical giants. Even Klopp brought up the foul count. Brentford gave away 4 fouls in the entire 90 minutes in which they managed only 37% possession and were beaten 4-1. Liverpool committed 18 fouls. 

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Even after  season where we've been fucked over on an almost weekly basis, we still get the usuals arguing for the crooked bastards.

[stoa]

It isn't just the absolute shockers like the Diaz goal, the Odegaard hand ball, the Doku Kung Fu kick it is the continuous drip, drip, drip of being refereed differently that wears a team down. We have ended up playing right to the end of games to win them when we have had an absurd foul count go against us.

Look at Brentford away, we ended up with players being carried off left, right and centre against a team of over-physical giants. Even Klopp brought up the foul count. Brentford gave away 4 fouls in the entire 90 minutes in which they managed only 37% possession and were beaten 4-1. Liverpool committed 18 fouls. 

That's certainly an issue that gets overlooked too often when people focus on the big decisions going against us. It's a death by a thousand cuts. Players are getting more frustrated from week to week and you can kind of see it with Mo losing his rag much more often these days than when in his first years here. What is most egregious is when we get punished for one of those little fouls and basically right afterwards the opposition gets away with the same thing or even something worse. And stuff like that is not an exception for us, it's the norm these days. From time to time we get the odd game, where we seem to be treated the same as the opposition, but most of the time we aren't.

[rob1966]

That's certainly an issue that gets overlooked too often when people focus on the big decisions going against us. It's a death by a thousand cuts. Players are getting more frustrated from week to week and you can kind of see it with Mo losing his rag much more often these days than when in his first years here. What is most egregious is when we get punished for one of those little fouls and basically right afterwards the opposition gets away with the same thing or even something worse. And stuff like that is not an exception for us, it's the norm these days. From time to time we get the odd game, where we seem to be treated the same as the opposition, but most of the time we aren't.

Its what I've been saying about Taylor - he doesn't do anything blatant, but he does his best to disrupt our flow during the whole game and lets some bad tackles go.

[kavah]

It's so weird that in the vast majority of games we play we have the lion's share of possession but give away the most fouls. Yesterday it was 10 fouls to 1 in Villa's favour in the first half.

It's partly because they want the foul and we don't - McGinn the other night who loves to do the Didi Hamman thing and draw a foul and flopping down at the slightest contact. And also because refs love to give a foul against a forward (Mo Salah for example) because there is no Jeopardy in that position on the pitch. It so fucking frustrating to see Mo knock a 6'3" defender for six with his shoulder and get penalized and then a minute later gets fuck all when getting wrestled and held. I know we all see this every week but it helps to explain the discrepancy

[Eeyore]

Its what I've been saying about Taylor - he doesn't do anything blatant, but he does his best to disrupt our flow during the whole game and lets some bad tackles go.

For me, it is similar to how the bookmaking industry works. The bookmaker's small edge doesn't mean they win on every bet but given a big enough sample they will always come out on top.

Things like the bias of Manchester officials against us, the attitude of the PGMOL and City's owners paying the likes of Oliver means bar remarkable variance City will always come out on top in a 38 game season because of the edge they have.

[JRed]

"Extremely soft" and "Friendly" and "Fortunate"

This is where it gets silly. Akanji on Ali is about as clear a foul as you could see. Akanji makes no attempt whatsoever to play the ball.



He has grabbed the upper part of Ali's arm and pulled his left shoulder down. It only became soft because Carragher labeled it as soft. That is what we are up against a clear foul on a keeper that is given 100% of the time becomes soft and a drop ball becomes an international incident.

I had no idea what goal they were on about as I diidnt remember any soft goal foul. This pic explains why I couldn’t remember any such soft disallowed goal!

[rob1966]

I had no idea what goal they were on about as I diidnt remember any soft goal foul. This pic explains why I couldn’t remember any such soft disallowed goal!

Carra is a twat. As an Ex Keeper, I well know that someone does that to you, you're not catching the ball. Foul all day long.

[JRed]

Carra is a twat. As an Ex Keeper, I well know that someone does that to you, you're not catching the ball. Foul all day long.

Some people just want to be told what to believe don’t they?

[paisley1977]

we still get the usuals arguing for the crooked bastards.

They'll all be over in Abu Dhabi with the PGMOL crew for the end of season barbie.