Author Topic: FSG (*)  (Read 832474 times)

Online DangerScouse

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Re: FSG
« Reply #3320 on: February 7, 2017, 07:56:08 pm »

They're better than Gillette and Hicks, why's everyone so irate?

Not the first time this has been posted on this thread, and won't be the last.

Deary me.

Offline Eeyore

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Re: FSG
« Reply #3321 on: February 7, 2017, 07:57:19 pm »
Çant even bring yourself to give them an ounce of credit can you Al?  ::)

Of course I do mate. Time and time again I have said they have done a good job on the business side.

On the Football side they have been poor for me.
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Online DangerScouse

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Re: FSG
« Reply #3322 on: February 7, 2017, 07:58:12 pm »
Çant even bring yourself to give them an ounce of credit can you Al?  ::)

He has a point though.

And it's a flawed approach in the premier league I believe.

Offline keyop

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Re: FSG
« Reply #3323 on: February 7, 2017, 08:04:56 pm »
Spurs have got lucky with transfers.

Spurs CBs and keeper cost a combined £25m and they are miles better than what we have for double the price.

Whilst they sign Vertonghen and Alderweireld for approx. £20m we sign Lovren. There's your difference. Not FSGs fault directly but scouting and player choice. We have much more transfer failures than most.

We spend £25m on Lallana and they get Eriksen for £10m. Not much difference between them except Eriksen can take great set pieces.

They have their failures too all when Bale left really but they are much better at choosing players overall. Probably something to do with not believing in the prem proven myth or something.

A lot of us can already see us missing out on Brandt and spending loads on Redmond as alternative.

You could just as easily write that post the other way around, listing coutinho, sturridge, matip, and clyne as examples of our good scouting, and list the players that Spurs bought for the double the price that weren't as good.

As for us having more transfer failures than most, is that really the case or are we naturally overcritical because we all care so much about our club? I bet the same criticisms are levelled by other fans at their own clubs, who have equally squandered tens of millions on players. In fact there are probably fans on other club forums writing mirror-image posts of ours on here, bemoaning their transfer hit rate and citing other clubs successes.

I do find it puzzling that you are comparing one of our best players and one who fits the Klopp system perfectly (Lallana), with a Spurs player that with the benefit of hindsight has turned out arguably as good but for less money. I could literally sit here all day with Google and do that for every team in the world, but it proves nothing as no-one who conducts transfer business has hindsight in their toolkit.
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Offline Redman0151

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Re: FSG
« Reply #3324 on: February 7, 2017, 08:05:57 pm »
The leaked emails show their arrogance and lack of understanding

They thought everybody in the PL was an idiot and they were smarter than everybody else, coming in to cheat the system and make some money. Now its becoming obvious they aren't as smart as they think they are and they don't have the interest in putting in the investment required to compete at the top
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Offline Chakan

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Re: FSG
« Reply #3325 on: February 7, 2017, 08:09:34 pm »
The leaked emails show their arrogance and lack of understanding

They thought everybody in the PL was an idiot and they were smarter than everybody else, coming in to cheat the system and make some money. Now its becoming obvious they aren't as smart as they think they are and they don't have the interest in putting in the investment required to compete at the top

Can you give a brief highlight of what the emails say?

Offline Ma Vie en Rouge

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Re: FSG
« Reply #3326 on: February 7, 2017, 08:10:32 pm »
klopp demands so much physically from his players that for me they have burnt out, along with his tactics failing to gain the same success as earlier on in the campaign. We need a bigger squad with capable replacements so he can rotate more without the massive drop off in quality, that is gonna take several transfer windows and a massive amount of luck.

 I doubt the owners want to spend what is required to fast track that or pay first team wages out for squad players. FSG will be buying in lower fee/wages gambles instead of bringing in more mane levels of quality to fill out the squad along with one relatively be big buy every summer.

 We need to build a squad when prices have never been higher, the game is not stacked in our favour at all.

Patience.

Sadly, if we continue down that route, we'll routinely lose our star players and be looking for the "next star". At the moment it's Coutinho. If we don't make the CL this season, or next at worse, he'll probably leave. We'll get loadsamoney, try and sign some replacements who may or may not succeed, and on we go.

At some point, we either get very lucky with speculative buys and get enough players in place at the right time to make the breakthrough, or we have to pay the money to buy several top class players at a time to get a core of the team that will take us forward. Otherwise, we're just hoping for a manager to perform miracles, or to get lucky with mid-range buys, and, almost all of the time, that isn't enough in this league, particularly when selling clubs know that English clubs are loaded and demand high prices even for merely decent players.

I'm patient as a supporter. I've waited most of my adult life to see us win the league again. But patience isn't always a virtue in terms of how the club goes forward. Sometimes you need to grasp the nettle and get it done. And that has rarely seemed characteristic of the club's thinking. We're hoping. We're building. Oh, there goes our best player. But hey, we signed another young star. Now he's our best player. Oh, he's going too.

FSG aren't the devil incarnate. But they are far too cautious. Or, they simply don't care that much in the end. Liverpool doesn't excite them, and certainly not enough to really push the club forward by taking some chances and spending some money without reference to market value (a fairly meaningless term, actually). I'd like to think this summer will be the one where that all changes, but I've been hoping that for a few years now...

Offline cowtownred

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Re: FSG
« Reply #3327 on: February 7, 2017, 08:11:04 pm »
Who on the board, with power, has any football qualifications to make an impartial judgement call?

Cmon, the football decisions are as poor a call as business call of a portacabin and it effects us just as badly.


Absolute fucking roaster of a post Nikki. Nailed it.

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Re: FSG
« Reply #3328 on: February 7, 2017, 08:12:54 pm »
Kenny is on the board.

Offline Redman0151

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Re: FSG
« Reply #3329 on: February 7, 2017, 08:14:57 pm »
Can you give a brief highlight of what the emails say?

This is all directly from John Henry:

“There is a basic precept/combination that I have learned from Charlie Munger and Warren Buffett that interests me in Red.

“That is the concept of acquiring a top global brand at a discount price and ensuring it is well managed. I am interested now in trying to ascertain if this is indeed a major opportunity that would indeed diversify and strengthen NESV.”


Then once they looked into it further

“If we could acquire this for the debt, I really feel like we would be stealing this franchise.

“In some ways they really are in the dark ages — especially competitively. The best and brightest are not presently working on English soccer. But the English Premier League is bigger than the NFL, NASCAR, MLB and the NBA internationally. Only Formula One can begin to compare in viewership.

“This could be a steal. Every buyer believes what potential Red Sox buyers believed — you have to build a new stadium. And they believe the stadium will cost more than £350m! That’s why there are no bidders. We would probably take the same approach we took to Fenway Park. But we’d be looking to limit investment in the facility to 8 figures.

“Then how much is this worth if we recruit the best and the brightest to run the soccer operation?”



Funny enough it's actually what Tony Evans has been saying they think for a long time. Thought they were a lot smarter than they were
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Offline cowtownred

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Re: FSG
« Reply #3330 on: February 7, 2017, 08:15:06 pm »
I've waited most of my adult life to see us win the league again.
FSG simply don't care that much in the end. Liverpool doesn't excite them, and certainly not enough to really push the club forward by taking some chances and spending some money without reference to market value (a fairly meaningless term, actually). I'd like to think this summer will be the one where that all changes, but I've been hoping that for a few years now...


This sums it up. We are not going to improve on our routine 7th place finishes unless these lot start to care.

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Re: FSG
« Reply #3331 on: February 7, 2017, 08:15:33 pm »
Kenny is on the board.

Kenny fuckin who, exactly!? ... Kenny Lynch!

Stop making stuff up to prove a point

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Re: FSG
« Reply #3332 on: February 7, 2017, 08:17:13 pm »

Offline Chakan

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Re: FSG
« Reply #3333 on: February 7, 2017, 08:18:07 pm »
This is all directly from John Henry:

“There is a basic precept/combination that I have learned from Charlie Munger and Warren Buffett that interests me in Red.

“That is the concept of acquiring a top global brand at a discount price and ensuring it is well managed. I am interested now in trying to ascertain if this is indeed a major opportunity that would indeed diversify and strengthen NESV.”


Then once they looked into it further

“If we could acquire this for the debt, I really feel like we would be stealing this franchise.

“In some ways they really are in the dark ages — especially competitively. The best and brightest are not presently working on English soccer. But the English Premier League is bigger than the NFL, NASCAR, MLB and the NBA internationally. Only Formula One can begin to compare in viewership.

“This could be a steal. Every buyer believes what potential Red Sox buyers believed — you have to build a new stadium. And they believe the stadium will cost more than £350m! That’s why there are no bidders. We would probably take the same approach we took to Fenway Park. But we’d be looking to limit investment in the facility to 8 figures.

“Then how much is this worth if we recruit the best and the brightest to run the soccer operation?”



Funny enough it's actually what Tony Evans has been saying they think for a long time. Thought they were a lot smarter than they were


Sorry what are the new bits of information that's come out of that?

They bought us on the cheap, we knew this.
They bought us to run it like a business, no shock there.
Limited to 8 figured of investment in the facility (stadium) which they seem to have stuck to and we have a new main stand.
We were competitively in the dark ages when it came to commercial and revenue investment, hell everyone was saying that before H&G!

Business men buy football club to run as business, shock and horror as emails reveal business men buy football club to run as a business.
« Last Edit: February 7, 2017, 08:22:25 pm by Chakan »

Offline cowtownred

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Re: FSG
« Reply #3334 on: February 7, 2017, 08:18:25 pm »
Of course I do mate. Time and time again I have said they have done a good job on the business side.

On the Football side they have been poor for me.

Totally agree Al, except on the football side they have considerably less than poor. One might even say miserable tight arsed fucks with no credibility, or desire to make us great again, not even if it involves spending our own earnings to do it.

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Re: FSG
« Reply #3335 on: February 7, 2017, 08:18:42 pm »

Offline cowtownred

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Re: FSG
« Reply #3336 on: February 7, 2017, 08:20:15 pm »
Kenny is on the board.

Big man is Kenny.  If I'd had the Henry stare at Wembley, and I were Kenny, I'd be in Walton for murder by stabbing.

Offline JackWard33

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Re: FSG
« Reply #3337 on: February 7, 2017, 08:21:37 pm »
This is all directly from John Henry:

“There is a basic precept/combination that I have learned from Charlie Munger and Warren Buffett that interests me in Red.

“That is the concept of acquiring a top global brand at a discount price and ensuring it is well managed. I am interested now in trying to ascertain if this is indeed a major opportunity that would indeed diversify and strengthen NESV.”


Then once they looked into it further

“If we could acquire this for the debt, I really feel like we would be stealing this franchise.

“In some ways they really are in the dark ages — especially competitively. The best and brightest are not presently working on English soccer. But the English Premier League is bigger than the NFL, NASCAR, MLB and the NBA internationally. Only Formula One can begin to compare in viewership.

“This could be a steal. Every buyer believes what potential Red Sox buyers believed — you have to build a new stadium. And they believe the stadium will cost more than £350m! That’s why there are no bidders. We would probably take the same approach we took to Fenway Park. But we’d be looking to limit investment in the facility to 8 figures.

“Then how much is this worth if we recruit the best and the brightest to run the soccer operation?”



Funny enough it's actually what Tony Evans has been saying they think for a long time. Thought they were a lot smarter than they were


Honestly I don't see the problem with any of this - and I don't count myself as an FSG fan.
These are emails about buying the club. They're private emails between members of a company discussing the pros of buying a business.... they're lucky the emails aren't far worse. If Abramovich's conversations before buying Chelsea were public they'd make this look like a conversation from the Archers I'm sure.
We were horribly undervalued when they bought us and they've made 6-800 million on their investment... good for them.

It's also not necessarily mutually exclusive that you can't make money and also want to compete and win things. In fact the "franchise" would be worth even more if we were in the CL regularly and winning more and becoming more of a magnet for fans worldwide

The question is what are they going to do with that wealth? Is it going to result in investment in the team to get us back to the top? Is there a plan to compete?

« Last Edit: February 7, 2017, 08:24:57 pm by JackWard33 »

Offline thelinnen

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Re: FSG
« Reply #3338 on: February 7, 2017, 08:23:55 pm »
Sorry what are the new bits of information that's come out of that?

They bought us on the cheap, we knew this.
They bought us to run it like a business, no shock there.
Limited to 8 figured of investment in the facility (stadium) which they seem to have stuck to and we have a new main stand.
We were competitively in the dark ages when it came to commercial and revenue investment, hell everyone was saying that before H&G!

Business men buy football club to run as business, shock and horror as emails reveal business men buy football club to run as a business.
Nothing really that controversial bit from the part about not building a new stadium. They did string us along for a while on that.
Then in the midddle out pops a smiling glen johnson pulling up his jersey to reveal a t-shirt of suarez with a text saying. "OUR SUAREZ IS A FRIEND TO ALL COLOURS!"

Offline JamesG L4

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Re: FSG
« Reply #3339 on: February 7, 2017, 08:25:20 pm »
Honestly I don't see the problem with any of this - and I don't count myself as an FSG fan.
These are emails about buying the club. They're private emails between members of a company discussing the pros of buying a business.... they're lucky the emails aren't far worse. If Abramovich's conversations before buying Chelsea were public they'd make this look like a conversation from the Archers I'm sure.
We were horribly undervalued when they bought us and they've made 6-800 million on their investment... good for them.

It's also not necessarily mutually exclusive that you can't make money and also want to compete and win things. In fact the "franchise" would be worth even more if we were in the CL regularly and winning more and becoming more of a magnet for fans / worldwide

The question is what are they going to do with that wealth? Is it going to result in investment in the team to get us back to the top? Is there a plan to compete?



They have realised they can make enough money without being in the CL and by finishing 8th, the variables of spending big do not appeal.
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Offline cowtownred

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Re: FSG
« Reply #3340 on: February 7, 2017, 08:27:25 pm »
Sorry what are the new bits of information that's come out of that?

They bought us on the cheap, we knew this.
They bought us to run it like a business, no shock there.
Limited to 8 figured of investment in the facility (stadium) which they seem to have stuck to and we have a new main stand.
We were competitively in the dark ages when it came to commercial and revenue investment, hell everyone was saying that before H&G!

Business men buy football club to run as business, shock and horror as emails reveal business men buy football club to run as a business.

Allowing the football club to spend the money it earns, on the pitch, with football savvy people actually doing the football business would be a fucking massively good start would you say?

Offline The North Bank

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Re: FSG
« Reply #3341 on: February 7, 2017, 08:27:29 pm »
The only bad thing about that email is that bloody word "franchise" ...
And comparing football to NASCAR...

Offline Redman0151

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Re: FSG
« Reply #3342 on: February 7, 2017, 08:27:41 pm »
Honestly I don't see the problem with any of this - and I don't count myself as an FSG fan.
These are emails about buying the club. They're private emails between members of a company discussing the pros of buying a business.... they're lucky the emails aren't far worse. If Abramovich's conversations before buying Chelsea were public they'd make this look like a conversation from the Archers I'm sure.
We were horribly undervalued when they bought us and they've made 6-800 million on their investment... good for them.

It's also not necessarily mutually exclusive that you can't make money and also want to compete and win things. In fact the "franchise" would be worth even more if we were in the CL regularly and winning more and becoming more of a magnet for fans worldwide

The question is what are they going to do with that wealth? Is it going to result in investment in the team to get us back to the top? Is there a plan to compete?



I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that in itself, i'm just saying they obviously came in thinking everybody was dumb in the PL and they had a special method to cheat the system and reach the top.

Now that's obviously not the case, I don't think they have the desire to get us there
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Offline Chakan

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Re: FSG
« Reply #3343 on: February 7, 2017, 08:29:21 pm »
Allowing the football club to spend the money it earns, on the pitch, with football savvy people actually doing the football business would be a fucking massively good start would you say?

Are they not allowing the club to spend what it earns? Are they taking profits out the club?

A few more football savvy people wouldn't go amiss.

The only bad thing about that email is that bloody word "franchise" ...
And comparing football to NASCAR...

What else are they going to compare it to? Cricket, rugby?

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Re: FSG
« Reply #3344 on: February 7, 2017, 08:32:12 pm »
Are they not allowing the club to spend what it earns? Are they taking profits out the club?

A few more football savvy people wouldn't go amiss.

What else are they going to compare it to? Cricket, rugby?

The yanks do have some shit sports so i guess its a struggle.

Offline The North Bank

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Re: FSG
« Reply #3345 on: February 7, 2017, 08:32:58 pm »
To be fair they mention getting a bright operator to run the football side and they got Klopp who is as bright as it gets. Unless I'm interpreting it wrong.

Offline JackWard33

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Re: FSG
« Reply #3346 on: February 7, 2017, 08:34:12 pm »
I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that in itself, i'm just saying they obviously came in thinking everybody was dumb in the PL and they had a special method to cheat the system and reach the top.

Now that's obviously not the case, I don't think they have the desire to get us there

I generally agree with this.

Interestingly I think there was an opportunity when they bought to compete without spending as much as some - but they didn't act decisively or cleverly enough to take advantage of it.
(It's interesting they're constantly accused of running the club 'by laptop' when I've never been able to see much evidence of the kind of clever use of analytics in our transfer business)

The problem is in the time they've owned the club the football market has changed. 7 years ago you could buy a 19 year old from France or Germany for a few million and develop that under valued asset. Now thanks to analytics and the global football boom all the big clubs know about talent at a much more sophisticated level.
The growth in prices for young players has been huge over the last few years because of this.

You probably still could have an advantage in the market by really adopting advanced analytics and hiring people in the club accordingly but that isn't happening at Liverpool.
Further to that if you were going to have the strategy of buying young and developing you couldn't then also sell your best players often and certainly not those you've brought through yourselves as that's not a strategy to compete.

I think they did start off with good intentions to win trophies but I can't see any evidence of that at the moment - or any kind of strategy for us to get back to the top short of - 'hire Klopp and hope he turns water into wine'

Offline Chakan

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Re: FSG
« Reply #3347 on: February 7, 2017, 08:35:28 pm »
The yanks do have some shit sports so i guess its a struggle.

National Football League    American football    USA     11,880    
Major League Baseball    Baseball    USA/Canada     9,602    
National Basketball Association    Basketball    USA/Canada     4,750    
Premier League    Association football    England/Wales     4,070    
National Hockey League    Ice hockey    USA/Canada     3,300    

Crappy sports yeah, but their the highest earners in the world.

Although NASCAR is way down on the list.
« Last Edit: February 7, 2017, 08:37:05 pm by Chakan »

Offline liverpool185

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Re: FSG
« Reply #3348 on: February 7, 2017, 08:35:45 pm »
Firstly they should never of got a young manager with zero experience in the first place.

Secondly does Rafa going to Newcastle mean that Newcastle are now full of ambition and intention.

For me they wanted Klopp not because he is World Class but because he initially got Dortmund to massively overachieve on a shoestring budget. Is recruiting Klopp a show of intention or merely another attempt at hitting the jackpot without actually risking anything.

If Klopp was a high maintenance Super Coach who flitted from Club to Club winning trophies but demanding huge investment do you think FSG would of gone for him.

I think it's pretty damn obvious what Newcastle were thinking when they hired Benitez, how can you even question that?

If you genuinely think the only reason FSG hired Klopp was because of your reasons then im out of here, the levels of stupidity this thread is reaching is ridiculous. FSG have made plenty of mistakes but to try and twist, discredit and make things up to suit your agenda against them, it's freaking nuts. I don't think they can do anything without you finding something negative to say. What would you of been saying if Klopp managed to win one or both of those cup finals last season? I would say you would be lauding FSG for appointing Klopp but i bet you would still find something bad to say...

Utter monstrosity of a reply.
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Re: FSG
« Reply #3349 on: February 7, 2017, 08:41:05 pm »
Cock wombles
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Offline CraigDS

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Re: FSG
« Reply #3350 on: February 7, 2017, 08:44:14 pm »
with power

He has as much power as any other director sat on the board, that's how a board works.

Offline Jake

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Re: FSG
« Reply #3351 on: February 7, 2017, 08:49:25 pm »
So, without me reading 84 pages, has anyone made any concessions or even, dare I say it, switched allegiances?
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Re: FSG
« Reply #3352 on: February 7, 2017, 08:51:04 pm »
So, without me reading 84 pages, has anyone made any concessions or even, dare I say it, switched allegiances?

I'm with the cock wombles. They seem the only ones with any sense. Homsk.
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Offline CraigDS

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Re: FSG
« Reply #3353 on: February 7, 2017, 08:52:44 pm »
I'm with the cock wombles. They seem the only ones with any sense. Homsk.

Must admit I am swaying towards them!

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Re: FSG
« Reply #3354 on: February 7, 2017, 08:55:27 pm »
Sadly, if we continue down that route, we'll routinely lose our star players and be looking for the "next star". At the moment it's Coutinho. If we don't make the CL this season, or next at worse, he'll probably leave. We'll get loadsamoney, try and sign some replacements who may or may not succeed, and on we go.

At some point, we either get very lucky with speculative buys and get enough players in place at the right time to make the breakthrough, or we have to pay the money to buy several top class players at a time to get a core of the team that will take us forward. Otherwise, we're just hoping for a manager to perform miracles, or to get lucky with mid-range buys, and, almost all of the time, that isn't enough in this league, particularly when selling clubs know that English clubs are loaded and demand high prices even for merely decent players.

I'm patient as a supporter. I've waited most of my adult life to see us win the league again. But patience isn't always a virtue in terms of how the club goes forward. Sometimes you need to grasp the nettle and get it done. And that has rarely seemed characteristic of the club's thinking. We're hoping. We're building. Oh, there goes our best player. But hey, we signed another young star. Now he's our best player. Oh, he's going too.

FSG aren't the devil incarnate. But they are far too cautious. Or, they simply don't care that much in the end. Liverpool doesn't excite them, and certainly not enough to really push the club forward by taking some chances and spending some money without reference to market value (a fairly meaningless term, actually). I'd like to think this summer will be the one where that all changes, but I've been hoping that for a few years now...

Despite him saying he has faith in the manager and in the club's future plans, which by the way no one knows nothing about.
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Re: FSG
« Reply #3355 on: February 7, 2017, 08:55:34 pm »
He has as much power as any other director sat on the board, that's how a board works.

That's hilarious mate even for you.

So we have a board of 7 with 5 members of FSG on there now. So just convince two members of FSG to stab the other three in the back and your home and dry.
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Re: FSG
« Reply #3356 on: February 7, 2017, 08:55:36 pm »
He has as much power as any other director sat on the board, that's how a board works.

non-executive board director.  We've been here before Craig.

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Re: FSG
« Reply #3357 on: February 7, 2017, 08:57:32 pm »
That's hilarious mate even for you.

So we have a board of 7 with 5 members of FSG on there now. So just convince two members of FSG to stab the other three in the back and your home and dry.

To be fair, anything "major" that would require a special resolution, the two could just block.

But yeah, FSG have the large bulk of the power. But they do own the club so
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Re: FSG
« Reply #3358 on: February 7, 2017, 08:58:15 pm »
He has as much power as any other director sat on the board, that's how a board works.

And at this point any semblance of credibility you have evaporates. Utterly evaporates.
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Re: FSG
« Reply #3359 on: February 7, 2017, 08:59:04 pm »
It's a cheap shot and a misconception of what we have been saying since day one.

They've improved the business side, i'm not arsed about the leaked emails saying it's a steal, we all knew it was an epic swindle, there's massive market to be tapped into cos we are a massively supported club, despite winning next to fuck all for quater of a century, it's a market rick parry and david moores should have tapped into but didn't know how.   FSG have done what i expected from moores and parry, when united opened their mega store in the late 1980s moores and parry, the thick twats, thought a portacabin selling scarfs and badges was sufficient, when we won the champions league the dozy bastards had the club shop closed, while street vendors were flogging 1quid t-shirts for 20quid.

fsg are milking the cow, i don't mind all the non match day tat, events, that suck the tourist day tripper money, good luck to them, hope people have a nice day out, a nice tour, enjoy a meal, and the club get a nice chunk of money from it. I do care about match day fans getting mugged.  I care about all those who want to pay and watch us getting the opportunity over 'sweet spot' to maximise profits.

On the business side, much improvement, no doubt, we are earning more than ever before, we want to spend what we earn, so why are we spending less net than when moores was running the portacabin show? Why do we have to wait to the summer to have a sit down discussion and see who's to blame for it going wrong, why dont they employ someone with football qualifications to run the show, if they arent gonna turn up, moores for all his faults was at least on the sodding bus with the manager at every game and was aware the instant it happened that a player has a knock that might fuck up the script.

Us know nothings, unqualified in the game, suspected the squad wasn't capable of going the entire season.
A coach, employed by munich, city, etc quibbled whether it was sustainable over the course of the season.
Football writers didn't expect us to challenge for the title for some reason either.
Despite our lack of intimate knowledge of the health of players, experience in the game, coaching methods, fitness, stamina there were a fair few doubting thomases.

The pertinent question is, who on the board had a scooby of that negative scenario of us not going the distance transpiring? who on the board with power and influence to change things thought there is a possibility that squad depth, despite lack of european footy, given the gegenpressing approach might actually tire players, and coupled with injuries and african cup, that our depth might be tested to the max in the merry month of december/january? 

Henry? linda? Werner? Gordon?  Who on the board, with power, has any football qualifications to make an impartial judgement call?

Cmon, the football decisions are as poor a call as business call of a portacabin and it effects us just as badly.

Have to say - this is the best post on the subject that I have read so far. Absolute stellar post.

I would like the likes of Craig and the naysayers to go through your post point by point, with a retaliation. Instead I think we'll just see more hot air about how Al can't give the owners any credit.

None of us are saying FSG are the worst owners in history, we appreciate they have increased the business side, the main stand. In turn for them doing so, they'll get a nice big pay day when they sell. The thing is, the things they have done, is the minimum that you would expect.

Where's the ambition?