Topic: Employed / Self Employed

[K1RKY]

Ever since I started working i've ALWAYS been employed by a company.

Im currently employed by an electrical contracting company.
As a result of "the industry" being slow the company are laying people off.

Im now at the age where i'm either gonna make the decision to go self employed and earn good money or i'll let the decision pass and get another job where im employed by a company earning ok money.

Feels a bit like the edge of the cliff scenario where if you take the leap and it pays off then your flying but if it doesnt then you land flat on your face!

Has anyone else been in this position?

If your a litle older and could have, but didnt coz you was unsure, do you now regret it?

Or are there any Self Employed Electricians on here who could give me any advice?

Cheers

[spen71]

I am self-employed and it has it good days and bad days.  It is nice being able to start and finish when you want but doing the tax at the end of the year can be a right nightmare.

[K1RKY]

I am self-employed and it has it good days and bad days.  It is nice being able to start and finish when you want but doing the tax at the end of the year can be a right nightmare.

So can being employed thou mate, and the thing is (especially with what I do) even when your employed, coz im doing contracts work when the contracts run out and no new jobs are took on, it's the likes of me who end up looking for another employer.

[Djibriliant]

You wont be employed at all if you carry on posting on RAWK at 10:52 on a Thursday

[spen71]

Sounds like you should go on your own mate.  Advertise is the free local paper.  Get the doors of your car signpainted, put leaflets through doors and in the local shops.  People will always need electricians as most people are scared shitless of electric.

You have 3 months to register with the inland revenue so give it a try.

[K1RKY]

You wont be employed at all if you carry on posting on RAWK at 10:52 on a thursday;)

Ha ha, it's since they told me I wont have a job in a months time that i've been posting on RAWK of a daytime 

[Grobbelrevell]

Not electricians but i have a few mates who are self employed doing various things. They can earn some good money and obviously can set there own hours without having anyone else to answer to etc.

However, they do have good and bad periods. One of them for example, was turning work away just prior to xmas but for the last two months has had barely any work at all (its just starting to pick up again).

As has been said, there are positives in the fact that you can earn much better money, but on the negative side, your income at the end of the month is not guarenteed, if you get no work, you get no money.

If it were me id do it though (but might depend on what commitments you have etc).

If you dont give it a try will you regret it though? Thats the key question.

[ben]

i would defo do it. i'm fucking sick to death of the fact that i have a certain amount of holiday time every year. makes me sick thinking of it. '25 fucking days'. what a joke.

defo do it. i'd do it myself but i don't have a trade. it'll be tough and a bit stressful at times, but i hate answering to people, i hate having to get up at a certain time, and i hate the fact that i cant fuck off to thailand for a month on a whim.

defo do it.

[Doc Evil]

My brother in law is a self employed sparky working on contracts, the biggest difference for him seems to be the amount of outside work he can bring in. If you go self employed and your previous employer still keeps your details you might find yourself still being able to do stuff for them and doing outside work etc.

Get yourself in the local paper, Yellow pages for next year, contact all the other companies (competitors your co used to wok against etc) and basically try it as a self employed sparky. If you have some savings to ride out a couple of months or so then that will make a massive difference. If you don't then get into another permie role and start to set things in motion for going self employed next year.

A decent Yellow Pages ad will work wonders, particularly if you are qualified, able to do certs, what kind of other things you can do (such as pat testing, alarm work etc), get it all on there and make it professional looking.

All usual caveats apply - it's just advice, don't know your personal circumstances etc, but yeah, all things being equal, that would be my advice.

[AndoNagasaki]

You say you're working for an electrical contractor.  Are you house-bashing or are you doing more industrial installations (or both)?  The more strings to your bow the better.

Are you 17th Edition qualified yet?  If not try and get it done ASAP mate.  How about Part P and NICEIC registered?

A good way of getting yourself known independently would be to let it known to other more established sparks in your area that you could sub-contract for them if they were too busy, or needed a hand with a large project.  Don't be fooled into thinking advertising is the only way.  Some sparks I know don't advertise at all, they get jobs from their reputation.

As far as self employed goes, I'm self employed and wouldn't work any other way (Electrical Engineer).  If you do choose to go down this route, allow time to sort out the hassle of paperwork, insurances, HMRC issues.  Also get a good accountant as that will save you a lot of headaches.

[Jason McG]

I've been both, the holidays thing is great in principle but I don't know many self-employed people who take 25 days a year holiday, there's always something you need to do. During the first couple of years I took two weeks in total, one week each year. It depends on your mentality but if you're not diciplined you won't get paid, if you're on holiday you don't get paid.

It's not all great but as you said, neither is being employed. On the whole I'm glad I'm self employed but that doesn't stop me sometimes thinking 'I'd fucking love to take a holiday and get paid'.

[K1RKY]

You say you're working for an electrical contractor.  Are you house-bashing or are you doing more industrial installations (or both)?  The more strings to your bow the better.

Are you 17th Edition qualified yet?  If not try and get it done ASAP mate.  How about Part P and NICEIC registered?

No mate always done industrial work really, done the occassional bit of house work for family and that.

Not Part P or NICEIC registered, with the new rules and regs dont you need these so that you can self certify your own work?
Otherwise, as far as I understand any work that is done makes their home insurance void should they have to claim?

Suppose this is a good thing in a way as it stops people having work done by John Wayne and being ripped off for it!

[eLVIScOSTELLO]

Hi mate.

If you're gonna do work for building contractors etc make sure you sort out your CIS registration before you go self employed. No one in the building industry can pay you without having your UTR (unique tax ref) and getting you verified by HMRC.

Some unscrupulous types will let you do the work, then hit you with the old "Sorry mate cant pay you-Inland Revenue rules and all that". Technically they're right, but the c*nts shouldnt even let you on site without all your CIS stuff. Can cause major payment delays, so get it all sorted first-doesnt take long, just a trip down to Regian House on James St (assuming youre not an OOT of course, in which case you just need to go to whichever office is local to you!) and a brief interview with one of the tax bods-nothing to it.

As someone else has already said, you'll need PL Insurance, a good accountant etc etc. The trick is to have it all sorted before you actually start-makes life 10 times easier.

[Fat Tony]

I'm self employed as an electricians mate at the moment. Picking up between £450 - £600 a week which I'm happy with for now. Luckily for me it's my uncles firm that I subby for so theres always work there.

Finish my 2330 next year then starting 2391 Testing and Inspection, thats where all the money is in this game.

Do you live in Liverpool KIRKY? There shitloads of work going on, I can't believe you'd be getting laid off.

[Hinesy]

I've always been self employed and the first two years you never say no to work so the holiday thing is shite.

That said, you also don't get paid holidays, sick pay, and a host of other stuff. And if you start employing people you have a massive responsibility to them.

But I love it. I wouldn't have it anyother way. Pay's better, you can eventually turn down wankers and you have a big variety.
BUT if you do, a)get a shit hot accountant and b) a.

[K1RKY]

I'm self employed as an electricians mate at the moment. Picking up between £450 - £600 a week which I'm happy with for now. Luckily for me it's my uncles firm that I subby for so theres always work there.

Finish my 2330 next year then starting 2391 Testing and Inspection, thats where all the money is in this game.

Do you live in Liverpool KIRKY? There shitloads of work going on, I can't believe you'd be getting laid off.

No mate dont live there now, grew up there all my life till my family decided to move and I was to young to stay on me own.

£450 - £600 is fuckin good mate, what sort of hours are you putting in for that thou?

Defo gotta do 2391, i'm getting arsed off working for gobshites really who love ya when the works there coz your increasing their bonuses while it's on but the minute it all stops, they drop ya like a bad smell!

hinesy, know what ya mean ha ha 

[Fat Tony]

Generally do around 45 - 55 hours a week, but I get day release for college so it's not too bad.

Get yerself back up here mate theres pure wedge to be earned!

[albertared]

i think the answer to the question lies in your own mentality.

if you like dealing with paperwork, negotiating contracts, can handle rejection, are good at networking to get "in" with the big companies where the work is, (i.e. can you SELL yourself?), are you self-disciplined enough to work dilligently for the CUSTOMER's benefit, do you KNOW how to price a job, can you see yourself as an employer (major headache potential), etc. etc. etc..

if you have that mentality then set up a PROPER business and go for it.

if not, stick to working for others.

[AndyInVA]

going self employed still means you are working for other people

when clients take you on they sure as hell expect you to be there

I have been self employed for three years as a general contractor and you still very much have bosses

its just a different relationship

the paper work is a friggin nightmare and its hard to stay small

your overhead is technically higher by % than a larger firm as you dont have the revenue to spread it over

the issue of holidays is relevant

I didnt take a holiday for two years and I still cant take more than one week at a time

i can also only plan my holidays for the middle of large projects

if we dont have work I need to work my arse off to get more work

if i dont get the work there wont be much of a company when I get back from vacation

the money issue is also real

you can win big

and lose big

you can buy all your equipment, insurance and your materials for a project

if you dont get paid, you can be fucked pretty quick

the only way I can see you can be a success on your own is to work twice as hard as you ever did for someone else and take half as many holidays, at least for the first five years

last year my revenue was $3M so I am talking from some experience

[K1RKY]

Who do you contact to let them know and to get started on being self employed?

[K1RKY]

As predicted Im now officially unemployed!

Tried to leave on good terms but couldn't listen to the shit they come out with to try and justify theyre reasons, think it's fair to say i've defo burnt my bridges with them!

So, self employed it is, anyone know the first steps I need to take coz I've never had to do this before and dont know who Ive gotta speak to?

[Shazz]

 This should help  http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/startingup/

[AndyInVA]

sorry mate

thats a tough one

sounds like the web site should be good start for you

i wish you the best

best advice I can give you is to try to work as hard as you can all teh time and learn the most as quickly as possible

that way you build value in yourself

Andy

[K1RKY]

This should help  http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/startingup/

 

Just spoke to them. Ta

[Shazz]

Just spoke to them. Ta

Good luck!

[K1RKY]

Good luck!

Thank you and everyone who has given me advice!

Anyone want any work doing ha 

[Emlyn18]

Go self employed mate. I done it when i was about 18/19. Bit of a risk but better money and don't have to answer to any fucker. No way i would be able to do all the euro aways and other bits of time off i have if i was employed.

[Party Phil]

However, they do have good and bad periods. One of them for example, was turning work away just prior to xmas but for the last two months has had barely any work at all (its just starting to pick up again).

To be fair he should be prepared for this kind of thing as a freelance santa impersonator

[K1RKY]

Does anyone know how you become a ltd company and what is involved?

[Slugworth]

Does anyone know how you become a ltd company and what is involved?

You need to register with companies house mate and you have to return accounts every 12 months.

http://www.companieshouse.org.uk/
 
Loads of info on there

[K1RKY]

You need to register with companies house mate and you have to return accounts every 12 months.

http://www.companieshouse.org.uk/
 
Loads of info on there

Do you have to have been working self employed for a certain amount of time or can you just become ltd before you start?

[Slugworth]

Do you have to have been working self employed for a certain time or can you just become ltd before you start?

Anytime you want, however when you go Ltd you are effectively no longer self employed because a Ltd company is a legal entity, and you are employed by the companyeven if you are the sole shareholder.

[K1RKY]

The next thing to decide is how you will allocate shares in your new company. You will need to specify how many shares your company has and the value of them. Typically, companies are formed with 100 or 1000 shares with a value of £1 per share.

Some or all of these shares are then issued to the shareholders in return for the appropriate sum of money. Ownership of shares gives the shareholders the right to vote at company meetings and entitles them to be paid dividends on their shares based on the profits of the company.

So how does this work, if, say for example I want to be the chairman/secretary/director of the company and I want a family member to become a director?

 

[gamble]

mate, speak to an accountant (more than one is best). hopefully the first meeting will be free so just see a few and explain your situation and they might be able to give you advice about which route to take

[El Phes]

...or possibly seek an Umbrella Company and ask them their advice until you know the ropes and can go Ltd Company by yourself. I know a couple of companies if you need me...

[K1RKY]

mate, speak to an accountant (more than one is best). hopefully the first meeting will be free so just see a few and explain your situation and they might be able to give you advice about which route to take

 

Does anyone on here own a ltd company?

[K1RKY]

Does anyone on here own a ltd company?

Anyone?

[AndyInVA]

My company is an LLC

it creates a seperate legal identity and I am an employee of the company

has tax benefits but does generate more paperwork

if you are going to be a solo company with no other employees you are best off staying as

K1rky trading as Fucking Brilliant Electrician

and get yourself some liability insurance

this keeps the paperwork down for the first year

better to walk before you run

[Hinesy]

yeah I'm a ltd company. I pay myself an employees wage and take dividends out as a director of the company.

[K1RKY]

My company is an LLC

it creates a seperate legal identity and I am an employee of the company

has tax benefits but does generate more paperwork

if you are going to be a solo company with no other employees you are best off staying as

K1rky trading as Fucking Brilliant Electrician

and get yourself some liability insurance

this keeps the paperwork down for the first year

better to walk before you run

Andy i've been looking into it alot recently and what i'm gonna do is have me as the chairman/director and my wife as a director

but the thing that im not to sure about is the shares, how do they work?