Author Topic: Chelsea - schooled by Liverpool's kids  (Read 191332 times)

Offline stockdam

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Re: Chelsea - The Saudi money is just RESTING in Todd Boehly's Account
« Reply #360 on: August 16, 2023, 06:39:29 pm »

For FFP purposes it makes sense, at least in the short term. Mount is home grown, so his sale is 100% profit this year.
With purchases spread over 5 years, essentially his 60m sale balances 300m of purchases this summer.

Obviously that's only this year though. Next year you'd have to find another way of balancing the 60m amortisation from purchases this year.
Possibly the plan is to buy multiple players and sell off the ones that don't work, with the assumption that continuing inflation in transfer prices will offset any decline in their real value. If that is the plan though, they may find players with 6/7 years still left on their contract aren't that bothered about moving on.


I think 5 year amortisation is for UEFA but I don’t believe that the FA have consolidated that rule yet but are considering it. Somebody may confirm or correct me.
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Re: Chelsea - The Saudi money is just RESTING in Todd Boehly's Account
« Reply #361 on: August 16, 2023, 07:02:49 pm »
For what it's worth I've generally agreed with you regarding LFC's ownership the past few years. But I really feel you're trying too hard to talk up Chelsea's model here.

For all that they've used their Academy as an industrial talent factory since the mid 2000s, they've still run enormous losses through much of that time. Until 2013, their losses were gigantic. Between 2013-2018, they were more break even, but recently their books are shit again. For example, the two most recent sets of accounts saw losses of £153m and £121m. Last accounts before covid was also a £100m loss.

I just mean, it's all well and good to say they can sell young players, as though that's going to balance things, when it was hardly working before (not without an oligarch to prop them up at least). And now they're spending at a ridiculous, unprecedented level, even by their standards.

Still don't see it myself.

I am not talking up the Chelsea model I think it is a reckless gamble. Where I disagree with people is that I don't think it is Saudi sportswashing and I don't think it is necessarily doomed to failure.

People talk about Abramovich as if he was someone content to throw money away to back Chelsea. The headline was that under Abramovich that Chelsea lost 900k a week for 19 years. What they fail to mention is that the value of Chelsea over that time went up by £2.36m a week.

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Offline decosabute

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Re: Chelsea - The Saudi money is just RESTING in Todd Boehly's Account
« Reply #362 on: August 16, 2023, 07:40:29 pm »
I am not talking up the Chelsea model I think it is a reckless gamble. Where I disagree with people is that I don't think it is Saudi sportswashing and I don't think it is necessarily doomed to failure.

People talk about Abramovich as if he was someone content to throw money away to back Chelsea. The headline was that under Abramovich that Chelsea lost 900k a week for 19 years. What they fail to mention is that the value of Chelsea over that time went up by £2.36m a week.

When it comes to the whole thing paying off for Boehly et al., then you may well be right - it might be that keeping Chelsea in the elite ends up profitable for the owners in the long term if club valuations continue to climb.

Where I don't see the wisdom in it is how they can avoid getting swamped in losses and falling foul of regulations. I guess whether that even matters depends on the authorities. Do they bother to do anything to protect the competitive landscape, or do they continue to just allow sportswashers and cowboys to run roughshod over the rules?

Offline norecat

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Re: Chelsea - The Saudi money is just RESTING in Todd Boehly's Account
« Reply #363 on: August 16, 2023, 11:21:12 pm »
The money Boehly has spent since taking over is eye watering. It's been a dramatic reshaping of the squad since he came in especially this summer. They've done well shipping players out.

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Re: Chelsea - The Saudi money is just RESTING in Todd Boehly's Account
« Reply #364 on: August 16, 2023, 11:23:20 pm »
The money Boehly has spent since taking over is eye watering. It's been a dramatic reshaping of the squad since he came in especially this summer. They've done well shipping players out.

Reshaping the squad to what though? A couple of players aside, it's still largely shite.
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Re: Chelsea - The Saudi money is just RESTING in Todd Boehly's Account
« Reply #365 on: August 17, 2023, 12:36:38 am »
Reshaping the squad to what though? A couple of players aside, it's still largely shite.

I think it has a good base of youth, which is clearly a big part of their model.

Where it seems completely misguided and misjudged on the part of whomever is directing their recruitment is that they seem to have too heavily discounted the importance of scoring goals in building a squad.  You see this both in the lack of quality in those areas, but also the fact that they are so willing to spend the bulk of their money on midfielders - defensive ones at that. 

Utd last season were a rare example of a team that scored very few goals and managed to finish top 4.  I don't think you will get away with that this season.  So how they achieve top 4 without goal scorers seems a real gamble and if they're not finishing top 4 they won't have the budget to spend on quality goal scorers.  It's a real pickle.

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Re: Chelsea - The Saudi money is just RESTING in Todd Boehly's Account
« Reply #366 on: August 17, 2023, 01:43:19 am »
The interesting part of Chelsea's long contract strategy is that while it is risky when it comes to poor performers, if the market continues to heat up those salaries probably won't look as bad in three or four years' time. In theory, it means locking in promising young players to those wages for the peak of their careers. But you need most of them to perform or you're screwed long term. The best you can hope for is a small loan fee to offset those big transfer fees.

But what kills me about Chelsea is their continuing strategy of using the academy as a sales cash cow when it could be such a cost effective way to build their squad long term. They could have had Mount, Rice, Tomori, Guehi, Musiala, Abraham, Lamptey and Livramento in the squad alongside James, Colwill, Broja and Gallagher. Instead, they've sold them off early and got in vastly more expensive players who've performed worse while letting the two best players in that group slip through their fingers before reaching senior level. At least when Man City do it, they buy well at the top end.

Offline latortuga

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Re: Chelsea - The Saudi money is just RESTING in Todd Boehly's Account
« Reply #367 on: August 17, 2023, 02:45:59 am »
The interesting part of Chelsea's long contract strategy is that while it is risky when it comes to poor performers, if the market continues to heat up those salaries probably won't look as bad in three or four years' time. In theory, it means locking in promising young players to those wages for the peak of their careers. But you need most of them to perform or you're screwed long term. The best you can hope for is a small loan fee to offset those big transfer fees.

But what kills me about Chelsea is their continuing strategy of using the academy as a sales cash cow when it could be such a cost effective way to build their squad long term. They could have had Mount, Rice, Tomori, Guehi, Musiala, Abraham, Lamptey and Livramento in the squad alongside James, Colwill, Broja and Gallagher. Instead, they've sold them off early and got in vastly more expensive players who've performed worse while letting the two best players in that group slip through their fingers before reaching senior level. At least when Man City do it, they buy well at the top end.

I think you're bending the truth a little to fit the narrative.

If we're in agreeance that the 2 best players from that group are Rice and Musiala - hard to argue otherwise - then we're talking about players that left Chelsea at 14 and 16 years respectively.  Rice I believe was released and Musiala has a clear affinity for all things German so wanted to join Bayern Munich's youth setup.  So in both cases there was little that Chelsea could do.

The rest of that bunch are all mid table players at best and I can't really see how letting them go has cost Chelsea in any significant way. 

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Re: Chelsea - The Saudi money is just RESTING in Todd Boehly's Account
« Reply #368 on: August 17, 2023, 04:30:17 am »
The problem with chelsea giving 8 year contracts will be motivation. None of their signings are the finished articles, and none of them ever need to be, they dont have to play for the next contract or the one after that. All they need to do, is enjoy their money.

Offline farawayred

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Re: Chelsea - The Saudi money is just RESTING in Todd Boehly's Account
« Reply #369 on: August 17, 2023, 05:12:48 am »
Chelsea 2023/24 season



Are the rest on vacation still, injured, or loaned?
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Re: Chelsea - The Saudi money is just RESTING in Todd Boehly's Account
« Reply #370 on: August 17, 2023, 05:14:52 am »
The problem with chelsea giving 8 year contracts will be motivation. None of their signings are the finished articles, and none of them ever need to be, they dont have to play for the next contract or the one after that. All they need to do, is enjoy their money.
Said the same thing a few times. There is no motivation. E.g., Caicedo signing a 8-9 year contract until he's 30; retirement is what I call it.
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Offline harleydanger

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Re: Chelsea - The Saudi money is just RESTING in Todd Boehly's Account
« Reply #371 on: August 17, 2023, 05:43:12 am »
a lot of people are more obsessed with transfers and point scoring over them than with success on the field.

we saw the same thing with everton before. they pandered to their fan base transfer obsession, about signing "names" andt "winning the transfer window" and look what mess theyre in now.

what chelsea are doing isnt sustainable and itll bite them in the arse before long

What Chelsea are doing is setting up a talent pipeline to Saudi Arabia. That’s what the 9year contracts are about.
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Re: Chelsea - The Saudi money is just RESTING in Todd Boehly's Account
« Reply #372 on: August 17, 2023, 07:14:06 am »
What Chelsea are doing is setting up a talent pipeline to Saudi Arabia. That’s what the 9year contracts are about.

So they signed Caicedo on an eight-year contract to send him later to the Saudis along with Mudryk, Enzo and others who also were signed long term contracts ? how does this even make sense.


Not all Americans owners are cheap, some of them will invest and we know for a fact that one of the terms of the sale is that they have to invest more than 1.5b , clearly they are using some of this money.
The long term contracts because of amortisation. They found a loophole to avoid punishments. UEFA patched it, the Premier League still didn't.

The funny thing is that who helped Chelsea the most are Man United and Arsenal and who helped us the most are the Saudis. Boehly just like FSG before him believes football will change to be like sports on the US and there is a lot of profit to be made and untapped revenue streams yet to be explored and later also like FSG he will realize it won't happen and give up and maybe his gamble will backfire early before that.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2023, 07:16:23 am by Egyptian36 »

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Re: Chelsea - The Saudi money is just RESTING in Todd Boehly's Account
« Reply #373 on: August 17, 2023, 09:12:15 am »
They're doing a Ridsdale. Betting the farm on future success. It didn't work for Leeds in the end and I'm not sure it will work for Chelsea. Chelsea's gamble depends on them winning Leagues, European Cups and massively increasing their off-field revenues before the shit hits the fan. But they aren't in a farmer's league or two-team league - the possible challengers for the trophies and top four include Man City, Newcastle (in coming years), Liverpool, Man United & Arsenal.

When Mourinho took over in 2004-05 Chelsea already had a good team and half a billion made a huge difference against the rest of the league. The advantage this time is far less, paartly because they've pissed away large parts of their latest splurge on players that aren't worth the money spent.

I hope they crash and burn but with Pochettino and some decent players they'll do ok for a while. Whether it's enough to justify the outlay is debatable.

I think it is partly an extension of their player leasing business, which has been in operation since Abramovich took over.
Look at the promising young players they have bought up or in the case of English players signed up for their academy U21, and then loaned/leased out.
Salah KDB, Tammy Abrahams, Billy Gilmour, Gallagher, etc.
All have been loaned out and/or sold on, many with little experience playing for Chelsea, swept up with big wages and a promise, and then benched as more expensive and experienced players were brought in. Leased out they paid for themselves and then sold on for profit.
It’s like a teacher or nurse supply agency.
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Offline Eeyore

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Re: Chelsea - The Saudi money is just RESTING in Todd Boehly's Account
« Reply #374 on: August 17, 2023, 10:20:22 am »
The problem with chelsea giving 8 year contracts will be motivation. None of their signings are the finished articles, and none of them ever need to be, they dont have to play for the next contract or the one after that. All they need to do, is enjoy their money.
Said the same thing a few times. There is no motivation. E.g., Caicedo signing a 8-9 year contract until he's 30; retirement is what I call it.

We have given Nunez a 6 year deal and Gakpo a 5 and a half year deal. Do you think they lack motivation?
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Re: Chelsea - The Saudi money is just RESTING in Todd Boehly's Account
« Reply #375 on: August 17, 2023, 10:54:37 am »
9 is more than both 5.5 and 6, I think.
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Re: Chelsea - The Saudi money is just RESTING in Todd Boehly's Account
« Reply #376 on: August 17, 2023, 10:59:48 am »

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Re: Chelsea - The Saudi money is just RESTING in Todd Boehly's Account
« Reply #377 on: August 17, 2023, 12:38:33 pm »
Hands up those who have heard of their 18-year-old LB Lewis Hall?

The club formerly known as Newcastle are buying him for 28 million pounds
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Re: Chelsea - The Saudi money is just RESTING in Todd Boehly's Account
« Reply #378 on: August 17, 2023, 12:51:35 pm »
Hands up those who have heard of their 18-year-old LB Lewis Hall?

The club formerly known as Newcastle are buying him for 28 million pounds

He played against us on the 0-0 at Anfield last season. And a few games around that time. I remember at the time think who the hell is dat though.

Offline The G in Gerrard

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Re: Chelsea - The Saudi money is just RESTING in Todd Boehly's Account
« Reply #379 on: August 17, 2023, 12:52:51 pm »
Thought they were getting rid of Cucarella? Guess selling Hall would help their accounts more.

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Re: Chelsea - The Saudi money is just RESTING in Todd Boehly's Account
« Reply #380 on: August 17, 2023, 12:57:48 pm »
Thought they were getting rid of Cucarella? Guess selling Hall would help their accounts more.

They need to loan Cucurella out for a year or two - then offload him to Saudi to make it worthwhile. Hall is pure profit straight on the books.
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Offline Garlicbread

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Re: Chelsea - The Saudi money is just RESTING in Todd Boehly's Account
« Reply #381 on: August 17, 2023, 01:23:00 pm »
Exclusive: Chelsea captain Reece James has picked up a fresh hamstring injury. Due for scan later on today. #CFC

https://twitter.com/NathGissing/status/1692146239305908246

Made out of glass this fella.

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Re: Chelsea - The Saudi money is just RESTING in Todd Boehly's Account
« Reply #382 on: August 17, 2023, 01:23:21 pm »
Apparently Reece James has picked up a hamstring injury again.

Edit: Got beat to it  ;D

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Re: Chelsea - The Saudi money is just RESTING in Todd Boehly's Account
« Reply #383 on: August 17, 2023, 01:28:26 pm »
Fair play to Olise. Can't tempt everyone with a shit ton of money you wankers.

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Re: Chelsea - The Saudi money is just RESTING in Todd Boehly's Account
« Reply #384 on: August 17, 2023, 01:35:23 pm »
Fair play to Olise. Can't tempt everyone with a shit ton of money you wankers.

He's turned them down?
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Re: Chelsea - The Saudi money is just RESTING in Todd Boehly's Account
« Reply #385 on: August 17, 2023, 01:39:07 pm »
How big is that dressing room extension that they built last season? Think they might need to extend the extension at this rate.

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Re: Chelsea - The Saudi money is just RESTING in Todd Boehly's Account
« Reply #386 on: August 17, 2023, 01:40:54 pm »
Exclusive: Chelsea captain Reece James has picked up a fresh hamstring injury. Due for scan later on today. #CFC

https://twitter.com/NathGissing/status/1692146239305908246

Made out of glass this fella.

He just can't stop eating. Worse than Luke Shaw.
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Re: Chelsea - The Saudi money is just RESTING in Todd Boehly's Account
« Reply #388 on: August 17, 2023, 03:28:05 pm »
Exclusive: Chelsea captain Reece James has picked up a fresh hamstring injury. Due for scan later on today. #CFC

https://twitter.com/NathGissing/status/1692146239305908246

Made out of glass this fella.

I hear Caicedo has some history at right back!
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Re: Chelsea - The Saudi money is just RESTING in Todd Boehly's Account
« Reply #390 on: August 17, 2023, 05:01:27 pm »
It’s a nice story until he joins them for £60m next summer. ;)

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Re: Chelsea - The Saudi money is just RESTING in Todd Boehly's Account
« Reply #391 on: August 17, 2023, 10:34:32 pm »
Hands up those who have heard of their 18-year-old LB Lewis Hall?

The club formerly known as Newcastle are buying him for 28 million pounds

He's not a bad player, and he got quite a few games last season. But that fee is straight-up bullshit. Saudis helping Saudis?

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Re: Chelsea - The Saudi money is just RESTING in Todd Boehly's Account
« Reply #392 on: August 17, 2023, 10:35:49 pm »
Exclusive: Chelsea captain Reece James has picked up a fresh hamstring injury. Due for scan later on today. #CFC

https://twitter.com/NathGissing/status/1692146239305908246

Made out of glass this fella.

I know it's not nice to wish injuries on other players, and I don't have much against James personally, but fuck this gang of fake shitbags.

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Re: Chelsea - The Saudi money is just RESTING in Todd Boehly's Account
« Reply #393 on: August 17, 2023, 10:38:34 pm »
Exclusive: Chelsea captain Reece James has picked up a fresh hamstring injury. Due for scan later on today. #CFC

https://twitter.com/NathGissing/status/1692146239305908246

Made out of glass this fella.

He’s so injury prone.

He seems very bulky for a right back too but remains quick.
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Offline Black Bull Nova

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Re: Chelsea - The Saudi money is just RESTING in Todd Boehly's Account
« Reply #394 on: August 17, 2023, 11:17:46 pm »
What I don't understand about Amortisation (and maybe one of our accountant colleagues can advise) is the example used by the BBC today
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66507341
"When a team sell a player, all of the profits go on to the accounts straight away. To use another example, Kai Havertz cost Chelsea £71m in 2020, which equates to £14m a year over his five-year contract. But when he was sold to Arsenal this summer for about £65m he had about £28.4m of value left on the books for the final two years of his contract, meaning the Blues could bank about 36.6m of 'profit'." 
To me, this makes no sense, Havertz cost £71m (which they have to pay regardless of how early they sell him). They sell him for £65m so to me that's a loss. I assume me the rest of the money they paid for him for years 4 and 5 are paid for out of the £65m which is where the £36.6 comes from. It just seems a recipe for both inflated markets and storing up problems when income and expenditure are treated differently and an accounting technique which has little merit when it distorts reality so much. I prefer to think of them paying out £42.6m over 3 years, getting £65m in and making therefore £22.4m.

Even then their income may not be cash and spread out over time and that does not seem to matter.
Why can't we have a simple sum, if they buy with cash it goes into that years balance sheet, if they buy on credit it's spread out, for both the buyer and the seller.



Or am I being thick (or uncreative)

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Offline Black Bull Nova

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Re: Chelsea - The Saudi money is just RESTING in Todd Boehly's Account
« Reply #395 on: August 17, 2023, 11:18:50 pm »
I know it's not nice to wish injuries on other players, and I don't have much against James personally, but fuck this gang of fake shitbags.
They can just go out and buy another one and put it on the tab
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Re: Chelsea - The Saudi money is just RESTING in Todd Boehly's Account
« Reply #396 on: August 17, 2023, 11:19:19 pm »
I hear Caicedo has some history at right back!

It would be fecking glorious if Gusto is considered a flop and Caicedo HAS to play RB for most of the season. And they finish 10th.
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Re: Chelsea - The Saudi money is just RESTING in Todd Boehly's Account
« Reply #397 on: August 17, 2023, 11:20:17 pm »
It would be fecking glorious if Gusto is considered a flop and Caicedo HAS to play RB for most of the season. And they finish 10th.
I'll bet Moises is made up if they make him play our of position, poor lad
aarf, aarf, aarf.

Offline the_red_pill

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Re: Chelsea - The Saudi money is just RESTING in Todd Boehly's Account
« Reply #398 on: August 17, 2023, 11:26:29 pm »
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12941726/michael-olise-crystal-palace-winger-signs-new-four-year-contract-after-chelsea-activated-35m-release-clause
Now there's a man of principle!
Re-signed as soon as the shite activated his clause. Almost like he recoiled in horror! ;D

I wish we made examples of people like this by giving them more media time.
"Some listen to understand. Others listen to respond."
"A fool does not delight in understanding, but only in revealing his own mind."
In such a sumptuous festival of shite, I wouldn't be so quick to pick a winner..

But he'd make the shortlist

Offline the_red_pill

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Re: Chelsea - The Saudi money is just RESTING in Todd Boehly's Account
« Reply #399 on: August 17, 2023, 11:29:50 pm »
What I don't understand about Amortisation (and maybe one of our accountant colleagues can advise) is the example used by the BBC today
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66507341
"When a team sell a player, all of the profits go on to the accounts straight away. To use another example, Kai Havertz cost Chelsea £71m in 2020, which equates to £14m a year over his five-year contract. But when he was sold to Arsenal this summer for about £65m he had about £28.4m of value left on the books for the final two years of his contract, meaning the Blues could bank about 36.6m of 'profit'." 
To me, this makes no sense, Havertz cost £71m (which they have to pay regardless of how early they sell him). They sell him for £65m so to me that's a loss. I assume me the rest of the money they paid for him for years 4 and 5 are paid for out of the £65m which is where the £36.6 comes from. It just seems a recipe for both inflated markets and storing up problems when income and expenditure are treated differently and an accounting technique which has little merit when it distorts reality so much. I prefer to think of them paying out £42.6m over 3 years, getting £65m in and making therefore £22.4m.

Even then their income may not be cash and spread out over time and that does not seem to matter.
Why can't we have a simple sum, if they buy with cash it goes into that years balance sheet, if they buy on credit it's spread out, for both the buyer and the seller.



Or am I being thick (or uncreative)
Struggling with that one as well.
Thank for asking mate.

All I can see here is "magic".
« Last Edit: August 17, 2023, 11:32:58 pm by the_red_pill »
"Some listen to understand. Others listen to respond."
"A fool does not delight in understanding, but only in revealing his own mind."
In such a sumptuous festival of shite, I wouldn't be so quick to pick a winner..

But he'd make the shortlist