Topic: Brazilian Porn Review Topic (Warning: may contain Wijnaldum)

[Giono]

For me, today just showed how important it is for us to sign a genuine backup to this guy and Lallana, and now I understand the interest in Dahoud over a defensive midfielder. He would have really helped us to pass through the midfield.

Coutinho can replace Lallana if needed, but you are right...nobody for Wijnaldum. Grujic shows some promise as being a midfielder that can help circulate the ball. but maybe a bit too green for right now.

If Gini is our for our next match I'd like to see Henderson give it a try, now that Can is back to play deeper.

[gazzam1963]

Looks like gini could be our new ronnie whelan .... Getting a lot of " what does he actually do " and suddenly when he's not there you realise the importance of him .he certainly makes the ball flow quicker takes the pass and releases it . Hope hes fit for saturday ..was definitely dissapointing not to be able to field an unchanged side from before the international break

[Keith Lard]

This is predictable ... snore draw against Man United and now we'll all cry for him. This would have been a snore draw with or without Gini IMO.

[Dim Glas]

This is predictable ... snore draw against Man United and now we'll all cry for him. This would have been a snore draw with or without Gini IMO.

Hmmm, that's one of the odder comments on here tonight.

It was pretty clear how he was missed against a team playing the way United did.

[Clayton Bigsby]

This is predictable ... snore draw against Man United and now we'll all cry for him. This would have been a snore draw with or without Gini IMO.

We can never know for sure but for what its worth I agree with you 100%

[BarryCrocker]

For me, today just showed how important it is for us to sign a genuine backup to this guy and Lallana, and now I understand the interest in Dahoud over a defensive midfielder. He would have really helped us to pass through the midfield.

Stuff Dahoud lets go for Pascal Groß from FC Ingolstadt 04. So far this season he's covered more ground then any other player in the league, been involved in more scoring opportunities and is also a dead-ball specialist.

[Redman78]

This is predictable ... snore draw against Man United and now we'll all cry for him. This would have been a snore draw with or without Gini IMO.

It's predictable because guess what? We missed him out there yesterday and it was clear to see.

[Dench57]

We miss you Wini, come back

[LallanaInPyjamas]

It's predictable because guess what? We missed him out there yesterday and it was clear to see.

Only because Can stunk the place out for half an hour. Once he got a grip of what he was doing I don't think it was that noticeable.

Lallana was a far bigger miss because of his energy and ability in tight spaces.

[Redman78]

Only because Can stunk the place out for half an hour. Once he got a grip of what he was doing I don't think it was that noticeable.

Lallana was a far bigger miss because of his energy and ability in tight spaces.

Can is a totally different type of player to wijnaldum and even at his best doesn't give you what Wijnaldum offers, he is suited to a deeper role in my opinion.
Lallana was a big miss too, wouldn't say far bigger, but as this isn't the Lallana thread i'll leave it there.

[rakey_lfc]

I think we missed his energy in pressing alongside Hendo. You could see Can wasn't as sharp as the rest in his decision making. Too many times where he didn't get the ball forward quicker which is what I think Wijnaldum would have done better.

That said, our overall quality in the final third was poor and it may not have made a difference in the eventual outcome of the match anyways.

[didi]

This is predictable ... snore draw against Man United and now we'll all cry for him. This would have been a snore draw with or without Gini IMO.

nah him and Lallana were badly missed last night, no disrespect to Can but both these players can take a pass on the turn and move the ball far quicker which was essential last night

[newterp]

hopefully they return without any rust from their injury layoffs. Lallana seems ok.

[Anfield Kopite]

hopefully they return without any rust from their injury layoffs. Lallana seems ok.

If he is back for the weekend he shouldn't be rusty. Will only be about 10 days since he got injured playing for Holland.

[wemmick]

Thought we missed him yesterday. The slower speed at which we passed through the midfield was evident. His consistent one-touch passes and lay-offs improve our tempo dramatically. 

[Zee_26]

One thing that is evident when Wijnaldum and Lallana play is that they are always willing to break from midfield into the opposition penalty area. That chance Can had yesterday has been a consistent feature of Lallana's game this season (and Wijnaldum's to some extent albeit with assists but no goals). It may be due to rustiness on Can's side but he really needed to make those runs more often. But I felt he was often occupying a similar space to Henderson, which is I guess is his more natural position.

When we have six or even seven players in and around the opposition penalty area and are circulating the ball very quickly and inventively, the pressure we create as a consequence is often too much to handle for the opposition defense.

[Tony19:6]

Can is a totally different type of player to wijnaldum and even at his best doesn't give you what Wijnaldum offers, he is suited to a deeper role in my opinion.
Lallana was a big miss too, wouldn't say far bigger, but as this isn't the Lallana thread i'll leave it there.

And vice versa each have their qualities.

Gini will be more of a goal threat when he settles into the side.

Can is better aerially and when he's on form his long passing looks better.

Can was understandably rusty last night, but for me when both fit and firing, Can would have been my pick against the physicality of that UTD side.

Glad to have both.

[TepidT2O]

Players who don't play always get better..

[didi shamone]

Players who don't play always get better..

Lucas would have got a hat trick.

[Redman78]

Players who don't play always get better..

True, although I can't understand why some want to take issue with others saying we missed him last night, I don't think anyones gone over-board.  It's no slight on any other player, just an observation.  I mean he's been a starter under Klopp so surely he's bringing some good qualities to the side no?

[Kopenhagen]

Players who don't play always get better..

Well, considering our form with Lallana & Gini, I think fans are right to pine for them. He's very good at playing first-time passes vertical passes and keeping opponents penned in their half. His replacement, Can, took too many touches and moved the ball far too slowly last night. As someone seemingly instructed to play in a 433, he dropped far too deep to receive the ball too.

[didi shamone]

Well, considering our form with Lallana & Gini, I think fans are right to pine for them. He's very good at playing first-time passes vertical passes and keeping opponents penned in their half. His replacement, Can, took too many touches and moved the ball far too slowly last night. As someone seemingly instructed to play in a 433, he dropped far too deep to receive the ball too.

Our form like Burnley?  When we also failed to score. I'm with kinky here. It's just too simplistic to say " last nights result shows how much we missed x".   We're gonna fail to win lots of matches regardless of who plays. Same with every other team.

[rscanderlech]

Our form like Burnley?  When we also failed to score. I'm with kinky here. It's just too simplistic to say " last nights result shows how much we missed x".   We're gonna fail to win lots of matches regardless of who plays. Same with every other team.

Well sure but its not just the the result that people are observing but also the functioning of our midfield and the tempo of our game and so on. We then consider the attributes that would have solved those issues and notice that the absentees were perfectly fitted to address those deficiencies.

I would have thought that this is obvious--that is, that people aren't just looking at the scoreline and saying that the lineup caused us to draw, but are actually applyig their brains and engaging in basic analysis.

[Funky_Gibbons]

Wijnaldum hasn't been pulling up any trees so far but he has some attributes that are sorely missing from our midfield when both he and Lallana are injured that neither Can nor Henderson possess.

Can’t help but feel we’re a player short to fill in those positions when those two are not available. Personally I think we should have kept Allen for the last year of his contract rather than cashing in this summer, he’d have been a useful squad player to cover this season.

 

[Redman78]

Our form like Burnley?  When we also failed to score. I'm with kinky here. It's just too simplistic to say " last nights result shows how much we missed x".   We're gonna fail to win lots of matches regardless of who plays. Same with every other team.

I don't think we'd have necessarily seen a different result against utd tn Wijnaldum played, but come on, Burnley?  That was a one off result and certainly doesnt reflect our form in general.  I think it's very reasonable to suggest that we missed some of the attributes which he offers in that central midfield on monday.

[Crosby Nick]

Do we know when he's expected back?

[ScouserCal]

Wijnaldum hasn't been pulling up any trees so far but he has some attributes that are sorely missing from our midfield when both he and Lallana are injured that neither Can nor Henderson possess.

Can’t help but feel we’re a player short to fill in those positions when those two are not available. Personally I think we should have kept Allen for the last year of his contract rather than cashing in this summer, he’d have been a useful squad player to cover this season.

Couldn't agree anymore, as nearly all Liverpool fans do to be fair.

But you can't deny the lad wanting to play every week and for sure he's proving at Stoke why he should play every week.

Very similar to Wijnaldum in what he done for Liverpool just not as quick or mobile.

[carling]

It's to do with the blend of players really.  Even though Lovren, Matip, Can and Henderson have a lot of qualities between them, none of them are agile or quick on the turn.  Matip perhaps, but he doesn't step forward and make it count like Agger used to, for example.

Wijnaldum compliments them all much better and makes us a more fluid unit.  It's fairly obvious why Klopp signed him.

[Dench57]

Matip perhaps, but he doesn't step forward and make it count like Agger used to, for example.

I think we've seen flashes of this, sure we'll see more of it as he gets used to the league with more games under his belt.

[didi shamone]

Wijnaldum hasn't been pulling up any trees so far but he has some attributes that are sorely missing from our midfield when both he and Lallana are injured that neither Can nor Henderson possess.

Can’t help but feel we’re a player short to fill in those positions when those two are not available. Personally I think we should have kept Allen for the last year of his contract rather than cashing in this summer, he’d have been a useful squad player to cover this season.

Allen would have been useful as it turns out. I'm guessing Klopp is thinking Grugic for the long term. Looks like he could have more guile than our current midfielders.

[bornandbRED]

Matip perhaps, but he doesn't step forward and make it count like Agger used to, for example.

He very nearly did. Wasn't it his through ball that found Can?

[didi shamone]

I don't think we'd have necessarily seen a different result against utd tn Wijnaldum played, but come on, Burnley?  That was a one off result and certainly doesnt reflect our form in general.  I think it's very reasonable to suggest that we missed some of the attributes which he offers in that central midfield on monday.

That's precisely why I used the Burnley game. To highlight the futility of using one game as evidence of anything much. That said I would have preferred him to Can in the first half. Emre had a stinker although he improved greatly in the 2nd.

[didi shamone]

He very nearly did. Wasn't it his through ball that found Can?

It was.

[carling]

He very nearly did. Wasn't it his through ball that found Can?

Yep, great moment.  But Dagger used to make a huge difference in the build-up.  Don't get me wrong, if Matip is going to charge forward every game and put someone through on goal, then great

But for something more sustainable, we need a bit more fluidity in our approach play.  Something I don't think our CB and CM pairings were quite as suitable for on Monday.

[G Richards]

Man Utd were set up to frustrate us and Mourinho did what he's known for. Can offered some physicality in the middle as it was a war of attrition at times. He was rusty, and a bit slower to pass, which was understandable. Arguably Wijnaldum would have kept it all moving a bit faster and we'd have played around them better, but it's hard to say if that's what would have happened. Sturridge was also dropping deep so it was getting packed in the middle there, and Firmino was peripheral before he moved to the middle. When Lallana came on we had a better tempo too.

In other words, there were several factors at play as to why the performance was like that. Missing Wijnaldum was only one factor. I think the biggest factor was Mourinho and his determination to send out a team to stop us, rather than do much of anything themselves.

Frustrating and small time as it is, we'll learn from that.

[killer-heels]

It's to do with the blend of players really.  Even though Lovren, Matip, Can and Henderson have a lot of qualities between them, none of them are agile or quick on the turn.  Matip perhaps, but he doesn't step forward and make it count like Agger used to, for example.

Wijnaldum compliments them all much better and makes us a more fluid unit.  It's fairly obvious why Klopp signed him.

Has there been a defender who was as good as Agger coming forward? Surely he was a rare case in that aspect of the game? Who is there now who does that? Pique and Stones are the only ones i can think of.

[Kopenhagen]

Matip perhaps, but he doesn't step forward and make it count like Agger used to, for example.

That's exactly what he does...

[carling]

Matip has had a few moments, but he hasn't been contributing to our build-up play as regularly or as effectively as Agger used to.  And, in my opinion, nowhere near enough to make me think he could compensate for Wijnaldum missing.

[Crosby Nick]

Matip has had a few moments, but he hasn't been contributing to our build-up play as regularly or as effectively as Agger used to.  And, in my opinion, nowhere near enough to make me think he could compensate for Wijnaldum missing.

Matip's had a good marauding run forward v Spurs and the ball through to Can the other night.  Might be other moments from games he's played in that I've forgotten. Agger was great at it but I doubt he carved out gilt edged chances every game either. 

[carling]

Matip's had a good marauding run forward v Spurs and the ball through to Can the other night.  Might be other moments from games he's played in that I've forgotten. Agger was great at it but I doubt he carved out gilt edged chances every game either. 

It's not the gilt edged chances I'm talking about.  I just think we are bound to be a bit slower and less fluid without Wijnaldum in the team.  Mainly because both Can and Henderson are a bit ponderous and slow on the turn in comparison.  I also don't expect much to be made up by Lovren, who is also quite slow to release the ball or move forward with it. 

Matip there's a bit more potential to help in this respect, but I'm not seeing anything that suggests he could help make a Can / Henderson partnership work in a Klopp team.  Danny Agger perhaps could have done the way he routinely ghosted past players and sprayed passes around... but there aren't many of his ilk around.

No slight on Matip though, if that's how it's coming across...