Topic: Injury (and absence) related chat (so the news is kept in the other thread)

[Chris~]

we all enjoyed the contribution of course, it was a mad few months that will be forever remembered, but it’s not about Klopp ‘seeing something’ in him as much it was a case of needs must.

Since that run, he’s played what is it - 2 or 3 PL or CL games for Liverpool? They’ve tried to sell him last 2 windows now.  But seem to be holding out for a higher fee than teams have been willing to offer as is the club’s right.

But I wouldn’t be foold by nice words from Kloppo about him. It doesn’t mean he thinks he’s a great player and suited to this team. He isn’t.

Milner as right back to move Gomez back central is more likely to happen, as it should. Even with Milner’s limitations of course.

If this is the case then it was completely pointless and a fuck up by Klopp/recruitment keeping Phillips and stopping him leaving when Konate was injured in preseason.

[Red Bird]

Not sure Phillips at centre-half is worse than Milner at right back.

[Solomon Grundy]

Not sure Phillips at centre-half is worse than Milner at right back.

I hope we see neither today.

[El Lobo]

I do sometimes wonder if the £90,000 a week Phillips is on directly affected us being able to offer Sadio the contract he wanted

[keyop]

I do sometimes wonder if the £90,000 a week Phillips is on directly affected us being able to offer Sadio the contract he wanted

If you join the dots then everything links back to Lovren, who's sale was responsible for everything bad that's happened since (and that will ever happen in the future).

[El Lobo]

Maybe so but we’ve hardly helped ourselves making Nat Phillips our third highest earner

[BarryCrocker]

Maybe so but we’ve hardly helped ourselves making Nat Phillips our third highest earner

There's no chance he's on £90k per week. He's rumoured to be on £60k and that places him about 17th.

[El Lobo]

There's no chance he's on £90k per week. He's rumoured to be on £60k and that places him about 17th.

Which is the joke, because there’s no chance he’s on £60k a week either

[keyop]

Does anybody know of a site that tracks games missed on an aggregate level? I get that Transfermarkt shows games missed for the individual but would like to see how we compare vs other teams before making any overarching statements.

Might be too early in the season for anyone to have done the analysis, but I recall in 2020/21 we were double the next nearest team (Leicester) in terms of player games missed through injury.

Wouldn't surprise me if we're on a similar trajectory now. We've been hovering around 5-6 players out at any one time this season already (it was as high as 10 at one point), and most clubs have been around 1-3. We were actually as low as 3 players out injured (Ox, Keita, Ramsay), but that lasted only a few days.

I don't think there's any one factor causing it. It's likely a combination of injury prone players, our intensity, the sheer number of games, some bad luck, cumulative fatigue over the seasons, and the strenuous training required to get us to the levels we've achieved under Jurgen.

[So… Howard Philips]

Might be too early in the season for anyone to have done the analysis, but I recall in 2020/21 we were double the next nearest team (Leicester) in terms of player games missed through injury.

Wouldn't surprise me if we're on a similar trajectory now. We've been hovering around 5-6 players out at any one time this season already (it was as high as 10 at one point), and most clubs have been around 1-3. We were actually as low as 3 players out injured (Ox, Keita, Ramsay), but that lasted only a few days.

I don't think there's any one factor causing it. It's likely a combination of injury prone players, our intensity, the sheer number of games, some bad luck, cumulative fatigue over the seasons, and the strenuous training required to get us to the levels we've achieved under Jurgen.

I think 20/21 was skewed due to the centre back injuries though. This season is a different animal.

[keyop]

I think 20/21 was skewed due to the centre back injuries though. This season is a different animal.

We also had Thiago out for a while that season (after only his 2nd game for us) due to Richarlison's shithousery, plus various other injuries to Fabinho, Hendo, Trent, Mane, Matip, Ox, and Keita. Not forgetting Jota who missed 19 games after that knee injury in the CL dead rubber game against FC Midtjylland.

No doubt the CBs made the figures far worse, but it was a shitstorm for injuries everywhere really - probably caused by players in unfamiliar roles or being overplayed out of necessity.

[Fromola]

I think 20/21 was skewed due to the centre back injuries though. This season is a different animal.

We had a less than ideal, shortened pre-season in 20/21 as well though which came pretty much straight after the previous one finished at the end of July. You could see in the opening game 4-3 with Leeds and the 7-2 at Villa shortly after we weren't physically ready. It was a weird season for everyone, even City started shit.

We had the shortest pre-season this season due to the CL final and effectively starting a week earlier with the Charity Shield which was in July. If we didn't play either game that's an extra 2 weeks effectively between the end of one season and the start of the next. Plus the season starting a week earlier for the World Cup which makes it effectively 3 weeks less than would normally be.

At the same time though a lot of our players coming back from summer tournaments only usually get a light pre-season as they only had a short break and are back in training maybe a week or two before the first game. That hasn't tended to hamper us (Alisson's muscle injury on the opening day in 19/20 after being rushed back from Copa America an exception). We need to adapt better to circumstances in pre-season. Of course the tours aren't ideal either but everyone else has them, it's not just us.

[keyop]

We had a less than ideal, shortened pre-season in 20/21 as well though which came pretty much straight after the previous one finished at the end of July.

What we're seeing definitely seems cumulative.

That shortened pre-season you noted was then followed by an injury riddled 2020/21, followed by a 63-game quadruple push, then a congested June/July and a shortened preseason.

As perfect storms go, we're certainly in one.

[Red-Soldier]

Looking forward to seeing what Milner can do at RB, if that is the case.  He was solid there last year.

[Eeyore]

If this is the case then it was completely pointless and a fuck up by Klopp/recruitment keeping Phillips and stopping him leaving when Konate was injured in preseason.

There were no acceptable bids for him though. Plenty of clubs wanted him on loan or for a nominal fee. The problem is if we had let him go out on loan then we would have had to bring someone else in. As melo showed we simply didn't have the funds to do that.

[newterp]

Looking forward to seeing what Milner can do at RB, if that is the case.  He was solid there last year.

Your definition of solid might be different than mine.

Or did you mean that he was solidly ineffective?

[So… Howard Philips]

There were no acceptable bids for him though. Plenty of clubs wanted him on loan or for a nominal fee. The problem is if we had let him go out on loan then we would have had to bring someone else in. As melo showed we simply didn't have the funds to do that.

Was the possibility Sepp’s loan to Schalke was to determine if he could be fifth choice CB next season and Nat could move on?

If so the injury curse has followed him to Germany.

[Chris~]

There were no acceptable bids for him though. Plenty of clubs wanted him on loan or for a nominal fee. The problem is if we had let him go out on loan then we would have had to bring someone else in. As melo showed we simply didn't have the funds to do that.

It was the start of August when he was stopped from being sold, plenty time to potentially get a good deal. We also don't need to replace a 5th choice centre back that Klopp is supposed to not rate at all and isn't really in consideration when we actually need him. In that case just let the next centre back from the acadmey fill that role, same with it being pointless signing Arthur to be, what 8th choice in midfield? Or Ban Davies. Just let that role be filled by Bajcetic or Phillips/Williams. That's the kind of situation and role we shouldn't be spending on replacing.

[Fromola]

Was the possibility Sepp’s loan to Schalke was to determine if he could be fifth choice CB next season and Nat could move on?

If so the injury curse has followed him to Germany.

Nat would have been moved on had Konate and Matip not got injured in August. Nat started our first home game. Konate was injured all month and Matip returned towards the end.

A 5th choice CB is an emergency option that is unlikely to be required (and wasn't required last season) but we can never be too careful. Either Fabinho fills in or an under 23 player, we can't carry 5 senior CB's. Phillips turns 26 this season and in his career has about one season's worth of games. It's crazy.

[newterp]

This injury crisis was foretold in Pep's book. I can't believe he would disclose our secrets to the other teams.

[bobadicious]

This injury crisis was foretold in Pep's book. I can't believe he would disclose our secrets to the other teams.

How so?

[newterp]

How so?

You have to read the book. I can't remember the exact page(s).

[Dim Glas]

If this is the case then it was completely pointless and a fuck up by Klopp/recruitment keeping Phillips and stopping him leaving when Konate was injured in preseason.

I think it’s been quite well publised no? It’s happened over 2 windows now that there where offers for Philipps, but Liverpool didn’t think they where good enough offers. Clubs where named, but to be honest, I can’t recall all - Bournemouth was one I believe, and there was another too - that he was apparently close to joining, but that didn’t happen either.

I agree that he should have been allowed to go, but easy for us to say, I’m guessing those in charge of finances/transfers thought different regards worth to what we do.

[wampa1]

Looking forward to seeing what Milner can do at RB, if that is the case.  He was solid there last year.

Wasn't he [extremely] lucky to not get sent off?

[ScouserAtHeart]

Wasn't he [extremely] lucky to not get sent off?

Rather be lucky than good?

[newterp]

Rather be lucky than good?

Rather not risk it from the outset?

[Fromola]

Wasn't he [extremely] lucky to not get sent off?

He was given the runaround all game until subbed off as his next tackle was a red card

[Clayton Bigsby]

The Konate situation seems shrouded in mystery. Put a gun to my head I think he starts.

[Barneylfc∗]

Wasn't he [extremely] lucky to not get sent off?

If memory serves me right the ref gave a free kick for a foul by Henderson, not by Milner. So he wasn't really lucky in that sense but he probably would've been booked again had he stayed on the pitch.

[Barneylfc∗]

The Konate situation seems shrouded in mystery. Put a gun to my head I think he starts.

🥹🔫

[TepidT2O]

I don’t post often Tepid and I normally enjoy your opinions. I would accept Phillips having limitations but rubbish is too strong and unfair.

It is clear to all that Klopp sees something in him and has enjoyed his journey. I think he deserves a little more respect.

The key is for a PL club though… or certainly one at our level…

I love Phillips, but for our level he’s rubbish.  For Burnley, or Everton?  Ok he fine. None of this is his fault or makes me hate him…
I just don’t think he’s good enough

[TepidT2O]

The Konate situation seems shrouded in mystery. Put a gun to my head I think he starts.

For me, the opposite.

He’s had a muscle problem on Wednesday which caused him to come off. Klopp is usually very conservative …

So I don’t think he does play. 

Man I hope that’s wrong though!

[Bird Bird Bird The Bird Is The Word]

Makes zero sense to risk Konate if he is at risk, much rather save him for one game so he can play significant minutes in the next month, than the alternative and risk losing him for the next month. Its City at home but its still only 3pts lost or gained.

[TepidT2O]

Forget Konate, he’s not in the photos of the squad going for their pre match walk.

[jillcwhomever]

Behave, you can't even see every player on those pictures.

[TepidT2O]

Behave, you can't even see every player on those pictures.

Jill he’s fucking enormous

He’s not there!

[jillcwhomever]

Jill he’s fucking enormous

He’s not there!

I am not believing you. 

[TepidT2O]

I am not believing you. 

I hope you’re right mind you…!

[TepidT2O]

I was right

… although let’s be honest, we all missed Trent there

[Eeyore]

I think it’s been quite well publised no? It’s happened over 2 windows now that there where offers for Philipps, but Liverpool didn’t think they where good enough offers. Clubs where named, but to be honest, I can’t recall all - Bournemouth was one I believe, and there was another too - that he was apparently close to joining, but that didn’t happen either.

I agree that he should have been allowed to go, but easy for us to say, I’m guessing those in charge of finances/transfers thought different regards worth to what we do.

The issue is that what we sell surplus players for is pretty much our entire transfer budget. We can't really accept low ball offers because we would have even less to spend. We need to get players like Morton and VDB out on loan to try and increase their value. Neco williams is a perfect example for me if he stays and covers Trent then there is no way we bring in £17m for him.

We ended up overplaying Trent but we probably brought in an extra £10m which paid for Ramsey.