Topic: Refreshing the forward line

[Black Bull Nova]

Refreshing our forward line


Every now and again their is a pivitol moment in this club's history, the time when we either rapidly or slowly refresh our attacking line


This time it is the full realisation that one of our most loved combinations, Mane-Firmino-Salah could look like Diaz-Nunez-Jota shortly


Just remember we've done this before


Hunt-St.John-Thompson slowly morphed (through trying Hateley, Evans, Whitham, Graham and Boersma) into Heighway-Toshack-Keegan (not forgetting Peter Cormack though)


In turn, through Johnson and Fairclough that morphed into Dalglish-Rush


In turn again though Hodgson, Robinson and Walsh that turned into Beardsley-Aldridge-Barnes


Then again, though Rosenthal, Saunders, Walters, Clough to Fowler-Collymore-McManaman


Then again, through Reidle, Dundee, Camara, Meijer to Owen-Heskey


Again, through Baros, Diouf, Nunez, Cisse, Crouch to Torres-Kuyt-Babel


Then again, though Keane, Ngog, Pennant, Carroll, Bellamy,  to Suarez-Sturridge-Sterling and then to Klopp


Sometimes it takes time and those who are bought to fill the shoes are discarded quickly, like Veronin, Aspas etc


This time I think we've done really well so, excepting the Jury is still out on Nunez in the PL, but looking good (and we've still got Salah)


Good Luck Divock, good luck Sadio, good luck Takumi

[stevieG786]

Salah Nunez Diaz

i'm super excited for that front line, with Jota and Bobby to come on against tired defences..

mouth watering!

[jepovic]

Suarez and Sturridge to Ricky Lambert and Mario Balotelli.

We don't talk about that

[rob1966]

Suarez and Sturridge to Ricky Lambert and Mario Balotelli.

Who pissed on your chips this morning?

We've been blessed with great forwards down the decades and I'm looking forward to seeing how things go with the new ones, lots to get excited about

[Fromola]

Who pissed on your chips this morning?

We've been blessed with great forwards down the decades and I'm looking forward to seeing how things go with the new ones, lots to get excited about

Just a light hearted joke.

Agree, the front three looks to have been planned well for succession. Nunez, Diaz and Jota refreshing things. The prospect of Salah, Mane and Firmino getting old at the same time we couldn't afford. Just hope Mo signs.

[El Lobo]

Who pissed on your chips this morning?

We've been blessed with great forwards down the decades and I'm looking forward to seeing how things go with the new ones, lots to get excited about

The same person as every morning at a guess. It’s a six figure income.

We’ve always actually done pretty well with replacing strikers, even when we were a bit shit

[Clint Eastwood]

Let's not forget how good Jota has been since coming in. I think the final few months of last season has been his only lull in form since arriving. He was really poor during that period but I'm sure he'll be back to his best after a summer off. There's also been a misconception that he's just a poacher and that his build up play isn't good. He's shown during his time here, particularly his first season, that he's much more than that. Anyway, I don't think it's a certainty that Nunez is immediately first choice.

Call me pessimistic, but I don't think I'll ever see a Liverpool attack as complete, talented, balanced as Salah, Firmino and Mane were during those three years. What a joy they have been.

[McSquared]

Let's not forget how good Jota has been since coming in. I think the final few months of last season has been his only lull in form since arriving. He was really poor during that period but I'm sure he'll be back to his best after a summer off. There's also been a misconception that he's just a poacher and that his build up play isn't good. He's shown during his time here, particularly his first season, that he's much more than that. Anyway, I don't think it's a certainty that Nunez is immediately first choice.

Call me pessimistic, but I don't think I'll ever see a Liverpool attack as complete, talented, balanced as Salah, Firmino and Mane were during those three years. What a joy they have been.

Yeah, people overlooking jota is weird.

[Ghost Town]

Just a light hearted joke.

Ha! We can be lighthearted now, but by God it was grim. Add Benteke to that and I thought I was watching a different sport.

I think the real take away from all this is just how quickly a grim forward line can become a boss one. Never any need to panic, just a couple of astute changes can make all the difference.

And also how we seem to pull it out the hat again and again. Some fantastic players in attack over the years, and everytime we think 'Oh we won't see another as good as X', we suddenly find another who is just as good, or better.

[ToneLa]

I wish all the contract anxiety folks in the Salah thread would think about this new lineup. Mo hasn't been here forever. Things change, tis the way of life... we had Rush and Barnes once, Fowler. All things must pass

Being a bit of a fan of Portuguese footy I am made up we got Diaz. and now Nunez - yesss. Reckon they'll be a bit under the radar (we've seen a bit of this for Diaz already - he runs rings around CBs!) and so will make a great impact.

As long as Nunez gets the service I think he's gonna be our top goalscorer - and that's saying something

[lgvkarlos]

I wish all the contract anxiety folks in the Salah thread would think about this new lineup. Mo hasn't been here forever. Things change, tis the way of life... we had Rush and Barnes once, Fowler. All things must pass

Being a bit of a fan of Portuguese footy I am made up we got Diaz. and now Nunez - yesss. Reckon they'll be a bit under the radar (we've seen a bit of this for Diaz already - he runs rings around CBs!) and so will make a great impact.

As long as Nunez gets the service I think he's gonna be our top goalscorer - and that's saying something

Agree with all of that, Klopp turned good players into world beaters and he will do the same again.

[Ghost Town]

Looking forward to the Nevster snivelling about our having 'found another one' as Darwin scores his 20th goal before Christmas.... while still being behind Salah's 25 at that point (with Diaz, Jota and Bobby in double figures as well).

[SvenJohansen]

Refreshing the front line is something we've done down the years, it has to be done. And we've done pretty damn good at it. I'm looking forward to seeing the newest edition. Salah, Jota, Diaz, Nunez and not forgetting Bobby . I can't wait to see Diaz with a full pre-season behind him. Can't wait to see Nunez in a red shirt. Can't wait to see a re-invigorated Jota. Looking forward to seeing Salah for perhaps his last season as a red. Hoping to see Bobby up front and scoring when he plays. Hopefully I'll see Gordon up front too. And I'm looking forward to seeing a new formation and supporting this great club for another season of entertaining football. Goals galore!!

[Robotforaday]

In all honesty, it's amazing how much success we've had with the same forward line for several years. Teams can and do sus out how your forward line plays... it's a testament to the creativity and brilliance of Mane-Firmino-Salah that they've still managed to mix it up and stay dominant. However, I was thinking around the time we won the league that we would make the change then. And Jota was the start of that... Diaz has been a revelation... and now Darwin (cue a million evolution jokes...)

On the one hand I don't expect immediate results, this is a rebuild now. On the other hand... I think we're going to keep the opposition guessing and there are going to be some very high scorelines!

[JohnSullie]

You Had  me at Bearsdley, Barnes Rush. I'm listening  😀

[Ghost Town]

In all honesty, it's amazing how much success we've had with the same forward line for several years. Teams can and do sus out how your forward line plays...

This is very much a fan view. Klopp has always said the opposite. He believes, and there's evidence to show, that teams of good players who stay together for a long time get better and better. The idea that they get 'sussed out' and lose their edge doesn't really happen (we're talking about line-ups of good players here, not grocks and journeymen).

Of course most line-ups of good quality players don't tend to stay together long. Players want to move on, fans agitate if success isn't immediate, coaches panic buy and so on. But Real Madrid are a good recent example. Half their players are middle aged and yet they're still winning European Cups. It's one thing for oppositions to 'suss out' the way established line-ups play; quite another to do anything about it.

As fans we love transfers and getting new players in, constantly; and we worry too much about things like 'being sussed out', ascribing to this all those reversals and shortfalls that are usually just variance in action. Coaches, on the other hand, would prefer to assemble their ideal XI (plus subs) and then keep them for as long as possible, growing together, learning together and getting better and better, defying aging via experience and increased familiarity with each other.

Currently we're refreshing our forward line; but not because the players are past it or unable to cut it anymore. We're doing it because players want to move on (sometimes for financial reasons) and we've probably known that for a while or, at least, have had to plan for the likelihood.

[afc tukrish]

This is very much a fan view. Klopp has always said the opposite. He believes, and there's evidence to show, that teams of good players who stay together for a long time get better and better. The idea that they get 'sussed out' and lose their edge doesn't really happen (we're talking about line-ups of good players here, not grocks and journeymen).

So other teams can easily grock the grocks?

Planet grock?

[Ghost Town]

So other teams can easily grock the grocks?

Planet grock?

I grok what you did there, Heinlein.

[Robotforaday]

This is very much a fan view. Klopp has always said the opposite. He believes, and there's evidence to show, that teams of good players who stay together for a long time get better and better. The idea that they get 'sussed out' and lose their edge doesn't really happen (we're talking about line-ups of good players here, not grocks and journeymen).

You've caught me, I'm a fan and not part of the coaching team Sad but true.

[Ghost Town]

You've caught me, I'm a fan and not part of the coaching team Sad but true.

Ha ha, I'm the same. Can't wait to get new players, a tendency to start wandering in my thoughts and wishing to see different ways of playing as opposed to the established set up, coveting my neighbour's ass-ists from that sharp young midfielder they've got etc (note: not Everton!).

I think it is illustrative for we fans, though, to consider that our preoccupations which tend to be forged in discussion with other fans and can grow into mountainous molehills, are sometimes not shared by the professionals. We have our own lingo and they, theirs, so to speak.

[Robotforaday]

I think it is illustrative for we fans, though, to consider that our preoccupations which tend to be forged in discussion with other fans and can grow into mountainous molehills, are sometimes not shared by the professionals. We have our own lingo and they, theirs, so to speak.

You're quite right. The problem is, there are runs of games where we seem one dimensional, or three finals where we fail to score and it's then it's easy for the untrained eye to jump to conclusions then and the "solution" tends to be "mix things up a bit", which is just gambling rather than strategy.

At the same time, succession is important for the reasons you've stated as much as anything else, and it's good that we're getting that in place so well. And I think for all Klopp is right to think about keeping things together to find a rhythm, he obviously also values keeping the average age down for various reasons. That's why I'm hardly despairing at the news of losing one of our all-time greats... I'm just glad I got to see him as part of this time, and excited to see the next chapter.

[killer-heels]

Players come and go but my only worry about this change is whether this affects our results in the short term. As we saw last season, we have to be on 90 plus points form from pretty much the early part of the season. If the front line take a bit longer to hit their stride then we could be chasing City again.

[rob1966]

Players come and go but my only worry about this change is whether this affects our results in the short term. As we saw last season, we have to be on 90 plus points form from pretty much the early part of the season. If the front line take a bit longer to hit their stride then we could be chasing City again.

Hopefully getting Darwin in nice and early will help, he's got a few weeks to watch as many videos as we want him to before pre-season starts and he can do a lot of work with the coaches to help him settle quickly. We've still got Bobby, Jota and Mo and Diaz will have a full pre-season, its just a case of how quickly they all get on the same wavelength.

[Robotforaday]

Hopefully getting Darwin in nice and early will help, he's got a few weeks to watch as many videos as we want him to before pre-season starts and he can do a lot of work with the coaches to help him settle quickly. We've still got Bobby, Jota and Mo and Diaz will have a full pre-season, its just a case of how quickly they all get on the same wavelength.

Not to minimise how much of a loss Mane is - he's an immense player - but even so, imagining we'll start with Diaz-Bobby-Salah or Diaz-Jota-Salah (depending on opposition), that's some amazing continuity in the team and a monster of a front three, with Darwin potentially on as a sub to establish themselves and then picking up starts after the first few games. By the business end of the season we'll be back to rotating five top drawer attackers.

[rob1966]

Not to minimise how much of a loss Mane is - he's an immense player - but even so, imagining we'll start with Diaz-Bobby-Salah or Diaz-Jota-Salah (depending on opposition), that's some amazing continuity in the team and a monster of a front three, with Darwin potentially on as a sub to establish themselves and then picking up starts after the first few games. By the business end of the season we'll be back to rotating five top drawer attackers.

Spoilt bastards aren't we

[tubby]

Only issue for me is if Salah picks up an injury, who covers for him.  None of our other forwards are as effective on the right.

If we do switch to 4231 then I can see an argument for Elliott playing right wing, but then who would play as the 10?  You'd have Carvalho there as first choice and maybe Firmino (but he's never really excelled there for us, way better as a false 9).

[SvenJohansen]

Only issue for me is if Salah picks up an injury, who covers for him.  None of our other forwards are as effective on the right.

If we do switch to 4231 then I can see an argument for Elliott playing right wing, but then who would play as the 10?  You'd have Carvalho there as first choice and maybe Firmino (but he's never really excelled there for us, way better as a false 9).

Diaz played on the right in one or two of his earlier games I think? He swapped with Salah for a while in one game I recall, but don't know who it was against. It wasn't for a whole game but I seem to remember he looked capable there. If he plays on the right Jota goes left with Nunez in the middle? Salah rarely gets injured too.

[Peabee]

Looking forward to the Nevster snivelling about our having 'found another one' as Darwin scores his 20th goal before Christmas.... while still being behind Salah's 25 at that point (with Diaz, Jota and Bobby in double figures as well).

“He must have attracted the attention of Real Madrid by now, Martin. And as we know, it’s hard for South Americans to decline Real. Liverpool should enjoy him for now as I think he’ll be gone in the summer. Something isn’t quite right. I’m the only footballer in the last two decades not to donate my Testimonial money to charity, I bought a hotel and I pretend to be a socialist. In other words, I’m a rat, Martin.”

[NarutoReds]

Done, Salah is already in the middle. Issue, fecking low block defence, restricting the space for the opposition players to exploit...

Maybe Klopp is doing this much more in the training. Maybe.

[stonecold_jpm]

Not so much worried about the attackers (once the two return)  we will find someone capable of replacing Bobby in the summer we simply have to. Still could have done with someone to replace Origi as an extra option.

[BobPaisley3]

Cannonier will be 19 next season, if he keeps scoring at the rate he’s been scoring then he either gets a loan or comes into the main squad.

[CanuckYNWA]

Cannonier will be 19 next season, if he keeps scoring at the rate he’s been scoring then he either gets a loan or comes into the main squad.

....

How many times have we heard this story. Youngsters banging in goals in the youth leagues and then struggling once they make the step-up. Seen it oh so often

I just wouldnt get excited about youngsters making it, its very rare especially for elite teams. But every year people over hype youngsters, put outside pressure on them and they dont make it, whether it be the physical difference, the pace, the mental pressure, or complacency due to ego.

[BobPaisley3]

....

How many times have we heard this story. Youngsters banging in goals in the youth leagues and then struggling once they make the step-up. Seen it oh so often

I just wouldnt get excited about youngsters making it, its very rare especially for elite teams. But every year people over hype youngsters, put outside pressure on them and they dont make it, whether it be the physical difference, the pace, the mental pressure, or complacency due to ego.

Might as well disband the academy then. Granted it’s 25 years since Owen but that’s not to say we’ll never get another striker coming through. Maybe it’s not Cannonier but Bobby Clark who’s a year younger and already on the bench.

[redk84]

Gonna have a moment to stop and appreciate how bloody good Salah-Mane-Bobby were for us at some point. What a combo

Jota, Nunez, Diaz already looks exciting to me - I'm still quite annoyed Jota got injured against City....I thought he was terrific on the day especially the way he used the ball and was tracking back to defend, his best game in a very long time.

[CanuckYNWA]

Might as well disband the academy then. Granted it’s 25 years since Owen but that’s not to say we’ll never get another striker coming through. Maybe it’s not Cannonier but Bobby Clark who’s a year younger and already on the bench.

Where in my comment did I say give up on youngsters? Disband the academy?

I am simply saying to not get invested in a youngster until theyve made it, because more often than not youll be let down.

[Sharado]

....

How many times have we heard this story. Youngsters banging in goals in the youth leagues and then struggling once they make the step-up. Seen it oh so often

I just wouldnt get excited about youngsters making it, its very rare especially for elite teams. But every year people over hype youngsters, put outside pressure on them and they dont make it, whether it be the physical difference, the pace, the mental pressure, or complacency due to ego.

I often wonder about this, and apart from the absolute elite [so recent academy examples would be trent or elsewhere Foden] I wonder if it comes down to that hunger. If you're banging them in at 19 in the under 21s and telling all your mates your the bollocks, once you break into the team stuff starts not coming so easy and you fall into a bit of a spiral. Only the real elite manage to get over that, maybe.

[JRed]

Refreshing our forward line


Every now and again their is a pivitol moment in this club's history, the time when we either rapidly or slowly refresh our attacking line


This time it is the full realisation that one of our most loved combinations, Mane-Firmino-Salah could look like Diaz-Nunez-Jota shortly


Just remember we've done this before


Hunt-St.John-Thompson slowly morphed (through trying Hateley, Evans, Whitham, Graham and Boersma) into Heighway-Toshack-Keegan (not forgetting Peter Cormack though)


In turn, through Johnson and Fairclough that morphed into Dalglish-Rush


In turn again though Hodgson, Robinson and Walsh that turned into Beardsley-Aldridge-Barnes


Then again, though Rosenthal, Saunders, Walters, Clough to Fowler-Collymore-McManaman


Then again, through Reidle, Dundee, Camara, Meijer to Owen-Heskey


Again, through Baros, Diouf, Nunez, Cisse, Crouch to Torres-Kuyt-Babel


Then again, though Keane, Ngog, Pennant, Carroll, Bellamy,  to Suarez-Sturridge-Sterling and then to Klopp


Sometimes it takes time and those who are bought to fill the shoes are discarded quickly, like Veronin, Aspas etc


This time I think we've done really well so, excepting the Jury is still out on Nunez in the PL, but looking good (and we've still got Salah)


Good Luck Divock, good luck Sadio, good luck Takumi

Nice to see Eric Meijer get a mention!

We really have been spoiled with some of the forwards we’ve had. Some not so good but that’s football.

[BobPaisley3]

Where in my comment did I say give up on youngsters? Disband the academy?

I am simply saying to not get invested in a youngster until theyve made it, because more often than not youll be let down.

What is ‘made it’ though? A lot of them might not play much professional football with us but they’ll get careers at lesser clubs. It’s a double edged sword because we’ve been so successful recently, there’s been very little opportunity to integrate young players, however this transitional period might allow increased game time. I also think the academy is in a much better place now than it has been for probably 30 years. Hopefully more chance of a player getting regular first team minutes.

[LFCTikiTaka]

We desperately need another winger in a similar mould to Diaz. When he's out there's no-one who offers anything even remotely similar to what he does.