Topic: Players signed by Rafael Benitez

[Brunes27]

Sound Post...

Well done lad...

[Jonno_]

Questions over Benitez' transfer tactics really wind me up.

Every player he has bought over 5 million has been successful bar a few (Doss, Babel and ... Lucas*)

The players he has bought for over 5 million that have been sold since, have made a profit covering up both the Dossena and Babel mistake.

Other players are necessary players whom I believe Benitez has no long term intention with, and are stepping stones into building a stronger all round squad.

[merseypride]

Posting a link to this on my facebook profile!  Excellent Post!

[Walshy nMe®]

torres apart i dont really see a tremendous amount of improvement in the squad or the way we play.

So Reina, Agger, Johnson, Mascherano, Riera, Kuyt and Aquliani (hopefully) are not an improvement on that side? Top goalscorers and 2nd in the league last year shows we are creative enough.

[Mikuss]

If anyone has the time, could they put the squad up that Rafa inherited to the squad we have now?

[Norway_is_red]

If anyone has the time, could they put the squad up that Rafa inherited to the squad we have now?

Houllier days.

1 Jerzy Dudek
22 Christopher Kirkland
29 Patrice Luzi
 
23 James Carragher
3 Stephen Finnan
2 Stéphane Henchoz
4 Sami Hyypiä
18 John Arne Riise
21 Djimi Traoré
37 Zak Whitbread     
 
25 Igor Biscan
28 Bruno Cheyrou
15 Salif Alassane Diao
 Michael Foley-Sheridan
17 Steven Gerrard
16 Dietmar Hamann
7 Harry Kewell
20 Anthony Le Tallec
13 Daniel Murphy
26 Ritchie Partridge
34 Darren Potter
11 Vladimir Smicer
32 John Welsh
 
5 Milan Baros
9 El Hadji Diouf
8 Emile Heskey
10 Michael Owen
24 Florent Sinama-Pongolle

Rafa


1. Diego Cavalieri
2. Glen Johnson
4. Alberto Aquilani
5. Daniel Agger
8. Steven Gerrard
9. Fernando Torres
10. Andriy Voronin
11. Albert Riera
12. Fabio Aurelio
15. Yossi Benayoun
16. Sotirios Kyrgiakos
18. Dirk Kuyt
19. Ryan Babel
20. Javier Mascherano
21. Lucas Leiva
22. Emiliano Insua
23. Jamie Carragher
24. David Ngog
25. Pepe Reina
26. Jay Spearing
27. Philipp Degen
28. Damien Plessis
29. Krisztian Nemeth
31. Nabil El Zhar
32. Stephen Darby
34. Martin Kelly
37. Martin Skrtel
38. Andrea Dossena

 

[Oscar3]

I wouldnt mind seeing David Moyes' figures during his reign at Everton.His net spend,i wonder what that is?Hes very good at the spin to his fans and they seem to fall for it as his excuse to win nothing!It might be going off topic but i think it would be interesting to compare with rafa if anyone can find them........

[Norway_is_red]

Best 11 out of all those players would in my opinion be something like this.

Reina, best keeper in the Prem in my opinion, with a good fight from Given, and the unsung hero that is Jussi.

Johnson, Fantastic RB
Carra, On his day, one of the finest CB's, so what if he's having a hard time atm, he's not past it.
Hyypia(Agger) A legend, and a player that could become a Legend? (Legend is thrown around a lot these days, Hyypia is a Leg.)
Aurelio, _WHEN FIT_. Sadly, he isn't fit all that often.

Mascherano, One of the best, if not THE best Defensive Midfielder in the world.
Aquilani\Hamman, I believe Aquilani will be brilliant for us, Hamman was a great player!

Benayoun, Fantastic player, underrated doesn't even come close.
Gerrard, Best midfielder in the world, not being biased. (Where did I put my glasses?)
Kuyt, Had a dip in form this season, but was brilliant for us last season, scored some vital goals.

Torres, Do you really have to ask? Best striker in the world.

[Mikuss]

I think this shows how much the squad has actually changed during the years he's been here. The squad on paper is much stronger than the one he inherited.

[Livid]

Is Benitez standing in the way of long term improvement at Liverpool?
Honest question and a compliment to the manager, if anything.*
If he carries on getting a top four spot and having a run in the CL while working under your yanks, is he simply helping prolong the status quo?
Maybe if he went and a couple of his players left with him, the resulting slide would force your owners to sell.
The new manager might not be as good, but the conditions would be better and might that balance the whole thing out?
I think he deserves credit for the job he's done, but that credit will most likely be cashed in when he's looking for a new job. He's in an incredibly strong position, and will have no problem walking into a job in Spain or Italy, but LFC will be up shit creek without him and with the current owners still in charge.
I doubt he's worried, but you lot should be.

*I rate him as a manager, but I think he does make  mistakes. His biggest will probably be ruining Fernando Torres in the long term by playing him as a loan striker even when not fully fit with a workload that will fuck his hamstrings. Games like Fulham and (probably) the upcoming match with Lyon are prime examples of Benitez sacrificing Torres for the team. He should be properly rested.

[benny]

Is Benitez standing in the way of long term improvement at Liverpool?
Honest question and a compliment to the manager, if anything.*
If he carries on getting a top four spot and having a run in the CL while working under your yanks, is he simply helping prolong the status quo?
Maybe if he went and a couple of his players left with him, the resulting slide would force your owners to sell.
The new manager might not be as good, but the conditions would be better and might that balance the whole thing out?
I think he deserves credit for the job he's done, but that credit will most likely be cashed in when he's looking for a new job. He's in an incredibly strong position, and will have no problem walking into a job in Spain or Italy, but LFC will be up shit creek without him and with the current owners still in charge.
I doubt he's worried, but you lot should be.

*I rate him as a manager, but I think he does make  mistakes. His biggest will probably be ruining Fernando Torres in the long term by playing him as a loan striker even when not fully fit with a workload that will fuck his hamstrings. Games like Fulham and (probably) the upcoming match with Lyon are prime examples of Benitez sacrificing Torres for the team. He should be properly rested.

So if he brings Torres off with half an hour to go he gets slaughtered,but now your saying he's ruining him by playing him,fucks sake no wonder he can't win

[Dr Cornwallis]

I actually agree with most of that Livid.
I would love Benitez to quit, but under the proviso that he would return when the yanks were fucked off.
We need to force their hand, and Rafa going would put the spotlight firmly on them, where it always should have been, as they are tasked with replacing him and explaining it.  Personally, I don't think they'd go through it, I think the fall-out from fans would be huge and the players would be very vocal on the matter.  It's not right, it's not how Liverpool conduct their business, but it's looking increasingly likely that we need to play the game if we want them out in time for next Summer.
You cannot expect a manager to compete at the top with a transfer kitty of £16m each season.

[shanklyboy]

So if he brings Torres off with half an hour to go he gets slaughtered,but now your saying he's ruining him by playing him,fucks sake no wonder he can't win

For 2 seasons the experts told us that Benitez should ALWAYS start with his strongest team.
Play Torres ......let him score then give him a rest.

Imagine the reaction if he hadn't started with him last Saturday!

Damned if he does.......damned if he doesn't.

A few weeks ago Ferguson made 7 unforced changes for their home game against Sunderland and got battered.
As they managed to scrape an equaliser via an own goal in the 175th minute............not a cough!

[richiedouglas]

For 2 seasons the experts told us that Benitez should ALWAYS start with his strongest team.
Play Torres ......let him score then give him a rest.

Imagine the reaction if he hadn't started with him last Saturday!

Damned if he does.......damned if he doesn't.

A few weeks ago Ferguson made 7 unforced changes for their home game against Sunderland and got battered.
As they managed to scrape an equaliser via an own goal in the 175th minute............not a cough!

Very good point!

[Graham Smith]

I've had a couple of people ask about the Union's view of the Manager Debate.

Pretty simple response really - we support the Manager as a role within the Club in that he should have approriate resources for the size and profile of Club we are and be allowed the reinvestment of profits we SHOULD have available. In addition we expect the manager to be able to manage the team through the selection of players (transfers), personnel (team) and tactics without interference from third parties within the Club or outside.

All Union members will have individual views about who the manager is at any given time but it is not and never will be our role to lobby for a manger to be sacked or a particular manager to be brought in.

[Anoynymouslad87]

Buy Crouch, Sell for profit, Sell Cisse on loan and buy Torres. Thats the way the world works when you dont have 60 million to splash on Rooney and Berbatov and further 30 on Andersen and Nani and 20 on Tosic and Ljajic.

Get a perspective.

And oh Status Quo? Like finishing with 86 points? That would have won us the league any other season. Is that what you call status quo? Going from a shit team which played in Champions League 2005 to a team which has far better players than United Squad?

Lets see who would walk in the United team from the current liverpool squad -

Torres, Benayoun, Gerrard, Masch, Johnson, Reina and maybe Aquilani too. Not bad eh?

Where to start, firstly, Tosic and Ljalic 20 million? where did you get that from?
I can just as easily spin what you said to say ..... you were able to spend 34 million on Johnson and Aquilani.......38 million on Torres and Mascherano.......you see its very easy to manilpulate a situation in your favour. And before you go mentioning how many players you sold to get that, remember we have also been able to sell.

AND FINISHING WITH 86 POINTS WOULD NOT HAVE WON YOU THE LEAGUE IN ANY OTHER SEASON, STOP SAYING THIS, THIS IS A LIE. 86 POINTS WOULD NOT HAVE WON YOU THE TITLE SINCE 2003.
86 points is just the highest number a runner up has finished with, GET IT RIGHT.

Its funny you say all those players would walk into our team, yet we've finished above you for each of the last 3 seasons.
Besides, Id not have Reina over Van der Sar, I certainly wouldnt have a crocked Aquilani ahead of any of our central midfielders.
There's potential in Nani and Valencia so Benayoun would also be deemed surplus to requirements.
Mascherano is limited. I'd choose about 10 other DM's before him.

[RJH]

Is Benitez standing in the way of long term improvement at Liverpool?
Honest question and a compliment to the manager, if anything.*
If he carries on getting a top four spot and having a run in the CL while working under your yanks, is he simply helping prolong the status quo?
Maybe if he went and a couple of his players left with him, the resulting slide would force your owners to sell.
The new manager might not be as good, but the conditions would be better and might that balance the whole thing out?
I think he deserves credit for the job he's done, but that credit will most likely be cashed in when he's looking for a new job. He's in an incredibly strong position, and will have no problem walking into a job in Spain or Italy, but LFC will be up shit creek without him and with the current owners still in charge.
I doubt he's worried, but you lot should be.

I think there are some awfully big "if's" in there.
There's the risk of ending up like Leeds, ans sliding right out the league.
There's also no guarantee the owners would sell to anyone better. Especially if we were a club going downhill, there's every chance we could get bought by someone looking to make some quick money.

[SP]

But then if Rafa does build success it is likely to provide the perfect time for the owners to sell at the maximum price. The owners are not stupid and know that they are unlikely to fund sustained success. I see success rather than failure as the more likely route for them to leave.

Admittedly the likely buyers would probably be trophy hunters and we'd be screwed in a Chelsea whim kind of way.

[۩ Imperator ۩]

The original post is an excellent one, but it is very disrespectful to Vladimir Smicer's contribution in Istanbul. Played a small part? There's no way we would have won it without him.

[Livid]

For 2 seasons the experts told us that Benitez should ALWAYS start with his strongest team.
Play Torres ......let him score then give him a rest.

Imagine the reaction if he hadn't started with him last Saturday!

Damned if he does.......damned if he doesn't.

A few weeks ago Ferguson made 7 unforced changes for their home game against Sunderland and got battered.
As they managed to scrape an equaliser via an own goal in the 175th minute............not a cough!

You make an important point. Ferguson doesn't give a fuck what the 'experts' think he should do.
He might make mistakes, but they're his own mistakes.
If Benitez is only playing Torres because he thinks he'll get a pasting in the press otherwise, he's too easily influenced.
As for 'not a cough'...pretty much everybody realised and reported that he'd got it wrong and was trying to deflect attention by criticising Wiley. The key difference is, we bounced back and are still up there with Chelsea. Plus, the amount of times Ferguson has been written off and come back to deliver trophies means it's easy for a journo to end up with egg on his face.
Benitez hasn't earned that right yet, whatever his circumstances, and it would be madness for him not to be under some pressure considering your current run of results.
Not all your defeats have come while you've had an injury crisis, and teams with far poorer squads assembled with far less money would be asking questions of their manager if they lost 6 in 7.
Although the ownership issue is a very real problem, there has to be some separation between that and what happens on the pitch. Otherwise, you'll overlook other problems because there's an easy scapegoat. Ironically, that's also what the press are doing, but with different issues and a different scapegoat.

[markmywords]

I actually agree with most of that Livid.
I would love Benitez to quit, but under the proviso that he would return when the yanks were fucked off.
We need to force their hand, and Rafa going would put the spotlight firmly on them, where it always should have been, as they are tasked with replacing him and explaining it.  Personally, I don't think they'd go through it, I think the fall-out from fans would be huge and the players would be very vocal on the matter.  It's not right, it's not how Liverpool conduct their business, but it's looking increasingly likely that we need to play the game if we want them out in time for next Summer.
You cannot expect a manager to compete at the top with a transfer kitty of £16m each season.

There is no guarantee the next owner is going to be any better. Only Chelsea & Man city have outspent Rafa in his time at LFC )and man city's spending took place last summer, so our inability to win the league previously can't be blamed on them) If the next manager can claim that in 5 yrs time, he will be very lucky

[joezydudek]

Only Chelsea & Man city have outspent Rafa in his time at LFC

And the only two teams to have won the league during Rafa's time at LFC have been?

[afcgooner]

I think the main problem at Liverpool is money. You lack the funds to build a top squad to compete year in year out in the league. Is there no news on the stadium?

[DangerScouse]

The original post is an excellent one, but it is very disrespectful to Vladimir Smicer's contribution in Istanbul. Played a small part? There's no way we would have won it without him.

Haha . . .good man. Thought the exact same myself.

[TommySmithsLiver]

Best 11 out of all those players would in my opinion be something like this.

Reina, best keeper in the Prem in my opinion, with a good fight from Given, and the unsung hero that is Jussi.

Johnson, Fantastic RB
Carra, On his day, one of the finest CB's, so what if he's having a hard time atm, he's not past it.
Hyypia(Agger) A legend, and a player that could become a Legend? (Legend is thrown around a lot these days, Hyypia is a Leg.)
Aurelio, _WHEN FIT_. Sadly, he isn't fit all that often.

Mascherano, One of the best, if not THE best Defensive Midfielder in the world.
Aquilani\Hamman, I believe Aquilani will be brilliant for us, Hamman was a great player!

Benayoun, Fantastic player, underrated doesn't even come close.
Gerrard, Best midfielder in the world, not being biased. (Where did I put my glasses?)
Kuyt, Had a dip in form this season, but was brilliant for us last season, scored some vital goals.

Torres, Do you really have to ask? Best striker in the world.

For that many bests in the world we aren't half underperforming.

[The 5th Benitle]

For that many bests in the world we aren't half underperforming.

Yep. And most of them are, or have been injured. Do you see the correlation?

[shanklyboy]

Where to start, firstly, Tosic and Ljalic 20 million? where did you get that from?
I can just as easily spin what you said to say ..... you were able to spend 34 million on Johnson and Aquilani.......38 million on Torres and Mascherano.......you see its very easy to manilpulate a situation in your favour. And before you go mentioning how many players you sold to get that, remember we have also been able to sell.

AND FINISHING WITH 86 POINTS WOULD NOT HAVE WON YOU THE LEAGUE IN ANY OTHER SEASON, STOP SAYING THIS, THIS IS A LIE. 86 POINTS WOULD NOT HAVE WON YOU THE TITLE SINCE 2003.
86 points is just the highest number a runner up has finished with, GET IT RIGHT.

Its funny you say all those players would walk into our team, yet we've finished above you for each of the last 3 seasons.
Besides, Id not have Reina over Van der Sar, I certainly wouldnt have a crocked Aquilani ahead of any of our central midfielders.
There's potential in Nani and Valencia so Benayoun would also be deemed surplus to requirements.
Mascherano is limited. I'd choose about 10 other DM's before him.

You are entitled to your opinion of VDS over Reina.As you are about Benayoun and Mascherano.
However they are proven talents whereas Valencia is nothing special for £17 million and Nani for £14 million. Both with potential? That's the difference isn't it?
Mascherano is limited? Maybe that's why him and Lucas have completely bossed your midfield in the last 3 meetings! Or why Ferguson was so keen to get Mascherano. Then again he always had the wonderful Hargreaves to fall back on.

The fees for Tosic and Ljalic are debatable, but are thought to be in the region of £10 & £7 million respectively. That's not bad for one lad who is an out and out reserve and another who isn't even at your club. That's more than we paid for the majority of players in our starting 11. So it's more about the money you can afford to gamble with or throwaway, knowing there is plenty more where that came from, when we don't have that luxury. Berbatov is a prime example of that.
I would imagine if you were paying the same kind of money for the majority of your first team players it would be a different attitude.

Your logic about not wanting our players because you have finished above us for the past 3 years is laughable. You bought Valencia didn't you.......who did he play for?

Are you telling me you wouldn't want any of these:
Gerrard, Torres,Agger,Johson,Lampard,Terry,Essien,Drogba,Van Persie,Arshavin,Cole, or Fabregas as they all played for teams that finished below you too! Ridiculous statement to make!
 

[joezydudek]

For that many bests in the world we aren't half underperforming.

And therein lies the problem, too many players this season are letting Rafa and the fans down by not performing to the standards they are capable of. Injuries obviously don't help either, but they can't be used as the only excuse. Rafa could get part of the blame for not getting the best out of the players, but he's got them playing well at the past and those who are letting him down need to take a look at themselves.

[jDJ]

You make an important point. Ferguson doesn't give a fuck what the 'experts' think he should do.
He might make mistakes, but they're his own mistakes.
If Benitez is only playing Torres because he thinks he'll get a pasting in the press otherwise, he's too easily influenced.
As for 'not a cough'...pretty much everybody realised and reported that he'd got it wrong and was trying to deflect attention by criticising Wiley. The key difference is, we bounced back and are still up there with Chelsea. Plus, the amount of times Ferguson has been written off and come back to deliver trophies means it's easy for a journo to end up with egg on his face.
Benitez hasn't earned that right yet, whatever his circumstances, and it would be madness for him not to be under some pressure considering your current run of results.
Not all your defeats have come while you've had an injury crisis, and teams with far poorer squads assembled with far less money would be asking questions of their manager if they lost 6 in 7.
Although the ownership issue is a very real problem, there has to be some separation between that and what happens on the pitch. Otherwise, you'll overlook other problems because there's an easy scapegoat. Ironically, that's also what the press are doing, but with different issues and a different scapegoat.

You can't seperate the financial situation off the pitch with what happens on it.  Financial backing is why United have dominated English football.  They pay the biggest wages, the biggest transfer fees and therefore sign the best players.  Nani, Anderson, Tocsic - barely touch the first team, all bought for huge sums of money.  Since Sky bought the rights to top flite English football only Arsenal have won the title despite their financial situation.  Every single other side has won as a direct result of the money they've spent.  Why is it English clubs have suddenly started dominating Europe...have we all just suddenly begun to understand how European football works?  No, it's because English clubs are the richest.  Real Madrid are one of the favourites for this season's Champions League because they spent christ knows how much money in the summer.

Benitez has done a remarkable job considering the financial constraints he's worked under, fcking Ferguson or Ancelotti certainly couldn't have managed it, Mourinho wouldn't even have tried. 

Until Liverpool receive large scale investment then we'll continue to struggle for consistency.  We'll continue to be one or two bad signings, or an injury crisis away from being an also-ran rather than a serious challenger.  Once we get our first XI back fit, we're capable of beating any side in this country and in europe and the manager deserves every scrap of credit for that.

I'm behind him 100% ta very much...most of those criticising him haven't got a fcking clue.

[TommySmithsLiver]

Yep. And most of them are, or have been injured. Do you see the correlation?

Are you implying our injuries are worse than other teams?  Cos I look up the 56 and those scruffy bastards seem to have had a full treatment room too, Chelsea don't look to been immune and Arsenal have more than the odd knock as well.

[shanklyboy]

You make an important point. Ferguson doesn't give a fuck what the 'experts' think he should do.
He might make mistakes, but they're his own mistakes.
If Benitez is only playing Torres because he thinks he'll get a pasting in the press otherwise, he's too easily influenced.
As for 'not a cough'...pretty much everybody realised and reported that he'd got it wrong and was trying to deflect attention by criticising Wiley. The key difference is, we bounced back and are still up there with Chelsea. Plus, the amount of times Ferguson has been written off and come back to deliver trophies means it's easy for a journo to end up with egg on his face.
Benitez hasn't earned that right yet, whatever his circumstances, and it would be madness for him not to be under some pressure considering your current run of results.
Not all your defeats have come while you've had an injury crisis, and teams with far poorer squads assembled with far less money would be asking questions of their manager if they lost 6 in 7.
Although the ownership issue is a very real problem, there has to be some separation between that and what happens on the pitch. Otherwise, you'll overlook other problems because there's an easy scapegoat. Ironically, that's also what the press are doing, but with different issues and a different scapegoat.

Can you see any mention in my post about Benitez's team selection being influenced by the press!
There was no condemnation about Fergusons team selection BEFORE the game kicked off............none whatsoever. If you don't believe me get a copy of the game and watch it.
It got a brief mention after the game and nothing more. It was mentioned that they didn't play well but Fergusons team selection wasn't dissected, analysed and debated ad infinitum like Benitez's would have been.

I'm not interested in what Ferguson has won. That earns him fuck all apart from respect.
It doesn't prevent him being wrong before the fact, like Benitez is accused of being.

[Il Nina]

For that many bests in the world we aren't half underperforming.

But how many of those 'bests' have played consistently together this season? How many are injured? When they all have played (Aquilani obviously aside) together last season and at times this season, look how well they played, how they mauled teams, and some of the best teams mind. On paper we have a great first team (hopefully Aquilani can replace Alonso in that). All teams have rough patches. Funny, we still beat Man U in that rough patch.

Back to Rafa selling decent players...Its being able to afford decent back ups and keeping them on the bench, which is our problem with the money we have available or lack of. Am sure if Rafa could he would love to be able to bring on a Crouch, a Hypia, a Garcia, but these players either weren't content to sit on a bench and/or wanted to go else where to play more regularly and therefore sold on to improve other areas of our 1st team squad. Unfortunatly we can't compete with high wage demands like Chelsea and Man city to have a great set of second stringers.

[The 5th Benitle]

Are you implying our injuries are worse than other teams?  Cos I look up the 56 and those scruffy bastards seem to have had a full treatment room too, Chelsea don't look to been immune and Arsenal have more than the odd knock as well.

We had an entire team out on saturday. Yes, I am saying that we have worse problems. Far worse.

[TommySmithsLiver]

We had an entire team out on saturday. Yes, I am saying that we have worse problems. Far worse.

I agree we have far worse problems than the other "big 4 teams", my issue is we don't have far worse injuries.  Our first team is world beating but our squad isn't and that's the problem.

[Livid]

Can you see any mention in my post about Benitez's team selection being influenced by the press!
There was no condemnation about Fergusons team selection BEFORE the game kicked off............none whatsoever. If you don't believe me get a copy of the game and watch it.
It got a brief mention after the game and nothing more. It was mentioned that they didn't play well but Fergusons team selection wasn't dissected, analysed and debated ad infinitum like Benitez's would have been.

I'm not interested in what Ferguson has won. That earns him fuck all apart from respect.
It doesn't prevent him being wrong before the fact, like Benitez is accused of being.

You misunderstood me mate. The important point I thought you made was that Ferguson doesn't give a shit what the press say about his choices, regardless. You might have meant something else, fair enough.
I also said 'if' Benitez is influenced by the press, I don't necessarily believe he is.
My point which got us started down this road was that Torres shouldn't be played when he's not fully fit.
I don't buy into this 'play your best team every game' bollocks, and I've never accused Benitez of the shit you hear on Sky Sports.
But, for one reason or another, Torres has often started when he's not fit, and although it has paid off (against us a week ago is a perfect example) it will damage him in the long term.
He plays alone up front, does a lot of chasing and is the focal point of your attack. He takes a lot of kicks and often has two defenders on him. I'd be interested to see his injury record at Atleti compared to his one at Liverpool.

[the_prodigal_s0n]

I think one very important point that was missed in our defeat to Fulham was the cost of our defence. We had a huge injury crisis, sure. But our defence was especially harmed by that. Our defence on Saturday cost 2.8 million. You can talk about how we had a team out there that should have won but that ignores the fact that our defence cost the amount of what you'd expect from a relegation threatened team. We were missing 30.3 million pounds worth of defenders on Saturday. That's a huge, huge loss.

[Il Nina]

I think one very important point that was missed in our defeat to Fulham was the cost of our defence. We had a huge injury crisis, sure. But our defence was especially harmed by that. Our defence on Saturday cost 2.8 million. You can talk about how we had a team out there that should have won but that ignores the fact that our defence cost the amount of what you'd expect from a relegation threatened team. We were missing 30.3 million pounds worth of defenders on Saturday. That's a huge, huge loss.

good point mate!

[benny]

You misunderstood me mate. The important point I thought you made was that Ferguson doesn't give a shit what the press say about his choices, regardless. You might have meant something else, fair enough.
I also said 'if' Benitez is influenced by the press, I don't necessarily believe he is.
My point which got us started down this road was that Torres shouldn't be played when he's not fully fit.
I don't buy into this 'play your best team every game' bollocks, and I've never accused Benitez of the shit you hear on Sky Sports.
But, for one reason or another, Torres has often started when he's not fit, and although it has paid off (against us a week ago is a perfect example) it will damage him in the long term.
He plays alone up front, does a lot of chasing and is the focal point of your attack. He takes a lot of kicks and often has two defenders on him. I'd be interested to see his injury record at Atleti compared to his one at Liverpool.

the thing is benitez hasn't got the option ,we had Keane last season as soon as the 2 yanks realised they had paid 20 mil for a player who wasnt gonna start plus what ever wages he was on,they shipped him out an pocketed the money.
which is the reason why we were left with a 20 year old1.5 million signing as back up,while you can call on a bench of 50 million plus

[shanklyboy]

You misunderstood me mate. The important point I thought you made was that Ferguson doesn't give a shit what the press say about his choices, regardless. You might have meant something else, fair enough.
I also said 'if' Benitez is influenced by the press, I don't necessarily believe he is.
My point which got us started down this road was that Torres shouldn't be played when he's not fully fit.
I don't buy into this 'play your best team every game' bollocks, and I've never accused Benitez of the shit you hear on Sky Sports.
But, for one reason or another, Torres has often started when he's not fit, and although it has paid off (against us a week ago is a perfect example) it will damage him in the long term.
He plays alone up front, does a lot of chasing and is the focal point of your attack. He takes a lot of kicks and often has two defenders on him. I'd be interested to see his injury record at Atleti compared to his one at Liverpool.

My whole point is simple.
Benitez has an in depth analysis of his team selection,his sustitution policy,his tactics, players ability, how much they cost, his priorities and the colour of his bills......BEFORE the majority of games.

Ferguson can make 7 changes and nothing is said.

[benny]

My whole point is simple.
Benitez has an in depth analysis of his team selection,his sustitution policy,his tactics, players ability, how much they cost, his priorities and the colour of his bills......BEFORE the majority of games.

Ferguson can make 7 changes and nothing is said.

Which is why you don't hear of squad rotation any more,when Rafa done it,it was nearly front page news"99 games ",now taggert does it ,its accepted. Can't wait for the red nosed twat to start zonal marking so we can put that to bed