Topic: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!

[Fitzy.]

Fair enough mate 

I was just speaking from experience and know how things like that can make myself more invested, my fault for not knowing it was a nothing link though.

👍

[Eeyore]

Amazing you get a shocking performance from Coote in which he is booed off at halftime and instead of coming on here and acknowledging that. What we get is the usual suspects looking to make in-jokes backing each other up and basically making the thread unreadable.

If you don't want to discuss the real issues then maybe stick to PM's or create your own Whats App group.

[Fitzy.]

Amazing you get a shocking performance from Coote in which he is booed off at halftime and instead of coming on here and acknowledging that. What we get is the usual suspects looking to make in-jokes backing each other up and basically making the thread unreadable.

If you don't want to discuss the real issues then maybe stick to PM's or create your own Whats App group.

Let’s get one thing clear, these boards are not designed for fun. It’s serious business with no room for bon ami…now answer the question: how do you explain the Diaz debacle in September?

[Yorkykopite]

Yes, pull yourselves together lads. Time to gets serious.

So....Fitzy, you've been accused of being too close to PGMOL because you were once married to a referee's daughter. Are you part of the conspiracy or merely a hired hand to defend the refs?

[Eeyore]

Yeah but Coote is a dunce and probably takes him time to comprehend what is being said. There actual confirmation on what was happening in the first half?

The referee didn't even give a free kick though and neither assistant referee flagged. The one on that side was 50 yards behind play in the other half. Which just leaves the assistant on the opposite side of the pitch. Macca runs five yards retrieves the ball and is on his third touch before Coote blows.

[Draex]

Yes, pull yourselves together lads. Time to gets serious.

So....Fitzy, you've been accused of being too close to PGMOL because you were once married to a referee's daughter. Are you part of the conspiracy or merely a hired hand to defend the refs?

Fitzy is a FSG plant put into the PMGOL sphere to create a distraction from a lack of funding into the club by our owners.

[Jm55]

The referee didn't even give a free kick though and neither assistant referee flagged. The one on that side was 50 yards behind play in the other half. Which just leaves the assistant on the opposite side of the pitch. Macca runs five yards retrieves the ball and is on his third touch before Coote blows.

Out of interest what is it that you think happened?

The replay shows minimal contact between Mac Allister and the Brighton player, it’s barely a foul and certainly not a booking. Are you of the opinion that Tierney watching on VAR has told him to book him for a that challenge with the benefit of video replay and if so, what do you think happens when Coote watches it back and sees the tackle that was actually committed?

I assumed when Carragher was saying someone had said something to him he meant the lino, the broadcasters do get the VAR feedback but only if they choose to turn it up I think.

[darragh85]

It will get more blatant from here on in. A perfect goaded ruled out again . Hard to believe really

If we lose the title by a narrow margin then there needs to be repercussions for the spurs game alone. I feel the club are holding that in the back pocket.

[Eeyore]

Let’s get one thing clear, these boards are not designed for fun. It’s serious business with no room for bon ami…now answer the question: how do you explain the Diaz debacle in September?

No, you started this thread with a closed mind. Now all that is happening is that you and your cronies are ridiculing fellow reds who have the temerity to raise points regarding whether we are being refereed fairly. I suppose the Reds at the game who roundly booed Coote off at halftime after a truly abject and biased performance were only doing it because of social media.

For me, it was an incompetent and biased performance. There wasn't a level playing field in terms of decision making. 

[Redley]

Out of interest what is it that you think happened?

The replay shows minimal contact between Mac Allister and the Brighton player, it’s barely a foul and certainly not a booking. Are you of the opinion that Tierney watching on VAR has told him to book him for a that challenge with the benefit of video replay and if so, what do you think happens when Coote watches it back and sees the tackle that was actually committed?

I assumed when Carragher was saying someone had said something to him he meant the lino, the broadcasters do get the VAR feedback but only if they choose to turn it up I think.

The implication from Carragher was that VAR was involved in the decision. The linesman in that half of the pitch was working the other side so it’d be an odd call for either of them to be involved in

[Fitzy.]

Yes, pull yourselves together lads. Time to gets serious.

So....Fitzy, you've been accused of being too close to PGMOL because you were once married to a referee's daughter. Are you part of the conspiracy or merely a hired hand to defend the refs?

My lawyer has told me to not answer this.

[Fitzy.]

No, you started this thread with a closed mind. Now all that is happening is that you and your cronies are ridiculing fellow reds who have the temerity to raise points regarding whether we are being refereed fairly. I suppose the Reds at the game who roundly booed Coote off at halftime after a truly abject and biased performance were only doing it because of social media.

For me, it was an incompetent and biased performance. There wasn't a level playing field in terms of decision making. 

Leave my cronies out of this. They needn’t suffer for my closed mind.

[Mister Flip Flop]

Can somebody clarify if the VAR officials can tell the referee to give a player a card or not. Like do they have that influence if they perceive the onfield referee has missed something.


That yellow for Macca seemed very suspect yesterday

[Timbo's Goals]

They were saying whatever they thought it would take for the bloke in the tin foil hat to leave them alone

 

Ha ha. 
Must admit I did think twice about taking it off but thought fuck it. In fer a penny...
 

[Fitzy.]

Can somebody clarify if the VAR officials can tell the referee to give a player a card or not. Like do they have that influence if they perceive the onfield referee has missed something.


That yellow for Macca seemed very suspect yesterday

My understanding is that they can intervene with penalties, red cards and off sides. Adjudicating yellows is beyond their brief.

[Historical Fool]

I’m playing 5D chess and got everyone on strings, enjoying the spectacle…

And that is why Fitzy is the true GOAT.

[Pistolero]

Was convinced MacAllister was goanner be dismissed for two yellows yesterday....that booking was suss as fuck and smacked of mutterings in the ear of bent c*nt Coote.....Tierney obviously not ready to see Jurgen depart without a final twist of the knife....

[Fitzy.]

And that is why Fitzy is the true GOAT.

Needed that. Totes appreesh!

[Jm55]

Can somebody clarify if the VAR officials can tell the referee to give a player a card or not. Like do they have that influence if they perceive the onfield referee has missed something.


That yellow for Macca seemed very suspect yesterday

My understanding is no, absolutely not.

[GreatEx]

The only involvement VAR can have in yellow cards is to alert the ref of mistaken identity

[Kloppage Time]

My understanding is no, absolutely not.

The assistant ref (Linesman) suggested the yellow, he is allowed advise/inform the ref, no conspiracy, wrong yes, corrupt no.

[Son of Spion]

Gosh, that’s well-remembered.

Just hope nobody finds out about my trips to Epstein Island…

Well, I've heard you've got Prince Andrew's phone number on your mobile.

I can't reveal my sources though.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

After 15 minutes of the game yesterday, the whole of the Kop and most of the ground were chanting 'cheat cheat cheat cheat' - as the referee left the pitch at half time, he was roundly booed by the entire ground.

I wonder how those that have been sucking Howard Webb off and fondling his testicles felt about that? Do they actually go to the game? If they did then did they angrily turn around and start shouting at the 50 odd thousand Liverpool fans at Anfield they they were all tin-foil hat wearing dickheads? Why didn't they storm to the front of the Kop and tell every Liverpool fan in the ground that they were a c*nt?

In the place where I sit - quite often not that het up compared to some areas of the ground, there were shouts all through the game that the Ref was a fucking cheat. He was looking the other way, before turning around and giving the foul, his antics with the balls where the Kop was - laughable. He didn't once make any motion or response when they time wasted at 1-0 up. When we equalised, he looked properly pissed off and when we were ahead - he was gesturing to get on with it, pointing at his watch and looking more like a fucking petulant bought c*nt the more the game went on.

But you keep sticking up for these absolute arseholes and telling every match-going fan that they are a fucking c*nt.

[Jm55]

After 15 minutes of the game yesterday, the whole of the Kop and most of the ground were chanting 'cheat cheat cheat cheat' - as the referee left the pitch at half time, he was roundly booed by the entire ground.

I wonder how those that have been sucking Howard Webb off and fondling his testicles felt about that? Do they actually go to the game? If they did then did they angrily turn around and start shouting at the 50 odd thousand Liverpool fans at Anfield they they were all tin-foil hat wearing dickheads? Why didn't they storm to the front of the Kop and tell every Liverpool fan in the ground that they were a c*nt?

In the place where I sit - quite often not that het up compared to some areas of the ground, there were shouts all through the game that the Ref was a fucking cheat. He was looking the other way, before turning around and giving the foul, his antics with the balls where the Kop was - laughable. He didn't once make any motion or response when they time wasted at 1-0 up. When we equalised, he looked properly pissed off and when we were ahead - he was gesturing to get on with it, pointing at his watch and looking more like a fucking petulant bought c*nt the more the game went on.

But you keep sticking up for these absolute arseholes and telling every match-going fan that they are a fucking c*nt.

I go to the game mate; admittedly not so many of the home league games but most of the cups home and away domestically and the European homes. Not that that makes my opinion on this any more valid than anyone else’s.

As someone who has been going for a long time which I know you have, surely you know that a partisan fanbase being annoyed with a referee and signing words to that effect is a symptom virtually as old as the game itself?

‘You’re not fit to referee’
‘The referee’s a wanker’
‘Whose the bastard in the black’

Etc etc etc are all well versed terrace chants, I’ve called the referee a c*nt myself on countless occasions, in fact I do it virtually every match whether I’m there or not. Of course nobody other than a raving lunatic is going to turn around and call people in the stands tin foil hat wearing c*nts because being frustrated with a shit refereeing performance and airing that frustration is anything but being a tin foil hat conspiracy theorist, it’s the most normal reaction imaginable.

There’s a world of difference between doing that and going on a message board days after the match writing substantial posts on how everything is bent and how the referees or PGMOL are in Abu Dhabi’s pocket though.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

I go to the game mate; admittedly not so many of the home league games but most of the cups home and away domestically and the European homes. Not that that makes my opinion on this any more valid than anyone else’s.

As someone who has been going for a long time which I know you have, surely you know that a partisan fanbase being annoyed with a referee and signing words to that effect is a symptom virtually as old as the game itself?

‘You’re not fit to referee’
‘The referee’s a wanker’
‘Whose the bastard in the black’

Etc etc etc are all well versed terrace chants, I’ve called the referee a c*nt myself on countless occasions, in fact I do it virtually every match whether I’m there or not. Of course nobody other than a raving lunatic is going to turn around and call people in the stands tin foil hat wearing c*nts because being frustrated with a shit refereeing performance and airing that frustration is anything but being a tin foil hat conspiracy theorist, it’s the most normal reaction imaginable.

There’s a world of difference between doing that and going on a message board days after the match writing substantial posts on how everything is bent and how the referees or PGMOL are in Abu Dhabi’s pocket though.

I've been going since the 80s. I can't remember once where virtually the entire ground is chanting 'cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat ' after 15 minutes at Anfield.

Can you?

[Eeyore]

The assistant ref (Linesman) suggested the yellow, he is allowed advise/inform the ref, no conspiracy, wrong yes, corrupt no.

What do you mean by suggested the yellow?

Initially, there wasn't even a foul given. Macca ran 5 yards collected the ball turned and had three touches before the Referee gave a foul. The assistant on that side was in the other half and didn't flag. The other assistant was level with play but on the other side of the pitch and didn't flag.

Coote was in by far the best position to see the incident so even if one of the assistants bizarrely told Coote it was a yellow but didn't flag then surely that is the game being re-refereed by an assistant with a worse view. For me the likelihood is that Tierney had his mic open and was describing the game to the AVAR and Coote heard it.

Tierney probably said something like 'Foul on Adingra but Macallister not last man so no DOGSO'

[Jm55]

I've been going since the 80s. I can't remember once where virtually the entire ground is chanting 'cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat ' after 15 minutes at Anfield.

Can you?

Fairly sure it got sung at Riley a few times back in the 00s but I could be wrong, it’s not that long ago one of our players got in shit for photoshopping Webb wearing a United top.

My point really is that:

a) you’re making an assumption that anyone who holds a different view point to you on this doesn’t go to the match.

b) that people singing a song on a terrace, which by its very nature spreads off the back of often one or two people starting it is evidence that most people who go to the match agree with you.

C) that anyone is ‘sucking up’ to the referees, I can’t see one instance of anyone doing that, I think it’s largely agreed that they’re c*nts the only disagreement here is whether it’s bias, corruption, incompetence or a combination of more than one of those things, there’s even been significant conversation over what any of those words mean at a cellular level. I can’t find one instance of anyone sucking up to Webb or any of them unless you’re able to show me otherwise.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Fairly sure it got sung at Riley a few times back in the 00s but I could be wrong, it’s not that long ago one of our players got in shit for photoshopping Webb wearing a United top.

My point really is that:

a) you’re making an assumption that anyone who holds a different view point to you on this doesn’t go to the match.

b) that people singing a song on a terrace, which by its very nature spreads off the back of often one or two people starting it is evidence that most people who go to the match agree with you.

C) that anyone is ‘sucking up’ to the referees, I can’t see one instance of anyone doing that, I think it’s largely agreed that they’re c*nts the only disagreement here is whether it’s bias, corruption, incompetence or a combination of more than one of those things, there’s even been significant conversation over what any of those words mean at a cellular level. I can’t find one instance of anyone sucking up to Webb or any of them unless you’re able to show me otherwise.

That was the worst reffing performance - completely fucking bent that I've seen. Since the last time we played.

If you went yesterday then AGAIN at the game and after the fucking game - all anyone was talking about in the pub was how fucking bent the ref was.

These aren't people on a fucking message board. These are fucking people that go to the fucking game week in, week out and have been going for 30, 40, 50 years.

[vicar]

Its easy to get sucked in to the terrible ref shouts in the ground, but yesterday it felt somehow even worse.
I watched the whole game back last night after the bore-fest on sky and frankly it was even more biased decision making than i perceived watching it live. It felt like he was giving them ever foul when they fell over or was slightest contact, which it turns out he was. Not helped by them diving to the ground after every challenge. There are only about 2 challenges with any contact that he doesn't give them free kicks for, I believe 20 fouls given to them compared to 3-4 for us, which does not reflect the game.

The touch by Macca on their lad that led to a free kick and yellow was substantially less contact than the pull back on Nunez in the penalty area. But also the touch on the shoulder that led to a booking for Virgil was even worse. Mo was pulled back in the middle of the pitch, carry on.

I think Coote is a terrible ref, but it felt like today he was determined not to give us anything unless he had no choice.

[Eeyore]

Fairly sure it got sung at Riley a few times back in the 00s but I could be wrong, it’s not that long ago one of our players got in shit for photoshopping Webb wearing a United top.

My point really is that:

a) you’re making an assumption that anyone who holds a different view point to you on this doesn’t go to the match.

b) that people singing a song on a terrace, which by its very nature spreads off the back of often one or two people starting it is evidence that most people who go to the match agree with you.

C) that anyone is ‘sucking up’ to the referees, I can’t see one instance of anyone doing that, I think it’s largely agreed that they’re c*nts the only disagreement here is whether it’s bias, corruption, incompetence or a combination of more than one of those things, there’s even been significant conversation over what any of those words mean at a cellular level. I can’t find one instance of anyone sucking up to Webb or any of them unless you’re able to show me otherwise.

The Babel incident was in 2011 when Webb gave United a penalty and sent off Gerrard. Riley was a couple of decades ago. So the reality is that we only really react as a crowd if the referee has a really biased performance against us. Crucially both Webb and Riley were effectively in Ferguson's pocket.

They then ended up heading up the PGMOL.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

The Babel incident was in 2011 when Webb gave United a penalty and sent off Gerrard. Riley was a couple of decades ago. So the reality is that we only really react as a crowd if the referee has a really biased performance against us. Crucially both Webb and Riley were effectively in Ferguson's pocket.

They then ended up heading up the PGMOL.

It takes a special team to change football from a sport which involved players, managers, tactics, passion and excitement into a thing that is pretty much decided by officials that are supposed to be impartial not being impartial in every game they officiate.

For those saying 'This is Liverpool fans talking about Liverpool things - a Liverpool conspiracy' - how fucking thick are they? It's in every fucking game every fucking week. Week fucking in. Week fucking out.

[Eeyore]

Its easy to get sucked in to the terrible ref shouts in the ground, but yesterday it felt somehow even worse.
I watched the whole game back last night after the bore-fest on sky and frankly it was even more biased decision making than i perceived watching it live. It felt like he was giving them ever foul when they fell over or was slightest contact, which it turns out he was. Not helped by them diving to the ground after every challenge. There are only about 2 challenges with any contact that he doesn't give them free kicks for, I believe 20 fouls given to them compared to 3-4 for us, which does not reflect the game.

The touch by Macca on their lad that led to a free kick and yellow was substantially less contact than the pull back on Nunez in the penalty area. But also the touch on the shoulder that led to a booking for Virgil was even worse. Mo was pulled back in the middle of the pitch, carry on.

I think Coote is a terrible ref, but it felt like today he was determined not to give us anything unless he had no choice.

I agree completely.

The other thing is how can you have a level playing field when two games within hours of each other, involving the three teams who are going for the title are officiated in a totally different manner. Coote booked 5 Liverpool players and 8 in all during a game in which there was barely a bad tackle. That resulted in a stop-start game in which it was pretty much impossible for us to build up any momentum.

It also meant that both VVD and Macca were left walking a tightrope after completely innocuous challenges. It also means Endo is now on 8 yellows for the season and facing a suspension if he gets another couple of yellows before the 33rd game of the season.

Taylor on the other hand decided that he was going to let pretty much anything go in the City-Arsenal game. That meant there was zero chance of any players getting carded, sent off or missing any games. 

[Andy @ Allerton!]

I agree completely.

The other thing is how can you have a level playing field when two games within hours of each other, involving the three teams who are going for the title are officiated in a totally different manner. Coote booked 5 Liverpool players and 8 in all during a game in which there was barely a bad tackle. That resulted in a stop-start game in which it was pretty much impossible for us to build up any momentum.

It also meant that both VVD and Macca were left walking a tightrope after completely innocuous challenges. It also means Endo is now on 8 yellows for the season and facing a suspension if he gets another couple of yellows before the 33rd game of the season.

Taylor on the other hand decided that he was going to let pretty much anything go in the City-Arsenal game. That meant there was zero chance of any players getting carded, sent off or missing any games. 

The only two yellows in our game yesterday were the challenge on Mac and Gomez taking the lad out.

Both deffo yellows.

All the other yellows were a fucking joke. The club should appeal and get that useless/bent bastard fucking sacked.

[GreatEx]

The Gakpo one was there. Pure professional foul.

[Fromola]

I've been going since the 80s. I can't remember once where virtually the entire ground is chanting 'cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat ' after 15 minutes at Anfield.

Can you?

Frustration with biased refs has boiled over this season with the crowd. "Fuck off Tierney" and 'you Manc bastard' has routinely been sung at the Manc cabal. Coote is consistently as bad as any against us. I think he was on VAR for the Arsenal game failing to give the handball pen.

[Eeyore]

Frustration with biased refs has boiled over this season with the crowd. "Fuck off Tierney" and 'you Manc bastard' has routinely been sung at the Manc cabal. Coote is consistently as bad as any against us. I think he was on VAR for the Arsenal game failing to give the handball pen.

Not just the Anfield game. After failing to give the Odegaard penalty he was then rewarded by getting the VAR role in the reverse fixture at the Emirates. The second one is the game in which he failed to spot Martinelli shoving VVD into Ali.

So VVD gets booked for a completely innocuous incident yesterday but the same VAR missed far more contact when Martinelli shoved VVD.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Not just the Anfield game. After failing to give the Odegaard penalty he was then rewarded by getting the VAR role in the reverse fixture at the Emirates. The second one is the game in which he failed to spot Martinelli shoving VVD into Ali.

So VVD gets booked for a completely innocuous incident yesterday but the same VAR missed far more contact when Martinelli shoved VVD.

And that's the thing isn't it? Every week it's something else that the officials 'made a mistake with' or 'missed' or 'judged harshly' or ... insert pathetic shite after pathetic shite after pathetic shite.

But it's all just some sort of mad co-incidence that pretty much everything, every week is wearing us down or going against us. For balance, since it 'evens itself out' - what outrageous decisions have we had for us that make us think 'ah. well.. we got away with that major talking point - so that kind of evens it out'

The only thing people can come up with is the fucking dropped ball against Forest which caused public outrage. A fucking dropped fucking ball two minutes before a goal. Absolute madness the virtiol and anger from oppo fans and the media.


And all I asked for - AGAIN - before the game - AGAIN - was to watch a game of football yesterday that was officiated well and impartially and again PGMOL fucked it up.

[Fitzy.]

I went yesterday. First time in the new Annie Rd. Did catch the frustration with the ref…because he was frustrating and it’s the home fans’ role to influence the ref as much as possible. Like pretty much every game I’ve been to since I started going over 30 years ago.

The young guy next to me texted his friend - which I inadvertently caught sight of: ‘Agenda set by the PGMOL again’.

All it made me think was that the whole noise around football now is set to one of grievance and injustice. Rather than me checking myself to reconsider my view about deep collusion and corruption.

To amuse myself I read through GoT and ReCafe for their thoughts. Aside from some terrible shouts, both sets of fans have noisy contributors who are very earnest in their claims that Klopp dopes his players. They are utterly convinced and call out anybody who suggests that it is conspiracy nuthousery. Or maybe they’re correct by virtue of the fact that so many of them believe it? Intriguing.

[Andy82lfc]

I went yesterday. First time in the new Annie Rd. Did catch the frustration with the ref…because he was frustrating and it’s the home fans’ role to influence the ref as much as possible. Like pretty much every game I’ve been to since I started going over 30 years ago.

The young guy next to me texted his friend - which I inadvertently caught sight of: ‘Agenda set by the PGMOL again’.

All it made me think was that the whole noise around football now is set to one of grievance and injustice. Rather than me checking myself to reconsider my view about deep collusion and corruption.

To amuse myself I read through GoT and ReCafe for their thoughts. Aside from some terrible shouts, both sets of fans have noisy contributors who are very earnest in their claims that Klopp dopes his players. They are utterly convinced and call out anybody who suggests that it is conspiracy nuthousery. Or maybe they’re correct by virtue of the fact that so many of them believe it? Intriguing.

Although I get your wider point I don't think you can compare the two. One has no evidence what-so-ever, even based on data. The other has many instances of actions that go far beyond incompetent refereeing along with data that at times is quite eye-opening. It's then up in the air whether you want to label that from bias to corruption or refs bottling decisions. I personally believe it's a big mix of bias, arrogance, spitefulness and people who are not fit for the job. These all make sense as rivalry is so tribal.

What we can all agree on on either side of the debate I feel, is that PGMOL do operate in such an unprofessional way that they leave themselves open to these kinds of questions, true or not. Allowing refs from rival cities and even clearer conflicts of interests by allowing some to be indirectly on the pay roll of Man city, which sounds so absurd every time I type that out, just stinks of such an incredibly badly run organisation. If they don't want so many accusations, along with that of our own very carefully spoken and intelligent manager, they need to operate in a much more professional way, hopefully we can all agree on that at the very least.

[newterp]

Coote has a such a weak jawline - looks like he's about to start drooling at any time.