Topic: Simon Mignolet

[Garstonite]

I don't know much about Achterberg to be fair, but didn't Reina's decline seem to coincide with the departure of Xavi Valero? I haven't seen all that much of Pepe at Napoli, but he seems to have improved and it's again no coincidence that Xavi Valero is there, surely?

[Welshred]

I don't know much about Achterberg to be fair, but didn't Reina's decline seem to coincide with the departure of Xavi Valero? I haven't seen all that much of Pepe at Napoli, but he seems to have improved and it's again no coincidence that Xavi Valero is there, surely?

That doesn't mean that Achterberg is a bad coach though does it? It just means that Pepe Reina is more suited to Xavi Valero's methods than anyone elses.

[PhaseOfPlay]

I don't know much about Achterberg to be fair, but didn't Reina's decline seem to coincide with the departure of Xavi Valero? I haven't seen all that much of Pepe at Napoli, but he seems to have improved and it's again no coincidence that Xavi Valero is there, surely?

But there was a coach in between the departure of Valero and the arrival promotion of Achterberg

[PhaseOfPlay]

Nope. They're thinking of Achterberg. He's been slated from hell to high water on here because he only played for Tranmere at a lower level and therefore people think he doesn't have the experience to coach footballers at this level. Which is absurd. From what I know Achterberg is quite highly rated as a coach in this country.

The irony being Valero played for Wrexham

[Garstonite]

That doesn't mean that Achterberg is a bad coach though does it? It just means that Pepe Reina is more suited to Xavi Valero's methods than anyone elses.

Hmmm. When you're investing £7m and god knows how much a week and have a proven example of a coach/player pairing very much working, what would you do if your new coach (on peanuts by comparison) isn't producing the same results? Try somebody new or blow £11m on another goalkeeper?

FWIW, I'm delighted with Mignolet. But I was delighted with Pepe Reina before somebody came whose methods didn't "suit him".

But there was a coach in between the departure of Valero and the arrival promotion of Achterberg

Yeah. And we fucked him off. Which was nice.

[Welshred]

Hmmm. When you're investing £7m and god knows how much a week and have a proven example of a coach/player pairing very much working, what would you do if your new coach (on peanuts by comparison) isn't producing the same results? Try somebody new or blow £11m on another goalkeeper?

FWIW, I'm delighted with Mignolet. But I was delighted with Pepe Reina before somebody came whose methods didn't "suit him".

Yeah. And we fucked him off. Which was nice.

That's fair enough. I think Pepe also became stale here. That happens. The problems might have been two way. Pepe might not have reacted to Achterberg's methods or he might have just needed a new challenge in his career. Sometimes that happens. We'll not know the actual answer to that for at least a year or two though, we have to wait and see whether Mignolet improves his game or he stagnates and goes backwards. If, and if he goes backwards, then you look at the goalkeeping coach. Then, and only then, will you have ammunition to fire in Achterberg's direction but not right now when people are only using his playing experience with Tranmere as the bullet to shoot him with.

[PhaseOfPlay]

Hmmm. When you're investing £7m and god knows how much a week and have a proven example of a coach/player pairing very much working, what would you do if your new coach (on peanuts by comparison) isn't producing the same results? Try somebody new or blow £11m on another goalkeeper?

But Mike Kelly was the keeper coach in between Valero and Achterberg, and that's probably where the damage was done.

Yeah. And we fucked him off. Which was nice.

Are you referring to Kelly?

[Garstonite]

But Mike Kelly was the keeper coach in between Valero and Achterberg, and that's probably where the damage was done.



Are you referring to Kelly?

I am.

But let's be honest, Kelly was here for, what? 7 months? (I assume he went at the same time as Hodgson?) Can you honestly irreversibly damage one of the best keepers in the world in that time? Who is he? King fucking MINDLESS? Everything he touches turns to shit?

If I accept that he can, can you accept that Xavi Valero can "fix" him in three then? Because by all accounts, he has. And what does that say for Achterberg?

[Welshred]

And what does that say for Achterberg?

You can't tell can you? It could speak volumes about Pepe too, you could question his commitment to a goalkeeping coach other than Valero? All I do know is that Kenny trusted him enough to promote him after seeing him work at the Academy and Rodgers has seen enough to trust him to keep him on as his goalkeeping coach. The time to judge is when Mignolet has had the chance to make improvements to his game.

[PhaseOfPlay]

I am.

But let's be honest, Kelly was here for, what? 7 months? (I assume he went at the same time as Hodgson?) Can you honestly irreversibly damage one of the best keepers in the world in that time? Who is he? King fucking MINDLESS? Everything he touches turns to shit?

Seeing how he is supposedly back on form, though, then the damage wasn't "irreversible". But yes, you CAN do that much damage in that short space of time. And Reina has had howlers this season for Napoli. His problem was almost certainly psychological, and probably took a change of environment to get him back on track. Reina's issues were that he was exposed, more than he was under Rafa. People want to have a go at Achterberg, but remember, he played his part in the defensive underperformance during Rafa's last season, when Valero was present. So do we blame Valero for that? Or, as is more likely, is it a case of a combination of factors, such as club turmoil, general defensive woes, and the bad defending put in front of him by Hodgson and not really recovered since? Valero and Ochoterena get the credit for his keeper stats, but he was also very well protected by Rafa's defensive coaching too.

If I accept that he can, can you accept that Xavi Valero can "fix" him in three then? Because by all accounts, he has. And what does that say for Achterberg?

Reina was still making mistakes this season. And it says nothing for Achterberg. Valero was also a scout, don't forget. Achterberg is a pure coach. The questions he should be judged on are actual technical aspects of goalkeeping, goalkeeping fitness, and positioning. The fact that Mignolet is having outstanding performances speaks as much to the positive of Achterberg as Reina's performances speaks to the apparent negatives, no?

[Paragon]

Michael Owen blamed Mignolet for Newcastle's opener but I disagree. Personally I think it was a terrific strike and there was nothing Mignolet could do. Another good performance for our new keeper today.

[Melbred]

There was no stopping that. He was unsighted for a second, and when the ball did it's own thing he had no chance.

[rob1408]

Michael Owen blamed Mignolet for Newcastle's opener but I disagree. Personally I think it was a terrific strike and there was nothing Mignolet could do. Another good performance for our new keeper today.

It was a horrible bounce and the ball moved all over the shop, I was more concerned with the amount of space we gave a player with a reputation for scoring from long range.

[Danny_]

It's the first goal that he probably should have kept out.  The ball moved viciously at the end of it but he still should be saving it.  He just didn't get his feet set in time to cover the whole goal. 

[Paragon]

There was no stopping that. He was unsighted for a second, and when the ball did it's own thing he had no chance.

It was a horrible bounce and the ball moved all over the shop, I was more concerned with the amount of space we gave a player with a reputation for scoring from long range.

Agreed.

[Cochise]

Feel because I've already said Mignolet doesn't fill me with confidence that shouldn't comment of Newcastles opener which he should have done better with. So I won't.

[Melbred]

Feel because I've already said Mignolet doesn't fill me with confidence that shouldn't comment of Newcastles opener which he should have done better with. So I won't.

You just did.

[Spanish Al]

Pepe would have thrown his hat on Cabaye's shot.

[muyuu]

Should have come back against a 10 man lower table side anyway.

[Samie]

Feel because I've already said Mignolet doesn't fill me with confidence that shouldn't comment of Newcastles opener which he should have done better with. So I won't.

 Pepe of the last  few seasons wouldn't have filled me with confidence saving that.  Mig has done well for us and won us points as well.  I agree thought he should've done better with the  shot too.

[sminp]

There was no stopping that. He was unsighted for a second, and when the ball did it's own thing he had no chance.

Absolutely, he didn't have a hope in hell. Michael Owen knows fuck all as I'm sure everyone already knew

[Cochise]

Pepe of the last  few seasons wouldn't have filled me with confidence saving that.  Mig has done well for us and won us points as well.  I agree thought he should've done better with the  shot too.

Why does Every Mignolet thread always have Pepe Reina in it? I'm talking about our current No.1 who does not fill me with confidence.

[The 1989 Brit Awards]

Why does Every Mignolet thread always have Pepe Reina in it? I'm talking about our current No.1 who does not fill me with confidence.

Probably because as soon as we were linked with Begovic and Mignolet, Reina's legion came about asking why the fuck where we selling him when he's so world class. And they remain so whenever Mignolet miss-kicks a clearance, and melancholically reminisce of Reina's clearances, as if looking at an ocean.

[jooneyisdagod]

Owen is an idiot. There was no stopping that. It was a sensational if speculative hit. The ball moved miles in the air and swerved like crazy. Sensational hit.

[Juan Loco]

You could write what Michael Owen knows about goalkeeping on the back of his European Cup winners medal.

[sparrowred]

You could write what Michael Owen knows about goalkeeping on the back of his European Cup winners medal.

He certainly knows how to be a fucking prick to them 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqOxNspUPyE

[Fauxy]

Why does Every Mignolet thread always have Pepe Reina in it? I'm talking about our current No.1 who does not fill me with confidence.

Well its to be expected since we are obviously gonna compare our new keeper to our old one.

And its nice to be constantly be reminded that hes better than Pepe and he was a boss signing.

[surfer. Fuck you generator.]

I don't know much about Achterberg to be fair, but didn't Reina's decline seem to coincide with the departure of Xavi Valero? I haven't seen all that much of Pepe at Napoli, but he seems to have improved and it's again no coincidence that Xavi Valero is there, surely?

Still early stages, but Pepe has looked very good in the past few games. He had one or two mistakes when starting out though. It'll take a run of a season or two before you could say he's consistently at a high level again.

I'm happy enough with Mignolet because whatever Pepe is going to do under the work of Rafa / Valero, Reina's had more than enough time to show that it was never going to happen at Liverpool. If he does come back, it's a matter of time before he drops his level again imo.

 

[Stanfo]

I'm not going to get into the pointless debate on which keeper is better as they are so different in style and indeed stage of their careers, however I have had personal experience of the coaching of both Achterberg and Valero, albeit his philosophy through other keeper coaches, through the time my lad was at Kirkby. I will qualify these comments by saying this was over 3 years ago so things may have changed.

Achterberg is a really nice fella who is obsessed with coaching, he used to be at either Melwood or the academy from early morning until 8 at night before he got the 1st team role. He was however a far more basic coach than those under Valero, his drills were more physical and at that time more old school. There was still an emphasis on footwork but nowhere near as much as under Valero's regime, or indeed Billy Stewart and Tim Dittmer before him at the academy.

I have said it many times before, I believe Valero was a far more intelligent coach with a philosophy on goalkeeping as good as any I have encountered at a number of academies. Maybe Achterberg's style of coaching is more suited to adults, I would imagine it is, however I could see an obvious difference in what both were about.

I know many on here will just generalise and say that keeping is just diving and keeping the ball out of the goal, but it really isn't and as I have found out over the last 8 years is one of the most complex positions in any team, mentally, physically, technically and tactically.

[rocco]

I don't know much about Achterberg to be fair, but didn't Reina's decline seem to coincide with the departure of Xavi Valero? I haven't seen all that much of Pepe at Napoli, but he seems to have improved and it's again no coincidence that Xavi Valero is there, surely?

agree 100% was saying the same for ages , at the time Valero was still in Liverpool looking for work .



Mignolet can't be blamed for the first goal yesterday was a excellent strike IMO , but worried about the amount of balls been hit long .

[Melbred]

agree 100% was saying the same for ages , at the time Valero was still in Liverpool looking for work .



Mignolet can't be blamed for the first goal yesterday was a excellent strike IMO , but worried about the amount of balls been hit long .

Clubs probably decided to test him after the Ki shot that he fumbled when he was unsighted. Can probably expect more of it after yesterday as well. It's essential now that work on our closing down of players, and not allow them so much space.

[Stanfo]

And just a quick response to those who will say, a coach is a coach, the relationship for a keeper and their coach is far more personal. Most coaching groups will have 2,3 or at max 4 keepers working with a coach and the session will inevitably be set up to the needs of the number 1 keeper, so the style of session and relationships that develop are far more important.

[Fordy]

Clearly Newcastle did their homework on him and feel he has a massive weakness with saving shots from long distance.

He doesn't get down quick enough.

[BassTunedToRed]

Unsighted yesterday?

[Twelfth Man]

Clearly Newcastle did their homework on him and feel he has a massive weakness with saving shots from long distance.

He doesn't get down quick enough.

Disagree, he has made some great long distance saves for us this season. Positioning could have been a touch better, further out and more towards the middle, but even then I doubt many keepers would have saved that shot.

[JackWard33]

Clearly Newcastle did their homework on him and feel he has a massive weakness with saving shots from long distance.

That's just unmitigated bollocks.
You take an exceptional event (a keeper being beaten by a long range strike) and argue backwards from it that it represents a typical outcome...and worse that it was preconceived by the opposition
Newcastle shoot from distance because they're a bad attacking team,they do it consistently it has absolutely nothing to do with Mignolet

[PhaseOfPlay]

That's just unmitigated bollocks.
You take an exceptional event (a keeper being beaten by a long range strike) and argue backwards from it that it represents a typical outcome...and worse that it was preconceived by the opposition
Newcastle shoot from distance because they're a bad attacking team,they do it consistently it has absolutely nothing to do with Mignolet

86% of their shots were from outside the box, so I think you're probably closer to the truth.

[John C]

Unsighted yesterday?

Absolute mate, it was unfortunate that he saw it very late and didn't have much of a chance to save it.

[elkun]

Can't believe that some here are questioning mignolet ability. The guy saved us alot of time and one of the reason why we are 3rd atm.

[Djimi Smicer34]

Clearly Newcastle did their homework on him and feel he has a massive weakness with saving shots from long distance.

He doesn't get down quick enough.

As per usual you're talking absolute rubbish.