Topic: Coates confirmed

[trenchtownrasta]

Remember when Agger signed? I don't think he was used consistently for a good year or so. They are about the same age, about the same price and probably will have a similar exposure to first team football.

[The 5th Benitle]

Are you saying we are dropping points because of Carra?

We have had, Arsenal away, Tottenham away, Stoke away, the Bitters-derby away, United at home as our fixture list. With a completely revamped team, I think we have done well by the way.

I'm saying we have, yes. Because we have.

[Carra-ton]

I'm saying we have, yes. Because we have.

Sorry, I don't follow your point.

[The 5th Benitle]

Sorry, I don't follow your point.

My point couldn't be clearer. Errors by Carra have cost us points this season. I don't understand how you could possibly dispute that.

[hassinator]

Are you saying we are dropping points because of Carra?

We have had, Arsenal away, Tottenham away, Stoke away, the Bitters-derby away, United at home as our fixture list. With a completely revamped team, I think we have done well by the way.

i'd say we've been dropping points specifically because of carragher for the last three seasons.

i'd say that the whole team would be more compact and play more effectively as a unit if we had a different centre half in there.

is that clear enough for you?

[hassinator]

Sorry, I don't follow your point.

hello?  do you speak english?

[Carra-ton]

My point couldn't be clearer. Errors by Carra have cost us points this season. I don't understand how you could possibly dispute that.

Because, I believe there were a couple of errors, but on the whole our defence is a lot better with Carra in it, which if he wasn't would have cost us more points instead.

[Carra-ton]

i'd say we've been dropping points specifically because of carragher for the last three seasons.

i'd say that the whole team would be more compact and play more effectively as a unit if we had a different centre half in there.

is that clear enough for you?

Well if you say so.

[The 5th Benitle]

Because, I believe there were a couple of errors, but on the whole our defence is a lot better with Carra in it, which if he wasn't would have cost us more points instead.

Bloody Hell. I understand what you're saying, but it's a massive stretch.

[Carra-ton]

Bloody Hell. I understand what you're saying, but it's a massive stretch.

I am all for replacing Carra if there was someone who was genuinely better that we had. I can't support replacing him with someone who isn't at the moment better than him. The whole culture has become, lets support the new kid, and lets diss the old guy. It should be on merit.

[hassinator]

Well if you say so.

i'm glad that's wrapped up then.

now back to coates and the future.

[hassinator]

I am all for replacing Carra

we also agree on this.

[Carra-ton]

i'm glad that's wrapped up then.

now back to coates and the future.

That is right, you finally got it, Coates is the "future"

[Camarero25]

I am all for replacing Carra if there was someone who was genuinely better that we had. I can't support replacing him with someone who isn't at the moment better than him. The whole culture has become, lets support the new kid, and lets diss the old guy. It should be on merit.

I'd say that both Skrtel and Agger have performed better than Carra over the last 6 months or so, but that's just my opinion.

[Carra-ton]

I'd say that both Skrtel and Agger have performed better than Carra over the last 6 months or so, but that's just my opinion.

Fair enough, but I would disagree about Skrtel.

[mutiman]

Excellent post. Sometimes I think we're in danger of stagnating because the past seems to have such a strong grip on the club. Carra's been great, but he's slowly but surely becoming of the glorious past. I've always wondered if we had got some of the players we've missed out on such as Cristiano Ronaldo and Phil Jones, whether they'd have developed as quickly as they have done at other clubs.

How is it disrespectful? He has done wonderful things in the past. He's spent his entire career here. He's won everything possible, but the league title and his achievements with the club all deserve to be remembered. But how is he different to all of our other great players who were all shown the door without hesitation when the time came, with many of them winning significantly more at the club.
Emlyn Hughes made way for Hansen as you have stated yourself, and there's not a single person in the world who will say that was the wrong decision, yet you have no problem claiming that Coates isn't anywhere near Hansen's ability despite having seen him play a grand total of 2 games for the club. Emlyn Hughes was a European Cup and league winning captain, who also captained England. He had over 600 games with the club and he was replaced by an 18 year old center back from the lower divisions.

Coates is already a league winning player, who most recently picked up a Copa America winners medal and in the mean time picked up the award for best young players and that's hardly a small thing, considering the wealth of talent that South-America has prodoced constantly since the the 1920's.
Hughes was replaced by a much younger, inexperienced player. Despite being more than 3 years younger at the time than Carragher is now. Carra is getting older and his performances have shown with an alarming frequency that his body can't handle playing week in week out. It's biologically inevitable and despite many claiming it, Carragher is not in the league of the Baresis, Maldinis, Nestas of the game in the way that he can play every game into his late 30's without breaking a sweat.
His game has never been about that. He'll take a bullet for you, and deserves credit for that. But his game is more sliding tackles and clearing off the line, playing with cramps in every muscle in his legs whilst preventing a shot. It's never been about seeing the play in front of him and intercepting a pass by making 2-3 side steps or winning the ball in his own box and running the length of the pitch into the opposition's box.

And why is it so dangerous replacing Carragher? We're dropping points with him in the team, we might drop a few more or we might gain a few more we'll never know until we actually do it. And as Yorky said earlier about Hansen.
At what point do Carragher's achievement stop covering for his current performances. We got rid of a 19 year old center back in Daniel Ayala who didn't make half the mistakes Carra has been making in the last 2 seasons. Sentiments and past achievements be damned. Do you honestly, deep down in the very deepest core of your soul, think that a 33 year old Jamie Carragher would start 90% of games for any other team hoping to challenge for trophies around Europe?

[hassinator]

That is right, you finally got it, Coates is the "future"

of that there is no doubt.  equally carragher is the past.

[farawayred]

How is it disrespectful? He has done wonderful things in the past. He's spent his entire career here. He's won everything possible, but the league title and his achievements with the club all deserve to be remembered. But how is he different to all of our other great players who were all shown the door without hesitation when the time came, with many of them winning significantly more at the club.
Emlyn Hughes made way for Hansen as you have stated yourself, and there's not a single person in the world who will say that was the wrong decision, yet you have no problem claiming that Coates isn't anywhere near Hansen's ability despite having seen him play a grand total of 2 games for the club. Emlyn Hughes was a European Cup and league winning captain, who also captained England. He had over 600 games with the club and he was replaced by an 18 year old center back from the lower divisions.

Coates is already a league winning player, who most recently picked up a Copa America winners medal and in the mean time picked up the award for best young players and that's hardly a small thing, considering the wealth of talent that South-America has prodoced constantly since the the 1920's.
Hughes was replaced by a much younger, inexperienced player. Despite being more than 3 years younger at the time than Carragher is now. Carra is getting older and his performances have shown with an alarming frequency that his body can't handle playing week in week out. It's biologically inevitable and despite many claiming it, Carragher is not in the league of the Baresis, Maldinis, Nestas of the game in the way that he can play every game into his late 30's without breaking a sweat.
His game has never been about that. He'll take a bullet for you, and deserves credit for that. But his game is more sliding tackles and clearing off the line, playing with cramps in every muscle in his legs whilst preventing a shot. It's never been about seeing the play in front of him and intercepting a pass by making 2-3 side steps or winning the ball in his own box and running the length of the pitch into the opposition's box.

And why is it so dangerous replacing Carragher? We're dropping points with him in the team, we might drop a few more or we might gain a few more we'll never know until we actually do it. And as Yorky said earlier about Hansen.
At what point do Carragher's achievement stop covering for his current performances. We got rid of a 19 year old center back in Daniel Ayala who didn't make half the mistakes Carra has been making in the last 2 seasons. Sentiments and past achievements be damned. Do you honestly, deep down in the very deepest core of your soul, think that a 33 year old Jamie Carragher would start 90% of games for any other team hoping to challenge for trophies around Europe?

Hats off to that post indeed!

[Alphaville]

Can we al least agree that this weekend's game is an ideal time to test the lad's mettle?  Norwich, with all due respect, don't have the most potent strike force in the league and we should be able to unlock their defence.  If they decide to play full-on defensively, then having Coates' giant frame on corners would certainly come in more handy than having Carra.   

I don't see what the downside would be.

[rawKBottom]

Its a real shame that we believe in Coates more than legendary Carra who has given his everything, and continuing to for this club. Maybe the time has come for Carra, maybe not, but I believe his distribution and organisation at the back is still one of the best in the world and the man's commitment is second to none. Coates should be given more opportunities alright, but next to Carra would be the way to go for the lad.

Carra is only human and might have committed errors, but who hasn't. Why not point Suarez when he missed a glorious one-on-one against United and a penalty against Sunderland which would have fetched us more points and higher position in the table. My point is not to corner Suarez or any of our players for that matter but to say that there got to be some respect shown for the legend and Carra is a thorough professional who will know when the time has come for him to call it a day.

I'm ready for the stick but sorry for having an opinion.
YNWA

[The 5th Benitle]

Coates should be given more opportunities alright, but next to Carra would be the way to go for the lad.

Just unbelievable. If Coates comes in, it will be to play with Agger.

[The 5th Benitle]

Carra is a thorough professional who will know when the time has come for him to call it a day.

You haven't read his autobiography then

[hassinator]

, but I believe his distribution at the back is still one of the best in the world

I'm ready for the stick but sorry for having an opinion.
YNWA

you're entitled to your opinion but this is quite simply ludicrous.

i like the way you attach YNWA like its the end of a suicide note.

[hassinator]

You haven't read his autobiography then

clearly not. 

[Chakan]

By distribution I assume you mean kicking it into the top tier, then yes 2nd to none.

[Carra-ton]

you're entitled to your opinion but this is quite simply ludicrous.

i like the way you attach YNWA like its the end of a suicide note.

Is that also not in style for you. Please give us the rules so we can decide and support the players you deem are worth supporting.

[rawKBottom]

you're entitled to your opinion but this is quite simply ludicrous.

i like the way you attach YNWA like its the end of a suicide note.

Wish I had a reason to continue with this, CHEERS mate.
YNWA, no suicide committed

[Camarero25]

Its a real shame that we believe in Coates more than legendary Carra who has given his everything, and continuing to for this club. Maybe the time has come for Carra, maybe not, but I believe his distribution and organisation at the back is still one of the best in the world and the man's commitment is second to none. Coates should be given more opportunities alright, but next to Carra would be the way to go for the lad.

Carra is only human and might have committed errors, but who hasn't. Why not point Suarez when he missed a glorious one-on-one against United and a penalty against Sunderland which would have fetched us more points and higher position in the table. My point is not to corner Suarez or any of our players for that matter but to say that there got to be some respect shown for the legend and Carra is a thorough professional who will know when the time has come for him to call it a day.

I'm ready for the stick but sorry for having an opinion.
YNWA

We should stick Kenny up front then, because he's a massive legend. As for Carra's distribution being "one of the best in the world", what are you on about? Most League 2 centre backs are better on the ball than Carra.

[The 5th Benitle]

you're entitled to your opinion but this is quite simply ludicrous.

I missed that bit. Has to be a joke, not even Carra's biggest fan would claim his distribution is good.

[Bullan]

Its a real shame that we believe in Coates more than legendary Carra who has given his everything, and continuing to for this club. Maybe the time has come for Carra, maybe not, but I believe his distribution and organisation at the back is still one of the best in the world and the man's commitment is second to none. Coates should be given more opportunities alright, but next to Carra would be the way to go for the lad.

Carra is only human and might have committed errors, but who hasn't. Why not point Suarez when he missed a glorious one-on-one against United and a penalty against Sunderland which would have fetched us more points and higher position in the table. My point is not to corner Suarez or any of our players for that matter but to say that there got to be some respect shown for the legend and Carra is a thorough professional who will know when the time has come for him to call it a day.

I'm ready for the stick but sorry for having an opinion.
YNWA

What an utter melodramatic post.

Where is the disrespect in discussing issues which are real and present with Carra?
Why the tearjerking post as if posters on here are discussing putting Carra down like some old dog?

The fact is that he is not getting any younger , and there will be a time for him to step aside for someone younger and better.
Ce'st la vie and all that , and giving him a rest against Norwich and or against Stoke hardly means au revoir for him...

[koptician]

I missed that bit. Has to be a joke, not even Carra's biggest fan would claim his distribution is good.

 

WUM, got to be!  Or a manc/toffee trolling

[rawKBottom]

WUM, got to be!  Or a manc/toffee trolling

 , if you say so.

[hassinator]

Is that also not in style for you. Please give us the rules so we can decide and support the players you deem are worth supporting.

are you annoyed that i've disagreed with you or annihilated your facile arguments?

[rawKBottom]

are you annoyed that i've disagreed with you or annihilated your facile arguments?

Boy, you seem to be caring an awful lot about others emotions. Relax Teresa.

[JHova2427]

Carra may be making mistakes and past it to a certain extent, but he has also had revolving doors of fullbacks and central defenders around him.  I wouldn't mind seeing a Skrtel-Agger partnership for a few games.  But our other central defenders apart from Agger don't instill much confidence in me either. 

Hopefully Coates can get his feet under him slowly and be a force that can pass out from defense and win headers on set pieces even if just because of his height.  I don't think he is near ready yet, but I would like to see him given a run out.

[hassinator]

Boy, you seem to be caring an awful lot about others emotions. Relax Teresa.

YNWA

[bigbear]

I think it is probably getting near the time for Carra to stand aside. The problem is nobody is knocking the door down consistently to challenge him.

How many times have Skrtel and Agger been fit together for a period of say 10 games in the last 2 years. Not too many I'd bet but that is what is needed but we can't rely on Agger to be there.

Skrtel probably has been better than Carra since Kenny came in but not by miles.

I truly hope Coates is the answer but just one correction to Aristotle's post on Hughes and Hansen which was well put together. Hansen was about 21 when he signed and didn't really become the fabulous player he was until about 23-24. I seem to recall he got caught dribbling in the 78 Euro Cup final and I think Tommo bailed him out and it wasn't until probably 80-81 that he became the Man.

[hassinator]

i wonder how many games he played before he became the dominant defender?

there is no doubt carragher has benefited from other players injuries in terms of his number of appearances.

because of this i can see us bringing in another defender in january.

i wonder if dortmund will be up for selling once they're out of the champions league?

[bigbear]

i wonder how many games he played before he became the dominant defender?

there is no doubt carragher has benefited from other players injuries in terms of his number of appearances.

because of this i can see us bringing in another defender in january.

i wonder if dortmund will be up for selling once they're out of the champions league?

At least 75-100 games.

I always thought Tommo was the leader of the defence and Hansen probably didn't really come to full error-free maturity until the Bayern Munich semi finals in 81 when he took care of Rummennigge in Munich with Colin Irwin playing next to him.

Don't get me wrong, he was class always but he would day dream sometimes and dilly dally whereas Tommo was barking at him not unlike Carragher does now.

[bigbear]

4 points already this year - very poor defending (not even including the actual penalty) vs Stoke, and letting Danny Wellbeck brush him aside like an afterthought, to win an uncontested header (leading to an assist) at the edge of the 6 yard box, vs. United. 

Then you have a gaffe against Bolton, penalty in the Carling Cup...and we haven't even discussed how our defense...and offense, have to accommodate his limitations

Besides, you can't know if our defense is better with or without Carragher, if we don't even have data to support the opposite!  (i.e., when have we played a game without Carragher starting?)

I think all of that is true. Carra got away with criticism for the Welbeck header but he's have bollocked someone backwards if it'd happened because of someone else.