Topic: Arsenal

[Dim Glas]

Look close to adding to Coutinho and Willian to their squad soon. Thoughts?

2 more Kia Joorabchian clients.

Must be great when your club is ran by an agent.

[farawayred]

2 more Kia Joorabchian clients.

Must be great when your club is ran by an agent.

At least everyone is pulling in the same direction. Whatever that may be...

[Ghost Town]

At least everyone is pulling in the same direction. Whatever that may be...

All towards the agent's bank account, it seems

[Dave McCoy]

The amount of UK based journos going off on Arsenal today by highlighting Ozil or Willian contracts is just garbage.  First, nobody is paying to go see the ground crew or other support staff at the Emirates, Old Trafford of Anfield.  If there were no players then none of those people would have jobs to begin with.  Second, whether it's Tottenham, Arsenal or LFC these are the choices of their owners which are all worth billions which is generally a hundred times more than any player.  Any ire should be directed at Stan Kroenke, Joe Lewis, John Henry, etc etc.  To then focus on what other people in the labor class are getting but shouldn't get is just ridiculous and unseemly.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

The amount of UK based journos going off on Arsenal today by highlighting Ozil or Willian contracts is just garbage.  First, nobody is paying to go see the ground crew or other support staff at the Emirates, Old Trafford of Anfield.  If there were no players then none of those people would have jobs to begin with.  Second, whether it's Tottenham, Arsenal or LFC these are the choices of their owners which are all worth billions which is generally a hundred times more than any player.  Any ire should be directed at Stan Kroenke, Joe Lewis, John Henry, etc etc.  To then focus on what other people in the labor class are getting but shouldn't get is just ridiculous and unseemly.

The fuck has Henry done now ?

Unseemly 

[Dave McCoy]

The fuck has Henry done now ?

Unseemly 

What do you mean?  It was only some months ago LFC applied for the furlough scheme but then backed off it after public outcry.  Or did we just conveniently forget that?

[WhereAngelsPlay]

What do you mean?  It was only some months ago LFC applied for the furlough scheme but then backed off it after public outcry.  Or did we just conveniently forget that?

So we didn't go through with it & it was months ago.

[Dave McCoy]

So we didn't go through with it & it was months ago.

So because public outcry made John Henry in theory dip into his own pocket (though I'm sure we'll come to find out he didn't) then UK journos slagging off Ozil wages vis-a-vis staff layoffs is ok?  I wasn't singling out JWH in particular but just saying owners in general as they're all the same to a certain degree.

[The North Bank]

In reality a lot of fans would back a bigger investment in the team ahead of keeping people in jobs that market forces have decided don’t need to exist anymore. A proper club shouldn’t waste people’s money anywhere, on the field or if it.
Football is not cheap, I wouldn’t want to be paying wages for someone to sit at home, whether it’s a player or badly paid staff.

[No666]

Ornstein says the players are furious because they agreed their pay reduction on the promise no one would lose their job.

[Oskar]

Nick Ames
@NickAmes82
·
8m
Departures of Cagigao, McDermott & Clark were indeed the tip of the iceberg. Senior scouts covering France/Belgium, Spain, Italy and Germany have also been told by Arsenal that they are no longer needed today. #AFC

Who needs a scouting network when you have an agent who can deliver David Luiz and Willian?

[Dull Tools]

Who needs a scouting network when you have an agent who can deliver David Luiz and Willian?

Don't forget Cedric Soares and Mari.

[Morgana]

Seeing reports popping up in the media that Aubameyang is waiting on Barcelona to make him an offer. Wonder how much truth is in that rumour, and also why he would abandon a promising project at Arsenal to get aboard that sinking ship.

[El Lobo]

Seeing reports popping up in the media that Aubameyang is waiting on Barcelona to make him an offer. Wonder how much truth is in that rumour, and also why he would abandon a promising project at Arsenal to get aboard that sinking ship.

Perennial CL qualifying and league title challenging Barcelona, as opposed to the promising project of the team who just finished 8th between Wolves and Sheffield United....? It’s not exactly Henry leaving a great team in the mid 00s is it.

[ljycb]

The amount of UK based journos going off on Arsenal today by highlighting Ozil or Willian contracts is just garbage.  First, nobody is paying to go see the ground crew or other support staff at the Emirates, Old Trafford of Anfield.  If there were no players then none of those people would have jobs to begin with.  Second, whether it's Tottenham, Arsenal or LFC these are the choices of their owners which are all worth billions which is generally a hundred times more than any player.  Any ire should be directed at Stan Kroenke, Joe Lewis, John Henry, etc etc.  To then focus on what other people in the labor class are getting but shouldn't get is just ridiculous and unseemly.

Spot on.

[Garrus]

Who needs a scouting network when you have an agent who can deliver David Luiz and Willian?

They're going to be in real trouble once these agent led deals start to leave a foul stench.

Just foolish for a club in transition to reduce their chances of finding a diamond in the rough. They're going to have to rebuild these networks anyway once Sanllehi signs a few duds too many. Very short sighted thinking.

[kloppagetime]

If they get Gabriel they will get 3rd ahead of United and Chelsea next season. Arteta is classes above Ole and Lampard and with Gabriel and Saliba they will have two excellent centre backs in their side.

[Welshred]

The Angel Gabriel?

[Morgana]

Perennial CL qualifying and league title challenging Barcelona, as opposed to the promising project of the team who just finished 8th between Wolves and Sheffield United....? It’s not exactly Henry leaving a great team in the mid 00s is it.

Barcelona are broke. Even if they spunk a fortune bringing Aubameyang in, what do they do next? Is he going to play defence for them too? That side is winning nothing for the next few years. Atletico, Real and Valencia will share the cups and the league. Gone are the days when Messi could dig them out of whatever hole. I wouldn't touch Barcelona right now with a ten foot pole.

[Samie]

Lol our Brazil scout has done nothing. The man is living it large on the beaches of Rio. 

[Nobby Reserve]

The amount of UK based journos going off on Arsenal today by highlighting Ozil or Willian contracts is just garbage.  First, nobody is paying to go see the ground crew or other support staff at the Emirates, Old Trafford of Anfield.  If there were no players then none of those people would have jobs to begin with.  Second, whether it's Tottenham, Arsenal or LFC these are the choices of their owners which are all worth billions which is generally a hundred times more than any player.  Any ire should be directed at Stan Kroenke, Joe Lewis, John Henry, etc etc.  To then focus on what other people in the labor class are getting but shouldn't get is just ridiculous and unseemly.

If Arsenal plead poverty and dump staff on the employment scrapheap, then go spend £tens-of-millions in transfer fees, then I think from a moral perspective, people have every right to point the finger of criticism.

[Dull Tools]

It is disgusting behaviour from the owners. None of this is down to Ozil. He wanted reassurance of where his money would be going if he was to cut his wage and got no assurances there would be no job cuts anyway. Seems he was right.

Also, these people have all been made redundant which means that the company feels their roles aren't needed any more. How can they prove they basically don't need any scouts? It means they can't hire people in similar roles in the near future. Bizarre.

[LovelyCushionedHeader]

I'd be pretty terrified if I was an Arsenal fan right now. There were already stories of Kia Joorabchian basically running their recruitment process, and now they've sacked their scouts... Need a left back? Don't worry about scouting or analytics or anything like that, lets just look through a list of players this shady agent has on his books!

In reality a lot of fans would back a bigger investment in the team ahead of keeping people in jobs that market forces have decided don’t need to exist anymore. A proper club shouldn’t waste people’s money anywhere, on the field or if it.
Football is not cheap, I wouldn’t want to be paying wages for someone to sit at home, whether it’s a player or badly paid staff.

It's not just jobs that market forces have decided don't need to exist anymore though is it? Also, for those that aren't needed right now, it's not like they're sitting at home through choice. There are clearly extenuating circumstances, and if we're talking about stewards or food vendors then they're going to be needed again in the future. So personally, I would want my billionaire owner to pay for the minimum wage of someone sitting at home and if they say they cannot, I wouldn't want him then giving Willian god knows how many millions over the next three years.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

Torygraph reporting Auba is close to signing a new 3 year deal

[Samie]

He has to be getting Ozil money otherwise he'd be off.

[El Lobo]

Barcelona are broke. Even if they spunk a fortune bringing Aubameyang in, what do they do next? Is he going to play defence for them too? That side is winning nothing for the next few years. Atletico, Real and Valencia will share the cups and the league. Gone are the days when Messi could dig them out of whatever hole. I wouldn't touch Barcelona right now with a ten foot pole.

Who cares? He’s probably still just about in his prime. Barca still have top class players all over the pitch, they’re not just going to drop away. I very much doubt they’d sign him anyway but if it was a choice between the two at his age you’d choose Barca all day long.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

Barcelona are broke. Even if they spunk a fortune bringing Aubameyang in, what do they do next? Is he going to play defence for them too? That side is winning nothing for the next few years. Atletico, Real and Valencia will share the cups and the league. Gone are the days when Messi could dig them out of whatever hole. I wouldn't touch Barcelona right now with a ten foot pole.

Valencia?? Hhaha. Valencia are winning fuck all. Particularly after their current fire sale.

[rafathegaffa83]

Who needs a scouting network when you have an agent who can deliver David Luiz and Willian?

According to Ornstein the departures are largely in commercial and admin roles. It is ten percent of their full time and permanent non-playing staff. They've also eliminated certain perks (season tickets) and lowered pension contributions. The players are said to be pissed after taking a paycut. Nearly a quarter of Arsenal's overall revenue comes from matchday income (highest in the league)

On the football side they are losing

- The three most senior personnel in their scouting department including Head of International Scouting and Head of UK Scouting
- International scouts covering France, Belgium, Ireland, Germany, Austria, Holland, Italy, Switzerland, Spain and Portugal
- UK scouts for the north west, north east, Midlands and Scotland
- First-team rehab coordinator

According to Ornstein, a lot of the scouts were consultants so they are outside of the 55 redundancies

[Bullet500]

In reality a lot of fans would back a bigger investment in the team ahead of keeping people in jobs that market forces have decided don’t need to exist anymore. A proper club shouldn’t waste people’s money anywhere, on the field or if it.
Football is not cheap, I wouldn’t want to be paying wages for someone to sit at home, whether it’s a player or badly paid staff.

The timing is bad and it's petty.

[Goalposts for Jumpers]

According to Ornstein the departures are largely in commercial and admin roles. It is ten percent of their full time and permanent non-playing staff. They've also eliminated certain perks (season tickets) and lowered pension contributions. The players are said to be pissed after taking a paycut. Nearly a quarter of Arsenal's overall revenue comes from matchday income (highest in the league)

On the football side they are losing

- The three most senior personnel in their scouting department including Head of International Scouting and Head of UK Scouting
- International scouts covering France, Belgium, Ireland, Germany, Austria, Holland, Italy, Switzerland, Spain and Portugal
- UK scouts for the north west, north east, Midlands and Scotland
- First-team rehab coordinator

According to Ornstein, a lot of the scouts were consultants so they are outside of the 55 redundancies

When your scouts recommend you Xhaka, Mustafi, Holding, Sokratis, Kolasinac, Luiz, Mikiryan, and Pepe Le Pew for £75m, you might actually be better off buying this database for about £40: 

[The North Bank]

Not being funny but if these scouts were any good, no way would the club get rid of them, and no way we’d have finished 8th.
I’m all for getting rid of a losing team, it wasn’t all on wenger and emery. Arteta is restructuring a lot at the club and I’m all for it.
As for the admin and commercial staff, once the furlough period ends they’ll be among millions out of work. That’s the economic reality post covid19.

[Hij]

Not being funny but if these scouts were any good, no way would the club get rid of them, and no way we’d have finished 8th.
I’m all for getting rid of a losing team, it wasn’t all on wenger and emery. Arteta is restructuring a lot at the club and I’m all for it.
As for the admin and commercial staff, once the furlough period ends they’ll be among millions out of work. That’s the economic reality post covid19.

I think there is a clear balance between remaining 'competitive' and bringing in that extra player that may take you over the line and being frugal and saving jobs. Ultimately it's up to Arsenal if they think dispensing with 55 people who had jobs is worth a Willian this summer.

The money that goes on the 55 redundancies is likely to be dwarfed by that which goes out on the players which is what sticks in the craw a bit. Having said that I doubt you'll be the last to do this sort of thing and I understand it in the sense that Arsenal want to be the best they can be in sporting terms, on the pitch.

Could Arsenal exist without making people redundant? Probably, it's hardly being done to save the business when money is getting lashed out the other end almost immediately on transfers and wages. Many redundancies across the country will simply be to keep businesses afloat which is quite a difference in my eyes.

[The North Bank]

I think there is a clear balance between remaining 'competitive' and bringing in that extra player that may take you over the line and being frugal and saving jobs. Ultimately it's up to Arsenal if they think dispensing with 55 people who had jobs is worth a Willian this summer.

The money that goes on the 55 redundancies is likely to be dwarfed by that which goes out on the players which is what sticks in the craw a bit. Having said that I doubt you'll be the last to do this sort of thing and I understand it in the sense that Arsenal want to be the best they can be in sporting terms, on the pitch.

Could Arsenal exist without making people redundant? Probably, it's hardly being done to save the business when money is getting lashed out the other end almost immediately on transfers and wages. Many redundancies across the country will simply be to keep businesses afloat which is quite a difference in my eyes.

Unfortunately a lot of businesses will use covid19 as an excuse to get rid of people, to streamline their operations and put in place business plans that they have been forming for a long time.

If you work for a football club surely you should expect that things will go wrong at some stage, there is no loyalty in football, whether its players, managers, or staff.

[Iska]

Between this and the furlough scheme it’s really changed my view of football clubs as-a-business.  Now I see them as much more like a theatre or (for the big clubs) a movie studio - a relatively modest business buying players’ services and putting them together for a particular project.  Ed Woodward was mocked for saying it but they really are quite like Disney.

There was a traditional Marxist analysis upthread somewhere putting Willian and Ozil in the same working class as the 55 being made redundant here, but they’re really not in any meaningful sense.  If a football club is The Office, the players aren’t any of the characters, they’re the conglomerates supplying boatloads of materials in bulk, while Arsenal are putting a Wernham Hogg badge on the packaging and trying to skim a few pence off every pound.

[Skeeve]

Not being funny but if these scouts were any good, no way would the club get rid of them, and no way we’d have finished 8th.
I’m all for getting rid of a losing team, it wasn’t all on wenger and emery. Arteta is restructuring a lot at the club and I’m all for it.
As for the admin and commercial staff, once the furlough period ends they’ll be among millions out of work. That’s the economic reality post covid19.

While the scouts may not be good enough, they are not being sacked, they are being made redundant and you can't simply hire people to fill the exact same roles once you do that.

[Titanic Rising]

It's honestly pretty shameful the way the club have handled this, seemingly using the pandemic as an excuse to gut the scouting department—who needs scouts when you have Kia Joorabchian and his stable of average, aging players, I guess—and trying to emotionally manipulate the fans by insinuating 55 people losing their jobs is a necessity to bring on-field success.

Kroenke is a charlatan and it's been depressing seeing some fans look to defend a billionaire over this, when keeping the staff on the books would have cost him next to nothing. Ashamed of the club right now.

[Bullet500]

It's honestly pretty shameful the way the club have handled this, seemingly using the pandemic as an excuse to gut the scouting department—who needs scouts when you have Kia Joorabchian and his stable of average, aging players, I guess—and trying to emotionally manipulate the fans by insinuating 55 people losing their jobs is a necessity to bring on-field success.

Kroenke is a charlatan and it's been depressing seeing some fans look to defend a billionaire over this, when keeping the staff on the books would have cost him next to nothing. Ashamed of the club right now.

I agree!

[The North Bank]

Usmanov wouldn’t have sacked anyone, but people protested because the Americans are decent people and we don’t want to be owned by an oligarch.
Enjoy the decent owners.
Having said that, football clubs make people redundant all the time, no one gets a lifetime job at a football club. Arsenal’s fault is trying to spin it as if it’s evidence of a football revolution and a new direction a few days after winning the cup.

[Drinks Sangria]

Having said that, football clubs make people redundant all the time, no one gets a lifetime job at a football club. Arsenal’s fault is trying to spin it as if it’s evidence of a football revolution and a new direction a few days after winning the cup.

That’s not a justification. Let’s not pretend they’re Crewe Alexandra or Newport County. At the end of the day Arsenal will likely pay enough in agent fees alone this summer to cover the combined annual salaries of all the admin staff and second line support staff, aka normal people, that they’ve made redundant.

[ScottishGoon]

That’s not a justification. Let’s not pretend they’re Crewe Alexandra or Newport County. At the end of the day Arsenal will likely pay enough in agent fees alone this summer to cover the combined annual salaries of all the admin staff and second line support staff, aka normal people, that they’ve made redundant.

It's not great PR at all, but perhaps they've just did a business review and realised that actually they are overstaffed for how they are running or look to run in the future. I seen a tweet regarding Non Playing staff numbers, Non-football related staff per club according to last accounts, now I'm not sure how accurate it is, and of course it depends on how accounts are reported but according to it Arsenal still employ way more non playing staff than the like of Spurs & Chelsea even though they've been taken over in revenue by them. Swiss Ramble done an analysis of Arsenal's accounts and they stand to lose over £120M in revenue if matches are played behind closed doors until the end of the calender year, that's massive.

No one wants to see job losses whatsoever, and if the players were promised that their would be no losses then they are quite right to be upset & questions asked. It's perhaps the way they have went about this that seems a bit more underhand & lacking a bit of empathy that's most worrying, that's where I worry about the leadership of the club going forward. Of course, in an ideal world your Billionaire owner would come in & offer to cover these jobs etc, but the reality is that he isn't actually as invested in terms of level of care that some other club owners have for their staff, which is more the norm on businesses in general unfortunately.

I think you need to separate it from the transfer business though. The bad PR is that this happens in a week where Willian is offered a big contract & Auba looks set to sign his. But the club will look to recoup coop this outlay by trading. They will actively look to get the likes of Sokratis, Kolasniac, Ozil, Guendouzi, Mustafi, Elneny, Mkhitaryan off the wage bill, and will be willing to listen to offers for the likes of Maitland-Niles, Torriera, Holding & Lacazette. So it's not like they are just going on a big spending spree without any consequences. I wouldn't be surprised if the end up with a small net spend or even a profit on transfer fees & wages by the time the window shuts.