Topic: Wrestling Thread (AEW, NJPW, WWE, etc) (*)

[Barefoot Doctor]

“Fuck your story”.

[stevieG786]

1 minute in and he's already said "pro wrestling" 5 times. The company is in safe hands with Rocky on the board. He even finishes with announcing dates and places of where he'll be appearing. Old school mentality.

You can tell he's been doing loads of cardio, and getting into in-ring shape, nowhere near as bulky as he had been.

Right? He looks much better

[Wild Romany Boy]

1 minute in and he's already said "pro wrestling" 5 times. The company is in safe hands with Rocky on the board. He even finishes with announcing dates and places of where he'll be appearing. Old school mentality.

You can tell he's been doing loads of cardio, and getting into in-ring shape, nowhere near as bulky as he had been.

Realistically, how much can his cardio improve? 10 years ago Cena had to walk him through a match, can he be up to par for Mania 41?

Cos he is looking a lot better.

[Barefoot Doctor]

Realistically, how much can his cardio improve? 10 years ago Cena had to walk him through a match, can he be up to par for Mania 41?

Cos he is looking a lot better.

If they do Rock/Roman against Seth/Cody then I think he’ll be ok there. Rollins and Rhodes can bump like mad for him and he won’t need to do a ton of work. Depends what else he does in this run… I wouldn’t look forward to the inevitable match with Reigns, who probably can’t carry him.

[stevieG786]

The rock and Reigns vs Seth and Cody night 1 more or less confirmed

God I love Heel Rock. That segment was amazing. 40 minutes flew by!! Love the 1999 Versace shirts too.

I really hope they don’t have him turn face by turning on reigns at Mania. Fuck that shit.

[damomad]

The rock and Reigns vs Seth and Cody night 1 more or less confirmed

God I love Heel Rock. That segment was amazing. 40 minutes flew by!! Love the 1999 Versace shirts too.

I really hope they don’t have him turn face by turning on reigns at Mania. Fuck that shit.

Notice that the building was packed to the rafters and the crowd was older, The Rock showing he is still the biggest draw in wrestling. His promo's are back to being top tier, not the cringe "fruity pebbles" material of the Cena feud.

The moment at the end was important because Reigns was looking like a complete afterthought up until then. The Rock can get himself over but it remains to be seen who will be left stronger when he leaves.

AEW Revolution tomorrow and has the strongest card I can remember in a while. Stings last match and hopefully the last time we see Flair near a ring would be a bonus.

[Barefoot Doctor]

Tag match has been the obvious move since the pivot but think it’s a great move. And with the stipulation, fairly clear Rock/Roman win which is the right move. Stack the deck against Cody on Night 2 and then you can have all sort of shenanigans. Fairly sure they’re almost going an Avengers Endgame route, it’ll be Roman leading the Bloodline (and they’ll pull in some help from extra family members) and Cody doing the same by getting the help of Seth, Jey, Sami, KO etc.

[I've been a good boy]

The build is too slow. The press conference moment where Cody got slapped was 3 weeks ago yet they still haven't had another encounter since then.

His promos are brilliant at the moment, he is the GOAT, way above the likes of Hogan, Flair and Taker.

[Wild Romany Boy]

The build is too slow. The press conference moment where Cody got slapped was 3 weeks ago yet they still haven't had another encounter since then.

His promos are brilliant at the moment, he is the GOAT, way above the likes of Hogan, Flair and Taker.

Greatest of all time overall or on the mic? Cos the latter he is very much a contender, but the former might be a stretch.

[Barefoot Doctor]

The build is too slow. The press conference moment where Cody got slapped was 3 weeks ago yet they still haven't had another encounter since then.

His promos are brilliant at the moment, he is the GOAT, way above the likes of Hogan, Flair and Taker.

There’s still five weeks till Mania so think the slow build works. Will probably kick into high gear from here, Rock is on the next few Smackdowns and Cody will be on next week.

[damomad]

Greatest of all time overall or on the mic? Cos the latter he is very much a contender, but the former might be a stretch.

It depends what the metrics are for GOAT.

I would argue he's the biggest star in wrestling ever. Hogan may be the most iconic, Flair the best all rounder, Undertaker the best character but The Rock is the best known wrestling personality worldwide. In a list of Top 100 Stars in Leading Roles at the Domestic Box Office, Rocky is 14th, 1 behind Johnny Depp and 2 ahead of Will Smith. No one has crossed over into the mainstream as successfully as the Rock.

Is he the greatest ever in the ring technically? He's not in my top 20. However, in terms of character, look, ability to build to a big match, promos, audience reaction and participation, then being able to deliver in main event matches in PPV as he did in the Attitude era, he's definitely in the conversation of the best ever. The last year of WWE has shown that most people don't buy tickets for wrestling in this day and age. They buy it for characters, build to matches and then payoffs.

A good example of what I personally think wrestling should be about is Hogan/Rock at WM18. Technically it's absolutely bang average but it's still a 5 star match because of everything before, between and after the actual moves.

[The G in Gerrard]

Eurgh. How can Rhodes be mentioned in a match against either the Rock or Reigns. Dreadful.

[Wild Romany Boy]

It depends what the metrics are for GOAT.

I would argue he's the biggest star in wrestling ever. Hogan may be the most iconic, Flair the best all rounder, Undertaker the best character but The Rock is the best known wrestling personality worldwide. In a list of Top 100 Stars in Leading Roles at the Domestic Box Office, Rocky is 14th, 1 behind Johnny Depp and 2 ahead of Will Smith. No one has crossed over into the mainstream as successfully as the Rock.

Is he the greatest ever in the ring technically? He's not in my top 20. However, in terms of character, look, ability to build to a big match, promos, audience reaction and participation, then being able to deliver in main event matches in PPV as he did in the Attitude era, he's definitely in the conversation of the best ever. The last year of WWE has shown that most people don't buy tickets for wrestling in this day and age. They buy it for characters, build to matches and then payoffs.

A good example of what I personally think wrestling should be about is Hogan/Rock at WM18. Technically it's absolutely bang average but it's still a 5 star match because of everything before, between and after the actual moves.

Agree he is the biggest star who was a prominent wrestler. I think, for all the things you said, he is up there. Although I think Rock has a lot of qualities sorely missing from most these days in ring (he is great working on the fly and knows when to hit his moves) I would struggle to put him in the top 50 that I have seen and I think that's too big of a hurdle to make him the greatest.

I think Bret considered look, promo and in ring out of 10 when he weighed this up. Rock is a hard 10 on two of those, but he is a good 7, maybe an 8, in ring in my view.

His match vs Hogan is all the better because they worked it almost on the fly. In an age where everyone just wants to get their stuff in, it does hold value.

[Vegeta]

The Rock in his prime was an incredible in ring worker because he knew how to tell a story in his matches, i'd rather watch a Rock match from back in the day than some heatless so called seven star banger from two geeks

Just like I would rather watch a 2 hour Rock/bloodline segment than watch a show that has random heatless banger matches with no story lol

[tubby]

The Rock in his prime was an incredible in ring worker because he knew how to tell a story in his matches, i'd rather watch a Rock match from back in the day than some heatless so called seven star banger from two geeks

Just like I would rather watch a 2 hour Rock/bloodline segment than watch a show that has random heatless banger matches with no story lol

You 100% have this framed on your wall.

[damomad]

Agree he is the biggest star who was a prominent wrestler. I think, for all the things you said, he is up there. Although I think Rock has a lot of qualities sorely missing from most these days in ring (he is great working on the fly and knows when to hit his moves) I would struggle to put him in the top 50 that I have seen and I think that's too big of a hurdle to make him the greatest.

I think Bret considered look, promo and in ring out of 10 when he weighed this up. Rock is a hard 10 on two of those, but he is a good 7, maybe an 8, in ring in my view.

His match vs Hogan is all the better because they worked it almost on the fly. In an age where everyone just wants to get their stuff in, it does hold value.

That's all pretty reasonable, and agree Hogan/Rock they listened from the off and it felt like a real dialogue between wrestler and crowd.

Also worth mentioning, the Rock only started professional wrestling in 96. Within 3 years he was at the absolute top. His run to the top was short and he didn't hang about long after. Bret Hart had around 23 active years as a wrestler, compared to maybe 5-6 for the Rock is his prime? I think it's fair not to include the part time stints. Given that, has anyone got as big, as good, as fast? I'm sure the Rock could have worked his way to a 9 in the ring but his goals were elsewhere. All hypothetical of course.

[Wild Romany Boy]

That's all pretty reasonable, and agree Hogan/Rock they listened from the off and it felt like a real dialogue between wrestler and crowd.

Also worth mentioning, the Rock only started professional wrestling in 96. Within 3 years he was at the absolute top. His run to the top was short and he didn't hang about long after. Bret Hart had around 23 active years as a wrestler, compared to maybe 5-6 for the Rock is his prime? I think it's fair not to include the part time stints. Given that, has anyone got as big, as good, as fast? I'm sure the Rock could have worked his way to a 9 in the ring but his goals were elsewhere. All hypothetical of course.

As big quickly? Maybe Brock, but people saw Rock and saw star. His look was so good that guys like HBK and Triple H were insanely jealous. It was going to take pure incompetence not to make it work, it almost happened, and he had a lot of support. Plus, he was a hard worker who became the top heel, and top gace for a while, in the boom period of wrestling.

As good? Many. But Kurt Angle is probably the main one I think. Guy was almost Flair level within 2 years.

Rock might have gotten higher over the years, but even he has limitations and I don't see it. He made the absolute most of the talents he had but his ambitions were higher. I think absence very much has made the heart grow fonder.

[John_P]

Yeah he never really had to evolve the character during his time in the main event, if he'd never gone to Hollywood full time it would've been interesting to see what he'd have done during the Ruthless Aggression era.

[Tonyh8su]

   

You 100% have this framed on your wall.

Hahahaha what the hell is this??

[I've been a good boy]

Greatest of all time overall or on the mic? Cos the latter he is very much a contender, but the former might be a stretch.

Of all time. I know people will have Austin or Taker as their GOAT's, and the kids of today will see Cena as their GOAT but for me, Rock had it all. Not the greatest in-ring but he could tell a captivating story and like mentioned above, I'd rather pay to see a story-teller and entertainer like Rock and Austin than a ring general like Bryan who has little charisma.

That being said, what's everyone's Mount Rushmore? Mine is: The Rock, Stone Cold, Undertaker and Hulk Hogan.

[Stockholm Syndrome]

   
Hahahaha what the hell is this??

If I remember right I think it was during one of Linda's senate campaigns, to use fans to fight against any bad press about the company being flung at Linda's campaign

[CornerFlag]

That being said, what's everyone's Mount Rushmore? Mine is: The Rock, Stone Cold, Undertaker and Hulk Hogan.

Honestly, probably the same.  It's the product I've grown up on so it'll be biased towards them but you can have arguments for Flair, Andre, HBK, Hart, Kobashi, Kawada, Thesz, Savage, Steamboat, Cena, Rhodes, Bruno, Angle, Misawa, Inoki, Baba, Rikidozan, HHH, absolutely countless others...

[ScouserAtHeart]

Rock, Stone Cold, Hogan, HBK

[Wild Romany Boy]

Of all time. I know people will have Austin or Taker as their GOAT's, and the kids of today will see Cena as their GOAT but for me, Rock had it all. Not the greatest in-ring but he could tell a captivating story and like mentioned above, I'd rather pay to see a story-teller and entertainer like Rock and Austin than a ring general like Bryan who has little charisma.

That being said, what's everyone's Mount Rushmore? Mine is: The Rock, Stone Cold, Undertaker and Hulk Hogan.

Yeah, I get you. I know it is all personal preference but, for me, Austin exists in the same timeframe as The Rock and shepherds in the era that leads to the boom. He is also, even broken down, a genuine ring general. If you want to add popularity in to that mix for GOAT, I think it's him.

Rushmore is always a little bit about when you watched I guess. So, for me, I would throw HBK (my favourite) and Bret there and add Austin and Hogan as the industry game changers.

For wrestling megastars, Rock is definitely up there.

I do think Bryan Danielson is extremely charismatic though, even in his "normal gimmick". I think he might be my GOAT.

[Sheer Magnetism]

Rock can deliver a line really well but for me, you can't be a contender for that if you don't come up with your own material. And Gurewitz wrote a huge amount of his iconic stuff. Also hard to forget him coming out second best against both Cena and Punk.

Having said that, Rock is one of the few who was exceptional on the mic as a face and heel. Jericho and Punk are probably the only other two who could do either just as well. Austin and Hogan were magnificent as faces, Flair as heel, but they never really had the same impact on the other side. Hard to tell with Cena as he spent most of his career on white meat autopilot.

Bret, Shawn and Angle probably top three in the ring, but for range and ability Jericho is way up there for me too.

[Riquende]

MRW people start including The Rock in conversations around the greatest wrestler of all time because of his crossover Hollywood appeal:

[Stockholm Syndrome]

Turns out Virgil was actually born in 1951, not 1962

He worked everyone into believing he was 11 years younger than he actually was

https://twitter.com/SeanRossSapp/status/1764164241840386154?t=L1R0nSQ2jlacSNWMQYiDfw&s=19

[TipTopKop]

RIP Virgil.... whenever he was born.

[OsirisMVZ]

Almost had a RIP Darby Allin

https://twitter.com/AEW/status/1764512682424569943?t=97agm1KX72pKjV0pIGlbrg&s=19

[gazzalfc]

Was it real glass?

[Stockholm Syndrome]

Last night was honestly the best AEW show ever in my opinion

[Vegeta]

AEW are great when it comes to putting on a PPV I'll give that when it comes to PPV's they are the best wrestling company around but their weekly shows don't hit the same because on weekley shows I don't wanna long matches I prefer their to be more segments than matches.

[Wild Romany Boy]

Last night was honestly the best AEW show ever in my opinion

to be honest, I thought it was fairly average in ring wise and even the tag team matches (FTR/BCC and the Jay White crew) fell short of what they could be. Thought Ospreay vs Takeshita could have hit another level (but they are both so good) and Danielson Kingston needed to go up another level too.

The Bucks vs Sting and Darby was what it needed to be and the World title match was, again, maybe a notch below what it could be. Hangman and Swerve have unreal chemistry and, as good as Joe is, I kind of wanted him out the way. Swerve's time is coming though.

So, I don't think there are any real MOTY contenders but it had a better flow across the show than any PPV they have done for quite a while (probably since Danielson and Cole debuted). There was a nice variety of matches this time out and it seems agents are working harder at not repeating sequences in multiple matches too, which became a real problem when every match seemingly did the forearm exchange when only Bryan Danielson made it look remotely realistic.

I'd say it was a show where they are beginning to address the real problems in the company, cluster around a few notable individuals, and that's good to see. I wouldn't say it was anywhere near an all timer though, but good things seem to be on the way.

[Barefoot Doctor]

The visual of the three versions of Sting on the entrance ramp was awesome.

Is he still going to be involved on-camera in AEW or is he properly done?

[RedDeadRejection]

Ospreay vs Takeshita was really good. Popped for the styles clash

[tubby]

Eddie vs Bryan, the tag match, Ospreay vs Takeshita and the main were all excellent.

The title match was good but not quite there, but that 8 man was the drizzling shits, one of the worst AEW PPV matches I've ever seen.  Hook was really bad, and the whole thing was a mess.

[John_P]

One of those ppvs that was very good throughout with results that made complete sense going forward, topped off with a fantastic send off for Sting.

[Riquende]

It might be my 5 year general apathy towards Moxley, it might be that I really can't stand Claudio, but what the hell were the two of them doing going over FTR?

Balancing your tag and singles divisions is a tricky business, the very nature of booking throws up oddities where singles wrestlers have to team up for a match or even a while, and they'll run into estalished teams. Maybe I'm too old school, remembering how tag teams of the late 80s/early 90s would generally:

a) Have a team name they were primarily known by (and people may not even know which is which, hence 'FTR Bald' for Dax)
b) Wear matching or at least complementary gear
c) Have a tag team finisher to end matches

I'm always leery of singles wrestlers going over established teams, unless those singles wrestlers are a clear level above the equivalent team. For example, Moxley/Claudio shouldn't ever lose to say, Private Party. But FTR? 6 months ago these guys won the "Greatest Tag Team of the Generation' blowout with the Bucks. Sure, they should probably lose to two singles wrestlers who are at world title level, but what really annoyed me was Schiavone waxing lyrical afterwards talking about how big a win this was for AEW's tag division overall, like we hadn't just seen the 'best' established team in the company fail to beat 'Moxlio' in 3 attempts (including Dax/Moxley solo). I don't want to call them a 'thrown together team' as they're stablemates, but it reeks to high heaven of keeping them out of singles matches for a while for the sake of it.

It's galling because the upcoming tournament for the tag belts is 100% going to feature Moxley/Claudio who are probably going at least to the final. There are a plethora of worthy teams in the company but let's throw some singles wrestlers together and have them as a feature instead.

Anyway apart from that a fine show, hard to rate as the Sting finalé was so prominent and really well done overall. Purazzo is going to go the way of most incoming featured womens challengers and disappear off TV for a month now her match is done, especially with Wednesdays's big debut.

[Wild Romany Boy]

It might be my 5 year general apathy towards Moxley, it might be that I really can't stand Claudio, but what the hell were the two of them doing going over FTR?

Balancing your tag and singles divisions is a tricky business, the very nature of booking throws up oddities where singles wrestlers have to team up for a match or even a while, and they'll run into estalished teams. Maybe I'm too old school, remembering how tag teams of the late 80s/early 90s would generally:

a) Have a team name they were primarily known by (and people may not even know which is which, hence 'FTR Bald' for Dax)
b) Wear matching or at least complimentary gear
c) Have a tag team finisher to end matches

I'm always leery of singles wrestlers going over established teams, unless those singles wrestlers are a clear level above the equivalent team. For example, Moxley/Claudio shouldn't ever lose to say, Private Party. But FTR? 6 months ago these guys won the "Greatest Tag Team of the Generation' blowout with the Bucks. Sure, they should probably lose to two singles wrestlers who are at world title level, but what really annoyed me was Schiavone waxing lyrical afterwards talking about how big a win this was for AEW's tag division overall, like we hadn't just seen the 'best' established team in the company fail to beat 'Moxlio' in 3 attempts (including Dax/Moxley solo). I don't want to call them a 'thrown together team' as they're stablemates, but it reeks to high heaven of keeping them out of singles matches for a while for the sake of it.

It's galling because the upcoming tournament for the tag belts is 100% going to feature Moxley/Claudio who are probably going at least to the final. There are a plethora of worthy teams in the company but let's throw some singles wrestlers together and have them as a feature instead.

Anyway apart from that a fine show, hard to rate as the Sting finalé was so prominent and really well done overall. Purazzo is going to go the way of most incoming featured womens challengers and disappear off TV for a month now her match is done, especially with Wednesdays's big debut.

Must admit, I agree. There might be something else going on with FTR, might, but Moxley and Claudio need a rest.

Think Claudio should have taken time away after leaving WWE and reset his character a bit. He's essentially in the same place in AEW.

But, if he's enjoying himself I suppose.

[Stockholm Syndrome]

It might be my 5 year general apathy towards Moxley, it might be that I really can't stand Claudio, but what the hell were the two of them doing going over FTR?

Balancing your tag and singles divisions is a tricky business, the very nature of booking throws up oddities where singles wrestlers have to team up for a match or even a while, and they'll run into estalished teams. Maybe I'm too old school, remembering how tag teams of the late 80s/early 90s would generally:

a) Have a team name they were primarily known by (and people may not even know which is which, hence 'FTR Bald' for Dax)
b) Wear matching or at least complementary gear
c) Have a tag team finisher to end matches

I'm always leery of singles wrestlers going over established teams, unless those singles wrestlers are a clear level above the equivalent team. For example, Moxley/Claudio shouldn't ever lose to say, Private Party. But FTR? 6 months ago these guys won the "Greatest Tag Team of the Generation' blowout with the Bucks. Sure, they should probably lose to two singles wrestlers who are at world title level, but what really annoyed me was Schiavone waxing lyrical afterwards talking about how big a win this was for AEW's tag division overall, like we hadn't just seen the 'best' established team in the company fail to beat 'Moxlio' in 3 attempts (including Dax/Moxley solo). I don't want to call them a 'thrown together team' as they're stablemates, but it reeks to high heaven of keeping them out of singles matches for a while for the sake of it.

It's galling because the upcoming tournament for the tag belts is 100% going to feature Moxley/Claudio who are probably going at least to the final. There are a plethora of worthy teams in the company but let's throw some singles wrestlers together and have them as a feature instead.

Anyway apart from that a fine show, hard to rate as the Sting finalé was so prominent and really well done overall. Purazzo is going to go the way of most incoming featured womens challengers and disappear off TV for a month now her match is done, especially with Wednesdays's big debut.

I think the big reason why they went over is Cash Wheeler may be going to prison (or at the very least may be unable to get a visa and this tour internationally to shows like All In or the upcoming Canada tour), on a gun charge. It is going to court soon, so they need to de-emphasize them, but they are still a top team so they can put people over.

I would also say it makes sense that Moxley and Claudio work as a team - in story they are stable mates, train together, have tagged together (mostly in 6 mans but still). I would say there is no reason for them to not work as a team