Topic: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance

[deano2727]

It was fun while it lasted.

Nobody expected us to win a title this year until we entered 2024. We haven't been at the quality of Arsenal or City for much of this season. We've relied on late wins, and scraping through games.

Thanks for my best years following football, Klopp.

Let's see what the future holds. Best of luck to Arne Slot or whoever has those big boots to fill.

[johnathank]

Something went horribly wrong and I don’t know what. There was a feel good factor then that disappeared pretty rapidly.

I’m not blaming him, but I will always wonder how this season would have finished if Quansah doesn’t play that pass. Feels like we never really got back up from that.

[Nick110581]

I’m not blaming him, but I will always wonder how this season would have finished if Quansah doesn’t play that pass. Feels like we never really got back up from that.

I said pre game that it was important we stuck together if we didn’t beat them.

But people lost their heads and seems it impacted the players too.

[Jookie]

As if any Liverpool fan would turn on Klopp.

People won’t turn on Klopp.

It’ll be more people saying it’s the right time for a change. Particularly if we stumble to 77-80 points with another defeat or 2 before the end of the season.

That type of attitude would have been unfathomable 6 weeks ago. I think everyone will be appreciative of what Klopp has done but you can hear whispers already of people thinking a managerial change may not be the worse thing at this point.

[spider-neil]

Klopp should be lauded for challenging for the league until April despite the ridiculous amount of injuries rather than chastised because he couldn't get it over the line.
You only have to imagine what it would be like if we had Arsenal's luck with injuries this season.

[duvva 💅]

I’m not blaming him, but I will always wonder how this season would have finished if Quansah doesn’t play that pass. Feels like we never really got back up from that.

That’s a bit harsh. There are any number of moments we could point to. We haven’t been playing that well for a while, even if that hadn’t happened there’s nothing to say the performance last night or against Atalanta in the first leg wouldnt have happened anyway.

For me it’s all the injuries, although we’ve got players back now they’re taking time to get up to speed and have missed important matches. We’ve lost the rhythm and the familiarity of them playing together.

Meanwhile other players form seems to have dipped which could be due to injury or having the knowledge that Klopp was finishing (not his fault). Also a completely rebuilt midfield which has had to be chopped and changed due to the injuries has definitely not helped.

Who knows, but I don’t think there is one reason, more a combination of factors

[Bennett]

The biggest difference between us and Arsenal is that they both have a core of players that play the vast majority of games. I've never known a title side where you have no clue who the best XI is. We played a different midfield from Fulham to Everton. I understand the need to keep the players fresh but it felt very unsustainable.

If I have one criticism of Klopp as well, it would be that he hasn't really rewarded form players with more playing time. I would put both Elliott and Gomez in our Top 5 players of the season and both are lucky to ever start a game.

[GarciaAndNunezNunezNunez]

We are absolutely the 3rd best team in the league. We are an okay-good team. Arsenal and Man City are very good teams.

The media have tried to big up the '3 way title race' but two haven't even made the Champions league semi's and one didn't even make the Europa League semi's

[kloppismydad]

[Avens]

Klopp should be lauded for challenging for the league until April despite the ridiculous amount of injuries rather than chastised because he couldn't get it over the line.
You only have to imagine what it would be like if we had Arsenal's luck with injuries this season.

Absolutely. I think that ultimately we overachieved for a lot of this season and the squad isn't quite at the level we hoped it was about a month or two ago. That overachievement is down to Klopp and the players. It's faded away unfortunately, but we've battled well considering the major changes in the summer, the injury crisis and some pretty costly refereeing mistakes. Ultimately it'll prove a good season, sadly not the spectacular one Klopp deserves to go out on.

[Bennett]

The media have tried to big up the '3 way title race' but two haven't even made the Champions league semi's and one didn't even make the Europa League semi's

What has that got to do with anything?

[M7 Heckler]

Mornign everyone. I dont see what all the fuss is about, its just a bunch of blokes kicking a sack of air around.

[Bennett]

Mornign everyone. I dont see what all the fuss is about, its just a bunch of blokes kicking a sack of air around.

[na fir dearg]

You have to be pretty much injury free to win the league - at some points most of our first 11 were out at the same time, for weeks. The fact that we are where we are in the table is remarkable considering

[Clint Eastwood]

People won’t turn on Klopp.

It’ll be more people saying it’s the right time for a change. Particularly if we stumble to 77-80 points with another defeat or 2 before the end of the season.

That type of attitude would have been unfathomable 6 weeks ago. I think everyone will be appreciative of what Klopp has done but you can hear whispers already of people thinking a managerial change may not be the worse thing at this point.

I was devastated when Klopp announced his departure and I couldn’t understand it. I’m more accepting of it now though, the reasons he cited for quitting - that he was mentally and physically exhausted - have been increasingly reflected in our performances and his demeanour. He saw it coming and he told us such when externally he seemed rejuvenated. With that in mind, I think it is right for change.

[BoRed]

You have to be pretty much injury free to win the league - at some points most of our first 11 were out at the same time, for weeks. The fact that we are where we are in the table is remarkable considering

The irony is that we did just fine while coping with those injuries, it's since most of them are back that we're struggling. The injuries have clearly taken a toll on their form, yet some of them are too important to be dropped for youngsters. I have to think back to the League Cup final and the scenes of all those injured players celebrating the winner. Nunez, Salah, Szoboszlai, Jones, they've all been underperforming in recent weeks.

[na fir dearg]

The irony is that we did just fine while coping with those injuries, it's since most of them are back that we're struggling. The injuries have clearly taken a toll on their form, yet some of them are too important to be dropped for youngsters. I have to think back to the League Cup final and the scenes of all those injured players celebrating the winner. Nunez, Salah, Szoboszlai, Jones, they've all been underperforming in recent weeks.

Fair

[kermit^^]

This thread should be renamed to....Hopefully we'll get a champion league spot

And instead letting the youngsters play once we secure CL spot, should let them have a go now. Hopefully they can help to secure CL spot.

[Zimagic]

I watched the Bournemouth game tonight. They played better football than we have for a while to be fair to them. I don't think Villa or Spurs are better than us but they have fitter squads and are in better form.

Part of what allows teams like Bournemouth to play like they did last night is that teams are not afraid of them and come out to play. That gives B'mouth the option to sit back or attack, or press or whatever, finding space is less if an issue for them and against them.

Everyone but 1-2 teams sit back in a low block of 9 (4-1-4) against us. This restricts what we can do and gives us the "Backs Vs Forwards" style of game that we saw last night, Vs ManU, Vs Luton, Vs Atalanta, Vs everyone else.

Part of what we have to sit though is enticing the opposition to come out. If they don't want to, we have to craft a way through ourselves. And convert our chances. We've been singularly bad at this recently.

[mighty magpie]

Top 4 is secure, not mathematically at the moment but at end of season 74 points will likely be enough when spurs and villa drop a few points. Their ceilings are 78.

Play Danns, Gakpo, Gravenberch, Clark.

[Son of Spion]

I was devastated when Klopp announced his departure and I couldn’t understand it. I’m more accepting of it now though, the reasons he cited for quitting - that he was mentally and physically exhausted - have been increasingly reflected in our performances and his demeanour. He saw it coming and he told us such when externally he seemed rejuvenated. With that in mind, I think it is right for change.

I'm fully behind his decision, based on his reasons. Klopp is a highly astute, highly self-aware man. He knows he's burnt out. He knew this was coming. With hindsight I'm now surprised he don't go after last season, because that clearly took a massive toll on him.

Personally, I think he's done well to see this season out. Very well indeed if you add in the probable top three and the trophy he has in the cabinet already. His more rejuvenated look earlier this season was probably down to him knowing he was finishing up this season and getting a thoroughly deserved rest with his family. In effect, that safety valve had released at least some of the pressure he was feeling.

The man is doing right by himself, his family and his football club and our fans. He's leaving because he loves us. We love him right back, too, and always will.

[cornishscouser92]

He's done very well to keep Liverpool in the title race for as long as he has with the squad Liverpool have. Sadly, moving away from the data led approach to signings has badly let the team down.

[harleydanger]

Arsenal losing will both excite me and enrage me

[RainbowFlick]

we mentally lost this at Old Trafford and all-but-completely lost it at Goodison. that is an unbelievably sad ending for one of our greatest managers. he deserved way better and has been let down.

going to be a bleak summer where i'll have to not think of football at all lol

[AndyMuller]

It was fun while it lasted eh.

[butchersdog]

Despite the inevitable disappointment, we’ve been spoilt this season. Everyone thought this was going to be a transition year at the start, a rebuild. Jurgen gave us a hell of a ride instead, and a trophy, but sadly the wheels have come off. Much more than I could have hoped for last summer. There should be no criticism. Mark of the man that he got us this far.

[Nick110581]

we mentally lost this at Old Trafford and all-but-completely lost it at Goodison. that is an unbelievably sad ending for one of our greatest managers. he deserved way better and has been let down.

going to be a bleak summer where i'll have to not think of football at all lol

Been let down by the same players that have got him here.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

It’s over.

Just hope people don’t turn on Klopp.

Something went horribly wrong and I don’t know what. There was a feel good factor then that disappeared pretty rapidly.

It went wrong when Klopp announced he was off. There is a bond between Liverpool managers and Liverpool fans.

Once he announced that then the bond was broken. It hasn't felt the same since. He's chosen to leave, which is his right, but we as fans don't get to choose to leave.

When all is said and done Managers, owners, players and staff come and go, but the fans remain and he broke the bond.

[AndyMuller]

It went wrong when Klopp announced he was off. There is a bond between Liverpool managers and Liverpool fans.

Once he announced that then the bond was broken. It hasn't felt the same since. He's chosen to leave, which is his right, but we as fans don't get to choose to leave.

When all is said and done Managers, owners, players and staff come and go, but the fans remain and he broke the bond.

Can't argue with that.

Still pisses me off the timing of it all.

[danm77]

Arsenal losing will both excite me and enrage me

I bloody hope they lose. Couldn't bear it if they won the league. City winning is meaningless anyway due to 115.

[Son of Spion]

Despite the inevitable disappointment, we’ve been spoilt this season. Everyone thought this was going to be a transition year at the start, a rebuild. Jurgen gave us a hell of a ride instead, and a trophy, but sadly the wheels have come off. Much more than I could have hoped for last summer. There should be no criticism. Mark of the man that he got us this far.

If we'd have started the season shakily, then went on to put a trophy on the shelf and bag a Champions League place then the vast majority of us would be calling the season a success.

Given that it is a transitional season, with an injury-prone squad, a mentally and physically exhausted manager, and we're up against a nation state and a clearly hostile PGMOL, we've actually over-performed, although it does feel like we have.

[Nick110581]

It went wrong when Klopp announced he was off. There is a bond between Liverpool managers and Liverpool fans.

Once he announced that then the bond was broken. It hasn't felt the same since. He's chosen to leave, which is his right, but we as fans don't get to choose to leave.

When all is said and done Managers, owners, players and staff come and go, but the fans remain and he broke the bond.

Why didn’t our form fall off a cliff immediately then ?

[Macc77]

People won’t turn on Klopp.

It’ll be more people saying it’s the right time for a change. Particularly if we stumble to 77-80 points with another defeat or 2 before the end of the season.

That type of attitude would have been unfathomable 6 weeks ago. I think everyone will be appreciative of what Klopp has done but you can hear whispers already of people thinking a managerial change may not be the worse thing at this point.

It's not exactly out of line to think a change may be needed when the man himself definitely believes a change is needed. Nobody would have objected to Jurgen doing another 10 years if he wanted to do so, but once a manager knows he has run out of steam it is time for a change.

Nobody wants to see this man ruining his health or well-being doing this job, if he's done we need to respect it and move on, so a change is needed.

Doesn't mean we're happy with that change though.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Why didn’t our form fall off a cliff immediately then ?

Not sure what you mean? To matchgoing fans - well I can only talk about myself and my friends - everything was different immediately.

We had some momentum and that's stalled now. I've seen us having properly shite teams at Goodison and I've seen us lose there before, but the whole crowd was dejected, depressed and fed up - the quietest I've ever seen us.

Obviously we can see us getting fucked up the arse by PGMOL again, but that spark of 'next season' and 'we go again' was gone. Kloppp - a great manager for us is going - uncertainty and a path that seems to be going down a rabbit hole is all that is left.

The players looked fed up. I wasn't even angry. It was just acceptance. Like the fucking loons saying they believed that we were going to win the league when we can't even beat the worst United side of the last 50 years and can't even beat fucking Everton. No idea what fucking la-la land they are in, but I suspect they don't go to the game.

[Nick110581]

Not sure what you mean? To matchgoing fans - well I can only talk about myself and my friends - everything was different immediately.

We had some momentum and that's stalled now. I've seen us having properly shite teams at Goodison and I've seen us lose there before, but the whole crowd was dejected, depressed and fed up - the quietest I've ever seen us.

Obviously we can see us getting fucked up the arse by PGMOL again, but that spark of 'next season' and 'we go again' was gone. Kloppp - a great manager for us is going - uncertainty and a path that seems to be going down a rabbit hole is all that is left.

The players looked fed up. I wasn't even angry. It was just acceptance. Like the fucking loons saying they believed that we were going to win the league when we can't even beat the worst United side of the last 50 years and can't even beat fucking Everton. No idea what fucking la-la land they are in, but I suspect they don't go to the game.

But why has it taken 2 months for this to take effect? He announced his intention to leave in January.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

But why has it taken 2 months for this to take effect? He announced his intention to leave in January.

I already answered this.

Momentum.

Perhaps you should look the word up.

[kaesarsosei]

I refuse to get too negative about this season (assuming we do not completely implode and not finish 3rd  ). And I'll be honest, I'd rather be out of it with 4 games to go than another final-day disappointment.

I don't care what anyone says, the fact we would have taken any trophy + third place at the start has to factor into how we review the season. We will have CL next season, Man U, Chelsea, Newcastle and probably Spurs won't. We have a good core of players that doesn't need a complete overhaul like United. The squad is much better balanced than Chelsea, and bigger/deeper in most positions than Villa, Spurs or Newcastle (arguably we have better depth than Arsenal who have been incredibly lucky with injuries). And as we head into the summer, the negative of Klopp leaving is at least offset by the excitement of seeing how we change under a new manager, what players benefit, do our targets change etc. We look to have more teenagers on the brink of being first-team ready than any of our rivals.

I'm just as upbeat after this season as I was after 2022 when we won the cup double and just missed out on 2 other trophies in horrible circumstances.

[Nick110581]

I already answered this.

Momentum.

Perhaps you should look the word up.

Your post makes no sense as you said it was different immediately.

If that was the case then we wouldn’t have had momentum.

[Son of Spion]

It went wrong when Klopp announced he was off. There is a bond between Liverpool managers and Liverpool fans.

Once he announced that then the bond was broken. It hasn't felt the same since. He's chosen to leave, which is his right, but we as fans don't get to choose to leave.

When all is said and done Managers, owners, players and staff come and go, but the fans remain and he broke the bond.

Is that just your disappointment and frustration showing, Andy, or do you really think that's the case?

I've not got the impression that the bond was/is broken. That's just my perspective though, so I can't speak for anyone else there. For me, it's actually strengthened my bond with him. Reason being that he's leaving because he loves us. He knows he can't give the required focus and intensity anymore because he's burnt out. He refuses to shortchange us by staying and going through the motions.

I think we've faltered due to exhaustion. Probably mental rather than physical. Relentless injuries and the doings of a clearly hostile PGMOL have also put the icing on the cake.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Your post makes no sense as you said it was different immediately.

If that was the case then we wouldn’t have had momentum.

Fuck me. Read my fucking post.

It fucking was for me - for my mates.

The team still had momentum.


You're just taking the fucking piss now mate.