Topic: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance

[Stan.]

Even with a tired and weary City and Arsenal, the league would be done for us now…the fact that they’re not and both are playing like they’re fresh as daisies just means there’s not even a glimmer of hope.  Also the way we’re like a pub side at the back and toothless in front of goal means I’m struggling to see where our next win comes from.  I wish Klopp was staying, but ultimately I just want this season done and the new guy in and getting to work.

[Cozzymoto]

We bottled it similar to what happened to Arsenal last year. Arsenal will bottle it this year as well when they lose to spurs. It’s citehs again this season.

[MonsLibpool]

Villa's draw tonight means that our season has all but ended officially.

Time to play the kids.

[harleydanger]

Can we turn the main title into Top Four Race?

PTSD inducing post.

The heady days of the Rafatolla

[slaphead]

10 points dropped in the last 5 league games. Our season died at that Fa Cup game at Old Trafford. Since then the belief to hold on to a lead and control games is gone. At thia point heads have gone both from Klopp and the lads. This is a bottle job. In the last 10 games, we have gone from chasing a quadruple to season being over already with just the league cup. Jurgen deserved more, much much more. The club raising the prices in the run in didnt help either. We were a club with everyone pulling in the same direction. Over the last 5 weeks, it seems like internally they have already moved on.

That's the bigger problem, we never seem to be able to take the lead never mind hold on to it. Did they say 24 times in 55 games we've went behind now ?  That's bonkers

[John C]

The only consolation for all of us distraught Reds is that unlike under previous managers before Jurgen (since 1990) when our season often ended in November, this year he took us close to the brink in the most unusual and bizarre circumstances I've ever known. And I'm glad for his sanity he's out of it.
The injuries is one thing, but the fucking officials is a different aspect of depressing bewilderment. The amount of unacceptable and unexplainable small and significant decisions that went against us would question why you allow yourself to consume, gorge and indeed self-harm to such an unfathomable extent.

[gray19lfc]

Serious question but before the season started and after the season we had last year, how many of us would have been happy with a cup win and a return to Champions League football?

[CHOPPER]

John, we can only control what is in our influence, from the early start of the season we’ve been conceding and chasing games, not controlling games, but chasing games - that’s not sustainable for a campaign.
Sure you can argue refereeing decisions, every fan, team and club can and will do, but make no mistakes about it, our porous defence, our profligate tendencies in front of goal almost on a half by half basis, and even though we put in some solid numbers ( though the porous bit at the back meant we had to), we couldn’t sustain it.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, and on reflection, we’ve been walking a tightrope all season and we just haven’t really seen it and looking at some of the disharmony that has reared its head, maybe that’s what tipped us over on that precarious tightrope we’ve been on.

Some down souls out there today, regular faces you get a smile from, this time it was a shrug and an air disappointment, people still carrying Wednesday with them and many hitting the same notes - it wasn’t sustainable and we became predictable over these final 2 months.

A new brush sweeps clean, they say, and perhaps that’s what we need in both the playing and coaching staff.

The king is dead, long live the king.

[mrantarctica]

Villa's draw tonight means that our season has all but ended officially.

Time to play the kids.

I don't think the elite players look at it like that. It is entirely plausible that Tottenham and Man Utd could beat Arsenal in their home games, meaning that Arsenal end up with 83 points, which we still have a shout at beating. I think it's pretty much impossible that Man City will end up with less points than that, but stranger things have happened in the league.

The key thing is to not look at what's going on elsewhere. The players need to really buckle down and get 3 more wins under the belt to finish the season strongly. A new manager is going to be coming in, and for many players, their place at Liverpool is going to be under scrutiny. What better time to get themselves focussed and give it everything they've got?

[mrantarctica]

John, we can only control what is in our influence, from the early start of the season we’ve been conceding and chasing games, not controlling games, but chasing games - that’s not sustainable for a campaign.
Sure you can argue refereeing decisions, every fan, team and club can and will do, but make no mistakes about it, our porous defence, our profligate tendencies in front of goal almost on a half by half basis, and even though we put in some solid numbers ( though the porous bit at the back meant we had to), we couldn’t sustain it.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, and on reflection, we’ve been walking a tightrope all season and we just haven’t really seen it and looking at some of the disharmony that has reared its head, maybe that’s what tipped us over on that precarious tightrope we’ve been on.

Some down souls out there today, regular faces you get a smile from, this time it was a shrug and an air disappointment, people still carrying Wednesday with them and many hitting the same notes - it wasn’t sustainable and we became predictable over these final 2 months.

A new brush sweeps clean, they say, and perhaps that’s what we need in both the playing and coaching staff.

The king is dead, long live the king.

Both the Egyptian one and the German one perhaps?

I think there'll be time to reflect at the end of the season. We've taken a number of knocks in the the recent weeks which have dented hopes. I hope the players can pick themselves up once again just for these last games and bring us some wins and go out with pride and courage and a bit of a bang

[spider-neil]

It's all gone a bit Roy Evans.  Oh well, we lost a lot of experience last summer but it was fun while it lasted.  For years I didn't expect to even be in a title race never mind actually winning the thing when we did!  Cheers Jurgen.

What's is Roy Evans cockney slang for?

[spider-neil]

Serious question but before the season started and after the season we had last year, how many of us would have been happy with a cup win and a return to Champions League football?

Especially after a midfield overhaul and Chelsea spending a billion.

[has gone odd]

Desperately trying to find positives among this end of season shit-fest. CL qualification is definitely one of them.

[spider-neil]

The disappointment is the teams we've dropped points to.

Manu - Are shit
Everton - Are shit
Palace - Have had a recent resurgence but we were at home
West Ham - Are in terrible form

Winning those games but dropping points to Villa away (4th) and Spurs home (5th) would have been far more understandable.

[RedKenWah]

If city and arsenal both lose this weekend then we've gained a point in the race. ITS ON!

The thing is though the way we are at, even if today both Arse and 115’s lose I would still put it on us to put out an inept performance v Spurs and not take advantage. It’s almost like punishment really, just prolonging the inevitable.

Overall happy with the progress from last season and back in the Champions League. I just hope the new manager approached that like Jurgen and not like Brendan.

[Party Phil]

The disappointment is the teams we've dropped points to.

Manu - Are shit
Everton - Are shit
Palace - Have had a recent resurgence but we were at home
West Ham - Are in terrible form

Winning those games but dropping points to Villa away (4th) and Spurs home (5th) would have been far more understandable.

Good news! That can still, and probably will, happen 

[BobPaisley3]

Good news! That can still, and probably will, happen 

[lionel_messias]

Anyone who typed or said the word "Quadruple" this season
should have their gonads punched.

Especially Danny Murphy.

[spider-neil]

One point needed from three games is all that is needed as there is a 20-goal GD on Villa. Even we would be hard pressed to fuck that up.

[spider-neil]

Anyone who typed or said the word "Quadruple" this season
should have their gonads punched.

Especially Danny Murphy.

When Murphy and Merson tipped us for the league it was over.

[Son of Spion]

Anyone who typed or said the word "Quadruple" this season
should have their gonads punched.

Especially Danny Murphy.

This "quadruple" was only ever a media construction. An utterly ridiculous one at that. 'The Quad' never entered my mind. It was just media nonsense. Basically, in this country they love setting people up to fail, so they can then drone on endlessly a out 'how it fell apart'. 

For me, and I think most of us, a top four place and a cup was about the most I expected this season. Yes, as the season panned out maybe a bit more seemed possible, but overall I'd say we've achieved par for the course.

[Kekule]

This "quadruple" was only ever a media construction. An utterly ridiculous one at that. 'The Quad' never entered my mind. It was just media nonsense. Basically, in this country they love setting people up to fail, so they can then drone on endlessly an out 'how it fell apart'. 

It was also, bizarrely, constructed to ridicule us even if we’d done it.  In a few quarters there was very much a  “hahahaha silly scousers, it’s not a real quadruple as it doesn’t include the European Cup” sentiment going around.

As if we’d have been the only side without European Cup quadruple to our name. Very odd behaviour.

[MonsLibpool]

This "quadruple" was only ever a media construction. An utterly ridiculous one at that. 'The Quad' never entered my mind. It was just media nonsense. Basically, in this country they love setting people up to fail, so they can then drone on endlessly a out 'how it fell apart'. 

For me, and I think most of us, a top four place and a cup was about the most I expected this season. Yes, as the season panned out maybe a bit more seemed possible, but overall I'd say we've achieved par for the course.

They wanted to build us up to knock us down.

[KC7]

We bottled it similar to what happened to Arsenal last year. Arsenal will bottle it this year as well when they lose to spurs. It’s citehs again this season.

We didn't bottle anything. Ultimately our leaky defensive set up with a porous midfield caught up with us.

We've gone behind in 16 PL games, 23 games total for the season, the joint--most (equalling last season). We kept pulling rabbits out of the bag to rescue it, but when it got to the business end when the pressure ramps up it's natural those rescue acts would fade.

This goes back to summer '22 when we didn't address the midfield collapse when there was no longer any legs in there. All the Klopp characteristics about intensity, the press, heavy metal football, all went out the window, and the midfield offered the least resistance to opponents. That season was a write off from that summer window. A year on we only partially addressed this area by bringing in quality 8s, but there is only so much they can do. It's still very disjointed, so much so we've put Mac in the 6 (if it was done as we had an injury crisis fair enough but we don't). It was very easy for opponents to open us up by waltzing through midfield in 22-23, and its only marginally improved this season. We still cough up easy chances as the DM is bottom half standard.

Virgil has had a great season, as has Quansah, but there is fuck all protection in front of them. Trailing behind opposing runners is the theme from the DM. That Atalanta game was a massacre, and they targeted him (both full backs, Tsimikas and Gomez, were also dreadful). What was extraordinary is that less than 72 hour later, the boss selects the same unathletic 31 year old DM who got rinsed in that game to play against Palace, the same opponent who targeted him at their place, and shock horror they exploited him again as we gave up the first half. I've never questioned Klopp before in eight and a half years until I seen the team selection at 1:10pm 50 minutes prior to kick-off as it went against everything he professed..."freshness, energy" and yet less than 72 hours after getting run ragged he picks a player who was goosed to start against another opponent who would go after him. That was the game where I thought he is leaving at the right time for him as he never would have made such an error before. He hooked him at half time, leaving us another game to turn it around in a half of football, but it was one comeback too many and that is the game when it was no longer in our hands. It really seemed to end with that game. But that selection was dreadful. I didn't (couldn't) watch the game after seeing the teamsheet. Watched a film and checked the result, and there was an inevitability about it: shit first half, player gets hauled off, team does everything to turn it around but just falls short this time with the pressure too much given the stakes.

The frustration really is that we are so close to being a top side. And it would have been a great way for Jurgen to go. But you cannot try and wing it by playing such a substandard player in a pivotal position.

[kaesarsosei]

It is entirely plausible that Tottenham and Man Utd could beat Arsenal in their home games, meaning that Arsenal end up with 83 points, which we still have a shout at beating. I think it's pretty much impossible that Man City will end up with less points than that, but stranger things have happened in the league.

Stranger things have happened you say, have they though? If we won the league from here it would almost certainly be the most unlikely, unprecedented title win in the history of top flight football anywhere in Europe.

I mean there's optimism, but come on.

[PaulKS]

Fat lady has sang then

What a sad end to what looked like an incredible campaign

50/50 on who i want to win it from here... City's title's mean nothing but also a bit sick of them

[spider-neil]

Fat lady has sang then

What a sad end to what looked like an incredible campaign

50/50 on who i want to win it from here... City's title's mean nothing but also a bit sick of them

Maybe with another win the people that give them all the favourable decision will see the league has become the Bundesliga and only Klopp stopped it being 6 titles in a row.

[A-Bomb]

We bottled it similar to what happened to Arsenal last year. Arsenal will bottle it this year as well when they lose to spurs. It’s citehs again this season.

The thing is mate, on day 1 of this season - even the most optimistic fan, never believed we could or should have been in a title race. We’ve done exceptionally well to have got this far with it being in contention.

I’m devastated that the lasting memory of most outside the club for Jurgens last season, will be what you’ve written above. But the reality is, he’s given a bridge into the next chapter of this football club.

I can’t articulate in words how very grateful I am to him for doing that (he was ready to go over a year ago) but he stayed, not for money or pride - but on principle, he would not leave this club until he was satisfied he could hand it over in good shape, and oh boy has he done that.

[Hestoic]

Serious question but before the season started and after the season we had last year, how many of us would have been happy with a cup win and a return to Champions League football?

I'm happy with a cup win and CL football. I'm not happy about not winning the league though. Personally, after about a month of the season I saw enough for us to go and win it and thought we could. Injuries have totally ruined that for us unfortunately and I think without them we'd be several points clear of the top. Officials have also played their part in derailing our season with bullshit decisions.

[buttersstotch]

On the Football Weekly podcast, Jonny Liew made a great point that I tend to agree with upon reflection. The reality is out of Man City and Arsenal, we are the third best team and I think this is just us setting in to the mean currently. We've re-built our entire midfield and we still have more work to do as a team.

It's disappointing, but outside of a period mid-season we've never truly been convincing. We can point to awful injuries and some truly bizzare decisions which went against us, but that's all part of the luck you need to win a title. Loads to be positive about this season, but April has shown us that we have some pieces of work to do across the whole team.

[spider-neil]

On the Football Weekly podcast, Jonny Liew made a great point that I tend to agree with upon reflection. The reality is out of Man City and Arsenal, we are the third best team and I think this is just us setting in to the mean currently. We've re-built our entire midfield and we still have more work to do as a team.

It's disappointing, but outside of a period mid-season we've never truly been convincing. We can point to awful injuries and some truly bizzare decisions which went against us, but that's all part of the luck you need to win a title. Loads to be positive about this season, but April has shown us that we have some pieces of work to do across the whole team.

When you look at the underlying numbers and not just the points on the board we are the third best time in the league.

[collytum]

I think man city will win their remaining games and the defeat at palace would ultimately have been the deciding Game, even if we had beaten Everton and Westham. It's almost a relief, I would be ten times more frustrated to go to the final day hoping they slip up and lost by a point or 2.

[Jon2lfc]

We bottled it similar to what happened to Arsenal last year. Arsenal will bottle it this year as well when they lose to spurs. It’s citehs again this season.

Don't know if it's an age thing or if 'bottled' has changed definition over the years.

But when we were young, if someone was 'bottling' it it meant that they were ducking out in a cowardly fashion. Or in other words, scared to do something due to the other parties perceived dominance.

This word cannot be applied to LFC. Certainly not under Klopp. And certainly not in our current malaise.

We haven't bottled anything. We've just been low on confidence; fatigued; a bit lazy; out of sorts, etc.

Probably THE only thing we've bottled that I've seen, is bottling out of 50/50 tackles like we did with Everton the other day.
But that's it.

Low confidence is not directly equal to 'bottling'.

[Cesar]

If city and arsenal both lose this weekend then we've gained a point in the race. ITS ON!

It's BACK OFF AGAIN!

[darragh85]

That's champions league done.

Target met. 

[Cozzymoto]

Why is this thread still even here? Should be renamed to getting top 4 finish.

[UntouchableLuis]

That's champions league done.

Target met. 

Yeah.

When the dust settles it will be brilliant to be back in the CL.

Let's face it - Europa is a shite competition.

Next season let's go for number 7!

[MonsLibpool]

That's champions league done.

Target met.

Not bad to be fair.

[Keith Lard]

That's champions league done.

Target met. 

We’ve been so wobbly recently it made me look over my shoulder at Villa and Spurs unfortunately, and become grateful for 3rd place.

[darragh85]

Why is this thread still even here? Should be renamed to getting top 4 finish.

Because some of us haven't thrown in the towel