Topic: Brexit - doesn't really seem to be a very good idea does it? (*)

[SP]

Reports on the news about Labour capping energy pricing. The whole piece fails to mention that the UK imports around 40% of its energy. Brexit crashed the pound, so bills go up.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

Reports on the news about Labour capping energy pricing. The whole piece fails to mention that the UK imports around 40% of its energy. Brexit crashed the pound, so bills go up.

to be fair labours leadership probably don't understand any of that

[ShakaHislop]

Stephen Crabb has basically said that even in post-Brexit Britain, immigration won't be reduced to the tens of thousands as the Government are targetting.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/feb/03/brexiters-face-rude-awakening-on-immigration-warns-ex-minister?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Tweet

[CornerFlag]

A result of what's happened or was going to happen anyway?  You decide.

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/man-arrested-after-racist-abuse-12559160#ICID=FB-MEN-main

[Lush is the best medicine...]

Stephen Crabb has basically said that even in post-Brexit Britain, immigration won't be reduced to the tens of thousands as the Government are targetting.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/feb/03/brexiters-face-rude-awakening-on-immigration-warns-ex-minister?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Tweet

yeah, but you'll get your country back.

[Alan_X]

Number of EU nurses coming to UK falls 90 per cent since Brexit vote

New figures show the number of nurses and midwives registering to work in Britain has fallen sharply Credit: PA

Laura Donnelly, Health Editor

25 January 2017 • 10:00pm

Nurses from Europe are turning their backs on Britain, according to new figures showing the number registering to work here since the Brexit referendum has fallen by 90 per cent.

Just 101 nurses and midwives from other European nations joined the register to work here last month - a drop from 1,304 in July, the month immediately after the referendum, official figures show.

"This is the first sign of a change following the EU referendum and it is our responsibility as the regulator to share these figures with the public"Jackie Smith, chief executive Nursing and Midwifery Council

The statistics from the Nursing and Midwifery Council (NMC) also show a rise in the number of EU nurses who have decided to stop working in the UK.

Last month, 318 decided to leave the NMC’s register - almost twice the 177 who did so in June, the month of the referendum.

Rest of the article here:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2017/01/25/number-eu-nurses-coming-uk-falls-90-per-cent-since-brexit-vote/

Fucking shambles...

[Peabee]

Number of EU nurses coming to UK falls 90 per cent since Brexit vote



Rest of the article here:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2017/01/25/number-eu-nurses-coming-uk-falls-90-per-cent-since-brexit-vote/

Fucking shambles...

We're also now charging our student nurses to study, which (correct me if I'm wrong) has led to fewer UK student nurses?   

(Off topic:)
Have you seen the deleted tweet by a Tory MP showing U.K. debt as % of GDP has increased since the Tories came into govt.  He shared it as 'proof' that debt rose under Labour, until he checked the dates...

And people see these as the most competent party to lead the country.  How is Corbyn not capitalising on this information?

[Red-Soldier]

Number of EU nurses coming to UK falls 90 per cent since Brexit vote



Fucking shambles...

Don't worry, we'll have British nurses instead 

[filopastry]

BBC have some more analysis of the patterns in the Leave/Remain vote, although there isn't anything particularly surprising in there.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38762034

[Danny Boys Dad]

We're also now charging our student nurses to study, which (correct me if I'm wrong) has led to fewer UK student nurses?   

Applications to nursing courses has dropped by 23% since the decision to turn bursaries into loans.

They expect it to bounce back a bit in future years but might still be less than required.

Also half the current workforce is due to reach retirement age around 2020 or shortly after

[Welshred]

It's not just nurses that it affects either. It's Physios, Occupational Therapists, Radiographers, Radiotherapists, all Allied Health Professionals that relied on having their tuition fees being paid by the NHS to keep their numbers up. They've all reported reductions in applications I believe.

[SamAteTheRedAcid]

BBC have some more analysis of the patterns in the Leave/Remain vote, although there isn't anything particularly surprising in there.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38762034

Nope, not surprising at all. Places with a more educated populace were more likely to vote Remain. Says it all really!

[west_london_red]

BBC have some more analysis of the patterns in the Leave/Remain vote, although there isn't anything particularly surprising in there.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38762034

The bit that stands out for me is the high ethnic origin areas in West London it mentions which voted Leave where as most areas with large numbers of ethnic minorities voted Remain. But based on my friends and family that doesn't surprise me, most people I know voted Leave if they did vote.

[ShakaHislop]

The council ward I live in was surprisingly close (47% Remain - 53% Leave), considering it appears to have a fair few elderly folk and I live in a city in which every ward voted to Leave, with a few in the 60% and 70% brackets.

On a national level, postal voting being narrowly Remain is a surprise to me. I assume most postal voters are OAPs who would prefer Leave. I guess a lot of pro-Remain expats utilised the postal vote.

[zebenzui]

BBC have some more analysis of the patterns in the Leave/Remain vote, although there isn't anything particularly surprising in there.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38762034

Dear lord the state of the comments on that article.

[So… Howard Philips]

It's like the label "remoaner". That odious little man Bill Cash was described as a veteran eurosceptic on the news, not "whiny little man who has done fuck all for the nation except moan for 40 years about being part of the Eu" !

And wear a baggy suit last seen on a physics teacher circa 1962.

[So… Howard Philips]

Don't worry, we'll have British nurses instead 

We'll probably go back to poaching them from Caribbean countries who seem to be able to train nurses and midwives.

[CornerFlag]

Nope, not surprising at all. Places with a more educated populace were more likely to vote Remain. Says it all really!

About to say the same!  Leavers, you're all thick bastards!  That's not me saying it, that's the data.  Honest.

[TheShanklyGates]

Trump, Erdogan and now Netanyahu. May certainly associating herself with all the right people these days...

[nick_8589]

A result of what's happened or was going to happen anyway?  You decide.

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/man-arrested-after-racist-abuse-12559160#ICID=FB-MEN-main

One of the best things in that is the guys assertion that his 77 year old grandad was in the Second World War, I know times we're desperate but I didn't know we had 5 year olds storming the beaches at Normandy.

These things really irk me though, fair enough filming him has lead to his arrest but could who ever had the camera not at least gone and sat next to the guy getting the abuse, people's willingness to passively sit by and watch this stuff astounds me, especially now these people seem to think they have a green light to abuse anyone vaguely foreign looking we need to stand up to them and we need to do it now, it'll only get worse in the next two years.

[Iska]

Nope, not surprising at all. Places with a more educated populace were more likely to vote Remain. Says it all really!

Maybe what it says is that if you don't have qualifications, you're the one who's most easily undercut by better-educated Eastern Europeans being willing to do your job for a while, while they work their way up.

[Haemoglobin]

One of the best things in that is the guys assertion that his 77 year old grandad was in the Second World War, I know times we're desperate but I didn't know we had 5 year olds storming the beaches at Normandy.

These things really irk me though, fair enough filming him has lead to his arrest but could who ever had the camera not at least gone and sat next to the guy getting the abuse, people's willingness to passively sit by and watch this stuff astounds me, especially now these people seem to think they have a green light to abuse anyone vaguely foreign looking we need to stand up to them and we need to do it now, it'll only get worse in the next two years.

I know, right. All part of the "don't get involved" sensible self-preservation culture of today I guess, but people on the light side will really be required to summon up more and more courage, as the hateful thugs are emboldened more and more by the current political tide.

The poor person clearly had to get off at the wrong stop in the end, all because no one had the grapes to actively show their support for him and stand up against that pissed mouthy cunt, who would've soon wound his neck in had there been a little resistance, not being able to take bystanders' cowed silence as a licence to carry on and escalate the abuse. Applies just as much in a wider sense for people who didn't vote (or even worse, voted Leave without fully understanding what they were signing us all up for) who now are expressing concerns about what's happening and what's going to happen.

[coops]

Maybe what it says is that if you don't have qualifications, you're the one who's most easily undercut by better-educated Eastern Europeans being willing to do your job for a while, while they work their way up.

This video is quite long but well worth a watch.  I thought he bought up some interesting points.

Mark Blyth, a Scottish political scientist professor at Brown Uni.



<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/Bkm2Vfj42FY?fs=1" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/Bkm2Vfj42FY?fs=1</a>

[filopastry]

Maybe what it says is that if you don't have qualifications, you're the one who's most easily undercut by better-educated Eastern Europeans being willing to do your job for a while, while they work their way up.

Oddly enough in spite of the narrative in the press, there is plenty of well educated overseas immigration from both inside and outside the EU, which competes successfully for jobs with all of us mollycoddled urban elites as well

[Bunter]

Some bloke in work today after I suggested negotiating as 1 against 27 might prove more tricky for the UK in even receiving parity on our current deal and with us being the ones in the weaker position of actually needing a new trade deal.

"Well they aren't going to stiff themselves out of the money they make selling more to us, they desperately need us and our cash and will need it even more when Germany is propping up the EU alone. Its about to collapse anyway.."

I'm concerned at how detached from reality these Brexiteers, the "just bloody get it done" brigade thinking that securing free trade deal is a simple as signing up for a broadband contract. It's so wonderful going it alone, nations individually falling over themselves to sort us out, don't know why every country isn't doing it.

[oldfordie]

Some bloke in work today after I suggested negotiating as 1 against 27 might prove more tricky for the UK in even receiving parity on our current deal and with us being the ones in the weaker position of actually needing a new trade deal.

"Well they aren't going to stiff themselves out of the money they make selling more to us, they desperately need us and our cash and will need it even more when Germany is propping up the EU alone. Its about to collapse anyway.."

I'm concerned at how detached from reality these Brexiteers, the "just bloody get it done" brigade thinking that securing free trade deal is a simple as signing up for a broadband contract. It's so wonderful going it alone, nations individually falling over themselves to sort us out, don't know why every country isn't doing it.

Common sense tells you it's more tricky, no problems for us, we like the deal and we take it,simple as that.
 We have to satisfy the views and priority's of 27 different countrys, each one has the power to veto every deal.
There are rumours the EU were ready to concede a bit on the FOM issue straight after the referndum which is obviously the biggest problem if we hope to make a deal.in theory 24 countrys could agree. eastern bloc and Poland in particular will veto. it's something they feel very strongly about.
Maybe your M8 thinks the EU negotiate a deal and it's passed when agreements reached, this is just a part of the process, the deal then goes forward for all 27 countrys to vote on. Canada negotiated for 7 yrs to get agreement on a deal only for a farting little country to veto it.

[TepidT2O]

[west_london_red]

I was on the bus this afternoon, sitting on the top deck with two people a few rows behind me. They were talking about being deported as one has a Polish passport and the other a Lithuanian one and what they need to do to stay here.

They were about 12 years old.

This is what we're doing to children in this country in 2017.

[lamad]

"Well they aren't going to stiff themselves out of the money they make selling more to us, they desperately need us and our cash and will need it even more when Germany is propping up the EU alone. Its about to collapse anyway.."

What I don't get is that many of those pro Leave rejoice at the prospect of the EU falling apart. There was also someone on here a few pages back who seemed to be... how to best put it... full of glee when saying Europe is doomed to fail anyway. Like they are looking forward to it, if only to say "see, I told you so, Europe can't work". Aren't these people aware that even with all its shortcomings the European project has been the deciding factor for peace and stability on this continent after hundreds of years with constant unrests and wars? Now a mere 72 years after WWII some appear ready to make the same stupid mistakes and some welcome it???

Plus, even looking at it from a purely economics standpoint this line of thinking makes no sense whatsoever: So Great Britain thinks it will get better deals outside the EU, with other countries but also with the EU itself (if you would not want any deal with the latter, then there'd be no need to negotiate at all). Let's pretend for a moment that that will work out - then wouldn't a functioning EU be in the UK's best interest? If everything goes to shit right outside the doorstep of your tiny island, what good will that do? If twenty plus countries become politically unstable and their economies get into trouble? The UK sees itself as a potent partner for a potent market, but at the same time many seem to wish the whole European system crashes. Is it just me not getting it or where is the logic in this?

[rafathegaffa83]

Reports on the news about Labour capping energy pricing. The whole piece fails to mention that the UK imports around 40% of its energy. Brexit crashed the pound, so bills go up.

Yep. Ofgem recently said they want the Big Six to start absorbing higher costs. Can't see that happening, especially since Britain relies so heavily on electricity and gas imports from Continental Europe and overseas.

[oldfordie]

What I don't get is that many of those pro Leave rejoice at the prospect of the EU falling apart. There was also someone on here a few pages back who seemed to be... how to best put it... full of glee when saying Europe is doomed to fail anyway. Like they are looking forward to it, if only to say "see, I told you so, Europe can't work". Aren't these people aware that even with all its shortcomings the European project has been the deciding factor for peace and stability on this continent after hundreds of years with constant unrests and wars? Now a mere 72 years after WWII some appear ready to make the same stupid mistakes and some welcome it???

Plus, even looking at it from a purely economics standpoint this line of thinking makes no sense whatsoever: So Great Britain thinks it will get better deals outside the EU, with other countries but also with the EU itself (if you would not want any deal with the latter, then there'd be no need to negotiate at all). Let's pretend for a moment that that will work out - then wouldn't a functioning EU be in the UK's best interest? If everything goes to shit right outside the doorstep of your tiny island, what good will that do? If twenty plus countries become politically unstable and their economies get into trouble? The UK sees itself as a potent partner for a potent market, but at the same time many seem to wish the whole European system crashes. Is it just me not getting it or where is the logic in this?

Hard to figure,I agree, maybe the effect of this crash and how long it lasts will be justified as a price worth paying. question still remains, how deep and how long would the economic fall out last.
Another consideration would be every country's reaction to this crash, would it be lets all go it alone and every man for himself. I doubt it. alliances would be formed,deals would be done,,your either out in the cold or you join the alliance, pretty soon the alliance gets bigger and a new reformed EU under a different name pops up again. politics never goes away

[killer-heels]

All 4 amendments tabled today were not voted through today and won by the Government.

One was a Labour one asking for a bi monthly update on negotiations.

[ShakaHislop]

Latest rumours are that Labour are still looking to impose another 3-line whip for the final Commons Article 50 vote on Wednesday.
https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/828677513194921984

[Trada]

I wish I watched the first day of the debate looks very heated.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/Nj_Gyo4bDLE" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/Nj_Gyo4bDLE</a>

[cloggypop]

Parliament are getting a vote on the terms.

@BBCBreaking: UK MPs and peers will get to vote on final Brexit deal ahead of European parliament, minister announces http://trib.al/89GN28e

[Danny Boys Dad]

Parliament are getting a vote on the terms.

@BBCBreaking: UK MPs and peers will get to vote on final Brexit deal ahead of European parliament, minister announces http://trib.al/89GN28e

What the government are saying though is that Parliament gets a vote on the terms but the alternative is no deal, not no brexit. The choice is between whatever the government negotiate and the WTO fallback position

[killer-heels]

What the government are saying though is that Parliament gets a vote on the terms but the alternative is no deal, not no brexit. The choice is between whatever the government negotiate and the WTO fallback position

So how is that different to what May has offered already?

[killer-heels]

No difference but allows some people to pat each other on the back and make out they have done well

You and your 'people' again. You sound like Donald Drumpf

Labour are stupid on this. So we go back to Europe and try to get a better deal? Thats not going to work because the Europeans will just say no thanks you either accept the deal or WTO. We are not spending 2 more years debating this.

[ShakaHislop]

So how is that different to what May has offered already?

Exactly. It's cringeworthy to see some people (as I have on Twitter) spin this as a "victory"

[oldfordie]

IDS going off on one again, how some EU countrys are under pressure from potato company's to give the UK a good deal. IDS certain the EU will give us this deal as they will pay a price if they dont.
He must know why this wont happen, we are going to have to give up control of freedom of movement. 23 countrys may want to give us a deal badly. only takes 1 to veto and no deal.
Watched hours of these debates. all talking about how we will or wont get a good deal. ive not heard one MP raise the biggest problem of all. are the government prepared to give up control of freedom of movement. shhhh nobody mention it.