Topic: Torres - The Reasons for Leaving - by Sid Lowe

[Red_Rich]

So, Torres has been thrashing this one out with his PR officer over the last few days then?  Do one, lad!  If we weren't playing you today, you wouldn't give a fuck.

You just don't get it do you Torres?  It isn't that you left - we understand that you lived through amny broken promises but it's where you chose to go and the timing of it that is the problem.  Had you gone abroad in the summer, no-one would have had a bad word against you.  You could have strolled back into Anfield to watch matches with Xabi any time you liked.

Wise-up and realise, YOU WENT TO A BITTER RIVAL you klondike! .... a rival 2nd only to Man United and in some ways despised even more for some of their ways (at least United have some class).  You call Chelsea a "great club".  Fuck off to that too! Great clubs have won more than 4 titles.  Great clubs have won European Cups.

Let's see how 'great' Chelsea are when the new rules come in about only spending within your means.  Somehow can't see Chelsea being able to spend the millions required to replace 5 or 6 aging players, on your shirt sales alone.

Time will tell, you made a big mistake.

[Timbo's Goals]

In a league table of those deserving vitriol for their shocking behaviour at LFC over the last 12 months, Torres doesn't even make the European places.

Handled his move pretty badly, but I've positive memories on the whole and we've doubled our money which we can spend for once (or seem to be able to).

I presume the 'Exile' tage means you've only had to suffer his performances on the telly.

Not being patronising but if that is the case then it helps explain why you perhaps are not feeling quite so angry about his performance levels as the camera tends to follow the action and as Torres managed to avoid most of the action so succesfully and generally wasn't arsed to make many meaningful runs off the ball or chase down defenders you would most likely not have seen just how fuckin dire most of his performances have been.

[Eeyore]

I do take your point re the World Cup performances. They are consistent with the poverty of his performances in a red shirt. Only he will know the real truth on what happened there.

However, as for his closing time in a red shirt, I suspect kenny knows as well as anyone how much the lad could or couldn't or did or didn't turn it on as a consequence of injury recuperation or any other mitigating factor and how much was simply attitude and underlying intention.

I think kenny's latest priceless comment along the lines of - Torres will get the kind of reception he deserves but I'm not going to tell the fans what to do - provides us with all the insight we need as to whether he thinks Torres conned us or not. It can, of course, be taken the other way but I suspect if kenny felt any different to the way the likes of myself is feeling he'd have not wasted a second in being cryptic but would have come out very firmly in Torres's corner.

But he didn't.

To be fair to Torres his record over the last 18 months has been excellent.

Twenty Seven Goals in his last forty one League starts, with no penalties and no free kicks. That is up there with anyone in the League.

A quick look at the the points we have taken in the League this season.

WBA..........................Scored the only Goal in a 1-0 Win
Sunderland................Two Assists in a 2-2 Draw
Blackburn...................Winner in a 2-1 Win
Bolton.........................Assist in a 1-0 Win
Chelsea......................Both Goals in a 2-0 win
Wigan.........................Scored opening goal in a 1-1 draw.
Bolton.........................Scored opening goal in a 2-1 win
Wolves........................Two goals in a 3-0 win

So that's a hand in 20 of the 32 points we had taken in the League this season up until his departure.

His body language might of been shite but I think it is very harsh to complain about Torres's contribution over the last 18 months, if the rest of the team had performed to that standard we would of been in a much healthier position.

The biggest comfort I can take is that Torres has signed a five and a half year deal at Chelsea and he could end up as a financial millstone around Chelsea's neck with the introduction of UEFA's fair play rules coming in.

[bigbear]

To be fair to Torres his record over the last 18 months has been excellent.

Twenty Seven Goals in his last forty one League starts, with no penalties and no free kicks. That is up there with anyone in the League.

A quick look at the the points we have taken in the League this season.

WBA..........................Scored the only Goal in a 1-0 Win
Sunderland................Two Assists in a 2-2 Draw
Blackburn...................Winner in a 2-1 Win
Bolton.........................Assist in a 1-0 Win
Chelsea......................Both Goals in a 2-0 win
Wigan.........................Scored opening goal in a 1-1 draw.
Bolton.........................Scored opening goal in a 2-1 win
Wolves........................Two goals in a 3-0 win

So that's a hand in 20 of the 32 points we had taken in the League this season up until his departure.

His body language might of been shite but I think it is very harsh to complain about Torres's contribution over the last 18 months, if the rest of the team had performed to that standard we would of been in a much healthier position.

The biggest comfort I can take is that Torres has signed a five and a half year deal at Chelsea and he could end up as a financial millstone around Chelsea's neck with the introduction of UEFA's fair play rules coming in.

I think last season there can be no criticism, he was injured off and on all year and his goal stats stood up to any scrutiny.

This season has been a bit different. He has been the main reason for us winning games when we did but as our best attacking player you'd expect that. However, the sulking, the moaning, the lack of running didn't do him a great deal of credit and he basically threw his hand in around November.

[Timbo's Goals]

To be fair to Torres his record over the last 18 months has been excellent.

Twenty Seven Goals in his last forty one League starts, with no penalties and no free kicks. That is up there with anyone in the League.

A quick look at the the points we have taken in the League this season.

WBA..........................Scored the only Goal in a 1-0 Win
Sunderland................Two Assists in a 2-2 Draw
Blackburn...................Winner in a 2-1 Win
Bolton.........................Assist in a 1-0 Win
Chelsea......................Both Goals in a 2-0 win
Wigan.........................Scored opening goal in a 1-1 draw.
Bolton.........................Scored opening goal in a 2-1 win
Wolves........................Two goals in a 3-0 win

So that's a hand in 20 of the 32 points we had taken in the League this season up until his departure.

His body language might of been shite but I think it is very harsh to complain about Torres's contribution over the last 18 months, if the rest of the team had performed to that standard we would of been in a much healthier position.

The biggest comfort I can take is that Torres has signed a five and a half year deal at Chelsea and he could end up as a financial millstone around Chelsea's neck with the introduction of UEFA's fair play rules coming in.

Might be worth digging out those statistics relating to his meaningful runs per game for this last season compared to his peak seasons. I read them on another site and the drop was alarming. Could have been as much as 55 per game down to 23 per game. Might give a truer representation of exactly what it is so many of us have been getting so worked up about within this thread. If they're as bad as i seem to recall then it really does make you wonder just how many more goals he'd have scored if he'd have put in the effort for his team, his teammates and his supporters.

Guess we'll never know huh.

[Not funny reecehenebry]

Might be worth digging out those statistics relating to his meaningful runs per game for this last season compared to his peak seasons. I read them on another site and the drop was alarming. Could have been as much as 55 per game down to 23 per game. Might give a truer representation of exactly what it is so many of us have been getting so worked up about within this thread. If they're as bad as i seem to recall then it really does make you wonder just how many more goals he'd have scored if he'd have put in the effort for his team, his teammates and his supporters.

Guess we'll never know huh.

If you do that you would also have to look at the possession stats against last year and the position for the pass to Torres, the distant and type of pass. Unless you are forgetting the way Roy had us playing.

[Fordy]

He was fantastic in Euro 2008 but hasn't been fully fit since then really. In 08/09 he only played in 24 of 38 League games and last season only played in 22 of 38 League games.

The irony is that he has played in 23 of our 25 League games this season and one of the games he missed for the birth of his child. It's just a pity he was completely miss-managed by Hodgson for the vast majority of that time.

His head was gone when Rafa was here. Has nothing to do with Hodgson.

Hodgson even rested him in a competition that Torres feels he is bigger than. Hodgson managed him well its just that Torres head had gone.

[Eeyore]

I think last season there can be no criticism, he was injured off and on all year and his goal stats stood up to any scrutiny.

This season has been a bit different. He has been the main reason for us winning games when we did but as our best attacking player you'd expect that. However, the sulking, the moaning, the lack of running didn't do him a great deal of credit and he basically threw his hand in around November.

The really interesting bit from the Fanning piece was where Torres said he didn't understand Hodgson and Hodgson didn't understand the team. A lot of what Torres was criticised for was what Hodgson was actually asking him to do.

Hodgson's centre forward isn't meant to work hard closing down the opposition and running the channels, his role is to stand in between the opposition's two centre backs and look to be a focal point of the attack when Hodgson's two centre backs or keeper finally win the ball back.

Zamora was lauded for his performances for Fulham in 09/10 but could of spent 90% of the games in a deck chair waiting for the very small periods when Fulham actually won the ball back and looked to counter. Hodgson's teams play with two forwards who play as a pair and are rarely more than ten to fifteen yards apart that precludes chasing people down and working back.

[Gnurglan]

Interesting read, that Fanning article.

I don't think Torres conned us for years. I believe he made a big mistake to leave now. The way he left was bad for everyone. None of the parties deserved it to end this way.
But when we are willing to question his performances, which is fair, that should hold for pretty much every player in our squad. Who has performed? Torres is not the one reason we were on a horror tour in the relegation zone. Where were our other big players? Those that now escape the critisism Torres gets. That tour suggests that we have (had) more problems than Torres wanting out.

[Mrfabulous]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zjz16xjeBAA  just for the first 10 seconds.

[Sangria]

He was fantastic in Euro 2008 but hasn't been fully fit since then really. In 08/09 he only played in 24 of 38 League games and last season only played in 22 of 38 League games.

I don't remember him being that good in Euro 2008, other than the final, where Villa didn't play. The Spanish team is geared for a different game to the one Torres plays, and it usually looks it, even when Torres was at his peak. Other than when he's playing alone up front, Torres in a Spanish shirt usually looks like a manager's pet who's been forced into a team that plays its own game.

[Eeyore]

His head was gone when Rafa was here. Has nothing to do with Hodgson.

Hodgson even rested him in a competition that Torres feels he is bigger than. Hodgson managed him well its just that Torres head had gone.

In Benitez's last season Torres scored 18 League Goals in 20 starts, that is absolutely phenomenal, his big problem was he was never 100% fit. When you look at the transformation in the number of games he has played this season since Brukner came in and to me it's pretty clear that the medical team under Waller was frankly abysmal.

It is no coincidence that Liverpool had very few injuries until Souness brought in Waller a none specialist GP who had spent most of his medical career working the A&E at Alder Hey, have a look at which team in the Premier League has had the most injuries this season and you will find a certain Doc Waller there.

[John C]

Rember reading that John. And I'd noticed the same thing. It was one of a score of similar passages in his final period with us.

In the same thread later that night Mac_Red was defending him and telling people to stop moaning so I said fair enough, I'll give him a break, he can still be a hero. Little did I know what was in his head.

[Eeyore]

I don't remember him being that good in Euro 2008, other than the final, where Villa didn't play. The Spanish team is geared for a different game to the one Torres plays, and it usually looks it, even when Torres was at his peak. Other than when he's playing alone up front, Torres in a Spanish shirt usually looks like a manager's pet who's been forced into a team that plays its own game.

I thought Torres's pace added an extra dimension to Spain's team in that tournament, the amount of space he created for Villa in particular was ridiculous. He was pretty special in the final as well hitting the post with a header and scoring the winning goal.

I agree about the difference in style though his lack of touch especially with his back to goal sticks out like a sore thumb when he plays for Spain and brings up huge questions about his future at Chelsea. Unless they change their style of play Torres isn't going to get the freedom to exploit his ability to get one on one and destroy defenders.

I look forward to the Torres, Drogba and Anelka sulking competition hopefully starting today.

[Not funny reecehenebry]

I don't remember him being that good in Euro 2008, other than the final, where Villa didn't play. The Spanish team is geared for a different game to the one Torres plays, and it usually looks it, even when Torres was at his peak. Other than when he's playing alone up front, Torres in a Spanish shirt usually looks like a manager's pet who's been forced into a team that plays its own game.

Not really true though. Villa credited Torres with the space that allowed him to become top score in both comps. He is asked as the center forward with Spain to move the center backs around, pulling them from their comfort zones. He doesn't look great doing it, but it's vital to the way Spain play. I have seen Messi and Villa both do it for Barca and they never look at threatening. However the defenders are a six's and seven's. Messi is very good at it, dropping at the right time to leave gaps between the CB and Fullback for Villa and Pedro to exploit.

[Not funny reecehenebry]

I thought Torres's pace added an extra dimension to Spain's team in that tournament, the amount of space he created for Villa in particular was ridiculous. He was pretty special in the final as well hitting the post with a header and scoring the winning goal.

I agree about the difference in style though his lack of touch especially with his back to goal sticks out like a sore thumb when he plays for Spain and brings up huge questions about his future at Chelsea. Unless they change their style of play Torres isn't going to get the freedom to exploit his ability to get one on one and destroy defenders.

I look forward to the Torres, Drogba and Anelka sulking competition hopefully starting today.

Ancolotti will use him similar to Shev. They will pay the angled ball from the full back with the midfielder piling into the box. Torres was bought to be the extra bit in the Cl.

[Six Beardy]

So, Torres has been thrashing this one out with his PR officer over the last few days then?  Do one, lad!  If we weren't playing you today, you wouldn't give a fuck.

All that matters to him and his PR people is that the Torres brand has been tarnished, hence the constant drip drip of excuses and 'explanations' in a desperate attempt at damage limitation. It's no surprise that there's plenty of hacks willing to help him out with this, very sad that a few Liverpool fans seem happy to go along with it too.

Torres has shat on the fans, he's shat on Kenny and he's shat on his team-mates. So much for the holy trinity. Shanks will be turning in his grave at what the modern game has become and some of the selfish turds that have pulled on the red jersey in recent years He'd also be horrified that some of our fanbase have so little understanding of what LFC is about that they not only understand Torres but are actually bending over backwards to defend the shitehawk. Really, it beggars belief.

[Timbo's Goals]

All that matters to him and his PR people is that the Torres brand has been tarnished, hence the constant drip drip of excuses and 'explanations' in a desperate attempt at damage limitation. It's no surprise that there's plenty of hacks willing to help him out with this, very sad that a few Liverpool fans seem happy to go along with it too.

Torres has shat on the fans, he's shat on Kenny and he's shat on his team-mates. So much for the holy trinity. Shanks will be turning in his grave at what the modern game has become and some of the selfish turds that have pulled on the red jersey in recent years He'd also be horrified that some of our fanbase have so little understanding of what LFC is about that they not only understand Torres but are actually bending over backwards to defend the shitehawk. Really, it beggars belief.

I come from exactly your neck of the woods mate. The PR offensive is relentless and will stand in time as merely the testament to player who when the going got tough, got going. Though not in the manner intended by the Billy Idol song lyrics.

PS Just for you Not Funny Reece, I'll try conveying the precise meaning though it wouldn't have fitted the fantastically witty  pun I used of Billy atalntic's song title. What I really really really really mean was when the going began to become unsuited to Torres's high footballing expectations he began to entertain if not actively pursue even in cahoots with with his background entourage the very real notion of quitting Liverpool Football Club for pastures anew rather than sticking with the club and its long suffering fans who loved the bones of the lad - although as it happens he never actually left until the January 2011 transfer window which ironically enough coincided with an upswing in Liverpool's fortunes under kenny dalglish though clearly not sufficient of an upswing to alter the course of the Torres clearly well embedded decision to quit. That OK?

[The Real Rasta]

To be fair to Torres his record over the last 18 months has been excellent.

Twenty Seven Goals in his last forty one League starts, with no penalties and no free kicks. That is up there with anyone in the League.

A quick look at the the points we have taken in the League this season.

WBA..........................Scored the only Goal in a 1-0 Win
Sunderland................Two Assists in a 2-2 Draw
Blackburn...................Winner in a 2-1 Win
Bolton.........................Assist in a 1-0 Win
Chelsea......................Both Goals in a 2-0 win
Wigan.........................Scored opening goal in a 1-1 draw.
Bolton.........................Scored opening goal in a 2-1 win
Wolves........................Two goals in a 3-0 win

So that's a hand in 20 of the 32 points we had taken in the League this season up until his departure.

His body language might of been shite but I think it is very harsh to complain about Torres's contribution over the last 18 months, if the rest of the team had performed to that standard we would of been in a much healthier position.

The biggest comfort I can take is that Torres has signed a five and a half year deal at Chelsea and he could end up as a financial millstone around Chelsea's neck with the introduction of UEFA's fair play rules coming in.

Excellent post.

[Not funny reecehenebry]

I come from exactly your neck of the woods mate. The PR offensive is relentless and will stand in time as merely the testament to player who when the going got tough, got going. Though not in the manner intended by the Billy Idol song lyrics.

Works both ways. The Lfc media bandwagon was out the moment they decided to tell the world about the bid. Funny how Torres struck around when things were tough, only to leave once light was seen. It's almost like once daylight was hit he decided it was okay to leave. You are so bloody wrong when you stated he left when things got tough. Plain out and out wrong. And if you are basing your dislike around that i think you might need to have another look at it.

[bigbear]

The really interesting bit from the Fanning piece was where Torres said he didn't understand Hodgson and Hodgson didn't understand the team. A lot of what Torres was criticised for was what Hodgson was actually asking him to do.

Hodgson's centre forward isn't meant to work hard closing down the opposition and running the channels, his role is to stand in between the opposition's two centre backs and look to be a focal point of the attack when Hodgson's two centre backs or keeper finally win the ball back.

Zamora was lauded for his performances for Fulham in 09/10 but could of spent 90% of the games in a deck chair waiting for the very small periods when Fulham actually won the ball back and looked to counter. Hodgson's teams play with two forwards who play as a pair and are rarely more than ten to fifteen yards apart that precludes chasing people down and working back.

I think there is a bit perhaps even a lot of truth in that, but then that situation compounded Torres' belief that the team wasn't good enough and so his heart and performance level dipped and the team went even worse because its best player went missing.

It became a bit of a vicious circle. The team/manager was struggling, Torres head went down and so the team/manager struggled worse and Torres views on how poor we were and the future winning prospects were re-affirmed.

Had he been at his best we would be fairly close to 4th but the decisions taken last summer certainly impacted upon his future at the club.

[bigbear]

I come from exactly your neck of the woods mate. The PR offensive is relentless and will stand in time as merely the testament to player who when the going got tough, got going. Though not in the manner intended by the Billy Idol song lyrics.

Wasn't it it Billy Ocean ?

[Liver Bird]

The PR offensive really is noticeable, brand Torres has got to protect himself after all, but seeing him speak in person just leaves me cold. I built up an image of him in my mind that never matched the reality.

[jaffod]

It's almost like once daylight was hit he decided it was okay to leave.

Stop it. Please, please stop it.

[Timbo's Goals]

Wasn't it it Billy Ocean ?

 

Oh my god - the shame of it. Well spotted Bigbear.


 

[Gnurglan]

The PR offensive really is noticeable, brand Torres has got to protect himself after all, but seeing him speak in person just leaves me cold. I built up an image of him in my mind that never matched the reality.

Works both ways though, doesn't it?

LFC need to protect the image of being able to attract the best players, so it fits with a story of betrayal when a big player leaves. A few months ago it was Mascherano, now it's Torres. It's time to put an end to it.

[jaffod]

Works both ways though, doesn't it?

LFC need to protect the image of being able to attract the best players, so it fits with a story of betrayal when a big player leaves. A few months ago it was Mascherano, now it's Torres. It's time to put an end to it.

Terrible isn't it? After all they were both desperate to stay.

[bigbear]

Oh my god - the shame of it. Well spotted Bigbear.


 

I'm more embarrassed that I knew it from my disco youth days...

[Jagged Princess]

I come from exactly your neck of the woods mate. The PR offensive is relentless and will stand in time as merely the testament to player who when the going got tough, got going. Though not in the manner intended by the Billy Idol song lyrics.

That he needs all this PR is telling. 

At the end of the day, he’s been selfish in his choices and only seen so far as the end of this season.  Chelsea have announced operating losses, add to that the £71M in his and Luiz’s transfers then  Chelsea will soon be struggling with their own debt once the new regulations come in and if the reported buy-out clause of £100M is correct he’s going to be one unhappy chappy.  The grass isn’t always greener, hopefully he finds that out, sooner rather than later.

[KingsRevolution]

well this is overdue, but ive finally been approved to post on RAWK 

my take is. Fernando Torres supports Liverpool, loves the fans, the city and the club. he always wanted to play for us and we gave him his break, he came into a team that had just lost the champions league final, there second final in 3 seasons, we came 2nd in his 2nd season and things were go fantastic for him, then obviously we come 7th and then, in my opinion this is when it goes downhill for him. In the summer he plays for Spain, the European and world champions, with players that are playing for the biggest clubs in the world, mainly Barcelona and enjoying there football, back at home the manager he was brought by, the one who turned him into the best striker in the world, Rafa Benitez left, taking with him endless numbers of backroom staff. Torres's Spanish colleagues, Torres’s Spanish friends!

Purslow promises Torres new owners, and new players. he gets NSV, but on the pitch, under the guidance of Hodgson we are turned into the rich version of stoke City, whilst the players he played with at the world cup, are scoring 5 goals each game and winning and competing in the top competitions, that’s what he wants! what annoys me though, he decided to come out and say he wants to leave, the day we sign a 23mil player in Suarez!!! He says he wants to go to Chelsea. Chelsea fans that will never treat him as well as we do, will never chant an anthem based on him, a club that will NEVER love him as much as we do. Chelsea will never be as big as us..... and to be honest with all there players at the age of 30+ and with, Tottenham, Man City, and now hopefully us spending big, Chelsea might miss out on champs league football soon and then he’s back to square one!

For me, Torres left to go to Chelsea, I will never forgive him, but in a couple of years time, we will have the final laugh when we conquer Europe again.

[Timbo's Goals]

Works both ways. The Lfc media bandwagon was out the moment they decided to tell the world about the bid. Funny how Torres struck around when things were tough, only to leave once light was seen. It's almost like once daylight was hit he decided it was okay to leave. You are so bloody wrong when you stated he left when things got tough. Plain out and out wrong. And if you are basing your dislike around that i think you might need to have another look at it.

If you care to look back to the original post I've tried to convey my precise meaning just for you Not Funny Reece. We can't have pedantry confusing the issue can we

 

[Eeyore]

Ancolotti will use him similar to Shev. They will pay the angled ball from the full back with the midfielder piling into the box. Torres was bought to be the extra bit in the Cl.

That's the conundrum though Torres has always looked better in the hurly burly of the Premiership than he has in the Champions League. For me Torres's greatest asset has always been his ability to exploit the tactical indiscipline that is rife in the Premiership.

In the Champions League teams very rarely lose their shape and it is much more of a tactical battle, with teams relying on touch and intelligent movement instead of pace and power. Drogba is absolutely fundamental to the way Chelsea play, with Lampard in particular continually gambling on Drogba's ability to hold the ball up.

Torres simply cannot play that game as was shown by Hodgson's ill fated tenure, I think he will end up in one of the wide positions probably on the left and will be asked to link with Ashley Cole the way Henry used to at Arsenal.

The irony is that one of the main reasons Torres left Atletico was because he was asked to play in that role in his last season there and absolutely hated it. If Chelsea wanted someone to play that role then I think they would of been better signing Aguero or even Luis Suarez. To me it smacks of Abramovich playing football manager again like he did when he brought in Shevchenko and Ballack.

At least with Ancelotti Chelsea have a far more tactically flexible coach this time and a coach used to the owner running the show from his time at Milan.

[Timbo's Goals]

I'm more embarrassed that I knew it from my disco youth days...

 

[Ycuzz]

Sick and tired of seeing this on the 'front page', any chance it could be moved to general footy?

[Timbo's Goals]

Sick and tired of seeing this on the 'front page', any chance it could be moved to general footy?

You want to try posting a series of replies in the fuckin thing. Now that really does make you sick and feckin tired.

[Timbo's Goals]

That's the conundrum though Torres has always looked better in the hurly burly of the Premiership than he has in the Champions League.

I will always hold Torres's performance against Real madrid as his finest ever in a red shirt. he was unplayable for that opening 20 minutes. I really hope to hell he doesn't find it within himself to emulate that today. In broad terms i do take your point however.

[Gnurglan]

Terrible isn't it? After all they were both desperate to stay.

It's terrible we have lost two very good players and that it's bad blood between the parties. They may not have been desperate to stay, but I am more worried that they wanted to leave.

[Eeyore]

I will always hold Torres's performance against Real madrid as his finest ever in a red shirt. he was unplayable for that opening 20 minutes. I really hope to hell he doesn't find it within himself to emulate that today. In broad terms i do take your point however.

I think the way the Madrid players kicked the shit out of him and the treatment he got after coming off at the hour mark in the first leg in the Bernabeu helped contribute to that.

You were right though he was unbelievable that night, that game and the continual destruction of Vidic will live long in the memory, crying shame he is a plastic flag waving rent boy now.

[redoneusa]

Lie no.1 "He always fulfills his contract!" ~ again better off without him. Just consider it good business, we made a decent amount of money out of the deal. And got two very decent young lads you can play a fair bit.

More important want to be a this club. Hard to put a price on that.

[horne]

Wasn't it it Billy Ocean ?

just got a tweet off el ninny....he reckons it was the village people