Topic: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General

[Adeemo]

Am I wrong in thinking that it couldn't have been a pen against Trent because it would've been caused by the ball striking Silva's hand 1st?

[TepidT2O]

Am I wrong in thinking that it couldn't have been a pen against Trent because it would've been caused by the ball striking Silva's hand 1st?

Who knows?

[n00bert]

Am I wrong in thinking that it couldn't have been a pen against Trent because it would've been caused by the ball striking Silva's hand 1st?

Wondering the same thing. Just one of those weird situations where if it had been given, we’d been up in arms. I’m happy for the referee to go, ‘that’s one apiece, play on’

[Adeemo]

Who knows?

😃

[Skeeve]

Am I wrong in thinking that it couldn't have been a pen against Trent because it would've been caused by the ball striking Silva's hand 1st?

You aren't wrong, but you just know the pundits will all forget about Silva's hand when they have a whinge about it later.

[rob1966]

You aren't wrong, but you just know the pundits will all forget about Silva's hand when they have a whinge about it later.

They had at half time, hardly got a mention.

[Adeemo]

Sky desperately trying to set the narrative by completely ignoring the fact that it deflected off Sliva's arm onto Trent's.

[Adeemo]

What reason did the FA give for it not being a pen? It's not even touched his arm/hand!
https://mobile.twitter.com/hafizvdin/status/1193569954001342464?s=20

[Max_powers]

Had VAR not been around most people would have accepted the decisions made in todays game. Some would have even said that Ref had a great game.

But thanks to VAR thousands of bitter losers will spend next couple of weeks drawing lines on a screenshot and one of them is supposedly the greatest football manager of all time.

[Dull Tools]

What reason did the FA give for it not being a pen? It's not even touched his arm/hand!
https://mobile.twitter.com/hafizvdin/status/1193569954001342464?s=20

So you can't have a handball that ends up in a goal. Surely then you can't have s handball that ends up with a penalty?

[rob1966]

What reason did the FA give for it not being a pen? It's not even touched his arm/hand!
https://mobile.twitter.com/hafizvdin/status/1193569954001342464?s=20

Arm then leg, other angle shows it clearly

[farawayred]

Arm then leg, other angle shows it clearly

Regardless. The ball to Trent came from Silva's arm. I don't even get the debate... That was, if anything, a free kick to us.

[FiSh77]

Who gives a fuck 

[rob1966]

Regardless. The ball to Trent came from Silva's arm. I don't even get the debate... That was, if anything, a free kick to us.

Oh there is no debate, the Silva handball leads to a disallowed goal if it goes in. It was two rapid ricochets off two hands arms that neither player intended. Oliver and VAR was 100% correct no pen.

Gives the fuckwits on Blue Loon something to foam about tonight

[Barneylfc∗]

Duncan Castles on Twitter is hilarious

[Nessy76]

Oh there is no debate, the Silva handball leads to a disallowed goal if it goes in. It was two rapid ricochets off two hands arms that neither player intended. Oliver and VAR was 100% correct no pen.

Gives the fuckwits on Blue Loon something to foam about tonight

It's a bit of a strange one. Silva can't score, because it's come off his arm. But play does not stop, because it's not intentional. As I was saying yesterday, that sets up a ridiculous situation where the attacking team are still playing, but if they score it will be ruled out.

The official story from today was simply that Trent did not deliberately try to handle the ball. (The speed it happened, he'd be one of the greatest keepers in world football to get a hand to it on purpose.) So we can argue the toss about his "natural silhouette" (which sounds more like a perfume than a football term) but the fact it came off Silva is ultimately neither here nor there.

And no, it makes absolutely no sense. Not even really a VAR issue, this is just a result of the new handball rules not being thought through.

Not complaining, obviously. 

[dudleyred]

Check out Lazio game today for some wild use of VAR - not just a prem league issue

[rob1966]

It's a bit of a strange one. Silva can't score, because it's come off his arm. But play does not stop, because it's not intentional. As I was saying yesterday, that sets up a ridiculous situation where the attacking team are still playing, but if they score it will be ruled out.

The official story from today was simply that Trent did not deliberately try to handle the ball. (The speed it happened, he'd be one of the greatest keepers in world football to get a hand to it on purpose.) So we can argue the toss about his "natural silhouette" (which sounds more like a perfume than a football term) but the fact it came off Silva is ultimately neither here nor there.

And no, it makes absolutely no sense. Not even really a VAR issue, this is just a result of the new handball rules not being thought through.

Not complaining, obviously. 

Do us a favour, instead of coming up with VAR scenarios that then happen, can you post that I win the Euromillions on Tuesday instead

[Nick110581]

Duncan Castles on Twitter is hilarious

Is he actually sane?

[Barneylfc∗]

Premier League referees are to be encouraged to make more use of pitchside VAR monitors, referees' chief Mike Riley is expected to tell clubs later this week.

All 20 top-flight clubs will be represented at a meeting with Riley in central London on Thursday.

Top of the agenda will be the ongoing controversies around VAR, which continued on Saturday when Sheffield United had a goal ruled out at Tottenham because of a marginal offside decision.

Riley will be quizzed about various VAR issues, including inconsistencies in decision-making and the time it takes for rulings to be made, which in some instances have been several minutes after goals are scored.

It is acknowledged that solutions are not straightforward. However, it is anticipated Riley will tell clubs the on-field referee will make more use of monitors.

It was envisaged that would happen from the point VAR came into use in the Premier League but Riley advised referees not to use them in order to prevent additional delays.

It is now felt the on-field referee is best placed to make marginal calls because they are more aware of the flow of the game and the atmosphere at the time.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50367354

[Nessy76]

Do us a favour, instead of coming up with VAR scenarios that then happen, can you post that I win the Euromillions on Tuesday instead

Spooky, isn't it?

[Nick110581]

Oh there is no debate, the Silva handball leads to a disallowed goal if it goes in. It was two rapid ricochets off two hands arms that neither player intended. Oliver and VAR was 100% correct no pen.

Gives the fuckwits on Blue Loon something to foam about tonight

Yeah - more lenient with ricochets apparently.

[Roger Federer]

They had at half time, hardly got a mention.

So glad I don’t watch Sky here, on my broadcast they mentioned it right away at half time, and spent very little time talking about any ”controvery”. More about the quality of the game, and how good we both were, especially our performance.

[Legoland]

Can someone imagine what would've happened if Atkinson had refereed this game? Thank fuck we had someone competent like Michael Oliver.

[rafathegaffa83]

Riley is going to tell the refs to start using the monitors more
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/amp/football/50367354?

[4pool]

The PGMOL and PL are having a meeting with "Northern" teams and managers on Monday to discuss VAR.

[Clayton Bigsby]

Have the handball rules changed? Obviously happy went in our favour but surprised that TAA didn't concede penalty when Sterling hit the ball at his hand. I remember Iran getting a penalty at the world cup for a much harsher handball (Croatia in final was harsh as well) so I thought there was less leeway

[rob1966]

Have the handball rules changed? Obviously happy went in our favour but surprised that TAA didn't concede penalty when Sterling hit the ball at his hand. I remember Iran getting a penalty at the world cup for a much harsher handball (Croatia in final was harsh as well) so I thought there was less leeway

Its an utter mess. MOTD2 said that the PGMOL informed them when asked that Silvas handball would have ruled out any goal if the ball had gone to Sterling (apt name for the greedy bastard) but isn't counted in the decision on Trent. Last time I looked a penalty was a goal scoring opportunity, so if the handball leads to a goal, then surely if it directly leads to a penalty, that has to be considered too??

They are quite strict in the PL on distance and if a ball is driven at a player a lot won't give it. It is in the laws that distance is a factor in the referees decision. Both of Trents were deemed that he didn't have time to react, the first looks a lot worse in slow mo - annoyance for me was Shearer saying Trents arm wasn't in a natural position, err what about Agueros arms then, is he trying to handle the ball or are his arms just there due to natural movement?

[LovelyCushionedHeader]

As ridiculous as ever really. The PGMOL had the perfect reason for not awarding the penalty, all they had to do was say it could not be given because Bernado handled it first and any handball leading to a goalscoring opportunity is an offence. But no, they not only try and come out with a different explanation but totally dismiss the explanation they should have given. Idiots. All of them. Except Michael Oliver, he is great.

Edit: Both Bobby Madley and Mark Clattenburg have come out and said why the penalty actually couldn't be given. Its no surprise that individual referees know what they are doing more than their bosses (or former bosses). Its just a shame they are taking their orders from them.

[Ravishing Rick Dude]

Can someone imagine what would've happened if Atkinson had refereed this game? Thank fuck we had someone competent like Michael Oliver.

Absolutely. Oliver is the only decent ref in this league, and probably the only one who deserves to be in the World Cup.

[Nick110581]

Think it is a penalty in isolation but the rules are so unclear.

You disallow the goal if it goes to Sterling and he scores as Silva handled it but choose to ignore in this instance.

[rob1966]

Think it is a penalty in isolation but the rules are so unclear.

You disallow the goal if it goes to Sterling and he scores as Silva handled it but choose to ignore in this instance.

The rules are a mess, but I'm not even convinced it is a penalty. The photos make it look worse, but at full speed Trent had half a second to react. Also, as I posted, look at Aguero, his stance is almost identical to Trent and his arms are higher. Now if he is doing that to keep his balance, surely Trent is going to do the same.

[Nick110581]

The rules are a mess, but I'm not even convinced it is a penalty. The photos make it look worse, but at full speed Trent had half a second to react. Also, as I posted, look at Aguero, his stance is almost identical to Trent and his arms are higher. Now if he is doing that to keep his balance, surely Trent is going to do the same.

Exactly.

The rules don't help it but you can't give a penalty if it comes off Silvas hand in my opinion.

[driftinwest]

Did anyone hear what Riley had to say about it on ref watch?

[Barneylfc∗]

Did anyone hear what Riley had to say about it on ref watch?

Gallagher?

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11661/11859349/ref-watch-var-correct-to-stick-with-on-field-decision-for-trent-alexander-arnold-handball-says-dermot-Gallagher

Dermot Gallagher says VAR was correct to go with the on-field decision by Michael Oliver in the Trent Alexander-Arnold handball shout, while the former Premier League referee also assesses other VAR calls from another weekend full of controversy.

From controversial goal decisions, penalties not given for handball, and big toes being offside, it's been another eventful weekend for Premier League referees.

So how did Dermot see it? Here's Sky Sports News' resident ref's view...

Liverpool 3-1 Manchester City

INCIDENT: Fabinho fired the hosts ahead with a superb strike from distance in the top-of-the-table clash at Anfield, but moments before, Trent Alexander-Arnold appeared to handle a cross at the other end. Referee Michael Oliver waved play on but had VAR decided a foul had been committed, Fabinho's goal would have been ruled out and a penalty awarded to Manchester City.

Oliver did not feel that the incident was a deliberate act and that the defender was consistent with his movement in the penalty box. Oliver was in constant contact with the match VAR, Paul Tierney at Stockley Park, in the moments after the incident. As Tierney did not believe a clear and obvious error had been made, no penalty was given. Tierney agreed that Alexander-Arnold's arms had not been in an unnatural position when the ball struck him.

DERMOT'S VERDICT: I don't think it's a penalty.

DERMOT SAYS: This incident has to be an on-field decision, as Oliver has the best view.

There's an angle where the referee makes the decision, we don't need to talk about the VAR, the on-field referee makes the decision. Straight away, he says no penalty. He sees the speed of the ball and he sees it hit Alexander-Arnold on the arm. I think he's got the best view of everybody - he's an amazing athlete to keep up with play.

Remember, a ball striking an arm isn't a penalty. Oliver will have communicated with the VAR that the ball came too quickly at Alexander-Arnold - once Oliver makes that call, then VAR will never ever get involved. If you asked 100 neutral football fans about the decision, you'd have a split vote. There would not be a majority. Even if the referee had come over to the pitch-side monitor, he wouldn't have reversed his decision.

[Nessy76]

Its an utter mess. MOTD2 said that the PGMOL informed them when asked that Silvas handball would have ruled out any goal if the ball had gone to Sterling (apt name for the greedy bastard) but isn't counted in the decision on Trent. Last time I looked a penalty was a goal scoring opportunity, so if the handball leads to a goal, then surely if it directly leads to a penalty, that has to be considered too??

They are quite strict in the PL on distance and if a ball is driven at a player a lot won't give it. It is in the laws that distance is a factor in the referees decision. Both of Trents were deemed that he didn't have time to react, the first looks a lot worse in slow mo - annoyance for me was Shearer saying Trents arm wasn't in a natural position, err what about Agueros arms then, is he trying to handle the ball or are his arms just there due to natural movement?

I challenge anyone to stand how Trent is stood here, with both knees bent, and not have your arms in that position. It is absolutely natural posture. (As is Silva's, for that matter.)

[Rush 82]

I challenge anyone to stand how Trent is stood here, with both knees bent, and not have your arms in that position. It is absolutely natural posture. (As is Silva's, for that matter.)

I have this picture in my head of all these massive Bellends trying to run forward at pace with their hands behind their backs or static at their sides like - beggars belief that any right minded individual can say that Trent and Agueros hands were in an unnatural position.

[rushyman]

Duncan Castles on Twitter is hilarious

I actually don’t find it funny that a bloke that is an actual journo can go on like that

He sounds like an davek. That’s fine but when you work for the times you shouldn’t be allowed to spew that shit 

I’d be fucking mortified if a Liverpool fan who was a journo went on this way about United/Everton

[Red Beret]

Oh there is no debate, the Silva handball leads to a disallowed goal if it goes in. It was two rapid ricochets off two hands arms that neither player intended. Oliver and VAR was 100% correct no pen.

Gives the fuckwits on Blue Loon something to foam about tonight

City fans probably think/hope that the goal would be given regardless of whether it was legit or not.  Hopefully VAR would rule it out but unfortunately we can never be sure.

[driftinwest]

Gallagher?

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11661/11859349/ref-watch-var-correct-to-stick-with-on-field-decision-for-trent-alexander-arnold-handball-says-dermot-Gallagher

Thanks Barney, that's who I meant. Can't understand why he hasn't mentioned the ball coming off Silva's arm in the first place, I was in the lower KD and heard the kop call hand ball from Silva's challenge, couldn't see the ball come off Trent so was in the dark why they where checking VAR for Fabs goal.