Topic: The Anfield Wrap

[dai_bonehead]

Reasons:
- Fan voice and fan media exist to give a platform to supporters - this was a moment to stand and deliver on that mission
- Football clubs aren't solely the plaything of billionaires with semi-interested stakeholders
- Although more egregious than FSG, United's owners need their wings clipping - the rest of football catches a clod from this kind of stuff
- Manchester and Liverpool are footballing hotbeds with giant clubs that provide the local community with tremendous pride - this fosters a kinship (and rivalry) between the two places
- Slagging off the protests on Sunday gives the broader issues a free pass - bad faith arguments steeped in dislike of a rival is Twitter-level grimness

I thought these reasons were implicit in what was said on TAW over the weekend - but maybe not.

They were.

[Don Vito Corleone]

fair enough its not one e homogenous voice however there wasnt much differing opinion on that particular podcast

dont put words in my mouth or assume you know what I feel h either  Im not arsed about by opinion being echoed Im not that insecure to need the reassurance

Isn't that pretty much what you did?

See, assumptions, not great are they?

[Kenny's Jacket]

Isn't that pretty much what you did?

See, assumptions, not great are they?

what did I do or assume?

[Big Bamber]

Was there a TAW free main show on Monday?

Andy implied there was but I can’t find it. Maybe it’s not on the TAW Player feed, just the old ‘free stuff’ feed.

[Don Vito Corleone]

Andy implied there was but I can’t find it. Maybe it’s not on the TAW Player feed, just the old ‘free stuff’ feed.

Sorry, to be clear, we released the post-match show as free, that’s may fault for giving you incorrect info, we didn’t do a ‘TAW’ show, mainly because the dust was settling and a ridiculous amount of work was going in trying to understand the fallout and try and put shows together with different guests and insight.

Also, we released the FSA show as free, I think

[Big Bamber]

Sorry, to be clear, we released the post-match show as free, that’s may fault for giving you incorrect info, we didn’t do a ‘TAW’ show, mainly because the dust was settling and a ridiculous amount of work was going in trying to understand the fallout and try and put shows together with different guests and insight.

No worries, thanks for clarifying.

[LallanaInPyjamas]

Would like to see the working on this.

There's a difference between having solidarity with fans and their fight (for what it's worth, I can't be arsed with "standing" with them) and having a soft spot and talking them up. I remember Neil saying fairly recently he really doesn't rate this United side

There's a clear difference between club and team. Whether he rates their team or not doesn't really impact how he views the club.

I'm not saying Neil likes United or anything ridiculous like that. I just don't think he hates them in the same way most Liverpool fans do, and he seems to have a soft spot for their fans, often over-estimating our common ground (despite the fact that there is undoubtedly a little amount there). That's been pretty clear from numerous opinions of his down the years and he'd probably admit it himself.

He's free to feel however he wants but I do wonder if it's impacted his views on their protests a little bit. Like yourself, I absolutely cannot be arsed getting involved with them, and I myself certainly don't hate them as vociferously as I did in my younger years. But I'm not getting involved with anything which might help improve them on the pitch. They can fight their own battle. We fought ours, and may have to do again in the future.

[Bangin Them In]

I have noticed down the years that Neil Atkinson seems to have a strange soft spot for Manchester United. Bangs on about how much he hates Leeds but can't wait to talk United up.

Like it or not (most of us don't) they were the benchmark when we were younger under Fergie for years, just think he wants us to be a similar line of success, which I think is why he references them

[LallanaInPyjamas]

Like it or not (most of us don't) they were the benchmark when we were younger under Fergie for years, just think he wants us to be a similar line of success, which I think is why he references them

Like it or not, they're still a fair bit ahead of us in terms of commercialisation, so if they're pissing it away through mismanagement, that's fine with me. It's hard enough to win things with oil-enhanced clubs around now without United running like a smooth machine.

[Bangin Them In]

Like it or not, they're still a fair bit ahead of us in terms of commercialisation, so if they're pissing it away through mismanagement, that's fine with me. It's hard enough to win things with oil-enhanced clubs around now without United running like a smooth machine.

No, that's not my point at all, the team under Ferguson should be something we should emulate as domination, nothing to do with today

[Hij]

There's a clear difference between club and team. Whether he rates their team or not doesn't really impact how he views the club.

I'm not saying Neil likes United or anything ridiculous like that. I just don't think he hates them in the same way most Liverpool fans do, and he seems to have a soft spot for their fans, often over-estimating our common ground (despite the fact that there is undoubtedly a little amount there). That's been pretty clear from numerous opinions of his down the years and he'd probably admit it himself.

He's free to feel however he wants but I do wonder if it's impacted his views on their protests a little bit. Like yourself, I absolutely cannot be arsed getting involved with them, and I myself certainly don't hate them as vociferously as I did in my younger years. But I'm not getting involved with anything which might help improve them on the pitch. They can fight their own battle. We fought ours, and may have to do again in the future.

Think he's just mates with a few Mancs really and perhaps it's through dialogue with them that he sees their point of view on some issues.

Like you I respect the Mancs protesting their owners, but the large majority of them weren't bothered when we nearly went bankrupt so I struggle to go above and beyond the call of duty for them. Is that selfish? Probably, but I can't help how I feel
 

[LallanaInPyjamas]

Think he's just mates with a few Mancs really.

I get that. Two of my best mates are United fans and it does soften your views on them a little. Emphasis on little. 

[Charlie Adams fried egg]

I'm not speaking for Neil because I can't. Personally I can't stand Utd, but most of that comes from the way certain sections of their fans behave and the lets say generous press they get.

I admired them for the way they expanded when we didn't, I admired through gritted teeth the relentless success under Ferguson, although I was less impressed by the Ferguson led hegemony they enjoyed with the reffing community which no doubt contributed something to their success.

Maybe Neil deals with the level headed lads that I know exist and that I know reject the sick chants that the rank and file like to come out with. I know they exist because 3 mates that I've known for around 25-30 years are decent Utd fans. We'll take the piss, but we'll offer congratulations - often through gritted teeth again, but we know that. There's a mutual respect and an acknowledgement of the achievements and profile of the clubs.

It's just a pity there isn't more of it because the level headed from both clubs need to come together, a) to make sure the knobheads don't become the voice, but b) to protect the interests of traditional clubs against the sportswashers.

[Kenny's Jacket]

Like it or not, they're still a fair bit ahead of us in terms of commercialisation, so if they're pissing it away through mismanagement, that's fine with me. It's hard enough to win things with oil-enhanced clubs around now without United running like a smooth machine.

exctlty

[LallanaInPyjamas]

It's just a pity there isn't more of it because the level headed from both clubs need to come together, a) to make sure the knobheads don't become the voice, but b) to protect the interests of traditional clubs against the sportswashers.

I really don't think that's what their protests were about, though. Obviously every individual has different demands and desires, but their fundamental aim is to remove the Glazers. There were a significant minority holding pro-Saudi Arabia etc banners.

Helping them protest about their owners isn't realistically going to change football for the better - for us or anyone. It'll just make them stronger again. And, personally, I believe that's a major reason as to why why the press did not condone the protests in the same way they almost certainly would have done with another club, particularly us and perhaps two or three others associated with 'hooliganism' (ugh) down the years. They want the establishment club to be on top again.

[Crosby Nick]

I get that. Two of my best mates are United fans and it does soften your views on them a little. Emphasis on little. 

Two of my best mates at school were Mancs and it certainly didn’t soften my views towards them. They crow like no other group of fans. No humility whatsoever. I’ve enjoyed seeing them go years without winning anything significant.

When the boot’s in t other foot you don’t get any recognition from them on how well we’ve done.

Maybe I just need better mates.

[LallanaInPyjamas]

Nope, I think a lot of them are like that in all honesty.

In short: hate United, love Glazers. And don't hate Leeds.

[Charlie Adams fried egg]

I really don't think that's what their protests were about, though. Obviously every individual has different demands and desires, but their fundamental aim is to remove the Glazers. There were a significant minority holding pro-Saudi Arabia etc banners.

Helping them protest about their owners isn't realistically going to change football for the better - for us or anyone. It'll just make them stronger again. And, personally, I believe that's a major reason as to why why the press did not condone the protests in the same way they almost certainly would have done with another club, particularly us and perhaps two or three others associated with 'hooliganism' (ugh) down the years. They want the establishment club to be on top again.

I know all that.
I was just giving some background as to why Neil may think the way he does.
But what I was also saying is that the decent fans need to act, so the knobheads - i.e. last week, don't become the voice.

[redgriffin73]

Two of my best mates at school were Mancs and it certainly didn’t soften my views towards them. They crow like no other group of fans. No humility whatsoever. I’ve enjoyed seeing them go years without winning anything significant.

When the boot’s in t other foot you don’t get any recognition from them on how well we’ve done.

Maybe I just need better mates.

Most I got when I got back from Madrid from a Manc I know was "did you have a good trip?"

[number 168]

Two of my best mates at school were Mancs and it certainly didn’t soften my views towards them. They crow like no other group of fans. No humility whatsoever. I’ve enjoyed seeing them go years without winning anything significant.

When the boot’s in t other foot you don’t get any recognition from them on how well we’ve done.

Maybe I just need better mates.

I was at university in Manchester in the 1970's and stayed on a year to work in the city. I got to know quite a few United and City fans and some became mates, but I hated the United fans' sense of entitlement and feelings of superiority even though they were absolute shite at the time. As for the City fans, well they knew their place. Obviously it was a long time ago and City are the dominant English team but  I reckon the United fans still feel the same.

[Big Bamber]

/SNIP

I'm not saying Neil likes United or anything ridiculous like that. I just don't think he hates them in the same way most Liverpool fans do, and he seems to have a soft spot for their fans, often over-estimating our common ground (despite the fact that there is undoubtedly a little amount there). That's been pretty clear from numerous opinions of his down the years and he'd probably admit it himself.

/SNIP

Also to be fair to the TAW team, its only a relatively short period of time since the thing blew up.

It is bound to take a few days to get necessary people on, including those with views different to their own.
As we know from other threads there is no shortage of Liverpool supporters who do not support what the Man Utd fans are at or how they did it, and not for tribal reasons, feel they have no dog in the Glazers/Manc fight,  who think Liverpool were hard done by or lay down in the refixture/points deduction issues, are worried about assumptions of who is best to represent them at Board level etc. Buts its only Friday like! It must be tougher to get guests than find ranting posters on threads. (And I haven’t heard The Weekender yet, so maybe they have the variety of views covered).
 

[Fitzy.]

The idea that Neil has a soft spot for United is absurd. He'll dislike them as much as the next red. However two things are key:

1. It's not about standing with United fans per se, it's about standing with football fans who have dedicated their lives to a club that they see being exploited with the heart of the club going down the gutter. That's just based on solidarity rather than club colours. It's also about self-preservation - if the Glazers had their way, Liverpool would be next for such owners.

2. Neil hosts an outward-facing podcast that engages with rival fans - Mancs, blues, Chelsea etc. The idea that he'll get these lads and lasses on and rip into them is frankly daft. That doesn't mean he 'likes' United, it just means he's not an ill-adjusted social misfit.

[Levitz]

I have noticed down the years that Neil Atkinson seems to have a strange soft spot for Manchester United. Bangs on about how much he hates Leeds but can't wait to talk United up.

I don't get this from Atko. I do get that he has a shared understanding of being a football supporter from a similar big North West conurbation and has mates who have that shared experience who are Utd supporters, 'sympatico' if you will. That's not the same as liking or having a soft spot for Utd, which I definitely don't agree he has. As Fitzy says that is absurd.

[LallanaInPyjamas]

The idea that Neil has a soft spot for United is absurd. He'll dislike them as much as the next red. However two things are key:

1. It's not about standing with United fans per se, it's about standing with football fans who have dedicated their lives to a club that they see being exploited with the heart of the club going down the gutter. That's just based on solidarity rather than club colours. It's also about self-preservation - if the Glazers had their way, Liverpool would be next for such owners.

2. Neil hosts an outward-facing podcast that engages with rival fans - Mancs, blues, Chelsea etc. The idea that he'll get these lads and lasses on and rip into them is frankly daft. That doesn't mean he 'likes' United, it just means he's not an ill-adjusted social misfit.

No offence mate, but I wouldn't have expected you to post anything different. 

You don't need to lick United's arse not to be an "ill-adjusted social misfit". Soft spot may not be the correct term, but there's a consistently (luke?)warm tone there which I have rarely heard from a Liverpool fan.

[Big Bamber]

The idea that Neil has a soft spot for United is absurd. He'll dislike them as much as the next red. However two things are key:

1. It's not about standing with United fans per se, it's about standing with football fans who have dedicated their lives to a club that they see being exploited with the heart of the club going down the gutter. That's just based on solidarity rather than club colours. It's also about self-preservation - if the Glazers had their way, Liverpool would be next for such owners.

2. Neil hosts an outward-facing podcast that engages with rival fans - Mancs, blues, Chelsea etc. The idea that he'll get these lads and lasses on and rip into them is frankly daft. That doesn't mean he 'likes' United, it just means he's not an ill-adjusted social misfit.

This very true. Though that does not prevent TAW getting one of the seeminlgy thousands of Liverpool fans on to be more critical or suspicious. That would broaden the view in an informative way without TAW burning any bridges.

[Fitzy.]

No offence mate, but I wouldn't have expected you to post anything different. 

Fair enough

[Bergersrightwingviews]

Like it or not, they're still a fair bit ahead of us in terms of commercialisation, so if they're pissing it away through mismanagement, that's fine with me. It's hard enough to win things with oil-enhanced clubs around now without United running like a smooth machine.

Exactly.

We can of course find common ground with the mancs n all sorts of issues, but I couldn’t care less about the Glazers. Nothing they are doing endangers the existence of Man Utd (which I would have a big problem with). The fact that they don’t spend more than City should not concern Liverpool fans.

[decosabute]

No offence mate, but I wouldn't have expected you to post anything different. 

You don't need to lick United's arse not to be an "ill-adjusted social misfit". Soft spot may not be the correct term, but there's a consistently (luke?)warm tone there which I have rarely heard from a Liverpool fan.

I can see where you're coming from with this. Have long felt that Neil is very charitable to United, especially when Mourinho was the manager.

But at the same time, it is a tricky balancing act in terms of critisicing other teams/managers when you're then hosting the fans of these teams on a lot of the shows, so I can understand it.

In the same way, I find it frustrating to hear Man City get talked about as though they're legit and have earned their place on TAW shows (it's bad enough that the mainstream media do this constantly, without a Liverpool fan podcast adding to it), but again, it's a tough to find the right balance when you want to engage with other fanbases.

[Don Vito Corleone]

I can see where you're coming from with this. Have long felt that Neil is very charitable to United, especially when Mourinho was the manager.

But at the same time, it is a tricky balancing act in terms of critisicing other teams/managers when you're then hosting the fans of these teams on a lot of the shows, so I can understand it.

In the same way, I find it frustrating to hear Man City get talked about as though they're legit and have earned their place on TAW shows (it's bad enough that the mainstream media do this constantly, without a Liverpool fan podcast adding to it), but again, it's a tough to find the right balance when you want to engage with other fanbases.

I’m interviewing Stu Brennan next week

[red_Mark1980]

I’m interviewing Stu Brennan next week

I'd buy another subscription for that

[Crosby Nick]

I’m interviewing Stu Brennan next week

[Hij]

I’m interviewing Stu Brennan next week

[Bjornar]

There were several of their key contributors all in agreement about supporting the protest on their initial reaction show, it wasn't just Neil Atkinson. So surely not that relevant whether he in particular has a tendency to be too soft on United or not.

[Big Bamber]

There were several of their key contributors all in agreement about supporting the protest on their initial reaction show, it wasn't just Neil Atkinson. So surely not that relevant whether he in particular has a tendency to be too soft on United or not.

Was there any dissent?

[tmsneil]

Was there any dissent?

Have you listened to the show?

[tmsneil]

Quickly, I never want Manchester United to win a goldfish at a fair. There are two clubs in this country who know what it is to be the biggest club in the country and they are based within 40 miles of each other. If you don't think that is interesting or worth exploring then I can't help you. If you want frothing at the mouth hatred of Mancunians when interviewing them whether United or City then I can't help you on that either.

[Crosby Nick]

Fair do’s Neil. Can I ask why the hatred for Leeds? Did you go to uni there? Is it tongue in cheek? Or just the whole Dirty Leeds thing from the olden days?

And while we’re doing an impromptu AFQ is the TMS in your name a Test Match Special reference?

No further questions...

[tmsneil]

Fair do’s Neil. Can I ask why the hatred for Leeds? Did you go to uni there? Is it tongue in cheek? Or just the whole Dirty Leeds thing from the olden days?

And while we’re doing an impromptu AFQ is the TMS in your name a Test Match Special reference?

No further questions...

1. Because I always hated it there at around 2000 both socially and at the game. Had an astonishing record of ending up in fights both socially and at the game. I suspect I am at least partially responsible. Oh, and they've got a Harvey Nicks.

2. Nope but I wish.

[Millie]

1. Because I always hated it there at around 2000 both socially and at the game. Had an astonishing record of ending up in fights both socially and at the game. I suspect I am at least partially responsible. Oh, and they've got a Harvey Nicks.

2. Nope but I wish.

Can't believe you haven't asked Nick about his username 

I reckon his answer would be "I wish" as well.

[Crosby Nick]

Can't believe you haven't asked Nick about his username 

I reckon his answer would be "I wish" as well.

Steady.