Author Topic: Liverpool v Porto (CL ) - Wed 24 Nov 8pm - Pre Match Thread  (Read 17760 times)

Offline VVM

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Re: Liverpool v Porto (CL ) - Wed 24 Nov 8pm - Pre Match Thread
« Reply #120 on: November 23, 2021, 03:27:31 pm »
Just looked up our booking stats.

Milner on 2. Mane, Jota, Trent and Matip all on 1.

3 gets you a suspension and they are wiped after the quarter finals.

Argument could be made to play Milner and get him booked but that would be a bit unsportsmanlike.

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Re: Liverpool v Porto (CL ) - Wed 24 Nov 8pm - Pre Match Thread
« Reply #121 on: November 23, 2021, 03:39:20 pm »
One of the hardest to predict this for sure. I'll go with the following:

Kelleher - Needs the game time and no harm in resting Alisson
Neco - Chance to rest Trent and for Neco to build upon his impressive international games
Konate - Needs the game time
Matip - I'd see one of Matip or Virgil playing and since Matip had a rest over internationals I'll go with him.
Tsimikas - Think him and Robertson will play a half each with Robbo coming back from injury
Ox - In decent form but game time might dry up a bit with other midfielders back from injury
Morton - Chance for a champions league debut and to rest Fab
Thiago - He did the press conference
Salah - Between him or Mane, Mane on a booking so I'll go with Salah
Origi - If he's feeling better
Minamino - Needs minutes

Kelleher
Neco - Konate - Matip - Tsimikas
Ox - Morton - Thiago
Salah - Origi - Minamino

Phillips might also be in with a shout to replace Matip in the second half I reckon
That's a good summary, and that back 5 could compete with most teams in the league which shows we have decent depth.

Such a shame we don't have Jones or Elliott as they would've been perfect for this situation. Just hope whichever first teamers we go with (as we'll probably have at least 2 or 3) manage to survive unscathed. At least its not an Atletico type team - Porto have plenty of snide but I don't recall them being as physical as other teams.
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Re: Liverpool v Porto (CL ) - Wed 24 Nov 8pm - Pre Match Thread
« Reply #122 on: November 23, 2021, 03:42:16 pm »
Everyone here would pick a severely weakened team. The risk versus reward isnít really in favour of picking a full strength team. If a bunch of divvys on the internet can see that then Iím sure Klopp can.

Equally I donít see Klopp being dictated what type of team he can pick for any game by anyone else at the club. Klopp works willingly within the constraints of the club but I just donít envisage a situation where a suit at the club would tell him what team or strength of team to pick. If you think they would, and Klopp would listen and obey them, then fair enough.  Nothing thatís happened in the last 5 years or so would suggest anyone but Klopp has control of picking the XI.

Klopp has heavily rotated for domestic cup games. Even ina derby match he put out what was essentially a team of reserves plus a couple of squad players.

Got to ask why he wouldnít do it for a CL game though. Why doesnít any other manager whack out U23 teams in CL either?

Seriously what do people think the reasons are? And if itís just prize money do you think Klopp is a stooge whoíll let non-footballing people dictate his team selection? Because heís either a club stooge or Ďstupidí if he picks a strong starting XI. Or there other factors ?

Klopp is big on rhythm but he can't complain about players playing too many games, if he's going to play them in pointless games like this, when they can have a rare free midweek (with the derby next week).

He'll pick a team to try and win the game though. Everton in the cup he went out to win the game, even though he rested a lot of players.

Klopp will decide which players he feels need minutes and which need the rest. In Denmark last year it always comes back to Jota, but you could argue he needed the minutes and he was unlucky. What gets overlooked is Salah played 90 minutes that night, in a completely pointless game.
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Re: Liverpool v Porto (CL ) - Wed 24 Nov 8pm - Pre Match Thread
« Reply #123 on: November 23, 2021, 03:50:37 pm »
One of the hardest to predict this for sure. I'll go with the following:

Kelleher - Needs the game time and no harm in resting Alisson
Neco - Chance to rest Trent and for Neco to build upon his impressive international games
Konate - Needs the game time
Matip - I'd see one of Matip or Virgil playing and since Matip had a rest over internationals I'll go with him.
Tsimikas - Think him and Robertson will play a half each with Robbo coming back from injury
Ox - In decent form but game time might dry up a bit with other midfielders back from injury
Morton - Chance for a champions league debut and to rest Fab
Thiago - He did the press conference
Salah - Between him or Mane, Mane on a booking so I'll go with Salah
Origi - If he's feeling better
Minamino - Needs minutes

Kelleher
Neco - Konate - Matip - Tsimikas
Ox - Morton - Thiago
Salah - Origi - Minamino

Phillips might also be in with a shout to replace Matip in the second half I reckon

Nat deserves a start with Konate. Pointless risking Matip who can play Saturday and then the Derby.

Tsimikas and Williams a good chance for a start for them. Minamino and Origi would be obvious choices.

Midfield is a chance to play whoever needs the minutes. If Milner/Keita are back training they could play a half each. Good chance for Morton to get a start. Ox to get more minutes.

Klopp is right with this point which makes more sense than the nonsense of a bit of extra prize money (which doesn't make any odds to him at all, his brief is to go far in the competition):

Quote
Klopp: "If I leave them all out we won't even have a team! We have to line up a team to win a football game. We need stability."

Just need to be sensible with who we risk and who we give the night off.
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Offline lamonti

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Re: Liverpool v Porto (CL ) - Wed 24 Nov 8pm - Pre Match Thread
« Reply #124 on: November 23, 2021, 04:08:11 pm »
Honest question Ö

What is the difference between (1) Player A plays today vs Porto, gets injured and misses 2 months versus (2) Player A does not play vs Porto, plays on Sat vs Southampton, gets injured and misses 2 months?

Exactly.

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Re: Liverpool v Porto (CL ) - Wed 24 Nov 8pm - Pre Match Thread
« Reply #125 on: November 23, 2021, 04:14:53 pm »
Is Origi back from the illness that kept him out of the squad on Sat?

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Re: Liverpool v Porto (CL ) - Wed 24 Nov 8pm - Pre Match Thread
« Reply #126 on: November 23, 2021, 04:22:48 pm »
We've got a lot of players, like Thiago and Ox, who could benefit immensely from some game time in terms of match fitness.  Whilst it's rightfully pointed out that it's £2.5m for a win, that would likely barely cover the wages of our core players for the week.

That said, for us Porto is like the Arsenal of Europe, so I'm interested to see what happens. :)
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Re: Liverpool v Porto (CL ) - Wed 24 Nov 8pm - Pre Match Thread
« Reply #127 on: November 23, 2021, 04:35:45 pm »
Still about £4m in prize money up for grabs in the next 2 games, there'll be changes but we'll still go strong in both games.

That could pay for Salah's new contract for 2 months.

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Re: Liverpool v Porto (CL ) - Wed 24 Nov 8pm - Pre Match Thread
« Reply #128 on: November 23, 2021, 04:44:00 pm »
Personally I'd be starting Jota, Origi and Minamino in the front three if they're all fit/available. They're likely to be three of our four starting forwards when Mane and Salah are at the AFCON and time for them to get competitive minutes as a unit will likely be beneficial. Shame Bobby is out for that same logic.

Midfield I'd be trying to give Fab time off and Henderson too if he's not ready. Possible we go with Morton, Thiago and Ox in there. Will be a test for Morton but one he's earned I reckon. Ox should be given time to keep building rhythm and sharpness - no surprise that's he's starting to show his ability now that he's had a run in the starting 11. Hope that the same applies to Thiago too.

Defense will be interesting. Personally would be starting Gomez at RB and Konate/Phillips centrally. Trent won't get much rest so we really should give him some time off when we can. Possible that Neco gets the nod here but I think Gomez is more likely to feature throughout the season so his match fitness needs to be honed. I'd give Tsmikas the shirt at LB. He's probably been our best LB this year and Robbo will likely benefit from both the rest and the genuine competition for his spot.

All that said, I'd not be surprised at all if Klopp goes with this strongest team!

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Re: Liverpool v Porto (CL ) - Wed 24 Nov 8pm - Pre Match Thread
« Reply #129 on: November 23, 2021, 04:46:24 pm »
Williams, Milner, Robertson, Jota and Origi all in training.

Offline wige

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Re: Liverpool v Porto (CL ) - Wed 24 Nov 8pm - Pre Match Thread
« Reply #130 on: November 23, 2021, 04:47:34 pm »
Honest question Ö

What is the difference between (1) Player A plays today vs Porto, gets injured and misses 2 months versus (2) Player A does not play vs Porto, plays on Sat vs Southampton, gets injured and misses 2 months?

Well the logic is that the Porto game is irrelevant, so why risk players you need for games that are relevant. If you lose players in league games, CL games that matter or latter round domestic cups (and even training for that matter) then that's just how it goes. Think the point is, why risk them?

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Re: Liverpool v Porto (CL ) - Wed 24 Nov 8pm - Pre Match Thread
« Reply #131 on: November 23, 2021, 04:55:18 pm »
Well the logic is that the Porto game is irrelevant, so why risk players you need for games that are relevant. If you lose players in league games, CL games that matter or latter round domestic cups (and even training for that matter) then that's just how it goes. Think the point is, why risk them?
This is the logic I would go by, though I suspect most of us that feel this way will be disappointed when we put out a fairly strong lineup tomorrow. Hoping to see Kelleher, Morton and Williams at least all start and think they have a good chance of doing so, but wouldn't be amazed if none of them do. Shame our options up front are so limited currently, as I'd love to rest at least two of them for this.

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Re: Liverpool v Porto (CL ) - Wed 24 Nov 8pm - Pre Match Thread
« Reply #132 on: November 23, 2021, 04:55:47 pm »
Well the logic is that the Porto game is irrelevant, so why risk players you need for games that are relevant. If you lose players in league games, CL games that matter or latter round domestic cups (and even training for that matter) then that's just how it goes. Think the point is, why risk them?

Also, there's the time factor. Klopp hates Wednesday night followed by Saturday lunchtime. Saturday 3pm isn't much better (still a fair bit less than the advised 72 hours between game recovery). And the fact Saturday is then followed by a midweek derby (and then another league game at the weekend).

It's a case of going as strong as you can while resting as many of the XI for Saturday as you can. We can do that and still put a strong XI out. We should treat it like a League Cup game basically.

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Offline Realgman

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Re: Liverpool v Porto (CL ) - Wed 24 Nov 8pm - Pre Match Thread
« Reply #133 on: November 23, 2021, 05:19:54 pm »
Yeah agreed.
I suppose the question is of resting versus , needs game time... but the thing is, this does not really mitigate injuries etc... outside of an overplayed player risking hammys etc.. but no decent manager should allow that in this kinda game.
So by that logic dont play any player that is strongest in his position in an irrelevant game....

Well the logic is that the Porto game is irrelevant, so why risk players you need for games that are relevant. If you lose players in league games, CL games that matter or latter round domestic cups (and even training for that matter) then that's just how it goes. Think the point is, why risk them?
« Last Edit: November 23, 2021, 05:42:27 pm by Realgman »
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Re: Liverpool v Porto (CL ) - Wed 24 Nov 8pm - Pre Match Thread
« Reply #134 on: November 23, 2021, 05:46:56 pm »
Honest question Ö

What is the difference between (1) Player A plays today vs Porto, gets injured and misses 2 months versus (2) Player A does not play vs Porto, plays on Sat vs Southampton, gets injured and misses 2 months?

Youíve got the argument that in terms of qualifying and position in the group, win, lose, or draw against Porto and Milan makes no difference to us, weíve already won the group, so some will ask why risk an injury in a game that has no bearing on where we finish in the group.

Southampton is a game we want to win to get 3 points, so you play your strongest team.

Injuries can happen at any time, so at times if you can reduce the risk then why not do it?

At the end of the day Klopp is the boss and I trust him to pick the team that he thinks is right, rather than what I would pick, or someone else.

Offline wige

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Re: Liverpool v Porto (CL ) - Wed 24 Nov 8pm - Pre Match Thread
« Reply #135 on: November 23, 2021, 05:52:19 pm »
This is the logic I would go by, though I suspect most of us that feel this way will be disappointed when we put out a fairly strong lineup tomorrow. Hoping to see Kelleher, Morton and Williams at least all start and think they have a good chance of doing so, but wouldn't be amazed if none of them do. Shame our options up front are so limited currently, as I'd love to rest at least two of them for this.

Even if Klopp wants to go strong its upfront I think we should see changes regardless. Whatever he and the coaches have in mind as our solution for AFCON should be trialled here imo.

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Re: Liverpool v Porto (CL ) - Wed 24 Nov 8pm - Pre Match Thread
« Reply #136 on: November 23, 2021, 06:16:26 pm »
Lewandowski starting away at Dynamo Kiev in a dead rubber CL match when Chuopo-Moting is their only reserve. Goreztka starting in midfield and Coman & Sane starting out wide despite some uncertainty about when unvaccinated players like Kimmich and Gnabry will be available. The only non regular 1st team squad member thatís playing is Tanguy Nianzou. Heís made over 10 appearances for Bayern already.

If Klopp picks a strong-ish team tomorrow night then people can feel aggrieved to an extent. What people canít say is that we are the exception. Itís the norm to pick slightly rotated XIs in CL dead rubbers. Itís not the norm to start 4 or 5 kids - which is in essence what some want Klopp to do. I want Klopp to pick a really weak XI too but itís completely unrealistic and not a valid criticism if he doesnít do that.

« Last Edit: November 23, 2021, 06:24:36 pm by Jookie »
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Re: Liverpool v Porto (CL ) - Wed 24 Nov 8pm - Pre Match Thread
« Reply #137 on: November 23, 2021, 06:21:09 pm »
Honest question Ö

What is the difference between (1) Player A plays today vs Porto, gets injured and misses 2 months versus (2) Player A does not play vs Porto, plays on Sat vs Southampton, gets injured and misses 2 months?

One game is irrelevant the other isn't - so the decision to play them is a totally different risk/reward equation

When Jota was injured in the dead rubber last season there was a constant refrain of 'yeah but players can get injured at any time' .... well quite - thats why you don't risk them if you don't have to.
That they can get injured in any game is an argument for not playing them when you don't have to rather than the opposite - why expose them to unnecessary risk especially when you have a pretty frail squad and are just coming into the intensive winter period


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Re: Liverpool v Porto (CL ) - Wed 24 Nov 8pm - Pre Match Thread
« Reply #138 on: November 23, 2021, 06:23:39 pm »
Think there a few players that should be nowhere near this one and for me its Van Dijk, Trent, Fabinho and Salah.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2021, 06:26:37 pm by a treeless whopper »

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Re: Liverpool v Porto (CL ) - Wed 24 Nov 8pm - Pre Match Thread
« Reply #139 on: November 23, 2021, 06:31:17 pm »
Think there a few players that should be nowhere near this one and for me its Van Dijk, Trent, Fabinho and Salah.
This and i would add Mane.
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Re: Liverpool v Porto (CL ) - Wed 24 Nov 8pm - Pre Match Thread
« Reply #140 on: November 23, 2021, 06:32:52 pm »
This and i would add Mane.

Mane has actually had a fair deal of rest in quite a few games. He even came back early from International duty because of the injury risk but was back in training straight away. Can see him playing.

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Re: Liverpool v Porto (CL ) - Wed 24 Nov 8pm - Pre Match Thread
« Reply #141 on: November 23, 2021, 06:38:08 pm »
Think there a few players that should be nowhere near this one and for me its Van Dijk, Trent, Fabinho and Salah.

And Alisson. In any case, Caoimhin needs a game.
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Re: Liverpool v Porto (CL ) - Wed 24 Nov 8pm - Pre Match Thread
« Reply #142 on: November 23, 2021, 06:48:26 pm »
If these are anywhere near as bad as they were in the first game we could win with a much changed squad, certainly the likes of Konate/Phillips/Minamino/Divock coming in. Bare in mind this is Anfield too, but also they need the points more now than they did then. In that first game their players looked as if they'd never met each other before, was surprised how bad they were actually.

Obviously we can't just play a whole XI under 21 years of age but have to find the balance. Midfield is really interesting, I think Morton must start but it's hard to say who with. If Henderson can play an hour I wouldn't be surprised to see him start or play 45. Not really a fan of the five subs rule in general but it does come in handy in these situations.
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Re: Liverpool v Porto (CL ) - Wed 24 Nov 8pm - Pre Match Thread
« Reply #143 on: November 23, 2021, 07:04:01 pm »
Ideally we give rests to Salah, Virgil, Trent, Fabinho and maybe Jota here. Go a few goals up vs Southampton and then bring off Salah and Mane so they'll be very fresh going into the Everton game. That's the biggest game of our next 7 days by far and will be the most physically demanding.
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Re: Liverpool v Porto (CL ) - Wed 24 Nov 8pm - Pre Match Thread
« Reply #144 on: November 23, 2021, 08:50:00 pm »
Would play a much changed side:

Kelleher
Neco
Nat
Konate
Kostas
Morton
Milner
Thiago (for 45 mins)
Taki
Origi
Ox
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Re: Liverpool v Porto (CL ) - Wed 24 Nov 8pm - Pre Match Thread
« Reply #145 on: November 23, 2021, 09:14:05 pm »
A little perspective..

Winning the League (Carabao) Cup gets you £100,000 and the Cup.

Winning a group stage match gets you about £2,000,000 .

It's why the club is in the CL. To win matches, make money, and hope to win the Final.
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Re: Liverpool v Porto (CL ) - Wed 24 Nov 8pm - Pre Match Thread
« Reply #146 on: November 23, 2021, 09:30:15 pm »
A little perspective..

Winning the League (Carabao) Cup gets you £100,000 and the Cup.

Winning a group stage match gets you about £2,000,000 .

It's why the club is in the CL. To win matches, make money, and hope to win the Final.

If Salah or Virgil got injured that 2m would mean feck all.

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Re: Liverpool v Porto (CL ) - Wed 24 Nov 8pm - Pre Match Thread
« Reply #147 on: November 23, 2021, 09:40:02 pm »
Candidates for 45 minutes each?

Matip and van Djik, playing alongside Konate
Robbo and Tsimikas at LB
Henderson and Fabinho, in the 6 role
Milner and Thiago, left sided 8
2 from Mane, Salah and Jota, playing in the 3rd attacking spot alongside Origi and Minamino

Think we should have 3 of those preplanned for half time.

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Re: Liverpool v Porto (CL ) - Wed 24 Nov 8pm - Pre Match Thread
« Reply #148 on: November 23, 2021, 09:50:09 pm »
Hoping we put the entire second string out and the kids on the bench.

Be great experience for them and I don't think we can finish outside first place now can we?
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Re: Liverpool v Porto (CL ) - Wed 24 Nov 8pm - Pre Match Thread
« Reply #149 on: November 23, 2021, 09:53:27 pm »
Honest question Ö

What is the difference between (1) Player A plays today vs Porto, gets injured and misses 2 months versus (2) Player A does not play vs Porto, plays on Sat vs Southampton, gets injured and misses 2 months?

A lot of players have been overplayed this season already. Most haven't had any rest at all.

You can argue they are on megabucks and fuck them, but injury problems quite often mount up when you haven't had a chance to factor in the correct level of recovery time.

Us being able to rest most of the first team is really a massive chance to get some of those niggly injuries, strains and tiredness out of the system and a good time to then crack on with it over the Christmas period.
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Re: Liverpool v Porto (CL ) - Wed 24 Nov 8pm - Pre Match Thread
« Reply #150 on: November 23, 2021, 09:54:48 pm »
Klopp will rest a few who will definitely benefit. It'll still be a strong side, as we have a decent squad (despite the injuries). But then he'll make sure he uses the 5 subs, so even the "core" players he does play, won't be close to playing 90 minutes.

Pretty sure the likes of Minamino, Konate, Kelleher, Origi, and others, will benefit from the run out. Others will benefit from the rest.
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Re: Liverpool v Porto (CL ) - Wed 24 Nov 8pm - Pre Match Thread
« Reply #151 on: November 23, 2021, 10:07:57 pm »
At least we can make five subs. Gives us plenty of options to rest and rotate players.
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Re: Liverpool v Porto (CL ) - Wed 24 Nov 8pm - Pre Match Thread
« Reply #152 on: November 23, 2021, 11:04:39 pm »
About time Ibe got another chance
aarf, aarf, aarf.

Offline Perham

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Re: Liverpool v Porto (CL ) - Wed 24 Nov 8pm - Pre Match Thread
« Reply #153 on: November 23, 2021, 11:21:12 pm »
About time Ibe got another chance
I think he's cup tied unfortunately.
if I came home to allison in bed with my wife I'd ask him to phone Virgil to see if he wanted to pop round too.

Offline MNAA

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Re: Liverpool v Porto (CL ) - Wed 24 Nov 8pm - Pre Match Thread
« Reply #154 on: November 23, 2021, 11:28:43 pm »
Honest question Ö

What is the difference between (1) Player A plays today vs Porto, gets injured and misses 2 months versus (2) Player A does not play vs Porto, plays on Sat vs Southampton, gets injured and misses 2 months?
Thank you for the responses

Rotating a few players once we have qualified for the next round makes sense Ö for the players who needs a bit of breather. Even when we have yet to qualify, Klopp did it (e.g. vs Milan). But making wholesale changes to avoid players getting injured, thatís completely different

I believe we will see changes. Probably 4 or 5 of our key players will be rested. Had we have full squad i.e. Gomez, Robbo, Naby, Jones, Elliott, Bobby and Origi all available, perhaps more would be rotated

Klopp has been consistent in putting out a team that to him is good enough to win. For Porto, I think he will make a few changes, rested a few key players where appropriate and even give debuts to 1 or 2 youngsters. A League Cup like starting XI however I believe will be unlikely

To me getting injured whether in a relevant game, a meaningless game, by your own team mate in the training ground or a freak injury at home - theyíre all the same. We will still be missing the player for a period of time
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Offline Jookie

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Re: Liverpool v Porto (CL ) - Wed 24 Nov 8pm - Pre Match Thread
« Reply #155 on: November 23, 2021, 11:54:18 pm »
A lot of players have been overplayed this season already. Most haven't had any rest at all.

Whoís been overplayed by Liverpool this season? Or are you talking about combination of club and international football?
I think Jookie might just be the best fisherman on this thread.

Offline vivabobbygraham

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Re: Liverpool v Porto (CL ) - Wed 24 Nov 8pm - Pre Match Thread
« Reply #156 on: November 24, 2021, 01:32:50 am »
About time Ibe got another chance

I hope Ojo gets on
...If you can meet with triumph and disaster
And treat those two imposters just the same

Offline vivabobbygraham

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Re: Liverpool v Porto (CL ) - Wed 24 Nov 8pm - Pre Match Thread
« Reply #157 on: November 24, 2021, 01:41:54 am »
Reckon the boss starts with Sadio. Mo on the bench. Comes on 2nd half, fuming. Bags a brace. After Sadio had already scored a scorcher. first half. How boss would that be? Jurgen's been all over Sadio recently. Bigging him up.
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And treat those two imposters just the same

Offline vivabobbygraham

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Re: Liverpool v Porto (CL ) - Wed 24 Nov 8pm - Pre Match Thread
« Reply #158 on: November 24, 2021, 01:49:29 am »
A lot of players have been overplayed this season already. Most haven't had any rest at all.

You can argue they are on megabucks and fuck them, but injury problems quite often mount up when you haven't had a chance to factor in the correct level of recovery time.

Us being able to rest most of the first team is really a massive chance to get some of those niggly injuries, strains and tiredness out of the system and a good time to then crack on with it over the Christmas period.

Too early to worry about tired legs. They'd rather play than train, mate. It's end of December early January it could come on top. Until then this squad is ready and whatever team we put out tomorrow, we'll win. Cos that's the Liverpool way.
...If you can meet with triumph and disaster
And treat those two imposters just the same

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Re: Liverpool v Porto (CL ) - Wed 24 Nov 8pm - Pre Match Thread
« Reply #159 on: November 24, 2021, 04:35:14 am »
If Salah or Virgil got injured that 2m would mean feck all.

I suggest you listen to Jurgens prematch presser when asked about Jota and him getting injured in a dead rubber CL match last season.

Let's just say, Jurgen thought it was a stupid question.

About 13:49 in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fr9EapUm518
« Last Edit: November 24, 2021, 04:39:02 am by 4pool »
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