Topic: Naby Keita Watch

[BabuYagu]

Rafa, one of the most tactically astute managers, consider him to be able to dictate the tempo and follow tactical instructions in defense and offense. However, people have always read between the lines that Rafa didn't consider so because he played him in different positions. The truth is, Gerrard was able to perform at a high level and adjust tactically to a number of positions, which was why Rafa trusted him. He wasn't moved around because he was not good tactically.

On this, I think you are confusing the order of things somewhat here.

Gerrard became that player under Rafa by being moved around and also coached. That was abundantly clear by watching pre-Rafa Gerrard in midfield and then post-Rafa Gerrard. Gerrard was physically and technically world class when Gerrard arrived. But the tactical side of the game was clearly a weakness at the time which was addressed and improved upon quickly. Gerrards Technical and Physical sides of his game didn't improve during Rafa, if anything he physically declined due to injuries. Tactically he came on massively and went from being an average output midfielder to an elite output one and very quickly too simply as he had a lot of room for improvement there.

But this also makes sense when you look at British midfielders as a whole. They aren't getting the tactical sides of their game developed to anywhere the same level as a Spanish, French, German or Italian would. So why would Gerrard be different coming through the youth team? He wasn't, he had the same weakness that all other kids coming through the academies had an needed someone to build up that part of his game with him. People thought 2004 Gerrard was a finished product and Rafa saw there was several more levels he go up in his game where nobody else did.

[BabuYagu]

With as much of a handicap in tactical intelligence as mentioned here, you would think he was a headless chicken and these are said about a completely different player with all the superlatives being thrown around. 

I don't think he means that. You are looking at some white/black scale here whereas it's more of a scale and on the three areas of his game, tactical that was his weakest. You can talk about world class players weaknesses though, it's fine.

For example, Messi v Ronaldo. They are the two best players of this generation, yet very different. Tactically one of them is much better than the other. One just had it from the moment he broke into first team football. The other built up that side of his game at United (likely Meulensteen's work). Ronaldo was always a physical and technical beast of a player. Messi was always a Technically and Tactically a beast of a player who had a burst of acceleration, good core strength and low center of gravity but nowhere near as physically gifted as Ronaldo. Messi will never see the game or play the game like Ronaldo does. Or vice versa. They each thrive against different sorts of opponents. Simeone can usually do a good job against Madrid for example in keeping Bale & Ronaldo quiet as they both thrive in space and comparatively struggle (as much as world class technical players can struggle) when you remain compact. In those games the likes of Modric, and recently, Isco tend to be the key to unlocking them. Then once the game opens up a little, Ronaldo can run riot on them. *

World class players are all different and all have weaknesses. Having a conversation about the weakness of Gerrard doesn't have to be a problem. The ability to mask any weaknesses in your game by imposing your will on opponents and playing to your strengths rather than let them expose those weaknesses is usually what sets apart the world class players from the rest.

* and again, this doesn't mean Ronaldo is shit against compact sides. Because this isn't black/white world where if I say he wasn't as good as Messi = shite. Just that he struggles against them more than Messi.

[jason67]

For someone that claims to know everything about the game I've got an idea for you, how about watching it?

[Doc Red]

Less Gerrard and more Keita, please.
Gerrard's time is done and over.

[BabuYagu]

For someone that claims to know everything about the game I've got an idea for you, how about watching it?

If you disagree with something someone says, debate it. Don't attack them.

Did Gerrard improve as a player under Rafa?
If yes, did he improve physically?
Did he improve technically?
Or did he improve tactically?

Because it has to be one of those 3. And the same is true of all players. Are Messi and Ronaldo the same? If no, how are they different? What was Ronaldo's weaknesses early in his United career? Which of those above words categorizes those weaknesses? etc.

All world class players have weaknesses in their games. All world class teams have weaknesses too. The key is imposing your will on sides to force them to play the game to your strengths rather than your own weaknesses. This is why Klopp's tactics are so effective as he very forcefully imposing the will of his team on the opposition. Simeone is equally effective as he does likewise albeit in an entirely different way to Klopp. Pep's Barca side was the same, but also completely different. And each of those words underpins everything each of those sides is doing. It doesn't mean they are shite or not well rounded sides, just that one of those words is most prominent in describing each.

[Keith Lard]

At the end of the City game watch how everyone will be begging for the Keita signing to be brought forward to January

[Doc Red]

At the end of the City game watch how everyone will be begging for the Keita signing to be brought forward to January

In fairness, some of us have been begging for him to come all summer.

[jason67]

If you disagree with something someone says, debate it. Don't attack them.

I'm really not arsed about your analysis of the game, I'm sure it's all very interesting and has great value to many people.

I meant how about watching the game when it's live instead of posting during it?

[BabuYagu]

I'm really not arsed about your analysis of the game, I'm sure it's all very interesting and has great value to many people.

I meant how about watching the game when it's live instead of posting during it?

I live in Brazil between an ocean and canal surrounded by a forest with a 1mb/s internet connection. This makes watching the game live effectively impossible as most streams bandwidth far exceed my capabilities. Therefore, I wait until the game is available to download, then do so. I post on threads where I am unlikely to see the outcome of the game until I have done so (e.g. Keita thread, Film Thread, Tiny Handed Twat thread etc).

[jason67]

I live in Brazil between an ocean and canal surrounded by a forest with a 1mb/s internet connection. This makes watching the game live effectively impossible as most streams bandwidth far exceed my capabilities. Therefore, I wait until the game is available to download, then do so. I post on threads where I am unlikely to see the outcome of the game until I have done so (e.g. Keita thread, Film Thread, Tiny Handed Twat thread etc).

Fair enough.
But you can understand my confusion with a guy that can pull stats and heat maps out of his arse in less than 10 seconds of asking about the last 2,000 years of a leftback.... yet can't seem to be able to watch a live game.

[BabuYagu]

Fair enough.
But you can understand my confusion with a guy that can pull stats and heat maps out of his arse in less than 10 seconds of asking about the last 2,000 years of a leftback.... yet can't seem to be able to watch a live game.

I can indeed. What I cannot understand is why that person fills in that knowledge gap with the assumption that I just don't watch the game by choice rather than just ask, then chooses to attack that person. Each to their own though.

[Djozer]

I live in Brazil between an ocean and canal surrounded by a forest with a 1mb/s internet connection. This makes watching the game live effectively impossible as most streams bandwidth far exceed my capabilities. Therefore, I wait until the game is available to download, then do so. I post on threads where I am unlikely to see the outcome of the game until I have done so (e.g. Keita thread, Film Thread, Tiny Handed Twat thread etc).

Not sure I'd bother with this one, if I were you.

[Kopenhagen]

Yep a 5ft 8 CM partnership would be great


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[jason67]

Each to their own though.

Ok. No more from me.

[jason67]

Not sure I'd bother with this one, if I were you.

Haha! Nice one.
Judging by how many times you've quoted babo, I half expect you'd agree with him when he comes out to say that Andrew Ridgeley was the true genius behind Wham! and not that other guy, using stats of course....     

[Djozer]

Haha! Nice one.
Judging by how many times you've quoted babo, I half expect you'd agree with him when he comes out to say that Andrew Ridgeley was the true genius behind Wham! and not that other guy, using stats of course....     

But Andrew Ridgeley was the true genius behind Wham!, I don't need Mr Yagu and his infinite array of statistics, tables and flowcharts to prove that...

I was telling him not to bother with the match (for obvious reasons!) not you, I hope that was clear as I couldn't quite tell from your post, in no way was I taking sides in whatever argument you guys are having, I don't tend to follow this thread too closely apart from watching videos of the little superhuman. And I do quote Babuyagu a lot, and should probably stop actually - he's might get a restraining order out on me. He's got a lot of views on footy that I find interesting and it's entirely possible it's all bollocks but a lot of what he says sounds pretty plausible to me and it's presented with loads of charts and pictures and graphs and pretty colours and stuff.

If you can see your way to festooning your posts with similar bells and whistles then I promise to quote you more too.

[jason67]

But Andrew Ridgeley was the true genius behind Wham!, I don't need Mr Yagu and his infinite array of statistics, tables and flowcharts to prove that...

I was telling him not to bother with the match (for obvious reasons!) not you, I hope that was clear as I couldn't quite tell from your post, in no way was I taking sides in whatever argument you guys are having, I don't tend to follow this thread too closely apart from watching videos of the little superhuman. And I do quote Babuyagu a lot, and should probably stop actually - he's might get a restraining order out on me. He's got a lot of views on footy that I find interesting and it's entirely possible it's all bollocks but a lot of what he says sounds pretty plausible to me and it's presented with loads of charts and pictures and graphs and pretty colours and stuff.

If you can see your way to festooning your posts with similar bells and whistles then I promise to quote you more too.

Ok, sorry I'll take it back.

Bells and whistles...... I'll have to come up with something as I never get quoted....

But Andrew Ridgeley...?  I think we need to have a chat about that some other time.... 

[Djozer]

Ok, sorry I'll take it back.

Bells and whistles...... I'll have to come up with something as I never get quoted....

But Andrew Ridgeley...?  I think we need to have a chat about that some other time.... 

Here ya go, mate  .

I would quote you loads for shits and giggles but I need to run to the shop before it closes so I can get enough alcohol to put myself into a stupor and forget all about today's horrorshow.

And yeah, Andrew Ridgeley. Unsung genius and musical titan, and don't you forget it!

[BabuYagu]

Not sure I'd bother with this one, if I were you.

HT now. Feel a spanking coming on. Something of a perfect storm happening in this one.

[McrRed]

HT now. Feel a spanking coming on. Something of a perfect storm happening in this one.

How's it going Babu? We ahead yet?

[BabuYagu]

How's it going Babu? We ahead yet?

Thought we were looking the better chances up until their goal - which pissed me off by the way as I think that was a foul on Gini, Can went walkabouts leaving De Bruyne goalside, too much space between the lines and our defensive line was all over the place. Just a clusterfuck of errors and possibly a foul - seen them given at least. 1-0 you are still in it although usually who scores first in those games comes out on top. The red card killed us. Unlucky on Mane who had his eyes on teh ball the whole time - dangerous play though so no arguments. Just think he was unlucky and probably didn't know the keeper was there or plannign to head the thing. 2-0 with our entire team defending the near post, Moreno far post and half the City team in between. Was this some brave new centerbackless formation? It didn't work. Glad we decided to switch from 0 to 3 center backs second half. Even if one of them wandered

Oh well. Sevilla next. At least Mane, Salah & Firmino will all be pretty fresh for it

[Samie]

Can we not just pay an extra 50 mill and get the fucker for the Seville game? I mean we do own his registration now.

[harleydanger]

On this, I think you are confusing the order of things somewhat here.

Gerrard became that player under Rafa by being moved around and also coached. That was abundantly clear by watching pre-Rafa Gerrard in midfield and then post-Rafa Gerrard. Gerrard was physically and technically world class when Gerrard arrived. But the tactical side of the game was clearly a weakness at the time which was addressed and improved upon quickly. Gerrards Technical and Physical sides of his game didn't improve during Rafa, if anything he physically declined due to injuries. Tactically he came on massively and went from being an average output midfielder to an elite output one and very quickly too simply as he had a lot of room for improvement there.

But this also makes sense when you look at British midfielders as a whole. They aren't getting the tactical sides of their game developed to anywhere the same level as a Spanish, French, German or Italian would. So why would Gerrard be different coming through the youth team? He wasn't, he had the same weakness that all other kids coming through the academies had an needed someone to build up that part of his game with him. People thought 2004 Gerrard was a finished product and Rafa saw there was several more levels he go up in his game where nobody else did.

Yep, early Gerrard used to vacate his position like Ramsey does for Arsenal, the main reason they get destroyed by big teams when he plays. The big difference being early Gerrard had the engine and actual sheer will power to get back alot of the time and make some ridiculous tackle to save the day. Rafa did well to change that as best he could. (and when he couldn't he bought Mash lol)

[Barefoot Doctor]

Yep a 5ft 8 CM partnership would be great


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

We played most of last season with a pairing of Wijnaldum and Lallana, who are 5'9 and 5'8 respectively.

[Chalky Boots]

Yep, early Gerrard used to vacate his position like Ramsey does for Arsenal, the main reason they get destroyed by big teams when he plays. The big difference being early Gerrard had the engine and actual sheer will power to get back alot of the time and make some ridiculous tackle to save the day. Rafa did well to change that as best he could. (and when he couldn't he bought Mash lol)

Yeah it used to be a weekly occurrence with Gerrard. I mean you look at that gif there & it was only 0-0 against united and our midfield is completely vacated but Gerrard is able to recover the situation by just being an absolute physical freak.

But obviously that was why Rafa moved him out wide & then to 10 was to channel that in a better way with a greater sense of tactical responsibility to his role.


But back to Keita and I honestly would love it if we could somehow get him in earlier, I think his talent and natural ability to read situations on the pitch would take the midfield up another level.

[BabuYagu]

Yeah it used to be a weekly occurrence with Gerrard. I mean you look at that gif there & it was only 0-0 against united and our midfield is completely vacated but Gerrard is able to recover the situation by just being an absolute physical freak.

But obviously that was why Rafa moved him out wide & then to 10 was to channel that in a better way with a greater sense of tactical responsibility to his role.


But back to Keita and I honestly would love it if we could somehow get him in earlier, I think his talent and natural ability to read situations on the pitch would take the midfield up another level.

Not just that, but the most on their toes, quick and agile a midfield is, the more compact it will be to play through as the space around players safe to play through decreases. Keita in particular here is outrageous.

[wige]

That is an incredible post. Goosebumps at certain points. Bravo

[istvan kozma]

PoetryInMotion, don't forget to pick up the mic you just dropped.

[d.arn]

 

Great post. Miss watching him play.

[Hendollama]

 

[ToneLa]

Came in wondering what there was to say about Naby today, got a belting reminder of Stevie G!

[Bergersrightwingviews]

I live in Brazil between an ocean and canal surrounded by a forest.

You lucky bastard. It sounds fantastic. What do you do out there may I ask?

[Yanwoo]

But back to Keita and I honestly would love it if we could somehow get him in earlier, I think his talent and natural ability to read situations on the pitch would take the midfield up another level.

It’ll be even better for the wait 

[killer-heels]

You lucky bastard. It sounds fantastic. What do you do out there may I ask?

Probably spends his time avoiding getting bitten by snakes, spiders and other horrid things.

[BabuYagu]

You lucky bastard. It sounds fantastic. What do you do out there may I ask?

1/2 foot long centipedes, rats, snakes and aligators are common to see things with the canal. As well as huge vultures landing on your roof. Found out there is a lizard living in my bathroom this morning as there is a little egg under a furniture in there. We also have massive hornets which I hear may contain the cure for cancer. Their sting is no joke.


It's not really forest, more secondary jungle. Trees no more than 10ft and every space has something growing. Usually those huge grass plants that grow about 8ft in height and need a machete taking to them once a week or so. Cutting the grass out here is a fucking job!

I'm a freelance translator/transcriber. Thinking about getting into writing/analytics as something to do during the light periods (Dec-April I usually have little to no money coming in). And also incase google ever get their shit together to make a translation app that isn't laughably shite

[BabuYagu]

Probably spends his time avoiding getting bitten by snakes, spiders and other horrid things.

Not far wrong. Weirdly, it's good having snakes around as it means there is no rats. Centipede & hornet bites are the two worst things I've experienced so far here. Not to mention the daily 5-10 mosquito bites.

[Chakan]

Not far wrong. Weirdly, it's good having snakes around as it means there is no rats. Centipede & hornet bites are the two worst things I've experienced so far here. Not to mention the daily 5-10 mosquito bites.

Snakes I can handle, Spiders not so much.

[BabuYagu]

Snakes I can handle, Spiders not so much.

Saw a standoff between my dog and a snake one morning when I woke up. Vulture was standing on a post nearby waiting to see which one lunch would be. Also had an orange jumping spider in the bathroom, was about 2 inches in diameter. Still haven't found anything like it googling.

[Chakan]

Saw a standoff between my dog and a snake one morning when I woke up. Vulture was standing on a post nearby waiting to see which one lunch would be. Also had an orange jumping spider in the bathroom, was about 2 inches in diameter. Still haven't found anything like it googling.

I used to have a green snake living in the tree above my doorway when I rented a place on a farm. Had a normal garden snake under my welcome mat, and had flat spiders running around the room. Baboon spiders were the worst!! I also had an encounter with a red roman spider which decided to chase me around the camp fire.

[BabuYagu]

I used to have a green snake living in the tree above my doorway when I rented a place on a farm. Had a normal garden snake under my welcome mat, and had flat spiders running around the room. Baboon spiders were the worst!! I also had an encounter with a red roman spider which decided to chase me around the camp fire.

Sounds a fun way to spend the evening. Having been bitten by a centipede, I've a phobia of them now. I got lucky as I was only bitten by a kid. An adult can hospitalize and even kill.