Topic: LFC's next manager - chat and informed speculation

[danm77]

Which I understand, but surely formation shouldn't be a requirement for hiring a manager.

Why not? if you have a squad and a youth system that are used to playing a certain way, and it has been successful, then hiring someone with a different philosophy would mean a period of rebuilding. New style, new players, new system.

[redbyrdz]

I like that he seems to play a similar style and will be able to work with the squad we have. To be honest I don't want too radical changes at the moment. We have good players, and good youngsters coming through. Despite replacing nearly half the starting 11, we are getting back into the CL, we've won one cup and were in the run in for both the league and the europa league until the very few last games. If we had been shit, yes, by all means rip everything up and start from scratch. But the way we are looking right now, it seems to me we are more in a shape where a few coaching and tactical changes, and maybe one or two new players, could iron out or weaknesses and help us improve quite a bit.

[Crosby Nick]

There's something to be said about a baldman that refuses to grow out a beard to balance things out. It's something Alan Titchmarsh would describe as "big dick energy".

Is that Partridge? If not, it should be!

[rossipersempre]

Ruben Amorim ticked several requirements, but his playing approach - particularly using three at the back - and long-term vision did not fit the current squad nor the philosophy implemented through all age groups at Liverpool. [@MelissaReddy_]

One intermediary suggested that Amorim's meeting with West Ham was to put pressure on Liverpool, but Liverpool had ALREADY marked Slot [@MelissaReddy_]

***

Is Melissa Reddy of Sky Sports now an external member of Liverpool FC's press office? Odd she's coming out with all this unsubstantiated stuff now Slot is in the 'waiting room' with his pen in hand.

[harrylfc]

I like the fact that Slot was open about it all last night when he was asked about it,normally there’s no comment from anyone until it’s done,especially at this stage of a season.. He obviously knows what he wants,think the Dutch are quite open like that,a bit arrogant maybe,think it’s a positive thing myself ..

[rafathegaffa83]

This always seemed likely and the biggest knock on him. Ripping up a style of play that has cascaded down to all youth levels - and aided the ease with which Quansah and Bradley have transitioned to the squad -  would have been disruptive. This was always going to be a decision made with philosophy and approach in mind.

[Jm55]

Mad how much stuff I’m seeing from people who want us to get a ‘winner’ in charge.

I’m not sure how people think that managers become ‘winners’ but it’s generally by managing a club and, you know, winning matches; then getting a ‘promotion’ in the sense that a bigger club wants you, you go there and you get your opportunity to win something huge.

It’s not like anyone who hasn’t won the European cup or a major title is automatically shit, and obviously Slot has win the Dutch league anyway.

I won’t lie, I’m hugely apprehensive because Slot is unknown, he’s unknown in the sense that I’d literally never heard of him a week ago. But I’d have been apprehensive no matter who we’d appointed, if it was Ancelotti I’d have been apprehensive as he’s tended to only get the biggest prizes with teams of superstars, if it was Alonso I’d have been apprehensive as he’s only actually had one real season as the top and it could all go Gerrard, if it was Zidane It would be because he can’t speak the language.

After Jurgen leaving it’s all going to be a challenge to get used to but I do trust the people in charge and I actually take far more comfort from them clearly finding someone that they want to employ in a kind of head hunting way than do what the likes of Chelsea/United etc seem to do and just go for whoever the biggest name is at the time - sometimes that will work and sometimes it won’t but the issue is now if it doesn’t work it takes years to recover from as those managers will demand huge budgets to sign players on huge contracts and if they don’t work out it takes years to sort out.

Buzzing for the first away of the season and seeing his big baldy head glistening like a duck egg in the August sun.

[danm77]

Ruben Amorim ticked several requirements, but his playing approach - particularly using three at the back - and long-term vision did not fit the current squad nor the philosophy implemented through all age groups at Liverpool. [@MelissaReddy_]

One intermediary suggested that Amorim's meeting with West Ham was to put pressure on Liverpool, but Liverpool had ALREADY marked Slot [@MelissaReddy_]

***

Is Melissa Reddy of Sky Sports now an external member of Liverpool FC's press office? Odd she's coming out with all this unsubstantiated stuff now Slot is in the 'waiting room' with his pen in hand.

Why is it unsubstantiated? She is a Liverpool-linked journalist and has her sources at the club.

[rossipersempre]

Why is it unsubstantiated? She is a Liverpool-linked journalist and has her sources at the club.

I meant "previously unsubstantiated" as my point was it seems she is clearly being briefed now.

I know who she is from time at the Indy. Being "Liverpool-linked" means nothing though. Carragher would tick that box. As would his old mate Bascombe.

[Andy82lfc]

Misses the point entirely, the fact is we've generally done our business under the radar rather than do it in public.

Also, its stupid to somehow give Jurgen the credit for turning every player into a world class one.  You then can't try and pin failures on others.

He's a genius but very much the leader of a much greater team of staff. Let's try and be a bit magnanimous and start giving credit to everyone who has contributed to the success story.

You were comparing manager appointments with Klopp bringing in players, it was entirely the point you made which I pointed out wasn’t a great comparison, that’s all. 🤷‍♂️

[Samie]

Ruben Amorim ticked several requirements, but his playing approach - particularly using three at the back - and long-term vision did not fit the current squad nor the philosophy implemented through all age groups at Liverpool. [@MelissaReddy_]

One intermediary suggested that Amorim's meeting with West Ham was to put pressure on Liverpool, but Liverpool had ALREADY marked Slot [@MelissaReddy_]

***

Is Melissa Reddy of Sky Sports now an external member of Liverpool FC's press office? Odd she's coming out with all this unsubstantiated stuff now Slot is in the 'waiting room' with his pen in hand.

Well he and his agent did get on a plane to talk to West Ham and they're not even giving him the time ofthe day either. West Ham in talks with Lopetegui. 

[Kopenhagen]

Why not? if you have a squad and a youth system that are used to playing a certain way, and it has been successful, then hiring someone with a different philosophy would mean a period of rebuilding. New style, new players, new system.

Formations are neutral, though.

[Kopenhagen]

Amorim in the mud.

Watch Chelsea sign him.

[rossipersempre]

Well he and his agent did get on a plane to talk to West Ham and they're not even giving him the time ofthe day either.

It'd suggest he probably has financial expectations that West Ham won't consider.

I don't really give much of a toss about Amorim to be honest, other than that I don't see why if Slot is the "chosen one", the club feels the need to brief journos on reasons why we passed on the alternative?

[ChaChaMooMoo]

That's understandable when you view the entire footballing structure, and I can accept that (especially if there's not much difference between Slot or Amorim) but say hypothetically a few years down the line, Klopp Part II comes along and we have the opportunity to hire, having taken, oh I dunno, Borussia Monchengladbach to a league and Champions League and is a raging success with 3-4-3.

Does the club say 'no thanks' purely because of the formation?

Well yes to put it crudely.

Changing the formation from U9s to first team requires a mammoth phase shift in our understanding of the systems. Players, coaches etc. will have to be "rehired" or "reeducated" and will need time and effort to change their roles and some may work out and some may be moved on. Its a huge effort to change the system. You already know that.

With 1 system in place, we will not be a "jack of all trades" club. We will be focussing all our efforts, energy and education in one particular system. We will be perfecting the system at every opportunity we get. So any coach that comes, 30 years from now, will have a blue print to work with and optimise it the way he deems fit. It will be a switch between possession or counter attacking or Kloppo or whatever brand of football. But the basic skeleton will be the same. Players will be mastering one particular playing style, will be played in one (or two or three) positions and will be reliable when called to the first team.

This is not about what fits our club in the present. But what our club will stand to represent in 30-40 years from now. And beyond that actually.

We will have our own La Masia. Or Campus Bayern from where we will be churning out our local lads for the first team.

[Kopenhagen]

Ruben Amorim ticked several requirements, but his playing approach - particularly using three at the back - and long-term vision did not fit the current squad nor the philosophy implemented through all age groups at Liverpool. [@MelissaReddy_]

One intermediary suggested that Amorim's meeting with West Ham was to put pressure on Liverpool, but Liverpool had ALREADY marked Slot [@MelissaReddy_]

***

Is Melissa Reddy of Sky Sports now an external member of Liverpool FC's press office? Odd she's coming out with all this unsubstantiated stuff now Slot is in the 'waiting room' with his pen in hand.

She has someone giving her information inside the Club. She’s written some nasty hatchet job pieces semi recently to somebody’s benefit. She’s a hack like Simon Hughes and the Burger.

[rob1966]

I like that he seems to play a similar style and will be able to work with the squad we have. To be honest I don't want too radical changes at the moment. We have good players, and good youngsters coming through. Despite replacing nearly half the starting 11, we are getting back into the CL, we've won one cup and were in the run in for both the league and the europa league until the very few last games. If we had been shit, yes, by all means rip everything up and start from scratch. But the way we are looking right now, it seems to me we are more in a shape where a few coaching and tactical changes, and maybe one or two new players, could iron out or weaknesses and help us improve quite a bit.

I'm the same as you on this.  I know circumstances were different, Kenny had an aging squad, whereas Klopp is leaving a young squad, but I well remember Souness ripping everything up, he even admitted himself he tried to change too much too quickly and the damage it did. I'll never forget sitting the the Centenary Upper gobsmacked at how bad we were and how quickly we'd fallen apart.

[rossipersempre]

That's understandable when you view the entire footballing structure, and I can accept that (especially if there's not much difference between Slot or Amorim) but say hypothetically a few years down the line, Klopp Part II comes along and we have the opportunity to hire, having taken, oh I dunno, Borussia Monchengladbach to a league and Champions League and is a raging success with 3-4-3.

Does the club say 'no thanks' purely because of the formation?

Alonso being the obvious example here. No mention of us swerving him because of Leverkusen's 3-4-3, just that we thought he was unattainable this year anyway.

[Fromola]

I'm looking forward to Slot coming, really intrigued by him and will be backing him to the hilt. I've been pouring over Feyenoord videos and it looks exciting.

But I am conflicted over the club's stance that the manager has to be one of a similar nature to Klopp, right down to the formation we play. I admire the club implementing philosophies of the like you can see historically at Ajax and Barca, a system that ensures a sense of continuity and hey, standing by those principles has only benefited those clubs in the long term. It's also the best bet of ensuring youngsters get a chance which is key to our identity and success.

But at the same time, sometimes you need tactical flexibility. And I wonder if the need for that is greater in the Premier League than it is in Spain and the Netherlands. The greater competitiveness in the Premier League means that philosophies or playing styles can come unstuck against some teams, in a way that doesn't happen with lesser opponents in Spain.

I'm not asking us to play total football one week, then five at the back catenaccio defensive football the next, but I just query whether appointing a manager because he plays the same formation is indicative of a far too rigid vision?

Perhaps I'm doing Slot a disservice and that he does vary things up when need be (you have to do so to be the best) and I don't doubt his coaching credentials. But I do worry if further down the line, FSG and Edwards continue to adhere to a rigid strategy that means we lose out on the best man for the job simply because he didn't play the same formation as the predecessor.

I think if we'd turned down Alonso for that reason then it'd be a lot more questionable.

Amorim and Slot probably profiled quite similarly and ended up the main two on the shortlist. Slot won out as his style fits more the squad we have. The playing same way through the age groups also factors in because we've seen the benefits of bringing in players from the Academy sides who are used to the way we play already.

If Amorim comes in and needs to rip a lot more up off the bat to suit his style then it's a bigger upheaval in one summer.

[rossipersempre]

I think if we'd turned down Alonso for that reason then it'd be a lot more questionable.

Amorim and Slot probably profiled quite similarly and ended up the main two on the shortlist. Slot won out as his style fits more the squad we have. The playing same way through the age groups also factors in because we've seen the benefits of bringing in players from the Academy sides who are used to the way we play already.

If Amorim comes in and needs to rip a lot more up off the bat to suit his style then it's a bigger upheaval in one summer.

So Slot is the path of least resistance? And cheaper? And more willing to cede control of recruitment to Hughes and the data nerds? The easier and ultimately less risky option even?

[Wingman]

Let's not beat around the bush here, nobody on these entire boards since January or anywhere, bar the ghost of an Octopus in Germany, would have mentioned Slot as a successor, that is between all the other names from fucking Frank to O'Neil. There is a reason for that.

The reason probably being that many (like me) only watch Liverpool play, and most don’t watch the Dutch league? The rest were fixated on Alonso and/or Amorim

[Samie]

Maybe Alonso would've been the exception but we won;t know now. But Rossi mate, are you really advocating that all our age groups blueprint for the past decade should go up in flames because Kloppo is going?

[Stockholm Syndrome]

So Slot is the path of least resistance? And cheaper? And more willing to cede control of recruitment to Hughes and the data nerds?

So you are twisting "better suited to our structure" as a negative because you wanted Amorim.

Because they thought someone else was a better fit, Hughes and Edwards are wrong in their approach

Is it better a situation like Rodgers where the manager and backroom where at odds with each other and the squad in the middle of it all?

[cptrios]

God, people taking Klopp’s comments as negative and now taking that completely inoffensive Reddy post as the club shitting on Amorim. We really, really want to be miserable don’t we?

[Stockholm Syndrome]

Amorim will end up at another club, perhaps even Chelsea or United. Some of our fans love him so much, maybe they should follow him there

[Wool]

I meant "previously unsubstantiated" as my point was it seems she is clearly being briefed now.

I know who she is from time at the Indy. Being "Liverpool-linked" means nothing though. Carragher would tick that box. As would his old mate Bascombe.

She’s actually on record saying that the club were quite open in regards to Amorim’s qualities but when Slot got mentioned they were tight lipped and non-committal so she pieced together he was the one we actually wanted because of how we operate.

[Samie]

Well yes to put it crudely.

Changing the formation from U9s to first team requires a mammoth phase shift in our understanding of the systems. Players, coaches etc. will have to be "rehired" or "reeducated" and will need time and effort to change their roles and some may work out and some may be moved on. Its a huge effort to change the system. You already know that.

With 1 system in place, we will not be a "jack of all trades" club. We will be focussing all our efforts, energy and education in one particular system. We will be perfecting the system at every opportunity we get. So any coach that comes, 30 years from now, will have a blue print to work with and optimise it the way he deems fit. It will be a switch between possession or counter attacking or Kloppo or whatever brand of football. But the basic skeleton will be the same. Players will be mastering one particular playing style, will be played in one (or two or three) positions and will be reliable when called to the first team.

This is not about what fits our club in the present. But what our club will stand to represent in 30-40 years from now. And beyond that actually.

We will have our own La Masia. Or Campus Bayern from where we will be churning out our local lads for the first team.

Top post MooMoo

[rob1966]

So Slot is the path of least resistance? And cheaper? And more willing to cede control of recruitment to Hughes and the data nerds? The easier and ultimately less risky option even?

Or just better fits taking the club in the direction that Jurgen intended and the club wanted to go?

[Fromola]

I might be one of the few who thinks that the pure Klopp/heavy metal style has had its day in terms of it not being sustainable and it putting a lot of stress on players.
A refined heavy metal style is probably what's needed. Call it an evolution of style, if you wish.
Maybe Slot is the one who can deliver it.

They key is looking after the ball better. City press well but if you've got the ball all game you don't need to press much. We churn the ball over way too much in a way that we didn't in the 2018-20 peak.

In reality we haven't pressed well consistently for a while anyway. Salah's legs have got old and Nunez isn't great at it, so we don't press well from the front anymore. Gakpo signed probably more for that. Whereas the midfield has been slow and lacking legs for a few years now. Big difference from Henderson and Wijnaldum at their peak and Milner in there as well.

[Garlic Red]

Ruben Amorim ticked several requirements, but his playing approach - particularly using three at the back - and long-term vision did not fit the current squad nor the philosophy implemented through all age groups at Liverpool. [@MelissaReddy_]

One intermediary suggested that Amorim's meeting with West Ham was to put pressure on Liverpool, but Liverpool had ALREADY marked Slot [@MelissaReddy_]

***

Is Melissa Reddy of Sky Sports now an external member of Liverpool FC's press office? Odd she's coming out with all this unsubstantiated stuff now Slot is in the 'waiting room' with his pen in hand.

She’s quite clearly very chummy either with Edwards or someone close to that side of the club. Her repeated digs around 12 months ago that there was a mass exodus of data people due to being ignored only came from one place. She probably remains a confidant of those people because she doesn’t run big stories before the club give her the all clear, as we’re currently seeing.

[Fromola]

So Slot is the path of least resistance? And cheaper? And more willing to cede control of recruitment to Hughes and the data nerds? The easier and ultimately less risky option even?

Cheaper in the sense that we won't have to go out and sign 3 CB's in the summer with Slot, for example. And it remains a lot more seamless in terms of the Academy than moving everything to 3 at the back.

I don't think it's about control with recruitment - you just need a manager more on the same page as Hughes and Edwards as much as you can, as Klopp was with Edwards and Gordon during the building of a title and CL winning side.

[TepidT2O]

Slot may or may not be successful at Liverpool.

But he’s been successful at three clubs now.

First club? Reached the semi final of the Dutch cup with a second tier side.  That’s impressive.

Moves to AZ and didn’t win the league because it was cancelled. Most likely would have done.  That’s impressive.


Moves to Feyenord and  wins the league, something they don’t often do.  That’s impressive.


Will it translate? We have no idea.  But he has a record of success, suits  our style and players ….


Why not?

[Lochgelly Violet]

Nice Slot puff piece in the Graun

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2024/apr/26/arne-slot-liverpool-feyenoord-philosophy


Look, the guy has the hardest job imaginable in front of him. He's taking on a team that is 100% loyal to the previous guy and a fanbase that is 100% loyal to the previous guy. Even with the best will in the world the odds strongly favour a period of decline.

I know we're all sad about Jurgen leaving, we're all angry at the game Wednesday and slightly miffed that Xabi turned us down, but if we can be our best selves and give the new guy a chance, that's our best shot at avoiding the likely decline. I remember the fall post Kenny. Don't want to live through that again.

[rawcusk8]

Just when you thought this thread couldnt get any worse… Good lord I just spent ages trawling through shit to get to some actual news. Maybe an actual news thread would be better for people like me that would rather steer clear of some of the stuff written, my eyes are bleeding.

[rossipersempre]

Maybe Alonso would've been the exception but we won;t know now. But Rossi mate, are you really advocating that all our age groups blueprint for the past decade should go up in flames because Kloppo is going?

If we'd have offered him the job in the aftermath of Klopp's official announcement (a good 2 months after he informed FSG), then maybe. But once it was decided to wait until we got a new football CEO and SD, with the former being our former Stat Nerd-in-Chief, then I doubt he would have been an exception anyway.

I'm not advocating anything. But there's a big difference between ripping the whole place up, and examining whether a new coach is willing to adapt their approach to a new country, league, class of player etc. These guys have only been managing for a few years, and it's ludicrous if they think they got it all sorted, and can be successful set just on rinse and repeat for the next 15 years. Ask Mourinho and Rafa how that pans out. The law of ever-diminishing returns.

That's why I had - begrudgingly - a lot of respect for Xabi's decision, that he's not been there that long and still has work to do. I mean, other than the CL (which is massive and possibly unrealistic challenge) he's got nothing left to prove there. Amorim, if we believe what's been said, is at the other end of that spectrum. Slot? I don't know but his comments that he thinks he's bigger than the Dutch League and really should be in the PL, suggest he's much closer to Amorim than Alonso. Whether that let's call it 'confidence', is well placed or not, well we are about to find out.

[Jon2lfc]

You lot need to give your heads' a wobble.

Sort yourselves out and get with it!

Who's got the flight path of Slot's incoming flight? 

Memories of Klopp in 2015.............. 

[DelTrotter]

Slot? I don't know but his comments that he thinks he's bigger than the Dutch League

Is this actually real or your "twist" you've put on a comment of his?

[Lochgelly Violet]

It's the pouting over Amorim I don't get. There really isn't much to choose between he and Slot based on their records. Alonso I get because of the LFC connection and I would understand (but disagree with) anyone who advocated for someone like Tuchel who would probably keep us competitive for a couple of years, but being pissed that Amorim is not the one is a bit weird, no? Just seems like a lot of toxicity is about to come out of the woodwork and peeps are coming up with weird reasons to rationalize it.

[rob1966]

You lot need to give your heads' a wobble.

Sort yourselves out and get with it!

Who's got the flight path of Slot's incoming flight? 

Memories of Klopp in 2015.............. 

With a bit of luck my lad will be having lessons when he flies into Blackpool

[Fromola]

If we'd have offered him the job in the aftermath of Klopp's official announcement (a good 2 months after he informed FSG), then maybe. But once it was decided to wait until we got a new football CEO and SD, with the former being our former Stat Nerd-in-Chief, then I doubt he would have been an exception anyway.

I'm not advocating anything. But there's a big difference between ripping the whole place up, and examining whether a new coach is willing to adapt their approach to a new country, league, class of player etc. These guys have only been managing for a few years, and it's ludicrous if they think they got it all sorted, and can be successful set just on rinse and repeat for the next 15 years. Ask Mourinho and Rafa how that pans out. The law of ever-diminishing returns.

That's why I had - begrudgingly - a lot of respect for Xabi's decision, that he's not been there that long and still has work to do. I mean, other than the CL (which is massive and possibly unrealistic challenge) he's got nothing left to prove there. Amorim, if we believe what's been said, is at the other end of that spectrum. Slot? I don't know but his comments that he thinks he's bigger than the Dutch League and really should be in the PL, suggest he's much closer to Amorim than Alonso. Whether that let's call it 'confidence', is well placed or not, well we are about to find out.

We had to get the structure in place before we could start recruiting the manager though. We've been a bit of a mess off the pitch the last 18 months, Alonso wouldn't have took the job if he didn't know who he'd be working for anyway.