Topic: Jeremy Corbyn Poll

[Dr. Beaker]

think he's thinking you mean you prefer the country where it is today I took you to mean you prefer Labour being where it is

Ah maybe I should have been clearer. Cheers Wab.

[Mark Walters]

Try Ukraine. If Corbyn had been Labour leader when Russia invaded in February, politics left of the Tories would be dead for decades.

I mean... https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/russia-ukraine-war-jeremy-corbyn-right-putin-oligarchs (Corbyn's quotes about Putin and Russia are all linked in that article.)

[Sudden Death Draft Loser]

Anyone who actually tried to change things in this country was going to get with both barrels and he got it from all sides, all the time.

I liked him, still do. If some hapless managerial dullard like Starmer is the best you can ever hope for then what’s the fucking point? Marginally better than the Tories but nothing near what you’d require to actually solve things. But we can’t have anything decent in this country so we all have to wearily accept these dreary, uninspiring drones and their embarrassing flag-shagging photo shoots, stilted focus-grouped language, watered down policies and obvious untrustworthy tendencies…

Absolutely spot on

"lets try this to improve things"

"oh that'll never work"

"how do you know, we've never tried"

I'm still annoyed that the electorate didn't have the guts to try something new

[Sangria]

I mean... https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/russia-ukraine-war-jeremy-corbyn-right-putin-oligarchs (Corbyn's quotes about Putin and Russia are all linked in that article.)

Jeremy Corbyn urges west to stop arming Ukraine
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/aug/02/jeremy-corbyn-urges-west-to-stop-arming-ukraine

(August 2022, so more recent than your editorial, which was March 2022).

Jeremy Corbyn says he stands by comments on Ukraine weapons supply
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/jeremy-corbyn-iain-dale-ukraine-labour-russia-b1017886.html

(on the above comments).

[Riquende]

I mean... https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/russia-ukraine-war-jeremy-corbyn-right-putin-oligarchs (Corbyn's quotes about Putin and Russia are all linked in that article.)

Honest question, is he still involved in Stop the War? And is their position that Ukraine shouldn't be defending itself militarily but instead only seek to negotiate with Russia? I know the issues are far more complicated than that, but the main thrust of it is that all fighting should cease immediately and everyone head for peace talks, in which Russian concern over NATO expansion is as important as Ukrainian self-determination?

Anyone can point to a history criticising Russians bankrolling their political enemies as not being Pro-Putin, but there are more immediate areas of interest.

[Sangria]

Honest question, is he still involved in Stop the War? And is their position that Ukraine shouldn't be defending itself militarily but instead only seek to negotiate with Russia? I know the issues are far more complicated than that, but the main thrust of it is that all fighting should cease immediately and everyone head for peace talks, in which Russian concern over NATO expansion is as important as Ukrainian self-determination?

Anyone can point to a history criticising Russians bankrolling their political enemies as not being Pro-Putin, but there are more immediate areas of interest.

Corbyn distanced himself from StW for a month, then went back in with a vengeance. The editorial MW posted was from March 2022, saying that Corbyn was right all along about Russia. Corbyn then popped up on a middle eastern channel in August, saying that the west should stop arming Ukraine and instead look for peace (drawing a parallel between Ukrainians and Russians dying in the war, because all lives matter). To show that he meant what he'd said, he reaffirmed his position.

"Far from being pro-Putin, Corbyn warned against him when others didn’t", says the article MW is so enthusiastic about.

[oldfordie]

Absolutely spot on

"lets try this to improve things"

"oh that'll never work"

"how do you know, we've never tried"

I'm still annoyed that the electorate didn't have the guts to try something new

Something new !!! It may have sounded new to you but it was back to the 70s/80s for the majority of voters.
Everyone has their own opinions on why the Red Wall fell, places like Bolsover should have been formality's if people wanted to return to the days of listening to the old comrades speeches. I heard many people from these constituencies being proud of the fact that they will not be the same as their parents and support Labour blindly. they had heard all the left wing talk all around them growing up.
 Corbyn supporters seem oblivious to this, what might sound exciting to them just sounds like something they heard all of their lives and they are sick of it. it never moved them.
They were still wrong to vote Tory but I can understand the rejection of Corbyns 1980s speeches, same with Piddock, went down a storm at the Durham Miners rally but hammered on the door steps by the people who had grown up and lived in these areas all their lives.  the last thing they wanted was a return to the days of listening to the left wing rhetoric.

[Alan_X]

[Jiminy Cricket]

Anyone who actually tried to change things in this country was going to get with both barrels and he got it from all sides, all the time.

I liked him, still do. If some hapless managerial dullard like Starmer is the best you can ever hope for then what’s the fucking point? Marginally better than the Tories but nothing near what you’d require to actually solve things. But we can’t have anything decent in this country so we all have to wearily accept these dreary, uninspiring drones and their embarrassing flag-shagging photo shoots, stilted focus-grouped language, watered down policies and obvious untrustworthy tendencies…

Absolutely spot on

"lets try this to improve things"

"oh that'll never work"

"how do you know, we've never tried"

I'm still annoyed that the electorate didn't have the guts to try something new

I am not sure if either of you understand the meanings of 'hapless' and 'dullard'. I have my criticisms of Starmer, but he is neither accident prone, nor slow/stupid. But I can think of another politician where those descriptions might be more fairly applied.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Absolutely spot on

"lets try this to improve things"

"oh that'll never work"

"how do you know, we've never tried"

I'm still annoyed that the electorate didn't have the guts to try something new

I am not sure if either of you understand the meanings of 'hapless' and 'dullard'. I have my criticisms of Starmer, but he is neither accident prone, nor slow/stupid. But I can think of another politician where those descriptions might be more fairly applied.

Comical isn't it,he did more in the first decade of his working life than that blagger Corbyn has done since the day his shot out of his dads danglies.

[Jiminy Cricket]

Yeah. Fair enough, that.

[Sangria]

Comical isn't it,he did more in the first decade of his working life than that blagger Corbyn has done since the day his shot out of his dads danglies.

It's an irony lost on some that his followers rage against career politicians like Cooper.

[Nobby Reserve]

Something new !!! It may have sounded new to you but it was back to the 70s/80s for the majority of voters.
Everyone has their own opinions on why the Red Wall fell, places like Bolsover should have been formality's if people wanted to return to the days of listening to the old comrades speeches. I heard many people from these constituencies being proud of the fact that they will not be the same as their parents and support Labour blindly. they had heard all the left wing talk all around them growing up.
 Corbyn supporters seem oblivious to this, what might sound exciting to them just sounds like something they heard all of their lives and they are sick of it. it never moved them.
They were still wrong to vote Tory but I can understand the rejection of Corbyns 1980s speeches, same with Piddock, went down a storm at the Durham Miners rally but hammered on the door steps by the people who had grown up and lived in these areas all their lives.  the last thing they wanted was a return to the days of listening to the left wing rhetoric.

"To defeat the Tories, you must become the Tories"

[oldfordie]

"To defeat the Tories, you must become the Tories"

Seriously. I don't know how you can possibly post something like that after all the talk about wanting to fight the Torys on tax evasion, Nom Doms etc, windfall tax, fighting  to defend and repair our NHS and the rest of it and then try to argue Labour believe they should follow Tory policys.

[Sangria]

"To defeat the Tories, you must become the Tories"

A gradual improvement means a great deal to people like me who aren't really coping. That's not good enough to satisfy your doctrine though, as a gradual improvement makes Labour no different from the Tories in your eyes.

[Father Ted]

You must have been gutted parts of Labour decided to throw the two elections before this, rather than help you.

Gradual improvement indeed.

[Indomitable_Carp]

Too much baggage, too many supporters ready to embarrass themselves and the party, and to be brutally honest not very bright, it still kind of amazes me that so many people seem to have pinned to much belief in him.

I would agree with the earlier poster who said it would have been far better for the left to have McDonnell as their candidate in 2015, had some of the same issues as Corbyn but just a brighter politician and actually seemed interested in getting into govt rather than "winning the argument".

I´m no fan of Corbyn these days, although I was at one point.

But for the bit in bold, is it really that amazing? He was the first out-and-out left wing leader the country had seen for many decades, in the middle of a time of austerity and massively rising inequality.

Not only that (and this is a point that is sometimes forgotten), Corbyn was following on from a Labour Party that had accepted the Tory line on needing to cut the deficit as part of it's 2015 manifesto, out of the belief Labour needed to "appeal to the centre".

For me, Corbyn arriving on the scene was the most politically hopeful I have felt in my adult life. Things didn't pan out, which is a shame. But it wasn't about Corbyn per se, it was that he represented genuine radical change in a country desperately in need of it.

[Sangria]

You must have been gutted parts of Labour decided to throw the two elections before this, rather than help you.

Gradual improvement indeed.

And the back stab legend, to go along with "They're all the same".

[Crumble]

It was a combination of things, mostly entirely predictable.

But the thing I didn't see coming at all, and that annoyed me the most (still does actually), was the strength of opposition within the Labour Party. I naively thought that after a MP from the left of the party had been properly elected leader, most MPs would quieten down and help push the rather attractive policy agenda forward. But right from the start when Mr C struggled to put a shadow cabinet together because the talented candidates all refused, through the chicken coup to the hopeless second Brexit Referendum policy, via Labour politicians vowing to "do something every day to undermine Jeremy Corbyn", he never had a chance. The 2017 referendum was a remarkably good performance, all things considered.

Oh well, any Labour government will be better than any Tory one, even if it doesn't move us much closer to a socialist nirvana!

[Elmo!]

It's generally the anti-Corbyn crew who bring him up.

Yep seems like that to me. Mainly Andy. 

[filopastry]

I´m no fan of Corbyn these days, although I was at one point.

But for the bit in bold, is it really that amazing? He was the first out-and-out left wing leader the country had seen for many decades, in the middle of a time of austerity and massively rising inequality.

Not only that (and this is a point that is sometimes forgotten), Corbyn was following on from a Labour Party that had accepted the Tory line on needing to cut the deficit as part of it's 2015 manifesto, out of the belief Labour needed to "appeal to the centre".

For me, Corbyn arriving on the scene was the most politically hopeful I have felt in my adult life. Things didn't pan out, which is a shame. But it wasn't about Corbyn per se, it was that he represented genuine radical change in a country desperately in need of it.

I think my point was more that I think a lot of people projected their beliefs onto Corbyn and felt he was enthusiastically pushing them, in reality I always thought the manifestos were a bit of a mishmash of odd priorities. Its easier to shout in opposition than it is to deliver things in power

As an example, since they lost control of Labour I have heard voices on the left calling for a £15 an hour minimum wage and demanding that Starmer pushes for that, weirdly though that wasn't in the manifesto when they did control the party, I believe it was £10 then.

The weird thing is though there probably is a place in British politics for an economic left wing populist, for Corbyn though its the views on foreign affairs etc that tends to turn off swathes of the electorate, I always thought the response to the Salisbury attack was the end of the relatively popular period for Corbyn's leadership which began in the 2017 election campaign.

[Shankly998]

Some of his individual policies were very good but he wasn't an effective politician and had a lot of baggage and he managed to lose an election to the Maybot.

[Riquende]

I think my point was more that I think a lot of people projected their beliefs onto Corbyn and felt he was enthusiastically pushing them

See also, Brexit, Trump et al.

"I want change! This politician/movement promises change, which will certainly be the change I want"

[Indomitable_Carp]

I think my point was more that I think a lot of people projected their beliefs onto Corbyn and felt he was enthusiastically pushing them, in reality I always thought the manifestos were a bit of a mishmash of odd priorities. Its easier to shout in opposition than it is to deliver things in power

As an example, since they lost control of Labour I have heard voices on the left calling for a £15 an hour minimum wage and demanding that Starmer pushes for that, weirdly though that wasn't in the manifesto when they did control the party, I believe it was £10 then.

The weird thing is though there probably is a place in British politics for an economic left wing populist, for Corbyn though its the views on foreign affairs etc that tends to turn off swathes of the electorate, I always thought the response to the Salisbury attack was the end of the relatively popular period for Corbyn's leadership which began in the 2017 election campaign.

I agree with you on all points. But the thing is, who else was pushing this at the time if not Corbyn? People latched onto him because that was all there was to latch onto.

In 2015, in its attempt at centrist appeal, Labour managed to throw away a nailed-on hung Parliament for the first Tory majority since 1992. That was a worse loss than either of those under Corbyn's Labour (because at least Corbyn was predicted to lose and lived up to expectation) and paved the way for the Brexit referendum. Disastrous. Corbyn appeared out of that vacuum, and was being dragged down by the same "centrists" who had lost the 2015 election almost from the word go.

It takes two to tango, and both "factions" of the Labour party bore equal responsibility. We would never have ended up with Corbyn if Labour hadn't gone so far the other way in the same flawed mentality that led to the collapse of social democratic parties across Western democracies.

Either way I'm past all this now. Just want Labour to win the next election.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

It's generally the anti-Corbyn crew who bring him up.

Oh, and Sunak. Who still throws it our in PMQ's even though Corbyn is no longer in the PLP.

It's not. I see stuff on Social Media every single day. They are making films about him. They have protest groups. They have meetings and protests about him.

Unless you are saying people making films to support him and going to meetings to support him and having protests to support him are actually Tory plants who support him by opposing him?

Interesting

It is possible that none of these things happen and stuff on Facebook and other SM is just bullshit? Which would appear to be quite apt.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Absolutely spot on

"lets try this to improve things"

"oh that'll never work"

"how do you know, we've never tried"

I'm still annoyed that the electorate didn't have the guts to try something new

You can console yourself that Ukraine is still free and fighting and that Russia haven't invaded us. Having left the EU and openly stating that we had no nuclear deterrant and given the rhetoric from Russia even with our nuclear arms, I'd have been a bit worried if that dickhead was in charge.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

"To defeat the Tories, you must become the Tories"

To never be elected and to have no chance of ever being elected and giving the country no chance ever to defeat the Tories or revert their damage is better in your eyes is it?

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Yep seems like that to me. Mainly Andy. 

Take a look through my post history. You won't be the first or last poster to admit that I was fully behind him when he took the wheel.

I honestly wanted him to succeed and I really was engaged with the ideas he could bring to the table, so I was as disappointed as anyone that he was utterly fucking shite and I suppose it should be expected. He was born with a silver spoon in his life, never had a real job and never had to deal with the real problems in poverty had ever faced. You can argue that this is most politicians and that's where I think the system needs shaking up.

For me, someone who is an MP should have to live in the worst areas, take public transport and live on minimum wage.

If they did that then they would see the effects of their policies have on real people. Most of them are a world away from the life of real people. That's why I like Starmer (Even though he's a bit dull) - he came from working class parents, worked his bollocks off, had an actual job with real responsibility and earned his place in society.

How can someone that has never had poverty or never even had a real fucking job be expected to realistically represent people?

[Elmo!]

Take a look through my post history. You won't be the first or last poster to admit that I was fully behind him when he took the wheel.

I honestly wanted him to succeed and I really was engaged with the ideas he could bring to the table, so I was as disappointed as anyone that he was utterly fucking shite and I suppose it should be expected. He was born with a silver spoon in his life, never had a real job and never had to deal with the real problems in poverty had ever faced. You can argue that this is most politicians and that's where I think the system needs shaking up.

For me, someone who is an MP should have to live in the worst areas, take public transport and live on minimum wage.

If they did that then they would see the effects of their policies have on real people. Most of them are a world away from the life of real people. That's why I like Starmer (Even though he's a bit dull) - he came from working class parents, worked his bollocks off, had an actual job with real responsibility and earned his place in society.

How can someone that has never had poverty or never even had a real fucking job be expected to realistically represent people?

I know Andy, it just seems to me that almost everyone on RAWK has moved on, yet the subject keeps getting brought back up again when you decide to give us the latest on your social media feed.

It's time to move on.

[John C]

Move on. Forwards, not backwards.

....yes....

It's time to move on.