Author Topic: Terrorism in the UK - The Wider Context  (Read 97380 times)

Offline kennedy81

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Re: Terrorism in the UK - The Wider Context
« Reply #600 on: May 27, 2017, 12:18:36 pm »
I'm sure the police will have explosive experts trained to know the difference between chemicals used to give some twat a bleach up, and chemicals that are being used to prepare explosives.

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Re: Terrorism in the UK - The Wider Context
« Reply #601 on: May 27, 2017, 12:19:52 pm »
I'm sure the police will have explosive experts trained to know the difference between chemicals used to give some twat a bleach up, and chemicals that are being used to prepare explosives.
is it possible to do some kind of centrifusion type thing to get the bad stuff out of regular hair bleach for hair?

Offline kennedy81

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Re: Terrorism in the UK - The Wider Context
« Reply #602 on: May 27, 2017, 12:30:01 pm »
is it possible to do some kind of centrifusion type thing to get the bad stuff out of regular hair bleach for hair?
I've no idea. Not my area of expertise I'm afraid.

Offline TepidT2O

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Re: Terrorism in the UK - The Wider Context
« Reply #603 on: May 27, 2017, 12:30:18 pm »
is it possible to do some kind of centrifusion type thing to get the bad stuff out of regular hair bleach for hair?
Err, no.

I think people are underestimating the availability of chemicals that can be used to make explosives.
Quite a lot of them are simple household chemicals or used readily in a commercial sense.

Making explosives isn't difficult, but it's a little more difficult to detonate them effectively.  He seems to have had access to detonators.
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Offline jason67

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Re: Terrorism in the UK - The Wider Context
« Reply #604 on: May 27, 2017, 07:51:14 pm »

I find it crazy that the west are selling arms to middle east, which is the same people that funding isis.
It's quite simple.

When we sell these weapons (and biological agents) to country A, we do that knowing full well that they will use them against country B and also be used against civilians. We don't care how many people suffer whether it be men, women or children because country A are on our side and country B are not.

Then Country A gets a little bit too big for it's boots and we start to give country C weapons (and biological agents) to help country B (who are now our friends) fight country A. We also point out at this time (using our completely unbiased media) that country A has used these weapons (and biological agents) against civilians and state that the are subhuman (even though we sold them knowing exactly what they were going to be used for). We don't care how many people suffer whether it be men, women or children because country C (and B) are on our side and country A are not (anymore).

To help to get some kind of balance we sell weapons (and biological agents) to country B to help country C fight against country A. We don't care how many people suffer whether it be men, women or children because country B (and C) are on our side and country A are not.

Then country B gets a little to big for it's boots so we (continue to) sell weapons (and biological weapons) to country A (who are know are friends - again) to help country C fight against country B stating all along that we always knew country B was the real problem.

Country B then gets invaded (to promote democracy and nothing to do with the natural resources) with help from country A and C (who commit horrendous human rights abuses that get ignored) to bring stability to the region.

Country C then gets a little too big.......

Got it?
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Re: Terrorism in the UK - The Wider Context
« Reply #605 on: May 27, 2017, 08:37:21 pm »
depends how much is there/has ordered there? Would be quite easy for the police to find out how much a similar barbershop would have in stock?

Not police proof, but from casual discovery by the public.

Offline TepidT2O

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Re: Terrorism in the UK - The Wider Context
« Reply #606 on: May 27, 2017, 08:46:37 pm »
It's quite simple.

When we sell these weapons (and biological agents) to country A, we do that knowing full well that they will use them against country B and also be used against civilians. We don't care how many people suffer whether it be men, women or children because country A are on our side and country B are not.

Then Country A gets a little bit too big for it's boots and we start to give country C weapons (and biological agents) to help country B (who are now our friends) fight country A. We also point out at this time (using our completely unbiased media) that country A has used these weapons (and biological agents) against civilians and state that the are subhuman (even though we sold them knowing exactly what they were going to be used for). We don't care how many people suffer whether it be men, women or children because country C (and B) are on our side and country A are not (anymore).

To help to get some kind of balance we sell weapons (and biological agents) to country B to help country C fight against country A. We don't care how many people suffer whether it be men, women or children because country B (and C) are on our side and country A are not.

Then country B gets a little to big for it's boots so we (continue to) sell weapons (and biological weapons) to country A (who are know are friends - again) to help country C fight against country B stating all along that we always knew country B was the real problem.

Country B then gets invaded (to promote democracy and nothing to do with the natural resources) with help from country A and C (who commit horrendous human rights abuses that get ignored) to bring stability to the region.

Country C then gets a little too big.......

Got it?
It's complex though...  If you don't sell them arms then someone else will.

Someone who would care even less about the outcomes.

You have more control if you supply the arms... 


I'm not sure which position is best to take myself... it's hugely complex
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Offline jason67

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Re: Terrorism in the UK - The Wider Context
« Reply #607 on: May 27, 2017, 09:30:50 pm »
It's complex though...  If you don't sell them arms then someone else will.

Someone who would care even less about the outcomes.

You have more control if you supply the arms... 


I'm not sure which position is best to take myself... it's hugely complex
Sorry mate, and please don't take offence but that is a load of shite, especially the bit in bold.

Over decades it's been shown that the policy of supporting and arming governments that are at best, suspect and at worst downright corrupt has been a monumental disaster.

But maybe that's the point, when we have a totally corrupt system like we have where money is king and politicians answer only to the corporations instead to the people that elected them then we're fucked.

And the more people keep electing these crooks the more they can get away with it until it just becomes the norm, which it pretty much has.
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Offline TepidT2O

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Re: Terrorism in the UK - The Wider Context
« Reply #608 on: May 27, 2017, 09:33:20 pm »
Sorry mate, and please don't take offence but that is a load of shite, especially the bit in bold.

Over decades it's been shown that the policy of supporting and arming governments that are at best, suspect and at worst downright corrupt has been a monumental disaster.

But maybe that's the point, when we have a totally corrupt system like we have where money is king and politicians answer only to the corporations instead to the people that elected them then we're fucked.

And the more people keep electing these crooks the more they can get away with it until it just becomes the norm, which it pretty much has.
The trouble is, I guess you can't rerun history without selling arms to these regimes, so it's difficult to see what would have happened if you didn't.

Whether you and I agree that you have more control if you supply the arms, that's certinaly the policy governments work on..

The idea that Saudi or the like were beholden to Russia was (I guess) the rationale for supplying them instead of them going elsewhere.
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Offline The Gulleysucker

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Re: Terrorism in the UK - The Wider Context
« Reply #609 on: May 28, 2017, 12:21:12 am »
It's complex though... 

It is.

We, the UK, import oil from OPEC countries such as Quatar and Saudi Arabia.

https://www.caat.org.uk/resources/countries/saudi-arabia/arabian-connection

We have to pay for it somehow, and unfortunately wampum is no longer a recognised currency.

So, we can pay for it in hard currency, which means our balance of payments is affected, or, we supply shiny things of similar value in exchange that they may like and feel they need.

If we pay them hard currency, we have to generate that currency somehow by exporting to other countries things they want and like and that they are willing to give us their hard currency that has an intrinsic tradeable value.

Now what exactly is it we make and export and has value to these countries, stuff they can't make for themselves or buy from other countries?

So we likely have little choice.

While we can certainly put export bans on certain stuff and seek assurances that other things aren't employed against civilians, as we do, we are in not only a difficult moral position, but also in a difficult financial postion.

Don't trade, no oil.

No oil, no industry or energy.

It's a bummer, but it is a dilemma that has to be recognised and not simply brushed aside and ignored in seeking a superior moral position.

Are people really willing to put up with 20% or perhaps more overnight increase in electricity/gas/petrol etc bills simply to ensure the Saudi's don't get their gadgets they want to buy from us in exchange for their oil?

I'm not suggesting I agree with supplying them with arms, but simply as with so much of what is swirling around at the moment, it really needs some serious thought as to the consequences and also evidence of contingency plans and joined up writing for the future of the UK economy.

If not, all promises of NHS funding and all the other stuff we want may well become just dust in the wind.







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Offline Cliff Bastin

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Re: Terrorism in the UK - The Wider Context
« Reply #610 on: May 28, 2017, 12:22:01 am »
I couldn't stand Gaddafi but I'd still love to know why we got involved in getting rid of him. The place is now a mess.

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Re: Terrorism in the UK - The Wider Context
« Reply #611 on: May 28, 2017, 12:32:57 am »
I couldn't stand Gaddafi but I'd still love to know why we got involved in getting rid of him. The place is now a mess.

 What started as totally justified intervention to prevent him slaughtering his own people by the truckful ended up being fullblown regime change with very little (if any) thought of how to deal with the aftermath. I guess there are some similarities to Iraq in that regard.

You're right, though. Libya is now a far worse problem for global terrorism than it was under Gadaffi, repulsive though he was.
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Offline oldfordie

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Re: Terrorism in the UK - The Wider Context
« Reply #612 on: May 28, 2017, 01:22:26 am »
I couldn't stand Gaddafi but I'd still love to know why we got involved in getting rid of him. The place is now a mess.
Did you ever watch Gaddafis live TV speech on showing no mercy to the traitors who rose up to over throw him, he was going to wipe them out, the rhetoric was appealing. typical lunatic tyrant.
There was a 4 part special on Obamas presidency on TV last yr, very interesting, it covered the events leading up to the intervention in Libya.
A meeting was held in Paris in the hope of finding a diplomatic solution to the uprising in Libya.
Hillary Clinton walked into the meeting expecting talks but other events had occurred which turned the meeting into a emergency meeting. Sarkozy hijacked the meeting and explained as we talk Gaddafi is sending his army to wipe out the city of Benghazi. a long line of tanks are now heading towards Benghazi and a decision to act has to be taken now. cutting a long story short, nobody wanted to get involved in military action in Libiya but a decision had to be made at that meeting and the choice was to stand by and do nothing while Ghaddafi slaughters thousands or take military action.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2017, 01:24:06 am by oldfordie »
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Offline Magix

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Re: Terrorism in the UK - The Wider Context
« Reply #613 on: May 28, 2017, 03:06:27 am »


Now, this is not going to happen, if the UK politely severs ties with the region the US will be more than happy to take the trade and so on. So you will pay in blood from time to time. There is nothing else.

Yeah this is the unfortunate paradigm.

There is nonsense that  Muslims ultimately want to take over the world, nah, from what I've seen most of them want to work, live happy, mind their own business. But the path is there mentally for the angry losers to try to belong by blowing themselves up. While the path is there, all it takes is one guy to slip through for these things to happen from time to time.


Disagree with the premise here. Much like Christianity, Islam is evangelistic in nature. They do want to take over larger society in that respect.

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Re: Terrorism in the UK - The Wider Context
« Reply #614 on: May 29, 2017, 02:46:37 pm »
Said of my mate being racially abused after the attack, and how these things are only going to create more fear for people from Pakistani/Indian descent, who may well be born here and lived here all their life. It's becoming all too common.

http://metro.co.uk/2017/05/28/man-shouted-p-and-terrorist-at-surgeon-who-had-spent-48-hours-saving-manchester-victims-6667633/

An NHS surgeon who had spent 48 hours trying to save Manchester attack victims was called a ‘P***’ and a ‘terrorist’ on his way back into work.

Naveed Yasin, 37, had just spent two harrowing shifts trying to save the lives of those injured in Monday night’s devastating attack at Manchester Arena.

After a brief rest at home, he was travelling back into work at Salford Royal Hospital when a white middle-aged man racially abused him.

The man, driving past him, lowered his car window and shouted at Dr Yasin: ‘You brown P*** bastard! Go back to your country, you terrorist. We don’t want you people here. Fuck off.’

Dr Yasin, an orthopaedic surgeon, was born in Keighley in West Yorkshire, but now lives in Manchester with his wife and two daughters.

‘No matter what I say to myself, I can’t take away the hatred he had for me because of my skin colour, and the prejudices he associated with this,’ he told The Times.

Dr Yasin also said that treating the seriously injured victims was incredibly distressing.

‘The injuries patients have had include horrific [damage] to limbs, typical bomb-blast injuries,’ he said.

‘Open fractures. Patients with penetrating injuries from shrapnel. It’s soul destroying to see what these families are going through.’

Offline electricghost

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Re: Terrorism in the UK - The Wider Context
« Reply #616 on: May 29, 2017, 05:41:07 pm »
http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/dangerous-drivel-that-inspired-manchester-bomber-has-poisoned-a-significant-number-of-british-muslims/
Programs like Prevent may be imperfect, but we must reserve our real vitriol for those who espouse extremist rhetoric. One wonders why then, there appears to be more opposition in our communities to the Prevent programme – even by those earning a living off its name – than against the very extremists it sets out to challenge.

We saw that on this very thread.

Offline TepidT2O

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Re: Terrorism in the UK - The Wider Context
« Reply #617 on: May 29, 2017, 05:44:36 pm »
I couldn't stand Gaddafi but I'd still love to know why we got involved in getting rid of him. The place is now a mess.
Mostly because he was a dreadful awful human being with an appalling human rights record.  The rebels begged the west to help because he was slaughtering innocent people.

Fairly obvious I thought..  does the terrorist attack make it the wrong thing to do?
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Offline Cliff Bastin

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Re: Terrorism in the UK - The Wider Context
« Reply #618 on: May 29, 2017, 06:42:05 pm »
What started as totally justified intervention to prevent him slaughtering his own people by the truckful ended up being fullblown regime change with very little (if any) thought of how to deal with the aftermath. I guess there are some similarities to Iraq in that regard.

You're right, though. Libya is now a far worse problem for global terrorism than it was under Gadaffi, repulsive though he was.
Shouldn't have touched it. It was probably all hot air from him anyway. American policy is dictating British policy on these issues. Hillary Clinton was delighted that was taken out as seen on that video.

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Re: Terrorism in the UK - The Wider Context
« Reply #619 on: May 29, 2017, 06:46:24 pm »
Mostly because he was a dreadful awful human being with an appalling human rights record.  The rebels begged the west to help because he was slaughtering innocent people.

Fairly obvious I thought..  does the terrorist attack make it the wrong thing to do?
Show me one dictator in that region who isn't a complete c*nt. It is just not the same as the UK or countries close to us. They see things in a different way in that part of the world as far as governing is concerned. How many Islamic Republic's do you have in the world? Religious controlled states.

All that happened with Libya was replacing one lunatic with even more and possibly worse lunatics and a place which doesn't even resemble the look of a country.

Offline TepidT2O

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Re: Terrorism in the UK - The Wider Context
« Reply #620 on: May 29, 2017, 06:48:08 pm »
Show me one dictator in that region who isn't a complete c*nt. It is just not the same as the UK or countries close to us. They see things in a different way in that part of the world as far as governing is concerned. How many Islamic Republic's do you have in the world? Religious controlled states.

All that happened with Libya was replacing one lunatic with even more and possibly worse lunatics and a place which doesn't even resemble the look of a country.
A touch defeatist possibly?

That is of course the argument for supporting dictators in the first place... and that was utterly shit and created terrorists too...

Somewhat damned if you do and damned if you don't...
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Offline Cliff Bastin

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Re: Terrorism in the UK - The Wider Context
« Reply #621 on: May 29, 2017, 07:00:59 pm »
A touch defeatist possibly?

That is of course the argument for supporting dictators in the first place... and that was utterly shit and created terrorists too...

Somewhat damned if you do and damned if you don't...
I am one who doesn't actually buy into the 'West's fault for this all' argument. But I would prefer we didn't get involved in such meaningless regime changes without a solid regime replacement lined up that will take a hardline on the Islamic terrorist lunatics who seem to be all over situations like that like flies on shit and  a regime which can keep the place stable.

Offline TepidT2O

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Re: Terrorism in the UK - The Wider Context
« Reply #622 on: May 29, 2017, 07:14:58 pm »
I am one who doesn't actually buy into the 'West's fault for this all' argument. But I would prefer we didn't get involved in such meaningless regime changes without a solid regime replacement lined up that will take a hardline on the Islamic terrorist lunatics who seem to be all over situations like that like flies on shit and  a regime which can keep the place stable.
But then you have to watch on as innocent people get slaughtered by mad men...

It may be that this is the lesser of two evils, it might be...

But if you were a leader of a big nation and could stop it, would you not want to?
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
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Offline Cliff Bastin

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Re: Terrorism in the UK - The Wider Context
« Reply #623 on: May 29, 2017, 08:05:08 pm »
But then you have to watch on as innocent people get slaughtered by mad men...

It may be that this is the lesser of two evils, it might be...

But if you were a leader of a big nation and could stop it, would you not want to?
If I thought it would create a haven for ISIS then probably not. The Americans wanted him gone and the UK government just jumps on board yet again. Tried to do the same in Syria.


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Re: Terrorism in the UK - The Wider Context
« Reply #624 on: May 29, 2017, 08:16:55 pm »
Programs like Prevent may be imperfect, but we must reserve our real vitriol for those who espouse extremist rhetoric. One wonders why then, there appears to be more opposition in our communities to the Prevent programme – even by those earning a living off its name – than against the very extremists it sets out to challenge.

We saw that on this very thread.

Indeed we did. And we saw the same quotes rolled out on previous occasions; 'a teacher said they didn't like it'

Funnily enough he hasn't answered my questions about what he would like. He seemed to think him and his buddies not wanting prevent spoke for all Muslims (and that only Muslims are able to hold valid opinions on whether there should be a national program to tackle extremism - in whichever form).

Wonder if he'll ever dare to put forward his actual opinion rather than skirting around it

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Re: Terrorism in the UK - The Wider Context
« Reply #625 on: May 29, 2017, 08:30:58 pm »
Indeed we did. And we saw the same quotes rolled out on previous occasions; 'a teacher said they didn't like it'

Funnily enough he hasn't answered my questions about what he would like. He seemed to think him and his buddies not wanting prevent spoke for all Muslims (and that only Muslims are able to hold valid opinions on whether there should be a national program to tackle extremism - in whichever form).
Not a fan of Maajid Nawaz either "Is he still a Muslim?"

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Re: Terrorism in the UK - The Wider Context
« Reply #626 on: May 29, 2017, 11:43:08 pm »
I take it that you lot have seen this ..... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fny99f8amM

Explains a little on how we are in this mess at the moment.

Pardon me for posting this but as far as I know Adam Curtis hasn't been banned from here?



he's got his own thread in the arts section.

https://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=320284.msg14997193#msg14997193

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Re: Terrorism in the UK - The Wider Context
« Reply #627 on: May 31, 2017, 10:00:22 am »
A reminder today that the wider context of terrorism includes the atrocious attacks on Afghans and those international organisations working to secure that country from the absolute religious nutters who would return it to their own medieval version of hell.

At least 80 killed yesterday in Kabul by the 'God is Great' brigade.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-40102903
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Re: Terrorism in the UK - The Wider Context
« Reply #628 on: May 31, 2017, 10:14:27 am »
One of the people who died was one of our own.

https://twitter.com/Roh_Yakobi

RIP Aziz Navin.
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Offline classycarra

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Re: Terrorism in the UK - The Wider Context
« Reply #629 on: May 31, 2017, 11:23:44 am »
One of the people who died was one of our own.

https://twitter.com/Roh_Yakobi

RIP Aziz Navin.

Just adding a direct link to the tweet I think you're referencing

https://twitter.com/Roh_Yakobi/status/869841413713920000

RIP all those murdered by Islamist terrorists (whether this was Taliban or ISIS) playing their disgusting sectarian games.

A horrible reminder of why freedom to practice religion in the West is one of the primary reason so many Muslims want to emigrate here, where we respect this right. Practising Muslims shouldn't have to fear being murdered by other practising Muslims because of their religious views - fortunately for the most part this worldwide trait of Islam has not reached the UK (with some notable exceptions).
« Last Edit: May 31, 2017, 11:26:01 am by Classycara »

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Re: Terrorism in the UK - The Wider Context
« Reply #630 on: May 31, 2017, 01:44:32 pm »
Just adding a direct link to the tweet I think you're referencing

https://twitter.com/Roh_Yakobi/status/869841413713920000

RIP all those murdered by Islamist terrorists (whether this was Taliban or ISIS) playing their disgusting sectarian games.

A horrible reminder of why freedom to practice religion in the West is one of the primary reason so many Muslims want to emigrate here, where we respect this right. Practising Muslims shouldn't have to fear being murdered by other practising Muslims because of their religious views - fortunately for the most part this worldwide trait of Islam has not reached the UK (with some notable exceptions).

There's also this tweet https://twitter.com/Roh_Yakobi/status/869846697521938432

Quote
His last Facebook post was about football. Reminding us @ManUtd fans that @LFC had more European trophies. #KabulExplosion #Afghanistan


RIP Aziz

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Re: Terrorism in the UK - The Wider Context
« Reply #631 on: June 1, 2017, 05:07:35 am »
This article should make very uncomfortable reading:

http://johnpilger.com/articles/terror-in-britain-what-did-the-prime-minister-know

To paraphrase something I read on another forum:

Police: "We're rolling up his network."

MI6: "Errrr...."

Police: "Yeah, lone wolf, yeah deffo. Sorry about that."


Contradicting Pilger, there is some U.K. press coverage:

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/15314045.After_the_carnage_of_Manchester__A_new_matrix_of_terror/?ref=twtrec
« Last Edit: June 1, 2017, 06:02:27 am by RedBootsTommySmith »
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Re: Terrorism in the UK - The Wider Context
« Reply #632 on: June 1, 2017, 07:39:24 am »
Whichever way you want to look at these links, there's no mistaking the odour of deep - and I mean REALLY deep - shit is there?
« Last Edit: June 1, 2017, 08:53:59 am by JohnnoWhite »
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Re: Terrorism in the UK - The Wider Context
« Reply #633 on: June 1, 2017, 07:57:26 am »
This article should make very uncomfortable reading:

http://johnpilger.com/articles/terror-in-britain-what-did-the-prime-minister-know

To paraphrase something I read on another forum:

Police: "We're rolling up his network."

MI6: "Errrr...."

Police: "Yeah, lone wolf, yeah deffo. Sorry about that."


Contradicting Pilger, there is some U.K. press coverage:

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/15314045.After_the_carnage_of_Manchester__A_new_matrix_of_terror/?ref=twtrec


PIlger, one of my heroes when I was younger but he jumped the shark a long time ago. That article could have been written at any time in the last few years apart from topping and tailing it with the Manchester attack.

Bodged foreign policy may have given the bomber a motive but the bottom line is that he chose to pack a bomb with shrapnel and set it off to kill and maim children, teenagers and their parents at a pop concert. And Pilger's getting close to Infowars territory if he's hinting that the government, security services and police delliberately allowed the bomb attack to go ahead.

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Re: Terrorism in the UK - The Wider Context
« Reply #634 on: June 1, 2017, 08:03:27 am »
Only uncomfortable reading, as he's shoehorned so much shit into an article and (as Alan put it) topped and tailed it with some Manchester stuff. Don't people get tired of his nonsense?

As has been discussed, with far more nuance in this thread, this attack (along with Stockholm and Brussels and Paris and Nigeria and Afghanistan et al) had fuck all to do with our foreign policy (which matched the terrorists foreign objectives) and more to do with his fundamentalist Islamist beliefs.

At what point will some of Pilgers followers find him offensive and become frustrated with him for being an apologisist, and diminishing the responsibility of, for countless murderers of children? Doesn't seem like he has much, if any, journalistic integrity based on his consistently daft conclusions
« Last Edit: June 1, 2017, 08:07:23 am by Classycara »

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Re: Terrorism in the UK - The Wider Context
« Reply #635 on: June 1, 2017, 09:30:14 am »
Only uncomfortable reading, as he's shoehorned so much shit into an article and (as Alan put it) topped and tailed it with some Manchester stuff. Don't people get tired of his nonsense?

As has been discussed, with far more nuance in this thread, this attack (along with Stockholm and Brussels and Paris and Nigeria and Afghanistan et al) had fuck all to do with our foreign policy (which matched the terrorists foreign objectives) and more to do with his fundamentalist Islamist beliefs.

At what point will some of Pilgers followers find him offensive and become frustrated with him for being an apologisist, and diminishing the responsibility of, for countless murderers of children? Doesn't seem like he has much, if any, journalistic integrity based on his consistently daft conclusions

And the Philippines last week. And the Coptic Christians in Egypt this week.

We are being attacked by medieval reactionaries. Fascists if you will. What they hate about us most is our secularism, our liberalism and our democracy.

Pilger doesn't particularly care for any of those three things. He actually believes that democracy doesn't exist in the West and he is pretty certain that liberalism is a mask for imperialism and authoritarianism. It has led him over the last 15 years to sympathise with anyone in the world who also hates our 'western' values. Hence his soft-soaping of Putin, his frankly embarrassing suck-job on Chavez, and his constant apologies for Islamist terrorists.
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Re: Terrorism in the UK - The Wider Context
« Reply #636 on: June 1, 2017, 12:18:21 pm »
Alan, unlike yourself I still respect JPs writings (obviously). I didn't read into his article a claim that our security services 'allowed it to happen'. My own inference is that here is an LIFG 'asset', for want of a better term, gone rogue. 'Blowback', I believe, is the term.

And Yorkie, I don't believe the Manchester bomber had problems with our secularism, by accounts he was deluded into thinking he was avenging lives lost overseas. If we are worried of others attacking secularism, why are we backing the Sunni fundamentalists so intent on removing secularism from the ME? I think JP explains why.

Johnno, indeed, something smells.

« Last Edit: June 1, 2017, 12:28:08 pm by RedBootsTommySmith »
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Re: Terrorism in the UK - The Wider Context
« Reply #637 on: June 1, 2017, 12:31:24 pm »
Alan, unlike yourself I still respect JPs writings (obviously). I didn't read into his article a claim that our security services 'allowed it to happen'. My own inference is that here is an LIFG 'asset', for want of a better term, gone rogue. 'Blowback', I believe, is the term.

And Yorkie, I don't believe the Manchester bomber had problems with our secularism, by accounts he was deluded into thinking he was avenging lives lost overseas. If we are worried of others attacking secularism, why are we backing the Sunni fundamentalists so intent on removing secularism from the ME? I think JP explains why.

Johnno, indeed, something smells.

According to his sister, he was avenging the victims of US bombings by killing children in Manchester.
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Re: Terrorism in the UK - The Wider Context
« Reply #638 on: June 1, 2017, 01:03:09 pm »
Alan, unlike yourself I still respect JPs writings (obviously). I didn't read into his article a claim that our security services 'allowed it to happen'. My own inference is that here is an LIFG 'asset', for want of a better term, gone rogue. 'Blowback', I believe, is the term.

And Yorkie, I don't believe the Manchester bomber had problems with our secularism, by accounts he was deluded into thinking he was avenging lives lost overseas. If we are worried of others attacking secularism, why are we backing the Sunni fundamentalists so intent on removing secularism from the ME? I think JP explains why.

Johnno, indeed, something smells.



Whether or not the twat was bright enough to refer to it as secularism, that's what he's opposed to. He might prefer the term unbelievers or Kafir/Kuffar though.

If you believe his views were deluded, why do you promote Pilger's backwards theories and conclusions? Surely you realise that he, and by proxy you, are affirming this incorrect belief that it's rational to have a problem with the entire western world because of some cherry-picked foreign policies?

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Re: Terrorism in the UK - The Wider Context
« Reply #639 on: June 1, 2017, 01:24:36 pm »
The MEE article referenced in both prior articles:

http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/sorted-mi5-how-uk-government-sent-british-libyans-fight-gaddafi-1219906488

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