Author Topic: Paris  (Read 184850 times)

Offline Son of Spion

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Re: Paris
« Reply #320 on: May 30, 2022, 04:46:20 pm »
What's more they had recent evidence of that from the final in Kiev so there were no excuses for the heavy handed approach.
I don't know what experience other fans had in Dortmund in 2001 but I recall that while there was a substantial police presence around the town, it was very relaxed. Police were mingling, laughing and joking, having photos taken with fans. It felt like they were there to ensure the safely of fans and there was no sense of it feeling confrontational. I don't recall too many problems getting into the stadium either. I think I'd be happy to go to another game in Germany but France is definitely a no-go place for football for me now.
That's good policing. There to help and assist, but prepared for any problems that might arise. Then, policing what is in front of them at the time.

A well organized event with proper stewarding and flexible policing goes without a hitch 99.9 times out of 100.

The light that burns twice as bright, burns half as long, and you've burned so very, very brightly, Jürgen.

Offline Alan_X

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Re: Paris
« Reply #321 on: May 30, 2022, 04:47:14 pm »
I think the fake tickets thing is just a smokescreen.

As you said, pretty much every oversubscribed event anywhere in the world will have forged tickets doing the rounds. Sporting events, music festivals, concerts etc. You name it, if there is more demand for an event than there are tickets, some crooks will be looking to sell forgeries for it.

Competent organisation and security deals with it easily.

There were some people with fake tickets at the FA Cup Final. There was a steward outside the gates spotting and the way they dealt with it was to let the fake through and then have security eject them after the trunstile. So the people with real tickets weren't inconvenienced and the fakes were confiscated.

It's not rocket science.

The Stade de France is a garbage stadium. Really badly designed from every point of view. The approaches aren't adequate and the signage is awful. The access should be through proper turnstiles not an office style access gate. Open scalable perimeter fences are not fit for purpose - I saw at least one steward handing what looked like a paper ticket through the bars.

Inside the facilities were shite. Not enough toilets or food and beverage outlets. My phone was really low so I looked for a socket and found two. One was being used by a steward to charge his own phone and the other had a light plugged into it for some reason. 
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Offline Samie

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Re: Paris
« Reply #322 on: May 30, 2022, 04:47:16 pm »
We have the journos on our side in this one too. They experienced the shite in Paris too. AP photographer was attacked and asked to delete his footage. They are fucked and they know it. They just want to see what mud sticks by talking shite now.

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Re: Paris
« Reply #323 on: May 30, 2022, 04:48:20 pm »
https://twitter.com/SaraMenai/status/1530845571241607168?t=hxnO3pVEdxckHaRdpWsJWg&s=19

Man this video made me really angry. What did he do wrong to be treated like this? absolutely nothing.

If the club is too weak to take actions against UEFA then fans should be compensated by the club.

Go bollocks
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

Offline Alan_X

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Re: Paris
« Reply #324 on: May 30, 2022, 04:51:14 pm »
The various crown princes all got ins afely. They'll probably not be arsed about anything else.

Mastercard and Expedia had chaperoned groups caught up in the crush.

Both are Official UEFA sponsors:

https://www.uefa.com/partners/

My photo:

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Offline redmark

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Re: Paris
« Reply #325 on: May 30, 2022, 04:55:14 pm »
PSG Ultras banner: “28/05/22 Police prefects, your incompetence is now shown to the world”

https://twitter.com/Mogsey2005/status/1531282627969179649
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Re: Paris
« Reply #326 on: May 30, 2022, 04:55:48 pm »
https://twitter.com/SaraMenai/status/1530845571241607168?t=hxnO3pVEdxckHaRdpWsJWg&s=19

Man this video made me really angry. What did he do wrong to be treated like this? absolutely nothing.

If the club is too weak to take actions against UEFA then fans should be compensated by the club.

That looks very much like a woman copper who sprayed those Red's fans - There's a picture in the Athletic doing similar (randomly peppering fans)- It looks very much like the same bizzie.


https://theathletic.com/3330768/2022/05/30/liverpool-champions-league-gas/

« Last Edit: May 30, 2022, 05:03:46 pm by Eddie »

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Re: Paris
« Reply #327 on: May 30, 2022, 04:55:58 pm »
We have the journos on our side in this one too. They experienced the shite in Paris too. AP photographer was attacked and asked to delete his footage. They are fucked and they know it. They just want to see what mud sticks by talking shite now.
TV reporter who witnessed the chaos was saying there will be a backlash from Corporate sponsorship to UEFA, many of these people were also caught up in the crush and the police response, they know the official response of fake tickets is bullshit as well. he argues this is what really hurts UEFA. sponsors pulling out.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2022, 04:57:35 pm by oldfordie »
It might take our producers five minutes to find 60 economists who feared Brexit and five hours to find a sole voice who espoused it.
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Re: Paris
« Reply #328 on: May 30, 2022, 04:58:28 pm »
Kaveh Solhekol is totally damning of the French.

This is just surreal.

https://twitter.com/skysportsnews/status/1531252864651231233?s=21&t=vAtpu3vY-7496AaEJMX5IA

I’m not usually a fan of Sky but Kaveh has been top class in calling the French out over all of this

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Re: Paris
« Reply #329 on: May 30, 2022, 05:01:09 pm »
Go bollocks

The club can't sue UEFA ?

Offline Charlie Adams fried egg

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Re: Paris
« Reply #330 on: May 30, 2022, 05:03:59 pm »
Thank you for posting that and hope you're OK.
May be worth sending that to Phil Scraton too.

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Re: Paris
« Reply #331 on: May 30, 2022, 05:04:06 pm »
If there were some sort of promotion / relegation system to the ESL, I'd be all up for fucking UEFA right off. They still haven't been held accountable for their part in Heysel.
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Re: Paris
« Reply #332 on: May 30, 2022, 05:05:25 pm »
The club have to move on this quickly. We are having our name dragged through the mud by these bastards. The behaviour of Liverpool fans actually diverted a disaster Saturday evening.

I'd love to see a head of steam built up now and push ahead with a super league of some sort that doesn't involve UEFA.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2022, 05:07:12 pm by Mister Flip Flop »
Soccer - let's face it, its not really about a game of ball anymore is it?

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Re: Paris
« Reply #333 on: May 30, 2022, 05:06:51 pm »
What time did people stay at the fan park for and has anyone got a photos of it towards the end - around an hour before or KO time?

Offline Samie

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Re: Paris
« Reply #334 on: May 30, 2022, 05:07:40 pm »
The club have to move on this quickly. We are having our name dragged through the mud by these bastards. The behaviour of Liverpool fans actually diverted a disaster Saturday evening.

It's good mate. Their response today from the press conference is being torn to shreds by journos who were there on Saturday.

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Re: Paris
« Reply #335 on: May 30, 2022, 05:08:29 pm »
https://twitter.com/steve1anderson/status/1531159963355205632?s=21&t=OLoeIDz6wPWsSERR2Fox5Q

Quote
Here’s Section C of Stade de France on Saturday night - turnstiles not working, fans - some elderly - having to crawl under the barriers. UEFA and French Govt incompetence

Probably explains why a lot of the fans were backed up without the ability to enter.

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Re: Paris
« Reply #336 on: May 30, 2022, 05:10:27 pm »
That looks very much like a woman copper who sprayed those Red's fans - There's a picture in the Athletic doing similar (randomly peppering fans)- It looks very much like the same bizzie.


https://theathletic.com/3330768/2022/05/30/liverpool-champions-league-gas/

Plus the broadcasters who provide UEFA with the largest amount of their revenue. They’ve backed themselves into a corner because they’ve got everyone offside: fans, journalists, tv crews, clubs and the corporates. It’s going to get a lot worse for them before it gets better, the fucking idiots.

It seems like a miracle that no-one was killed; mostly due to the fact that our fans behaved as Kaveh said “in an exemplary manner”.

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Re: Paris
« Reply #337 on: May 30, 2022, 05:12:40 pm »
Spent an hour on the phone earlier with a mate who was there in Paris. Disgusting scenes as many have said, the clear incompetence of the situation reflects how Stade de France should not be considered a top tier venue for such an event.

Key problem is the situation of the stadium with lots of local gang members lurking and targeting out of towners.

And the police were diabolical, my friend saw a Liverpool fan pushed down off a ramp, falling about 4 metres onto his back and the police would not help him. Also a well-heeled woman being robbed - and again - the police would not help her.

Absolute disgrace of a situation for what must be one of the biggest set-piece events in world sport, Uefa cronies should hang their heads in shame.

Suspect they won't :(
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Offline Charlie Adams fried egg

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Re: Paris
« Reply #338 on: May 30, 2022, 05:12:42 pm »

My photo:


Thanks for posting that picture. First impression is that it's not exactly a threatening group of people is it? And yet they're assumed to be hooligans while real hooligans were allowed to run amok just picking off what they saw as the most vulnerable.

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Re: Paris
« Reply #339 on: May 30, 2022, 05:13:44 pm »
I’m not usually a fan of Sky but Kaveh has been top class in calling the French out over all of this

Indeed.

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Re: Paris
« Reply #340 on: May 30, 2022, 05:14:13 pm »
TV reporter who witnessed the chaos was saying there will be a backlash from Corporate sponsorship to UEFA, many of these people were also caught up in the crush and the police response, they know the official response of fake tickets is bullshit as well. he argues this is what really hurts UEFA. sponsors pulling out.

There was obviously chaos before the Euros final last year at Wembley (also a UEFA event). I suppose it was convenient to just blame all that on English fans (with plenty of cause on that occasion) and they've tried the same trick here with that fresh in the memory.

Rangers also had a horrible time in Seville at the ground but at least got an apology from UEFA. UEFA have made a mistake not doing the same. I think fans would have been more forgiving, at least with UEFA; but trying to blame the fans won't be forgiven and any apology will be too little too late and only after they've been caught out lying.
Could have done with Grujic and even Chirivella to tide us over this season

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Re: Paris
« Reply #341 on: May 30, 2022, 05:14:31 pm »
It's not only the English journalists we have, the French ones too are not beliving the lies either. This from Chris Williams.

The French press are questioning everything their minster has said regarding the #UCLfinal , their major outlets are tearing the official line apart with video examples at every sentence, they are also reporting wide scale issues at the Real Madrid end.
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Re: Paris
« Reply #342 on: May 30, 2022, 05:19:21 pm »
I’m starting to see a picture here after seeing a few videos. The turnstiles look like they were inoperable, I imagine the stadium management then tried to redirect fans to the Madrid end, causing problems with the police then refusing the fans entry.

Why the turnstiles stopped working, I am not sure.

Offline johnybarnes

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Re: Paris
« Reply #343 on: May 30, 2022, 05:19:50 pm »
https://twitter.com/RobHarris/status/1531267364972646401

Tried to ask French sports minister Amélie Oudéa-Castéra further why tear gas was fired at Liverpool fans. During a press conference the interior minister said it prevented deaths

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Re: Paris
« Reply #344 on: May 30, 2022, 05:20:33 pm »
Kaveh Solhekol is totally damning of the French.

This is just surreal.

https://twitter.com/skysportsnews/status/1531252864651231233?s=21&t=vAtpu3vY-7496AaEJMX5IA

Quite telling that even Sky Sports are utterly damming of it. And fair play to Kaveh Solhekol - he's not pulling his punches and has done an amazing job of getting the truth out there.

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Re: Paris
« Reply #345 on: May 30, 2022, 05:20:34 pm »
The various crown princes shit-arsed dictators all got in safely. They'll probably not be arsed about anything else.


Just a small correction
A Tory, a worker and an immigrant are sat round a table. There's a plate of 10 biscuits in the middle. The Tory takes 9 then turns to the worker and says "that immigrant is trying to steal your biscuit"

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Re: Paris
« Reply #346 on: May 30, 2022, 05:22:36 pm »
What time did people stay at the fan park for and has anyone got a photos of it towards the end - around an hour before or KO time?

I thought the security at the fan park were reasonable during the day, and even when patting down people, checks etc for getting in, they were spot on. Overall for a crowd that size the behaviour was good, a few incidents but that's to be expected with masses of people all day drinking in the sun.

I came back to the park about an hour before KO, there were 2 small entrances and it was getting very condensed and extremely slow moving. It seemed crazy to me that the couldn't spread the entrances out. Giving the cost to fans of things in the fan park, they surely could afford a better set up.

Where I was standing at the end of the game, there was a security guard who forcefully tried to close the fences at the side which he had opened through the game, and direct everyone toward another entrance. Some of the lads beside us just knocked the fences down and we all walked out over them. Knowing how packed it was at the back of the fan park, it was unreasonable to expect everyone to head down one exit. Seemed like dickhead behaviour from that guard.
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Re: Paris
« Reply #347 on: May 30, 2022, 05:23:21 pm »
https://twitter.com/RobHarris/status/1531267364972646401

Tried to ask French sports minister Amélie Oudéa-Castéra further why tear gas was fired at Liverpool fans. During a press conference the interior minister said it prevented deaths

This is pure corruption.

The clubs and English/Spanish Government need to fight this tooth and nail.
JFT97

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Re: Paris
« Reply #348 on: May 30, 2022, 05:23:39 pm »
Le Figaro: [significant domestic political fallout, as expected - the left focusing on policing, the right on immigration issues]

Champions League: the Senate will hear Darmanin and Oudéa-Castera on Wednesday

Following the incidents that occurred on Saturday at the Stade de France during the champions league final, the Senate will hear the two ministers.

The Senate, dominated by the right-wing opposition, will hear Wednesday the ministers Gérald Darmanin and Amélie Oudéa-Castera on the incidents that occurred Saturday near the Stade de France on the occasion of the final of the Champions League.

The interior and sports ministers will be heard jointly by the Law and Culture Committees, the Senate said in a statement on Monday.

The hearing will take place on Wednesday at 4:30 p.m., said the president of the Culture Committee Laurent Lafon (centrist) in a tweet. It will be open to the press and broadcast on the Senate website.

For Mr. Lafon and the president of the Law Commission François-Noël Buffet (LR), "it is important to ensure that all the lessons of this evening are drawn quickly to reassure the world about the ability of the France to host major events".

Fifteen months before the organization of the Rugby World Cup and less than two years before the holding of the Olympic and Paralympic Games in Paris, Saturday's incidents "have given a sad image of the France in the eyes of the world and raise serious concerns about its ability to organize international competitions in optimal conditions of safety", raise the committees.

They wish to "understand the circumstances that led to this situation" and "determine the responsibilities of the various national and international actors concerned".

On Sunday, Senator LR Michel Savin, president of the study group devoted to major sporting events, had indicated that he would ask for "the opening of a parliamentary commission of inquiry".

«At this stage, the Senate will begin by hearing the ministers and "adjust" its decisions according to the answers provided, Buffet told AFP. "If the information does not seem sufficient to us, we will consider going further," he added.

«Obviously the official version of the chaos at the Stade de France given by the government is out of step with the facts. As if it were necessary to hide the responsibility of the usual scum. The Senate will have to participate in the manifestation of the truth by an independent control, "had reacted Sunday on Twitter the leader of the senators LR Bruno Retailleau.

For its part, the CRCE group with a communist majority announced Monday in a statement the upcoming tabling of a motion for a resolution "aimed at pacifying the maintenance of order in France and learning the lessons of the escalation of violence and the disproportionate use of public force by the authorities".

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Offline RK7

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Re: Paris
« Reply #349 on: May 30, 2022, 05:23:47 pm »
What time did people stay at the fan park for and has anyone got a photos of it towards the end - around an hour before or KO time?

I left straight after the final whistle, could tell the mood wasn't right and wanted to get out out of the area fast. I've got pictures from 8.15pm, I moved towards the back because we were getting crushed.

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Re: Paris
« Reply #350 on: May 30, 2022, 05:24:11 pm »
The club can't sue UEFA ?

Sue them for what? Learn what you’re talking about before writing nonsense about the club being weak
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

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Re: Paris
« Reply #351 on: May 30, 2022, 05:25:01 pm »
This is pure corruption.

The clubs and English/Spanish Government need to fight this tooth and nail.

I actually think they will. Johnson and Macron fucking hate each other - and our Govt could have theirs bang to rights on this.

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Re: Paris
« Reply #352 on: May 30, 2022, 05:27:09 pm »
Le Figaro: [significant domestic political fallout, as expected - the left focusing on policing, the right on immigration issues]

And the "Centre" on the English?

Offline Alan_X

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Re: Paris
« Reply #353 on: May 30, 2022, 05:28:21 pm »
This photo taken by Matt Pearson shows the ticket check beyond the overpass. 5 or 6 people checking 20-30,000 tickets with a marker pen. By the time we reached this point they had abandoned the checks and were letting everyone through.



At the top of the ramp there were more queues at the turnstiles. I had a neutral ticket and went through gate S. Photo timed at 20.17 local time with 40 minutes to go before kick off. No stewards at all on the external concourse. We queued but others were cutting in or jumping over barriers, mostly Madrid fans with neutral tickets.



Timed at 20.39 local time. One steward managing the queue and allowing people to go to the turnstiles one-by-one. No one knew what was happening. Not all turnstiles operating and inadequate numbers of stewards. After queueing for two hours my phone had run low and it wouldn't generate the QR code. Vin managed to pass me his battery pack after they initially wouldn't allow him and I eventually got my ticket validated at 20.54



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Offline redmark

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Re: Paris
« Reply #354 on: May 30, 2022, 05:29:14 pm »
And the "Centre" on the English?
Yep. Politically, they're fucked if they do different. Spending a bit of time on 'French twitter' today has been instructive. Darmanin is detested and the brutality of the Paris police (Mobile Gendarmerie, I think, in this case) hardly new. This has the makings of a major political scandal (which could help the far right).
« Last Edit: May 30, 2022, 05:34:32 pm by redmark »
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The focus now should not be on who the owners are, but limits on what owners can do without formal supporter agreement. At all clubs.

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Re: Paris
« Reply #355 on: May 30, 2022, 05:32:41 pm »
@henrywinter
Certain sponsors and corporate clients are preparing letters of complaint to Uefa detailing their unpleasant experiences, inc crushes, pinchpoints and pepper-spray, at the hands of the police en route into Stade de France. Reflects the assault course undergone by fans. #UCLfinal

***
UEFA might not care what the great unwashed say about Saturday, but they sure as hell care about the prawn sandwich brigade who give them big money do.

Good, maybe those corporate clients will finally be useful.
Liverpool ist Rad!

Offline TeddyTime33

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Re: Paris
« Reply #356 on: May 30, 2022, 05:32:50 pm »
Yep. Politically, they're fucked if they do different.
exactly, and they're the ones in charge atm

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Re: Paris
« Reply #357 on: May 30, 2022, 05:35:57 pm »
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-61633840

BBC now rowing back slightly and changing their tune from their ticketless fans 'leader' this morning.

Offline Alan_X

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Re: Paris
« Reply #358 on: May 30, 2022, 05:36:35 pm »
If you've seen the video of Liverpool fans "climbing over a wall to get into the ground" it's actually at the bottom of the ramp by the underpass. This was after the perfunctory ticket check had been abandoned.

Two screenshots The first is people climbing over and the second clearly shows the same underpass in my previous post. If someone says this is evidence that Liverpool fans bunked in it's not. It's evidence that there was no control on the approcahes to the stadium and that the access was totally inadequate.



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Online DangerScouse

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Re: Paris
« Reply #359 on: May 30, 2022, 05:37:39 pm »
Is Tony Barrett still working at the club?

Almost certain i saw him sitting behind Mo on the private jet coming back from they POTY awards. There was a vid on twitter.