Topic: Round Table Manchester City 3-0 Liverpool

[GrkStav]

Yeah, I remember his own long thread mate One of the basic rules of football is you don't try to "dribble" a few yards outside of your own box. And Dirk of all people, who should only dribble at tea time, must adhere to the 'easy ball' principle.

Is it also not a rule of football, so to speak, that one should be aware of one's surroundings and be ready to adjust to changes on the pitch? What did Hendo do upon recognizing that Milner had poked the ball away from Kuyt?

Imagine Lucas instead of Hendo in the exact same situation? Different result perhaps? Little quick toe-poke to Johnson and none's the wiser, perhaps?

[RedinExile]

Johnson would be great. He offers everything Downing should...

And here again the reason for the lack of quality in our attacking play becomes obvious. City can afford to pay wages which keeps a talent like Johnson accept the bench. Johnson would be a regular in our first eleven, no doubt.

I like your posts steve, because I often think along similar lines lol, typical eh. But here, although I think Johnson is a great player, I wonder how he would be able to get Andy to move near post and jump with vigour?

It's a bit tongue in cheek, and to put it in perspective I put a few quid on Andy to score a hat-trick at Blackburn But he has to do more imo, and downing shouldn't be the scapegoat - maybe he sees no obvious ball in half the time??

[Endoe]

Unfortunately for Carrol, he's 2 inches or so on average taller than the Centrebacks he plays on, which in someones at Liverpools mind is the equivalent of 2 feet, because, it's attrocious the way he is used, going on what he did at Newcastle.


 If theres a cross into the box, you can identify if it is or isn't intended for Carrol, if it is it's floated in around 3-4 ft higher than it would/should be,it's for Andy. Because it seems, we've got it in our head that he's some sort of circus tall man, a man on stiltz, who, aslong as the cross is high and sent in with no pace, it's Carrols to put away. A cross, whether from deep ala Baton at Newcastle to Carrol see Charlie Adam (it's his position, not picking him out for poor crossing) or Downing, the cross should be made for Suarez or Maxi, with pace into a dangerous position and then and only then can Carrol use the oh so exaggerated height advantage he has to any use.

A  good forward strength, is the uncanny ability to read the flightpath/ path of the ball a little bit earlier than the rest, it's a major element of why a player is chosen to or not play forward rather than back..

 As is sometimes said, the first two yards is in the head, ala Robbie Fowler, who wouldn't have won a gold medal at the olympics, but was able to get to the right position before even a quicker defender. Carroll is being misused and crucified through 1. his ridiculous pricetag  2. poor fucking service. 3. NOT playing to his aerial ability, by floating in: a/ all crosses intended for him. I seriously believe, we're misunderstanding, how to get the best use of his aerial ability. He's not THAT much taller than his opponent. Theres a great striker in that big, reasonably quick frame who hasn't been given the oppurtunity to show why he has been earmarked as a forward, from early on. It's hurting, him and more importantly us. It need addressing, because it's not and never will work fthe way it's going.

[shadowraith]

Very disappointed in this loss. We dominated the midfield areas but again lack that real edge and penetration to get the job done. We really need to sort this out now. 

[abs-ibs]

I really felt sorry for Carroll in this match. The supply he got was terrible, almost all of the crosses didn't even get to him, majority because they weren't good enough, they minority of them were because of Kompany being a beast of a defender. But even when he did get the service, because there wasn't anyone in there with him he was surrounded by 2-3 defenders each time. That type of player going in for high balls that often will only be able to beat 1-2 defenders, to ask him to beat 2-3 each time is woeful. He needs a partner not just to knock it down to, but also to pull some of the defence away from him so he can get a half chance himself.

Our midfield has become static recently. The pass and move just wasn't there the other night. Until we get that back, we will have the cutting thrust of a slowly deflating beachball. Spearing has been the best of our starting midfielders in the past two matches. I think we need to give Henderson a rest and try Adam with Gerrard soon. You never know what  or when something will click.

We also tried to force alot the other night in the second half rather than play football and enjoy ourselves. Sometimes intensity is a good thing, but sometimes it can be a bit detrimental to our play, we need that enjoyment and relaxation back that we had last year after Kenny took over. It doesn't help when the footballing media in this country are trying to tear this club a new one every 5 seconds, becoz it adds alot of pressure on the staff and players.

I could tell within the first 5 minutes that this match was going to be a cagey affair. Both teams were worried about the attacking prowess of the others, because although we've been lacking goals, we could well have battered them at Anfield. So neither team was really wanting to go out and fully attack. Downing didn't get to score with his chance, and then they got there luck with the first goal. And when they got their second, well it was always gonna be an uphill struggle after that, even though we did control the match. But they were lucky in one way and clinical when they needed to be.

Oh well live and learn, eh?

[GrkStav]

I have not finished watching the game again, but after reviewing the first half I can say with some sense of certainty that Carroll was not, in the least, starved of good service in the first half, especially between City's first and second goal. In addition, he was not, generally, isolated in the area.

[gavleopardi]

As much as I want to be in sympathy with Carroll the rational, thinking side of my brain won't have it. Having seen him at close quarters in the flesh last Saturday rather affectionately buying his girlfriend and Mother (or in-law) exorbitantly priced clothes at an unnamed fashion outlet, I was thunderstruck by how gaunt, if not malnutritioned he looked. I'm a big bloke and was doubly-shocked at the fact he didn't look imposing at all (i know the tv is supposed to supplement a few pounds!). Perhaps that has been the trade off in getting his weight down to try and get a quicker, lither specimen out there on the pitch, quick enough to get the ball down, spin and get a shot off (or so you would think!) But having watched him now at both Newcastle and with us, I despair at the obdurate, bald reality looking back at me when I watch him play: he doesn't possess the close quarter skill needed to make chances for himself, has neither a yard of pace to get beyond a central defender and (now) doesn't look the formidable, intimidating man mountain that scared the bejeezus out of centre backs last year. Again I want to think he will come good but the nagging realistic voice in me keeps whispering "Biggest waste of money in the club's history..." 

[steveeastend]

I like your posts steve, because I often think along similar lines lol, typical eh. But here, although I think Johnson is a great player, I wonder how he would be able to get Andy to move near post and jump with vigour?

It's a bit tongue in cheek, and to put it in perspective I put a few quid on Andy to score a hat-trick at Blackburn But he has to do more imo, and downing shouldn't be the scapegoat - maybe he sees no obvious ball in half the time??

I dunno, really. Johnson is pure quality, him and Suarez, together with our Johnson and someone like Podolski on the left... they would scare the hell out of any defense.. And Andy didnīt play too often recentely anyway.

To me itīs all about getting better attacking players in our first eleven, I think itīs the only missing link here.

Andy didnīt show anything so far to me that would give a hint what everybody else was hoping for. His movement is probably the area he has to improve the most. Watching someone like Klose, who is that injured that he hardly can walk, is still able to do what you expect from a target man. Itīs about game intelligence, thatīs the most important thing here.

I donīt know how much influence Kenny had on our transfers in summer. Comolli and Kenny certainly agreed on which type of player they wanted to sign but we all know now that a couple of our signings were not our first choices. So maybe Comolli got Kenny the second or third choice of the type of player they were after, more of a rough choice then.

I think both underestimated here how important the talent of player in fact is in order to deliver what Kenny expects. Remember, Kenny was world class as a player. Those Ex-top-players often take things for granted, they often overestimate the abilities of players and do think more of their vision of football than those down-to-earth problems a player like Downing for example has to manage due to his lack of talent. Probably Kenny overestimates the ability of Comolli of judging a player for the requirments needed for playing Kennys style of football.

[GrkStav]

As much as I want to be in sympathy with Carroll the rational, thinking side of my brain won't have it. Having seen him at close quarters in the flesh last Saturday rather affectionately buying his girlfriend and Mother (or in-law) exorbitantly priced clothes at an unnamed fashion outlet, I was thunderstruck by how gaunt, if not malnutritioned he looked. I'm a big bloke and was doubly-shocked at the fact he didn't look imposing at all (i know the tv is supposed to supplement a few pounds!). Perhaps that has been the trade off in getting his weight down to try and get a quicker, lither specimen out there on the pitch, quick enough to get the ball down, spin and get a shot off (or so you would think!) But having watched him now at both Newcastle and with us, I despair at the obdurate, bald reality looking back at me when I watch him play: he doesn't possess the close quarter skill needed to make chances for himself, has neither a yard of pace to get beyond a central defender and (now) doesn't look the formidable, intimidating man mountain that scared the bejeezus out of centre backs last year. Again I want to think he will come good but the nagging realistic voice in me keeps whispering "Biggest waste of money in the club's history..."

Well, he certainly doesn't look 'fitter' for having lost a bit of weight and slimming down. In fact, as you say, you looks 'weak' and unsure of himself, especially his balance. You'd think that our sports science brain-trust are on it. I am sure they are. I wonder if Andy is much of a "gym rat" as they call 'em here in the U.S.  . . . whether he likes to hit the weight room to put on some additional muscle and gain strength, especially in his lower body. Having always been 'a big unit', he may never have developed the 'love' for working out/fitness.

I'll spare you any further speculation.

[Skrtels Head]

The obvious problem against City was that we simply lack any sort of quality, City had it in abundance.
I was worried when we let our quality players go and even more worried with what we replaced them with....... Torres for Carroll, Meireles for Adam, Aquilani for Henderson and even Babel for Downing. Now I know the players I've listed weren't direct swaps but I think if we had the ones we let go playing against City we would have had a much better chance of winning.
But Torres wanted to leave I hear you cry, well so did Modric at Spurs but they stood their ground, told him to shut up and get on with it and look how far ahead of us they are. Sure Torres would have sulked but a sulking Torres would have us higher in the table than Andy Carroll and so would the rest of the ones we shipped out IMO. Like I said earlier I was worried with the players we've brought in at the time and I'm even more worried now. They simply don't have the quality.

[Yorkykopite]

The obvious problem against City was that we simply lack any sort of quality

That's got to be one of the most amazing sentences I've read about Liverpool - even on RAWK. We lack "any" quality? You mean we've got none at all? And you think this is "obvious"?

[Skrtels Head]

That's got to be one of the most amazing sentences I've read about Liverpool - even on RAWK. We lack "any" quality? You mean we've got none at all? And you think this is "obvious"?

Sorry it should have read 'we lacked' any sort of quality against City, in an attacking sense I think we did yes.

[sonnyred]

I thought Spearing had a good game but the rest of the midfield were lacking, especially Adam who seems to have gone off the boil the last few matches. I think he needs a rest. I thought apart from Spearing the whole team was sloppy the other night. My MoM would probably be Bellamy, which says something as he was a sub. Overall though I still feel our defence is one of the best in the league, we have some good midfielders but we still need to find the right mix, possibly dropping Gerrard back into CM and playing him with Spearing or Henderson. I do still think we need another striker- a six-yard goalscorer to play with Suarez or Carrol to push to the next level.

[Rormac]

As much as I want to be in sympathy with Carroll the rational, thinking side of my brain won't have it. Having seen him at close quarters in the flesh last Saturday rather affectionately buying his girlfriend and Mother (or in-law) exorbitantly priced clothes at an unnamed fashion outlet, I was thunderstruck by how gaunt, if not malnutritioned he looked. I'm a big bloke and was doubly-shocked at the fact he didn't look imposing at all (i know the tv is supposed to supplement a few pounds!). Perhaps that has been the trade off in getting his weight down to try and get a quicker, lither specimen out there on the pitch, quick enough to get the ball down, spin and get a shot off (or so you would think!) But having watched him now at both Newcastle and with us, I despair at the obdurate, bald reality looking back at me when I watch him play: he doesn't possess the close quarter skill needed to make chances for himself, has neither a yard of pace to get beyond a central defender and (now) doesn't look the formidable, intimidating man mountain that scared the bejeezus out of centre backs last year. Again I want to think he will come good but the nagging realistic voice in me keeps whispering "Biggest waste of money in the club's history..."

I too sympathise and hope that any game now it will happen for him.  But, I, also, despair that the reality is that some of the ball skills which should really be there already just don't seem to be there such as close control and also I am concerned by his lack of speed/ cunning at close quarters.  He doesn't seem to be able to deceive the opposition enough.  He comes across as a lpredictable and therefore preventable.  I seem to be watching the opposition forwards a lot these days, I suppose for answers.  He seems to end up on the floor a lot.

To be fair, he gets the ball and lays it off well but that doesn't get goals.

It seemed to me that we could have banged in crosses for hours and he wouldn't have got onto any of them.

And I don't want to think about that look Kompany gave him.

[Redeo]

Sure. Like I said I think he makes this mistake a lot of the time (it's why I don't like to see him in the team when we are playing a good side because he often loses the ball in his own half. Against Blackburn it doesn't matter). Usually we get away with it because there's cover. This time we didn't. But, yes you're right. The catastrophic mistake was Pepe's not Kuyt's.

Got to love what David Silva did with the ball when he got it thougho. Blink and you miss his pass to Aguero. Only Lucas in our team has the knowledge to play such a killer pass.

I just checked their goal again for that Silva pass. Great stuff! Its a pain to remember Rafa wanted to get Silva 2 years (or so?) before he was sold to City. I also think that apart from Lucas, Henderson has a sense for making such passes. His pass to Stevie that led to our third goal v. Newcastle springs to mind.