Topic: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE

[Zeb]

Has there been anything about how far our current doses of the Pfizer vaccine would get down that list?

Apparently there are 3.2 million over 80s in the UK so I'd expect they'd all get covered.  I've no idea how many under 80s and staff there are in care homes though.

I'd guess there will be a sizable minority who also won't want to take the vaccine.

Only two things I've seen are that the very first batch UK gets is 800,000 doses, that was Hancock talking about it on the Today programme this morning - I don't think I misheard but it was early, and the press conference today when the head of the NHS was talking about March or April being their expectation for completing Phase 1.

[rob1966]

Has there been anything about how far our current doses of the Pfizer vaccine would get down that list?

Apparently there are 3.2 million over 80s in the UK so I'd expect they'd all get covered.  I've no idea how many under 80s and staff there are in care homes though.

I'd guess there will be a sizable minority who also won't want to take the vaccine.

There is over 12 million people aged 65 or older in the UK, going to need at least 20 million doses to cover those - people with seriously weakened immune systems cannot take it I read earlier, so there will be a lot who cannot be done.

[rossipersempre]

Is there any info as to the ongoing efficacy of the vaccine? Will we need yearly immunisations?

That all depends on the the rate of mutation (within the genetic profile) of the virus. At the moment, it appears to be slow to adapt thankfully, much slower than ‘flu for example. That may change in time of course, and may lead to needing regular vaccine development against emerging new strains in future years, hence the annual flu jab (which is much less effective incidentally because it targets the strain identified the previous year given it took that time to adapt the vaccine in the interim).

So the key will be keeping ahead of the virus, ensuring any mutations are identified quickly, any human transmission is limited (below phase 4 of the WHO pandemic criteria), and effective new vaccine development (which has really pushed on as a positive consequence this year, with multiple vaccines developed with unparalleled speed, some targeting different aspects of the virus, another factor which helps) is alert and ongoing. A kind of whack a mole if you like.

[filopastry]

AZ were talking about 40m doses by the end of Q1, but they seem to be well behind on their original plans so we can only hope that doesn't slip further, plus I suppose we still have an awkward choice to make there about dosing.

The US talking about 100m people vaccinated by the end of Feb, that will be a very impressive feat if they pull that off

[John Higgins]

AZ were talking about 40m doses by the end of Q1, but they seem to be well behind on their original plans so we can only hope that doesn't slip further, plus I suppose we still have an awkward choice to make there about dosing.

The US talking about 100m people vaccinated by the end of Feb, that will be a very impressive feat if they pull that off

The US is so fucked that if they don’t get that then the numbers will be horrific, not that they aren’t already.

[rossipersempre]

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/dec/02/uks-triumph-at-approving-covid-vaccine-must-not-become-a-chest-thumping-exercise

Well worth a read.

[djahern]

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/dec/02/uks-triumph-at-approving-covid-vaccine-must-not-become-a-chest-thumping-exercise

Well worth a read.

I must admit that the sound bites and rhetoric from the politicians being front and centre this morning was disappointing. This should have been announced to the country at the MHRA press conference with all the detail that they gave later in the day. I think today’s mistake wasn’t announcing emergency approval before anyone else, it was again the announcement being trumpeted by the likes of Hancock on the morning TV shows and Sharma on Twitter proclaiming the UK was leading the charge for humanity.

Absolute drivel from them both. First impressions matter, and they certainly matter when it comes to something like this that requires the public to go along with it. It should have been left to the experts to announce it and explain their decisions while the government stayed quiet, but they just can’t help themselves. So we were greeted this morning instead by rubbish headlines about brexit and leading the charge. There’s nothing to gain from those headlines this morning. If anything they would have raised doubts in some people’s minds as opposed to the alternative if the MHRA had announced and taken questions - they may have calmed some of the fears that some people may have had right from the off. Instead, their message came later in the day, after first impressions have already been made.

[Guz-kop]

This government just cannot pass up the opportunity for a soundbite. Absolute drivel is a good description. Their handling of the pandemic in virtually every aspect has been dreadful and they're clinging on to anything to make them look more favourable

[RainbowFlick]

Will be really interesting to see uptake in STEM in the next few years. This accelerated development can really change scientific discovery.

Was thinking about this today. I'm in my early 30s now and the science has really captured my interest throughout this. Makes me wonder if this happened during my school days would I have chosen a different career path or would it put you off altogether?

Wouldn't surprise me if there's far less keen to become doctors and nurses due to how badly this has all been handled, the stress and the lack of anything more than empty gestures.

[CraigDS]

Was thinking about this today. I'm in my early 30s now and the science has really captured my interest throughout this. Makes me wonder if this happened during my school days would I have chosen a different career path or would it put you off altogether?

Wouldn't surprise me if there's far less keen to become doctors and nurses due to how badly this has all been handled, the stress and the lack of anything more than empty gestures.

I can guarantee there will be a lot of children of public sector workers who, if they hadn’t already, will have zero interest in following in their parent’s footsteps after seeing how they’ve been treated.

[RainbowFlick]

None yet. That will only come with following the trial participants for a bit longer.

It will start to get tricky to continue the same comparison as they've done - comparing the infection numbers in the vaccinated group v the placebo, as by right they should really now offer the vaccine to the placebo group.

On my trial they said if you're 'next in line' for an approved vaccine you can opt out of the trial and be de-blinded as to whether you're on a vaccine or placebo in order to get the approved vaccine if necessary. I'd probably do this down to living and being around immunocompromised people, but I imagine a significant enough amount of volunteers are probably at the end of the list anyway (such as me) so hopefully not too much impact on longer-term studies. Will be interesting to see the year long results.

[Sammy5IsAlive]

I can guarantee there will be a lot of children of public sector workers who, if they hadn’t already, will have zero interest in following in their parent’s footsteps after seeing how they’ve been treated.

To be honest I think that is a pretty jaundiced way of looking at things.

I'd imagine that most people on the front line of the public sector are not doing those jobs in the hope of getting belly rubs off a Tory government - they are doing those jobs because they believe in the 'society' that Thatcher said doesn't exist. I can only speak from my own anecdotal experience (being part of the 'front-line' staff of an inner London borough) but as far as I can tell the vast majority are pretty proud of how they and their services have dealt with this situation. Nobody's happy with what Sunak has said recently about public sector pay. But I imagine that for my colleagues that have kids (I don't) the message that has been going down to them is that this is what public service is about - that we might not be paid as much as some in the private sector but if you believe in your job then the pleasure from doing it well in a time of crisis outweighs the underlying frustration that comes from being undervalued and underpaid.

[afc tukrish]

To be honest I think that is a pretty jaundiced way of looking at things.

I'd imagine that most people on the front line of the public sector are not doing those jobs in the hope of getting belly rubs off a Tory government - they are doing those jobs because they believe in the 'society' that Thatcher said doesn't exist. I can only speak from my own anecdotal experience (being part of the 'front-line' staff of an inner London borough) but as far as I can tell the vast majority are pretty proud of how they and their services have dealt with this situation. Nobody's happy with what Sunak has said recently about public sector pay. But I imagine that for my colleagues that have kids (I don't) the message that has been going down to them is that this is what public service is about - that we might not be paid as much as some in the private sector but if you believe in your job then the pleasure from doing it well in a time of crisis outweighs the underlying frustration that comes from being undervalued and underpaid.

Guessing that Craig believes that public sector workers feel significantly worse than undervalued and underpaid, rather put at unnecessary and politically expedient risk...

[leroy]

Over 2800 deaths in the US yesterday - worst to date. 

[CraigDS]

Guessing that Craig believes that public sector workers feel significantly worse than undervalued and underpaid, rather put at unnecessary and politically expedient risk...

Yup.

I think most public sector workers do so, in a lot of cases but not all, for the love of the job. And Sammie you’re right in that regard that they don’t do it to get belly rubs.

However they’ve also been hung out to dry in a lot of cases... totally inadequate PPE supply for those in the medical field, pretty much zero support for teaching staff, police having the rug pulled out from them in terms of what they can and cannot police, and anyone who works for the council will ha e seen them fucked over once again.

There comes a point where some current public sector staff will think fuck that, the love doesn’t make up for the shite, and their kids will double and triple think if they want that hassle too.

My missus falls into the former category, absolutely loves teaching but the way this has all been handled has hastened her decision to do her phd and her last day is in a few weeks at the end of this term and she’ll certainly never go back to it.

[harleydanger]

When I tell my kids and grandkids about 2020, I won't just tell them about the shite stuff, I'll tell them about how boss science is.

What about VAR then Dad? They said that was science....

[harleydanger]

Over 2800 deaths in the US yesterday - worst to date. 

A 9/11 a day. Jesus.

[redbyrdz]

Was thinking about this today. I'm in my early 30s now and the science has really captured my interest throughout this. Makes me wonder if this happened during my school days would I have chosen a different career path or would it put you off altogether?

Wouldn't surprise me if there's far less keen to become doctors and nurses due to how badly this has all been handled, the stress and the lack of anything more than empty gestures.

I can imagine a bigger interest in health care jobs. There will be lots of kids with memories of clapping for the NHS, talk of heroes, how the NHS saves us, a vaccine that meant live could go back to normal. That will weigh more than news about public sector pay freezes.

Children of actual frontline health workers might have different memories of course.

[redbyrdz]

Doesn't help the people that can't get the vaccine though for medical reasons.

That begs the question though, is there any info on whether people that can't get some vaccines are able to take these?

My understanding is the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are a completely new kind of vaccine that have never been used before so not sure if they have the same limitation in terms of who can take them?

The only example I can think of is that some of the flu vaccines are 'grown' in chicken eggs and have chicken egg protein in them. So people with a chicken egg allergy might have an allergic reaction and are advised not to take this flu vaccine. As far as I know, none of the covid vaccines have anything to do with chicken eggs.

The other reason somebody might not be able to get vaccinated is if their immune system isn't working right due to some underlying illness (or the treatment of one). In that case, giving it more to do with a vaccine isn't a good idea. Those are the people that need to be protected by everyone around them getting vaccinated.

[Komic]

Yup.

I think most public sector workers do so, in a lot of cases but not all, for the love of the job. And Sammie you’re right in that regard that they don’t do it to get belly rubs.

However they’ve also been hung out to dry in a lot of cases... totally inadequate PPE supply for those in the medical field, pretty much zero support for teaching staff, police having the rug pulled out from them in terms of what they can and cannot police, and anyone who works for the council will ha e seen them fucked over once again.

There comes a point where some current public sector staff will think fuck that, the love doesn’t make up for the shite, and their kids will double and triple think if they want that hassle too.

My missus falls into the former category, absolutely loves teaching but the way this has all been handled has hastened her decision to do her phd and her last day is in a few weeks at the end of this term and she’ll certainly never go back to it.

I can see more doctor's emigrating so they can do the job they love but get treated the way they deserve. My mate who is a doctor worked in Australia for a bit but came back to be closer to family. However, when I saw him in the summer it sounded like once their GP training was finished they would head back to Australia.

[CraigDS]

I can see more doctor's emigrating so they can do the job they love but get treated the way they deserve. My mate who is a doctor worked in Australia for a bit but came back to be closer to family. However, when I saw him in the summer it sounded like once their GP training was finished they would head back to Australia.

My gf’s best mate is in her final year training to become a doctor, she did around 6 months in Australia as part of this and said the same with regards to how different she noticed medical staff are treated out there. Not just pay but the general care for ensuring the work life balance is correct.

[No666]

On my trial they said if you're 'next in line' for an approved vaccine you can opt out of the trial and be de-blinded as to whether you're on a vaccine or placebo in order to get the approved vaccine if necessary. I'd probably do this down to living and being around immunocompromised people, but I imagine a significant enough amount of volunteers are probably at the end of the list anyway (such as me) so hopefully not too much impact on longer-term studies. Will be interesting to see the year long results.

Interesting, thank you. I've had contact from the Janssen trial and am over 65 so very unsure whether to continue or not. The problem, I imagine, is that they need the full spectrum of age groups to complete the trial effectively. Or will they simply ring-fence subsequent approved vaccines for the age spectrum they were proved effective for?

[Welshred]

I know this has been said before but Gavin Williamson is a fucking idiot

https://twitter.com/rachaelvenables/status/1334409024889040896?s=20

[AndyMuller]

I know this has been said before but Gavin Williamson is a fucking idiot

https://twitter.com/rachaelvenables/status/1334409024889040896?s=20

Absolute gammon.

[Zeb]

Was telling Johnson ducked it while stood next to independent experts. Bunch of shites. Should be celebrating all the people across the world who have and are contributing to finding a way out rather than going all blue passport over it.

----

FT on private availability for the Pfizer vaccine at least. https://www.ft.com/content/1b8def75-9b44-4a62-991e-2711b5c578c2

   People will not be able to pay to jump the coronavirus inoculation queue for many months, public health officials and companies insisted after the UK regulator became the first in Europe or North America to authorise a Covid-19 vaccine.

“I can say clearly and confidently that there are no plans to supply the private sector for the foreseeable future — no chance at all,” said Ben Osborn, Pfizer UK country manager, after the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency approved the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine on Wednesday.

“Equity is at the heart of our decision to supply only the NHS,” Mr Osborn added.

He was confident that the Pfizer supply chain was secure enough to prevent unauthorised diversions of the vaccine to the private market.

Public health officials in the UK pointed out that, even if companies were willing to sell their product for private use, anyone seeking to receive it in that way would be at the back of the queue, behind countries and states that had already pre-ordered millions of doses.

Manufacturers would break the terms of their supply contracts if they diverted precious stocks to private clinics or hospitals ahead of government purchasers. In addition, regulations would prevent the sale of vaccines on the open market.

Most private clinics are not expecting to offer coronavirus inoculations at least until the NHS has completed the first phase of its public programme. This initial rollout will prioritise everyone aged 50 or over, health and social care workers and people with underlying medical conditions that put them at higher risk of serious Covid-19 symptoms.

Neil Haughton, president of the Independent Doctors’ Federation and a general practitioner at the Portobello Clinic in London, said he would be “astonished” if any vaccine could legally be bought privately for many months in the UK.

Speaking about the Pfizer vaccine, which needs to be stored at -70C, transported in dry ice and used within 5 days of being removed from the ultra-cold freezer, he noted that most private clinics are “not huge so . . . the logistics of doing it without the infrastructure of the NHS will be exceptionally difficult”.

Mark Ali, founder of the Private Harley Street Clinic in London, said he has received calls every day from clients about when they will be able to access doses of a coronavirus vaccine. He hoped that early next year “some of it could enter into the private market”.

“My view is that people should be able to exercise their civil liberty,” Dr Ali said. But he added that “if the government says it shouldn’t be allowed in private practice, if that’s the law, we’d respect that.”

Dr Haughton speculated that the vaccine would only become available privately in the UK after around 40-50 per cent of the population had been inoculated by the NHS. He pointed to examples of vaccines for children which cannot be accessed by private clinics because they are part of a national programme.

One thing which is raised at the end of that article, and also in the advice to government, is that being registered with the NHS isn't always a given so government will need to sort that out. Although obviously people with a Harley Street doctor (it is the FT I guess) having different issues again to those without one at all.

[FlashingBlade]

I know this has been said before but Gavin Williamson is a fucking idiot

https://twitter.com/rachaelvenables/status/1334409024889040896?s=20

Ironically on page 1066..when...er!..The French where better

[rob1966]

I know this has been said before but Gavin Williamson is a fucking idiot

https://twitter.com/rachaelvenables/status/1334409024889040896?s=20

Highest number of deaths in Europe, 5th highest in the world, overspent on PPE by £10 billion because we were not prepared for an event we knew would happen, lockdown after lockdown, no coherent plans, no clue on what to do, PM catches it due to being a twat, advisors breaking the law.

Yeah, best country going.

[sinnermichael]

One hospital giving COVID vaccine jabs between Lincoln and Scotland.

 

[classycarra]

One hospital giving COVID vaccine jabs between Lincoln and Scotland.

 

Source?

Presumably that's a list of where vaccine will be available to Hospital and Care Workers, not wider population?

[Samie]

Shouldn't it  be available in evrey fuckin' hospital as soon as possible? 

[classycarra]

Shouldn't it  be available in evrey fuckin' hospital as soon as possible? 

Well, not a single day after it's been licensed no.

Let's wait and see what official sources say before we assess it's availability.

[CraigDS]

And this is what being a big mouth twat gets you - comments from other counties which will pour doubt on some people’s decision to get the vaccine.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-55177948

[killer-heels]

And this is what being a big mouth twat gets you - comments from other counties which will pour doubt on some people’s decision to get the vaccine.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-55177948

Fucking hell. Can Trump sack him?

[filopastry]

UK numbers

Cases 14,879 (prior week 17,555)
Deaths 414 (prior week 498)

Cases by sample date


Deaths by date

[redbyrdz]

UK numbers

Cases 14,879 (prior week 17,555)
Deaths 414 (prior week 498)

Cases by sample date


Deaths by date

Hope cases drop a bit more this week, otherwise the Christmas free for all will not be fun.

[CraigDS]

Hope cases drop a bit more this week, otherwise the Christmas free for all will not be fun.

Certain regions are at a level where it’s not gonna be pretty regardless. Hopefully for the likes of Liverpool it won’t be too bad but guess it really depends how much people take the piss.

[ShakaHislop]

Swedish high schools switch to distance learning as second COVID wave mounts

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-health-coronavirus-sweden-education/swedish-high-schools-switch-to-distance-learning-as-second-covid-wave-mounts-idUKKBN28D1TF?il=0

[Snail]

Was thinking about this today. I'm in my early 30s now and the science has really captured my interest throughout this. Makes me wonder if this happened during my school days would I have chosen a different career path or would it put you off altogether?

Wouldn't surprise me if there's far less keen to become doctors and nurses due to how badly this has all been handled, the stress and the lack of anything more than empty gestures.

My niece started studying medicine at Liverpool Uni this year, I think she's mental personally (but obviously very proud of her!)

[djahern]

And this is what being a big mouth twat gets you - comments from other counties which will pour doubt on some people’s decision to get the vaccine.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-55177948

It’s a really stupid comment from Fauci though, and I respect the guy a lot.

The UK rushed their decision but when the US gives their decision 8 days later they haven’t? That makes little sense. Vaccine scepticism knows no borders, his comments will be turned around on him when the US approves next week. These back and forth comments by the UK/US/EU are going to give fuel to the sceptics - within their own countries also - and it needs to stop.

Granted his comments aren’t as ridiculous as our own Williamson’s comments today.

[CraigDS]

It’s a really stupid comment from Fauci though, and I respect the guy a lot.

The UK rushed their decision but when the US gives their decision 8 days later they haven’t? That makes little sense. Vaccine scepticism knows no borders, his comments will be turned around on him when the US approves next week. These back and forth comments by the UK/US/EU are going to give fuel to the sceptics - within their own countries also - and it needs to stop.

Granted his comments aren’t as ridiculous as our own Williamson’s comments today.

Oh I agree, both are fucking stupid.