Topic: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD - 2023 (FSG posts = get muted) - No Mbappé

[Coolie High]

He just shouldn't be thrown in at RCM. He's a 10. Always was, always will be. Could do a job coming inside from the left into attacking midfield but he's a 10. Will benefit most from Slot's 4-2-3-1.

Sure doesn’t play like a 10.

[disgraced cake]

I don't think we need big changes. We need to get to the next stage of our build

Is it a big summer, maybe. Hopefully. But at the same time we may be more incremental.

I don't think we are going in the wrong direction, as much as these last few weeks are bad the season as a whole is a big step the right way. So long as we keep going forward I am happy, be that quickly or over the course of a few seasons so long as I can see the movement forward I am ok with jt

To me it just feels like a few mainstays of the side, club legends, are officially past their best at the same time Klopp is going. Van Dijk/Salah/Robertson, none are the same. Then there's others I struggle to see us winning titles/European Cups with who have joined in recent years, Nunez/Diaz for sure and the jury really looks out with Szoboszlai right about now. We don't know if Trent is going to stay amidst all that, and our best finisher is made out of biscuits. There's a lot of question marks about the whole thing for me, I'm hoping to be put at ease in the summer and beyond.

The manager changing is obviously a big part with it all. God we need him to be good, we need Edwards to be good too. There's a lot to work with in this squad but I feel pretty intently that these next few years are going to be massively transitional. I've raised it a few times on the manager thread, but it's why they should have favoured a more experienced option I feel, even though they never would. Hopefully Slot can be that man to guide us through a patchy end to Klopp's days and come out looking brighter on the other side.

[Draex]

He just shouldn't be thrown in at RCM. He's a 10. Always was, always will be. Could do a job coming inside from the left into attacking midfield but he's a 10. Will benefit most from Slot's 4-2-3-1.

A 10? He can’t pass or work the ball under pressure.

[killer-heels]

He just shouldn't be thrown in at RCM. He's a 10. Always was, always will be. Could do a job coming inside from the left into attacking midfield but he's a 10. Will benefit most from Slot's 4-2-3-1.

Is he a 10? Really? Bit basic of a 10.

[buttersstotch]

I don't think we need big changes. We need to get to the next stage of our build

Is it a big summer, maybe. Hopefully. But at the same time we may be more incremental.

I don't think we are going in the wrong direction, as much as these last few weeks are bad the season as a whole is a big step the right way. So long as we keep going forward I am happy, be that quickly or over the course of a few seasons so long as I can see the movement forward I am ok with jt

Part of our problem is our style. The way we play is all very well and good but we play brain dead passes and the players are either not on the same wave length or they are easily intercepted. We seem to play patient build up and then play a risky pass, which is all good, but then we're not set up to defend. Clearly when teams get agressive, we are not good either and don't know how to cut through.

Like most, I don't think we need wholesale changes but clearly we have problems, a big #6 being the main one.

[Stockholm Syndrome]

Part of our problem is our style. The way we play is all very well and good but we play brain dead passes and the players are either not on the same wave length or they are easily intercepted. We seem to play patient build up and then play a risky pass, which is all good, but then we're not set up to defend. Clearly when teams get agressive, we are not good either and don't know how to cut through.

Like most, I don't think we need wholesale changes but clearly we have problems, a big #6 being the main one.

We are 1 year in to a rebuild. We ain't done yet

We clearly have problems but that's to be expected and addressed one would hope

I don't think we have to throw out the blueprints just yet, just keep building the house. We have the main structure up now let's get inside and do the details

[BobPaisley3]

We need to get our transfer mojo back. Since 2022 we have signed Gakpo, Nunez, Carvalho, Ramsey, Mac Allister, Endo, Szobozslai and Gravenberch and bar Mac Allister and Endo, there are question marks over nearly all of them.

They were not cheap either. Nunez and Szobozslai cost £60m each.

Carragher has just made this exact point.

[Stockholm Syndrome]

A 10? He can’t pass or work the ball under pressure.

I would say he is a creative attacking midfielder - 10 or 8 whatever you want to call it.

I think he is learning the extent of a PL season in this team and what it takes out of you. I think he is better next year for the full season

[Stockholm Syndrome]

Carragher has just made this exact point.

It's a fair point, it really is, but also to counter that, the spitting sky shill can kiss my sweaty balls for as much as I value his opinion

[PaleBlueDot]

A 10? He can’t pass or work the ball under pressure.

Is he a 10? Really? Bit basic of a 10.

Sure doesn’t play like a 10.

48 games for club and country last season. 3 of them in CM. Three. Rest in the number 10 or inside forward from the left. 33 G/A for club and country. One of the most dangerous young talents tearing it up at RB Leipzig with Nkunku.

Signs for us. Carries over his fine form until Klopp figures out he can run for days. Throws him in RCM to cover for Salah who doesn't track back and Trent playing inverted. Now he has put in more distance per minutes played than anyone else for us and is goosed. Rarely if ever have we seen him in the position to show off his attacking ability.

It's not rocket science he drops a 10/10 for Hungary every time he leaves us...with less defensive duties and freedom as a 10.

And if you guys need reminding - this is him before he joined - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDYMOcfbaSc

[Coolie High]

48 games for club and country last season. 3 of them in CM. Three. Rest in the number 10 or inside forward from the left. 33 G/A for club and country. One of the most dangerous young talents tearing it up at RB Leipzig with Nkunku.

Signs for us. Carries over his fine form until Klopp figures out he can run for days. Throws him in RCM to cover for Salah who doesn't track back and Trent playing inverted. Now he has put in more distance per minutes played than anyone else for us and is goosed. Rarely if ever have we seen him in the position to show off his attacking ability.

It's not rocket science he drops a 10/10 for Hungary every time he leaves us...with less defensive duties and freedom as a 10.

And if you guys need reminding - this is him before he joined - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDYMOcfbaSc

We see him in the right positions to show his attacking ability all the time, what are you on about? Maybe he is tired but he’s constantly in the right positions to show his ability, the same positions real number 10’s like Odegaard are in and play make from.

[killer-heels]

48 games for club and country last season. 3 of them in CM. Three. Rest in the number 10 or inside forward from the left. 33 G/A for club and country. One of the most dangerous young talents tearing it up at RB Leipzig with Nkunku.

Signs for us. Carries over his fine form until Klopp figures out he can run for days. Throws him in RCM to cover for Salah who doesn't track back and Trent playing inverted. Now he has put in more distance per minutes played than anyone else for us and is goosed. Rarely if ever have we seen him in the position to show off his attacking ability.

It's not rocket science he drops a 10/10 for Hungary every time he leaves us...with less defensive duties and freedom as a 10.

And if you guys need reminding - this is him before he joined - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDYMOcfbaSc

Safe to say the Bundesliga comes with quite a bit of tax.

[Garlic Red]

Maybe it is just the way he plays but I don't see Diaz as quick. Increasingly these last few days skillful as a dribbler, but I wouldn't say quick

He has pace, we just don’t utilise him that way. His dribbling style and cutting in means he looks slower than he is. If you want someone with pace to burn who can go past people then it has to be Neto. The injuries are the issue

[Clint Eastwood]

We have two of the fastest forwards in the league in Diaz and Nunez, we’ve got one of the fastest 8s in the world who can make runs from deep/wide, Jota isn’t slow and certainly plays quicker than his pace suggests, even Gakpo has deceptive pace but he isn’t as agile or ‘sharp’ shall we say like peak Mane and Salah.

Jib Salah off and bring someone with pace in and someone who can play the false 9 position a bit more like a 10. Salah offers moments and flashes of quality in each game, but he offers none of the rhythm Bobby brought to this side and the way he controlled the press from the front.

Diaz isn't fast in the same way you'd have considered Mane or Salah 'fast'. I think a big part of why we've been so uncharacteristically poor in transitions is because we don't have anyone breaking the lines, so we end up going sideways and slowing it down.

[Pistolero]

Hard not to feel completely hopeless after that tonight. I realise it sounds mad but we need big changes if we're to quickly re-establish ourselves as consistent challengers at the top end of the league and Europe.

I've never been so unsure about Van Dijk. If there was a buyer in the summer with big money I'd punt him. Salah, kills me to say it, and I've only seen it in the last month or so, but we'll never see him play consistently well again at the level we need IMO. Nunez hasn't improved anywhere near as much as we'd wanted him to, and Mac Allister is playing on himself in midfield.

At least two of the forwards have to go IMO. Thiago and another midfielder best leaving. Defence should be easier to rectify, start by moving Tsimikas on, making Robbo more of a squad player by buying the next Robbo. I like the look of Ait Nouri at Wolves, maybe start there. As for the midfield, need that illusive top level defensive mid to sit behind Mac Allister, and some more physical presence to take the ball forward to sit alongside him. As for the forward three, you could change all of them, I'm not even sure where to begin.

Those famous words are back once more ... we need a big summer. Get your doe back out John, and back this next manager/Michael Edwards. Go and buy a series of players across the park who can make an immediate impact at the highest of levels.

Good post mate. Completely agree

[PaleBlueDot]

We see him in the right positions to show his attacking ability all the time, what are you on about? Maybe he is tired but he’s constantly in the right positions to show his ability, the same positions real number 10’s like Odegaard are in and play make from.

You can't honestly watch us and think Szoboszlai and Odegaard have the same roles. I never said he's never in those positions but what do you think happens to a players form when they're playing in a totally different position?

Look at Mac in the last few games back as a 6. He's still in the 8 area when we're pushed up but his performances are night and day between the two positions.

[PaleBlueDot]

Safe to say the Bundesliga comes with quite a bit of tax.

I'm able to admit he's been as shit as anyone else in our team but some of these players have reasons whereas others just aren't good enough. He's in the former.

[Stockholm Syndrome]

Safe to say the Bundesliga comes with quite a bit of tax.

Would you call his signing a failure at this stage and move on

[killer-heels]

Would you call his signing a failure at this stage and move on

No absolutely not.

[disgraced cake]

Good post mate. Completely agree

Think it was you in the post match thread saying reputations have saved some of them, I feel the same way for a few. Perhaps one of Klopp's weaknesses bearing its head but some of these don't look like they'll ever get back to the level we need, where they once where. Big jobs ahead for Edwards/new manager. We need a bit of helpful arrogance back in this side, I look at the way Van Dijk is playing at the minute and believe it's just arrogance alone.

If they could all have raised their game to Mac Allister's level at the minute, fuck, what could have been.

[Coolie High]

You can't honestly watch us and think Szoboszlai and Odegaard have the same roles. I never said he's never in those positions but what do you think happens to a players form when they're playing in a totally different position?

Look at Mac in the last few games back as a 6. He's still in the 8 area when we're pushed up but his performances are night and day between the two positions.

They don’t have the same roles because they’re not the same player. But he gets in many of the similar positions Odegaard gets in but doesn’t have the same impact because he isn’t as cute on the ball. He’s touch isn’t as good, he doesn’t make intricate passes and his IQ and playmaking isn’t on the same level, you said he’s a 10 but I think how we’re using him is pretty close to what he actually is or what he’s attributes suggest he is. A roaming 8 who looks comfortable out wide, in Arsenals side of the last couple years I think Xhaka probably would have been the most comparable player to him but he just doesn’t have the same intensity and nous defensively, a much better athlete though then Xhaka was/is.

I don’t get how he is playing in a totally different  position either, didn’t you say he was an 8/10? People keep mentioning he played as forward for Leipzig but doesn’t seem like he would be a great forward at our club if we were to start trying him outwide in place of Salah or Diaz?

[rafathegaffa83]

I've never been so unsure about Van Dijk. If there was a buyer in the summer with big money I'd punt him. Salah, kills me to say it, and I've only seen it in the last month or so, but we'll never see him play consistently well again at the level we need IMO.

I've increasingly thought since Edwards came back with more control that there is a strong likelihood Salah will be gone in the summer and VVD will not get a contract extension. He's 33 in July in the last year of his contract.

[PaleBlueDot]

They don’t have the same roles because they’re not the same player. But he gets in many of the similar positions Odegaard gets in but doesn’t have the same impact because he isn’t as cute on the ball. He’s touch isn’t as good, he doesn’t make intricate passes and his IQ and playmaking isn’t on the same level, you said he’s a 10 but I think how we’re using him is pretty close to what he actually is or what he’s attributes suggest he is. A roaming 8 who looks comfortable out wide, in Arsenals side of the last couple years I think Xhaka probably would have been the most comparable player to him but he just doesn’t have the same intensity and nous defensively, a much better athlete though then Xhaka was/is.

I don’t get how he is playing in a totally different  position either, didn’t you say he was an 8/10? People keep mentioning he played as forward for Leipzig but doesn’t seem like he would be a great forward at our club if we were to start trying him outwide in place of Salah or Diaz?

I didn't say they were the same type of player. They aren't. Odegaard is more cute on the ball of course. Your 10s don't HAVE to be technical midgets like Coutinho/Maddison etc.

I never said he was an 8/10. He's a 10/LW/LAM. To say you think we're using him close to what he actually is shows me you haven't seen the best of him, that he's got a poor touch etc...shows me you're only going off what you've seen of him playing as a right sided 8 in our team. Fair enough, but I've watched him for 2 years straight before he joined us and I could tell you now you're wide off the mark. I mean Xhaka comparison? Dear me. I don't blame you...this season he's been shite but I hope the new manager coming in will be more clued up about his abilities.

[Clint Eastwood]

LB, RW, LW.

Edwards + Hughes need to find 2024's Robertson, Mane, Salah.

[RedSetGo]

There will be changes in the summer, more than probably we thought.

My worry is Trent. He goes away with England for the Euros, very likely he starts in midfield, playing with with Jude, his best friend. Jude will be trying to get Trent to think about joining him at RM. The Spanish club are building a really strong team - Jude last summer, Mbappe this summer, Trent next summer?

I hope I am wrong, but the fact that there is much change at LFC this summer, plus he's 25 now, Jude already at RM, the prospect of winning multiple trophies surely must appeal to him, even if its at another club?

My hope is that now that he's the local boy playing for his boyhood club, & will be captain when VVD leaves, that this is enough pull for him to extend.

Klopp leaving does not help this situation though.

[disgraced cake]

I agree with what you say about Trent and the allure of elsewhere but do Madrid by him to be their right back? I wouldn't. And they don't need him in midfield either. Interesting to see but have to hope he's attracted by the idea of the future with Liverpool. If not then best of luck elsewhere but I'll blame the club and not the player in that regard.

I've increasingly thought since Edwards came back with more control that there is a strong likelihood Salah will be gone in the summer and VVD will not get a contract extension. He's 33 in July in the last year of his contract.

Yeah, I can see him making the big decisions to move them on really. Salah I think goes this summer but not 100% sure on Van Dijk right away. I do think he has more years in him but I question his application at times. The whole theme of the summer is the future once again. Big job but he's got it in him.

[Coolie High]

I didn't say they were the same type of player. They aren't. Odegaard is more cute on the ball of course. Your 10s don't HAVE to be technical midgets like Coutinho/Maddison etc.

I never said he was an 8/10. He's a 10/LW/LAM. To say you think we're using him close to what he actually is shows me you haven't seen the best of him, that he's got a poor touch etc...shows me you're only going off what you've seen of him playing as a right sided 8 in our team. Fair enough, but I've watched him for 2 years straight before he joined us and I could tell you now you're wide off the mark. I mean Xhaka comparison? Dear me. I don't blame you...this season he's been shite but I hope the new manager coming in will be more clued up about his abilities.

Your comprehension skills are lacking. I said his touch isn’t as good as Odegaard not that he has a poor touch, I said rather than a 10 if I was to use another Arsenal player to compare him to role wise, it would be Xhaka. Xhaka is a very good player by the way and a better midfielder than Szoboszlai at the moment, his last two seasons including this one proves so.

What I don’t see is him being a great LW for us, maybe you’ve seen more than him but ideally you want your LW in a forward three to be a very good goalscorer, when has Szoboszlai proved to be such?

He hasn’t ever scored more than 10 goals in his career(league wise).

[PaleBlueDot]

Your comprehension skills are lacking. I said his touch isn’t as good as Odegaard not that he has a poor touch, I said rather than a 10 if I was to use another Arsenal player to compare him to role wise, it would be Xhaka. Xhaka is a very good player by the way and a better midfielder than Szoboszlai at the moment, his last two seasons including this one proves so.

What I don’t see is him being a great LW for us, maybe you’ve seen more than him but ideally you want your LW in a forward three to be a very good goalscorer, when has Szoboszlai proved to be such?

He hasn’t ever scored more than 10 goals in his career(league wise).

You said you don't think he's got the touch to play a 10. He does. Xhaka is a great player at the moment but no, they wouldn't and shouldn't be playing the same roles.

I wouldn't want him LW either but I'm just trying to explain where he was playing so well and why we bought him in the first place. It was not as an 8. Klopp for all his brilliance has misused him greatly.

Lastly on hitting 10 league goals. He joined us at 22(!). 33 G/A for club and country last season. And with having one of the best shots in the league, he'll score loads more in the right positions.

[Garlic Red]

Diaz isn't fast in the same way you'd have considered Mane or Salah 'fast'. I think a big part of why we've been so uncharacteristically poor in transitions is because we don't have anyone breaking the lines, so we end up going sideways and slowing it down.

I know what you’re trying to say, Diaz is fast, though. Mane and Salah were just much better threats operating in that high, inside forward role, whereas Diaz has done some good stuff there but tends to be at his best when he comes 5-10 yards deeper and can attack defenders and space in front of the defenders. I’d have thought Klopp would have been able to turn Diaz into more of an inside forward over time, I remember the goal in his first few months against Norwich that made it look like he’d be able to do it seamlessly but it hasn’t quite worked out that way.

Salah and Mane had the added advantage of being shorter, having the low centre of gravity and what I call ‘twitch’, which is like the ability to change directions at full speed, I always felt Kyle Walker could never deal with Mane because he just found his movement too elusive and difficult to predict. Their acceleration was also obviously elite whereas Diaz almost needs a few yards to get to top speed.

Darwin has undeniable pace so the idea we need a fast striker for me is redundant, we need a false 9 that can ask a different question of the centre backs in a low block, we’re far too predictable and lose the ball in good areas far more than we did when we had Bobby knitting things together in his prime. Watching Havertz finally get recognition at Arsenal shows me the position can be hugely important and the defensive solidity it brings from the front can’t be ignored. Hopefully Edwards can nudge Hughes/Slot into bringing in another Bobby, if such a thing exists, or looks at moulding one of the existing lads (Harvey? Dom? Danns?) into one.

[JRed]

Not been in here for a long time but I reckon it’s going to be the place to be over the summer!
As far as I can see we need a 3, a 5 , a 6, a 9 an 11. That’s my bingo card sorted.
Massive changes needed.

[Clint Eastwood]

A couple of months ago we were all talking about how good our squad was and all the options we have. I don't think huge changes are needed, but we need a few quality additions. Attack needs a rethink - two quality additions with a couple of departures. Midfield is fine. We could do with a LB.

[Draex]

There will be changes in the summer, more than probably we thought.

My worry is Trent. He goes away with England for the Euros, very likely he starts in midfield, playing with with Jude, his best friend. Jude will be trying to get Trent to think about joining him at RM. The Spanish club are building a really strong team - Jude last summer, Mbappe this summer, Trent next summer?

I hope I am wrong, but the fact that there is much change at LFC this summer, plus he's 25 now, Jude already at RM, the prospect of winning multiple trophies surely must appeal to him, even if its at another club?

My hope is that now that he's the local boy playing for his boyhood club, & will be captain when VVD leaves, that this is enough pull for him to extend.

Klopp leaving does not help this situation though.

If he wants to go then sell him, Bradley has been a better right back for the team this season and Trent is unproven as a midfielder, an area we are well stocked bar a young and elite no.6.

Edward’s has no sentiment, I can see a ruthless cull coming and the fact we didn’t win the league will make it far easier.

I expect one or two of Van Dijk, Salah, Robbo to move on.

Ideally I’d keep Robbo but he now can’t do 90mins a week, so a quality left back to rotate with him and eventually take over as the season progresses.

We need to replace Matip as well.

Our front line needs more pace and one on one ability.

How do you solve a problem like Darwin eh, pickles my head he does.

So a 6, a lb, a cb and a forward.

[Garlic Red]

A couple of months ago we were all talking about how good our squad was and all the options we have. I don't think huge changes are needed, but we need a few quality additions. Attack needs a rethink - two quality additions with a couple of departures. Midfield is fine. We could do with a LB.

I agree, the knee jerk reactions from some fans is daft. There’s no doubt we can upgrade some positions and if any leave they’ll need to be replaced, but considering everything we’ve been through as a team we can’t just react to the current malaise and think the transfer window fixes everything. Coaching, personal growth and collective chemistry will still be unbelievably important. I also think there’s a huge risk to giving a new manager loads of new signings when year 1 will very much be a proving period to ensure he’s the man for the next 5.

As always, I’d rather we focused on signing 2-4 top drawer players than run the risk of trying to bed in 5-6 because we ran out of gas in April. Salah leaving will obviously shape the entire summer. A 6 is the most important signing, a Matip replacement should be relatively easy and cheap, Salah’s replacement will be a challenge but I’m confident we do that well.

[Zlen]

We need legs. The new manager (if it's Slot) coming in will fall flat on his face if he tries to implement his style with this bunch of fair-weather running, 'I'll track back tomorrow' players. There are some who are capable and have the youth on their side to adapt, but boy there are plenty of passengers across all lines.

[killer-heels]

If he wants to go then sell him, Bradley has been a better right back for the team this season and Trent is unproven as a midfielder, an area we are well stocked bar a young and elite no.6.

Edward’s has no sentiment, I can see a ruthless cull coming and the fact we didn’t win the league will make it far easier.

I expect one or two of Van Dijk, Salah, Robbo to move on.

Ideally I’d keep Robbo but he now can’t do 90mins a week, so a quality left back to rotate with him and eventually take over as the season progresses.

We need to replace Matip as well.

Our front line needs more pace and one on one ability.

How do you solve a problem like Darwin eh, pickles my head he does.

So a 6, a lb, a cb and a forward.

Trent is our only world class player under 30. We let him go then we are fucking idiots.

[Knight]

You said you don't think he's got the touch to play a 10. He does. Xhaka is a great player at the moment but no, they wouldn't and shouldn't be playing the same roles.

I wouldn't want him LW either but I'm just trying to explain where he was playing so well and why we bought him in the first place. It was not as an 8. Klopp for all his brilliance has misused him greatly.

Lastly on hitting 10 league goals. He joined us at 22(!). 33 G/A for club and country last season. And with having one of the best shots in the league, he'll score loads more in the right positions.

You’re still on this? He’s not a wide forward in our system. Which means he’s an 8. 8s are our attacking midfielders in many ways and his role never changed this season - he’s been playing as our right sided 8 basically all season. If he can only play in a very particular role (which doesn’t exist in any top team in England btw) he’s not going to cut it. So he needs to learn to be an 8.

[Bennett]

The longer the season has gone on, the high-fiving over "dodging a bullet" in Caicedo and getting in bargain Endo has bitten us in the arse. The contrast between Rice, Rodri and Endo in arguably the most important position of the pitch sums up why we finish 3rd in this league. Nothing against Endo, fair play to him. He has plugged a gap, but if we've got a budget, I'd be throwing the biggest portion of it on an athletic 6.

[killer-heels]

The longer the season has gone on, the high-fiving over "dodging a bullet" in Caicedo and getting in bargain Endo has bitten us in the arse. The contrast between Rice, Rodri and Endo in arguably the most important position of the pitch sums up why we finish 3rd in this league. Nothing against Endo, fair play to him. He has plugged a gap, but if we've got a budget, I'd be throwing the biggest portion of it on an athletic 6.

Dont agree, the biggest amount of money needs always to be spent at the top end of the field.

[Knight]

The longer the season has gone on, the high-fiving over "dodging a bullet" in Caicedo and getting in bargain Endo has bitten us in the arse. The contrast between Rice, Rodri and Endo in arguably the most important position of the pitch sums up why we finish 3rd in this league. Nothing against Endo, fair play to him. He has plugged a gap, but if we've got a budget, I'd be throwing the biggest portion of it on an athletic 6.

I suspect Klopp would have got a tune out of Caicedo but it could genuinely be both. We dodged a bullet not getting Caicedo and the opportunity cost in getting Endo was too high. Albeit who we could actually have got isn't really clear. For me I'm not sure we can afford to buy more midfielders, we need to focus on the defence and the attack. So we really, really need Bacjetic to fulfil his potential next year and his body to allow him to start 20+ league games.

[Bennett]

Dont agree, the biggest amount of money needs always to be spent at the top end of the field.

Just reinvest the money from the Nunez sale there.