Topic: Youth and Under 23 Thread

[ouestlereferee]

Nice start.

as he intends to continue, no doubt.

[Sarge]

as he intends to continue, no doubt.

What you make of him?

[ouestlereferee]

What you make of him?

have seen hardly anythng of him, to be honest - as he normally just comes on for 20 mins a la babel for the ressies....

there may be more info in here:
http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=197450.0

[Sarge]

have seen hardly anythng of him, to be honest - as he normally just comes on for 20 mins a la babel for the ressies....

there may be more info in here:
http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=197450.0

Sound.

[Sarge]

Reserve Team:                         Martin
                        Derby------Huth-----San Jose-----Insua
               El Zhar/Flynn-----Plessis-----Spearing-----Leto/Putterill
                     then 2 of(Brouwer/Nemeth/Pacheco)

Are any of the first team squad used in the reserves? Example, Lucas, Aurelio, Skrtel and so.

[Crazyhorse7778]

Are any of the first team squad used in the reserves? Example, Lucas, Aurelio, Skrtel and so.

Lucas was for a few weeks, but not anymore, so no.

[Sarge]

Lucas was for a few weeks, but not anymore, so no.

Good then so these lads will get plenty of game time.

[ouestlereferee]

Are any of the first team squad used in the reserves? Example, Lucas, Aurelio, Skrtel and so.

Kewell everytime he comes back from injury...

[ouestlereferee]

Good then so these lads will get plenty of game time.

yes they already have a lot of competition for places anyway....  with pacheco & bruna developing and needing more and more gametime hopefully this will come from brouwer and not nemeth....

[Sarge]

yes they already have a lot of competition for places anyway....  with pacheco & bruna developing and needing more and more gametime hopefully this will come from brouwer and not nemeth....

Why?

[ouestlereferee]

Why?

because brouwer is a poor player.  i hate to write off the chances of youngsters but brouwer looks poor even at ressie level - and there's been no sign of him improving.  add to this that he'll be 20 in 2 weeks and the signs aren't promising at all and his workrate is worse than kewell.  i don't think he'll even become worth anything for us to sell him off...   so the main thing is that he does not interfere with the progress of bruna, pacheco, ecclestone, and nemeth...

[Sarge]

because brouwer is a poor player.  i hate to write off the chances of youngsters but brouwer looks poor even at ressie level - and there's been no sign of him improving.  add to this that he'll be 20 in 2 weeks and the signs aren't promising at all and his workrate is worse than kewell.  i don't think he'll even become worth anything for us to sell him off...   so the main thing is that he does not interfere with the progress of bruna, pacheco, ecclestone, and nemeth...

Ahh right get you.

[ouestlereferee]

Ahh right get you.

with any bit of luck he'll have a fellow dutchman to share the removals truck with this summer...

[2barsup]

not in those highlights...  that's true.  but then considering he was creating shooting opportunities and that was what the highlights consisted of, you can hardly criticise him because the limited highlights showed pacheco's chances rather than brouwer's efforts...  if you watch his other appearances he creates loads of assists - it's a lot easier for him to operate in that way with nemeth - with brouwer he may as well be up front by himself....

Agree with this---Pacheco's biggest attribute is his ability to see what's going on around him, that's why he always finds time and space to make his skill and technique pay. He looks so much better with Nemeth than with Brouwer, pair him with someone of equal intelligence who can see his passes and make the runs i.e Torres and we have the makings of a very productive partnership. Having said that, however, I think it's still too early for him. Gary Ablett has been very careful with him, bringing him on slowly and only starting him in the last couple of games. Until were sure he's strong enough physically, it has to a risk at his age. One thing he does have in his favour, though, is that he has a very mature outlook. With his ability and vision he's looked a level above most of the reserves but Pacheco has shown he's very much a teamplayer. He's always looking to play in his teammates and knowing Rafa's liking for this type of attitude we might well see him sooner rather than later.

[Sarge]

Dani makes the Ed-lines!
Feb 9 2008 by Tony Barrett, Liverpool Echo

LIVERPOOL chief scout Eduardo Macia may not have won any prizes at the ECHO sports personality awards on Monday night, but he was still one of the happiest guests at the fantastic ECHO Arena.

The reason for his delight was a text message which arrived midway through the awards ceremony telling him that Liverpool reserves had gone one up at Bolton and the scorer was 17-year-old prodigy Dani Pacheco.

Macia was instrumental in bringing Pacheco to Liverpool from Barcelona, despite the Spanish giants’ desperate efforts to hold on to the talented teenager.

No doubt Macia was even happier when he saw the video of Pacheco's goal – his first for the reserves – the following morning as it underlined the huge potential everyone at Anfield believes he possesses.

He still has a long way to go but Pacheco could well be one for Liverpool’s future.

[Rafadom]

Agree with this---Pancheco's biggest attribute is his ability to see what's going on around him, that's why he always finds time and space to make his skill and technique pay. He looks so much better with Nemeth than with Brouwer, pair him with someone of equal intelligence who can see his passes and make the runs i.e Torres and we have the makings of a very productive partnership. Having said that, however, I think it's still too early for him. Gary Ablett has been very careful with him, bringing him on slowly and only starting him in the last couple of games. Until were sure he's strong enough physically, it has to a risk at his age. One thing he does have in his favour, though, is that he has a very mature outlook. With his ability and vision he's looked a level above most of the reserves but Pacheco has shown he's very much a teamplayer. He's always looking to play in his teammates and knowing Rafa's liking for this type of attitude we might well see him sooner rather than later.

That what sets the better players from the others its their vission their matrity at the age groups are of a higher standard than they should be.

We are doing very well in the striking department i expect nemmeth and Pancheco to go out o n loan soon with Eccelstone making the step up from the under 18's.

Wether it be a year or two it will happen, i feel Rafa wants them to play in a passing side and we havent got that yet once we do we will have a perfect set up for these lads to express themselves and develop.

Allthough have been impressed with nemeth and Pancheco dealing with the higher balls and the akward play because you arnt allways going to play well so if the can deal with in style and affectively they should do well.

[ouestlereferee]

That what sets the better players from the others its their vission their matrity at the age groups are of a higher standard than they should be.

We are doing very well in the striking department i expect nemmeth and Pancheco to go out o n loan soon with Eccelstone making the step up from the under 18's.

agree.  not sure about the loan move though, maybe for nemeth but not pacheco.

Wether it be a year or two it will happen, i feel Rafa wants them to play in a passing side and we havent got that yet once we do we will have a perfect set up for these lads to express themselves and develop.

Allthough have been impressed with nemeth and Pancheco dealing with the higher balls and the akward play because you arnt allways going to play well so if the can deal with in style and affectively they should do well.

I think a passing game is limited by that of the worst passer.  I don't think we're that far away from it, but that we have one or two players who are holding us back in this regard.  I'd expect this to change even over this summer as some of those lowest common denominators are shipped out.  To illustrate, an eleven of Reina, Arbeloa, Insua, Carra, Agger, Masch, Gerrard, Lucas, Benayoun, Torres, Aguero or equivalent  would leave Carra is the only limited passer of the ball - most of those players we have already, but we're losing out because of things like Carra playing between Finnan & Hyypia, neither of whom are good passers, Riise, Kuyt, Voronin, and formerly Sissoko.   With the team I've mentioned, Skrtel, Alonso, Babel, Pennant, Pacheco etc would be all able to slot in and out.

In short, things should be very different in 6 months time, and we may very well (hopefully) be that passing team Pacheco develops in..

[Sarge]

Dying to see Nemeth & Pacheco play.

[Rafadom]

agree.  not sure about the loan move though, maybe for nemeth but not pacheco.

I think a passing game is limited by that of the worst passer.  I don't think we're that far away from it, but that we have one or two players who are holding us back in this regard.  I'd expect this to change even over this summer as some of those lowest common denominators are shipped out.  To illustrate, an eleven of Reina, Arbeloa, Insua, Carra, Agger, Masch, Gerrard, Lucas, Benayoun, Torres, Aguero or equivalent  would leave Carra is the only limited passer of the ball - most of those players we have already, but we're losing out because of things like Carra playing between Finnan & Hyypia, neither of whom are good passers, Riise, Kuyt, Voronin, and formerly Sissoko.   With the team I've mentioned, Skrtel, Alonso, Babel, Pennant, Pacheco etc would be all able to slot in and out.

In short, things should be very different in 6 months time, and we may very well (hopefully) be that passing team Pacheco develops in..

I agree to a certain extent about our passing game personally. I do feel that better players will breed better passing. But to actually bass our whole game on it has proved difficult as shown many of our players arnt used to that system and only a few have shown that are good enough for it.

Arbeloa, Babel, Torres, Gerrard (to a certain extent), Agger, Skertal, Lucas and Masch are all players that have shown they play a ball and work triangles and with quick timing.

Alonso is way to slow and hampers our play at times no matter how pin point his pass is.

Thats eight players our of our first 11 and and a squad of 22 mainly. If we can get that first 11 as well as the 22 which will also come from better techincal coaching which i feel we need up to a better level of passing and movement then the introduction of youngsters will be better when we are comfortable on the ball all round the pitch.

It will probably only take a season to get the players and hopefully the coaches, if DIC take over then it shouldnt be a problem to introduce them.

[ouestlereferee]

I agree to a certain extent about our passing game personally. I do feel that better players will breed better passing. But to actually bass our whole game on it has proved difficult as shown many of our players arnt used to that system and only a few have shown that are good enough for it.

Arbeloa, Babel, Torres, Gerrard (to a certain extent), Agger, Skertal, Lucas and Masch are all players that have shown they play a ball and work triangles and with quick timing.

Alonso is way to slow and hampers our play at times no matter how pin point his pass is.

Thats eight players our of our first 11 and and a squad of 22 mainly. If we can get that first 11 as well as the 22 which will also come from better techincal coaching which i feel we need up to a better level of passing and movement then the introduction of youngsters will be better when we are comfortable on the ball all round the pitch.

It will probably only take a season to get the players and hopefully the coaches, if DIC take over then it shouldnt be a problem to introduce them.

We're on the same page on this one....  If you look at your list of players, note that StevieG & Agger are the only 2 here more than 12 months.  Is it an indication of the direction we are going?  I'd add Benayoun, Insua & Reina to that list too..

Alonso's lack of mobility is hardly a great asset - that said, I'd like to see him playing further forward where I don't think it would be as problematic...

[Rafadom]

We're on the same page on this one....  If you look at your list of players, note that StevieG & Agger are the only 2 here more than 12 months.  Is it an indication of the direction we are going?  I'd add Benayoun, Insua & Reina to that list too..

Alonso's lack of mobility is hardly a great asset - that said, I'd like to see him playing further forward where I don't think it would be as problematic...

Yeah i agree we are deff going in the right direction and the players Rafa is brining in do have a better all round game than many of GH's team thats for shore, but we need that allround game and the step up in quality as well and that will only come with more money being spent.

I also hope to more techincal coaches braught in as im shore we will have better football next year with the new players but we need to extend that to make thoughs players better im shore Rafa knows all this i just think his hands are tied.

For reasons we all know.

[nocturnalvin]

I do have concerns regarding our ressies setup, mainly due to a lack of a system of play in the senior team.

Arsenal has a set way of playing, and so do the scums.

the reserves do exactly what the seniors are doing in terms of system, and it makes progressing into the senior team alot far more easier.

When the young players get promoted into the senior squad, they would have been familiar with the system.

For instance, Arsenal do alot of 7-a-side half the size of the field, both the senior team and the ressies.
Arsene Wenger only buys a certain type of player, those with technique and pace.

Rafa still cannot decide on a certain system of play, and i think it makes it alot more difficult for players to fit in.

[ouestlereferee]

I do have concerns regarding our ressies setup, mainly due to a lack of a system of play in the senior team.

Arsenal has a set way of playing, and so do the scums.

the reserves do exactly what the seniors are doing in terms of system, and it makes progressing into the senior team alot far more easier.

When the young players get promoted into the senior squad, they would have been familiar with the system.

For instance, Arsenal do alot of 7-a-side half the size of the field, both the senior team and the ressies.
Arsene Wenger only buys a certain type of player, those with technique and pace.

Rafa still cannot decide on a certain system of play, and i think it makes it alot more difficult for players to fit in.

Some fair points.   In Rafa's defence though, everyone's got to start somewhere, and you can see a trend in the players that have come in over time, and especially with the younger ones....    The fact that the ressies, dare I say it, play a better brand of football than the first team, plus the increasing gametime for Lucas, Babel, (and hopefully now Insua, Skrtel, & Agger) give an idea of the direction....

[2barsup]

I agree to a certain extent about our passing game personally. I do feel that better players will breed better passing. But to actually bass our whole game on it has proved difficult as shown many of our players arnt used to that system and only a few have shown that are good enough for it.

Arbeloa, Babel, Torres, Gerrard (to a certain extent), Agger, Skertal, Lucas and Masch are all players that have shown they play a ball and work triangles and with quick timing.

Alonso is way to slow and hampers our play at times no matter how pin point his pass is.

Thats eight players our of our first 11 and and a squad of 22 mainly. If we can get that first 11 as well as the 22 which will also come from better techincal coaching which i feel we need up to a better level of passing and movement then the introduction of youngsters will be better when we are comfortable on the ball all round the pitch.

It will probably only take a season to get the players and hopefully the coaches, if DIC take over then it shouldnt be a problem to introduce them.

You can see in the reserves and U-18s combinations of players that comfortable with the ball in tight situations and as you say there is a core of young players in the first team squad with those skills. Its clear where Rafa intends to take us if he's given the time to finish the job.

[Sarge]

godwin antwi was on soccer am today.
he had the worst attempt at cross bar challenge in the entire hartlepool squad.

So sell him.

[ouestlereferee]

godwin antwi was on soccer am today.
he had the worst attempt at cross bar challenge in the entire hartlepool squad.

presumably kuyt would be good at this - i remember him hitting the woodwork several times last season....

[The Infamous_LFC]

So any of you think with Torres out and possibly Babel aswell with Kuyt and Crouch due to start upfront that Rafa will promote a youngster?

Nemeth maybe?

I know it is a long shot but him being on the bench is no harm besides if he would feature not like he will get mauled he has played over 30 professional games already.

[Kite]

godwin antwi was on soccer am today.
he had the worst attempt at cross bar challenge in the entire hartlepool squad.

Good he's a defender. 

[Serenity]

So any of you think with Torres out and possibly Babel aswell with Kuyt and Crouch due to start upfront that Rafa will promote a youngster?

Nemeth maybe?

I know it is a long shot but him being on the bench is no harm besides if he would feature not like he will get mauled he has played over 30 professional games already.

It also could be good for him that Rafa has the confidence in him to put him on the bench.

[nocturnalvin]

THe one player i am totally excited by is Dani Pacheco.

What a talent.

[Rafadom]

I do have concerns regarding our ressies setup, mainly due to a lack of a system of play in the senior team.

Arsenal has a set way of playing, and so do the scums.

the reserves do exactly what the seniors are doing in terms of system, and it makes progressing into the senior team alot far more easier.

When the young players get promoted into the senior squad, they would have been familiar with the system.

For instance, Arsenal do alot of 7-a-side half the size of the field, both the senior team and the ressies.
Arsene Wenger only buys a certain type of player, those with technique and pace.

Rafa still cannot decide on a certain system of play, and i think it makes it alot more difficult for players to fit in.

Actually thats nots the case, if you look at the reserve side as well as the under 18s the start off pattern of play is 442 with a solid base and wingers trying to dominate in possetion as scoring attempts.

When the side is on the back foot, they try and play through the middle with a three up front formation on the break. Or possiby the four depending on the opposition.

Their is more certain pattern of play to our reserves and our under 18's than our first team, but thats due to the personel and the price of players.

Rafa's system would work but it needs certain types of players to do it, i.e. the two up front one has to adapt at dropping deep and playing the ball through the forward of advancing wide players.

The second striker should be able to play on the shoulder or go wide. Now we have both in Babel and Torres.

What we need now is a winger than can drive forward and act as a forward in the breaking three but also still be a very affective winger.

Add this to quick full backs in the 442 formation delivering crosses it should provid plenty of football and amunition for the strikers.

Rafa has a certain style of play that needs certain style of players wingers are extremly hard to find but they are their we just ned to get them.

Personally i would prefer a 433 formation from start to finnish but i dont think it will happen.

Also wenger has had along time to develop that style of play very much like Fergie, Rafa has an extremly tough job their is no point in putting more pressure on him.

[skidz73]

Good then so these lads will get plenty of game time.

Just a thought, but if the ressies are always full of the young lads, then how exactly do our irregular squad players ever get games without rotation? Does that explain why some of them fail to perform?

[stokes chin]

[Sarge]

Just a thought, but if the ressies are always full of the young lads, then how exactly do our irregular squad players ever get games without rotation? Does that explain why some of them fail to perform?

[stokes chin]

Oh now their is a valid point.

[ouestlereferee]

So any of you think with Torres out and possibly Babel aswell with Kuyt and Crouch due to start upfront that Rafa will promote a youngster?

Nemeth maybe?

I know it is a long shot but him being on the bench is no harm besides if he would feature not like he will get mauled he has played over 30 professional games already.

Well it appears as if only Reina, Carra, Hyypia, Skrtel, Riise, Pennant, Masch, Lucas, Yossi, Kewell, Gerrard, Crouch, Kuyt, & Itandje are definitely fit & eligible.  That's only 14.  Finnan, Aurelio, & Babel are maybes.  So he could easily have less than 16 fit first teamers.  I'm a big Rafa fan but I think I'd  lose all faith in him if he didn't promote a youngster to the bench in this situation...  I'd guess Insua or Spearing or El Zhar are most likely, then Nemeth, then Pacheco...

[ouestlereferee]

Just a thought, but if the ressies are always full of the young lads, then how exactly do our irregular squad players ever get games without rotation? Does that explain why some of them fail to perform?

[stokes chin]

i think there are very few PL players who play in the reserves even of the top teams...  there are probably only about 3 "between" the ressies and first team:
- Insua, El Zhar, Leto (Hobbs is gone on loan and didn't play for the ressies since he got promoted to the first team)
- Jonny Evans, Danny Simpson, Tom Heaton at United
- Gavin Hoyte, Kieran Gibbs at Arsenal
- Nobody at Chelsea

And these are all very very much fringe players.  Even Arsenal's "reserves" that play in the Carling Cup are not actually the team that compete in the ressie leagues, it's more like their equivalent of Voronin, Lucas, Itandje, and, before they left, Sissoko & Hobbs (on loan)....

[Sarge]

Did the reserves play yesterday?

[Sarge]

I feel the new sub rule is a massive bonus for the Youth/Reserve players to get on the bench.

[Manila Kop]

I feel the new sub rule is a massive bonus for the Youth/Reserve players to get on the bench.

True, it's about time we gave managers the option of 7 subs.  I'm very encouraged by all the analysis here about how the ressies and youth teams slot into Rafa's style of play and hopefully he'll be given the time to push some of them into the senior team so we can have a more coherent playing philosophy on display.

[Uhoh AureliOs]

Whats up with Nemeth at the moment? Haven't heard anything since his last little scoring rout - is he out injured?

[Sarge]

True, it's about time we gave managers the option of 7 subs.  I'm very encouraged by all the analysis here about how the ressies and youth teams slot into Rafa's style of play and hopefully he'll be given the time to push some of them into the senior team so we can have a more coherent playing philosophy on display.

Yes nothing but positive reading about 5/6 young players is good hear. Lets just hope they come good here and not sold off.