Topic: Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain

[LFC when it suits]

ACL is not 6-9 months. It's 9 months. Anything earlier than 9 months is irresponsible.

For professional athletes, 6-9 months is the range depending on the athlete and how they respond to rehab. These are professional athletes who spends hours rehabbing their injuries with the best care around. Even the NHS website mention 6 months.

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/knee-ligament-surgery/recovery/

My point is that with a 6 month return date, it is more likely to be the ACL rather than the LCL, MCL or PCL but its speculation.

A friend of mine did his ACL not too long ago and they replaced his ligament with that of a cadaver.  He was saying his doctor said that it was more and more common that they use cadavers rather then taking a graft from the hamstring as the recovery is quicker. 

No idea how accurate that is by the way

The problem with cadavers as opposed to grafts from the patella tendon or hamstring is that their is a possibility the body may reject it and there may be complications and the surgery has to be done all over again and would be even longer out. But usually the recovery is less then using a graft and in theory has the least effect on the body are you aren't compromising  any other muscle groups or joints in the body.

[Welshred]

For professional athletes, 6-9 months is the range depending on the athlete and how they respond to rehab. These are professional athletes who spends hours rehabbing their injuries with the best care around. Even the NHS website mention 6 months.

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/knee-ligament-surgery/recovery/

My point is that with a 6 month return date, it is more likely to be the ACL rather than the LCL, MCL or PCL but its speculation.

Elite athletes or not the biological changes to an ACL graft do not differ and MRI studies show that the new ACL fibres are still immature in the graft at 6 months post-op and vulnerable to injury. Peer reviewed studies also show that there is a 50% reduction in reinjury for each month you delay return to play/sport between 6 and 9 months. It's irresponsible to bring anyone back to contact sport prior to 6 months.. 6 months is the return to non-contact sports. 9 months is the return to contact sports. There's a growing body of evidence to suggest that 9 months is too early as well, especially seeing as the rate of ACL reinjury as sky high.

6 months could be anything. It could be LCL but unlikely. It could be quite a big meniscal repair. It could be a posterolateral corner injury as these typically return approximately 6 months after surgery. What it likely isn't is ACL or PCL, if it is then Ox is returning from February onwards next year, not November this year.

[BabuYagu]

Elite athletes or not the biological changes to an ACL graft do not differ and MRI studies show that the new ACL fibres are still immature in the graft at 6 months post-op and vulnerable to injury. Peer reviewed studies also show that there is a 50% reduction in reinjury for each month you delay return to play/sport between 6 and 9 months. It's irresponsible to bring anyone back to contact sport prior to 6 months.. 6 months is the return to non-contact sports. 9 months is the return to contact sports. There's a growing body of evidence to suggest that 9 months is too early as well, especially seeing as the rate of ACL reinjury as sky high.

6 months could be anything. It could be LCL but unlikely. It could be quite a big meniscal repair. It could be a posterolateral corner injury as these typically return approximately 6 months after surgery. What it likely is ACL or PCL, if it is then Ox is returning from February onwards next year, not November this year.

I genuinely don't know why you wasted your time studying medicine mate. Google has made your job redundant! Although I can't laugh, translators and transcribers are even more redundant

[Djozer]

Well, this is all a bit shit.

[El Lobo]

Elite athletes or not the biological changes to an ACL graft do not differ and MRI studies show that the new ACL fibres are still immature in the graft at 6 months post-op and vulnerable to injury. Peer reviewed studies also show that there is a 50% reduction in reinjury for each month you delay return to play/sport between 6 and 9 months. It's irresponsible to bring anyone back to contact sport prior to 6 months.. 6 months is the return to non-contact sports. 9 months is the return to contact sports. There's a growing body of evidence to suggest that 9 months is too early as well, especially seeing as the rate of ACL reinjury as sky high.

6 months could be anything. It could be LCL but unlikely. It could be quite a big meniscal repair. It could be a posterolateral corner injury as these typically return approximately 6 months after surgery. What it likely is ACL or PCL, if it is then Ox is returning from February onwards next year, not November this year.

...aka, now go get your fucking shinebox 

Love reading your posts, fascinating even though I have no idea what most of the body parts mentioned are.

[Welshred]

...aka, now go get your fucking shinebox 

Love reading your posts, fascinating even though I have no idea what most of the body parts mentioned are.

No problem, happy to help where I can but I do stress that this is all conjecture based on the timelines they've set out and my clinical experience. I have absolutely no idea what the actual injury is but can give educated guesses.

[LFC when it suits]

Elite athletes or not the biological changes to an ACL graft do not differ and MRI studies show that the new ACL fibres are still immature in the graft at 6 months post-op and vulnerable to injury. Peer reviewed studies also show that there is a 50% reduction in reinjury for each month you delay return to play/sport between 6 and 9 months. It's irresponsible to bring anyone back to contact sport prior to 6 months.. 6 months is the return to non-contact sports. 9 months is the return to contact sports. There's a growing body of evidence to suggest that 9 months is too early as well, especially seeing as the rate of ACL reinjury as sky high.

6 months could be anything. It could be LCL but unlikely. It could be quite a big meniscal repair. It could be a posterolateral corner injury as these typically return approximately 6 months after surgery. What it likely isn't is ACL or PCL, if it is then Ox is returning from February onwards next year, not November this year.

Fair enough. Lets hope your are correct and it isn't his ACL.

[SteveZissou]

If we don't learn anything from this season (and I won't be surprised if that's the case) then Ox's injury is not a problem at all, because we have Lallana to play until Ox returns.

In January if PSG offer us silly money like 120 million euros for 30-year-old Lallana, we'd probably let him go cos Ox would be back then. He will pull us through for the Champions League KO rounds, and in the following season we could look for a Lallana replacement when the market is bigger.

[El Lobo]

If we don't learn anything from this season (and I won't be surprised if that's the case) then Ox's injury is not a problem at all, because we have Lallana to play until Ox returns.

In January if PSG offer us silly money like 120 million euros for 30-year-old Lallana, we'd probably let him go cos Ox would be back then. He will pull us through for the Champions League KO rounds, and in the following season we could look for a Lallana replacement when the market is bigger.

Ace, I'd have their hands off for £120 million for Lallana. Any genuine links?

[an fear dearg]

Anyone seen that tweet doing the rounds that he sorted the lad and dad he gave his shirt to at the city game tickets for the final? Fucking quality that.

Saw it on Facebook there...top, top lad is Ox!!!

[duvva 💅]

Elite athletes or not the biological changes to an ACL graft do not differ and MRI studies show that the new ACL fibres are still immature in the graft at 6 months post-op and vulnerable to injury. Peer reviewed studies also show that there is a 50% reduction in reinjury for each month you delay return to play/sport between 6 and 9 months. It's irresponsible to bring anyone back to contact sport prior to 6 months.. 6 months is the return to non-contact sports. 9 months is the return to contact sports. There's a growing body of evidence to suggest that 9 months is too early as well, especially seeing as the rate of ACL reinjury as sky high.

6 months could be anything. It could be LCL but unlikely. It could be quite a big meniscal repair. It could be a posterolateral corner injury as these typically return approximately 6 months after surgery. What it likely isn't is ACL or PCL, if it is then Ox is returning from February onwards next year, not November this year.

When you say return in Feb, is that to the team or to proper training? With this kind of lay off players usually take a few months at least to get back up to speed especially if they’ve missed pre-season.
He’ll probably just be getting back to his best as the season ends, so I don’t think we should judge him too harshly if we don’t see the best of him until the 19/20 season now.

Just hope he can get back to the same level as he really was starting to look a player.

[Welshred]

That should be to training. 9 months post-op is the current recommended marker for return to full contact sport for ACL repair.

[lamonti]

What a rubbish injury for him. We won't get him back to where he was for a good long while - much more than six months typically even if he's back training and playing.

[rakey_lfc]

Anyone seen that tweet doing the rounds that he sorted the lad and dad he gave his shirt to at the city game tickets for the final? Fucking quality that.

Just seen it, absolute class from him at a time when he must be feeling pretty low himself.

[thejbs]

Anyone seen that tweet doing the rounds that he sorted the lad and dad he gave his shirt to at the city game tickets for the final? Fucking quality that.

Dammit. I think I've got a bit of a man-crush.

[Clint Eastwood]

He's a good'un. Regardless of what happens in Kiev, he will be considered one of the main reasons that we are there. The moment his thunderbolt hit the back of the net against City, something changed for me anyway. Felt like we were on the verge of something.

[jillcwhomever]

I still feel gutted that he's not going to be playing in the final. 

[Caligula?]

I guess from everything I've read on this thread and in general that we'll probably see him eased into the side at the earliest next year, maybe late January or early February. As to when he might return to the form he showed pre-injury, well that could maybe even be the start of the 2019/20 season.

Good thing we have Lallana coming back to fitness and have Keita coming in, with possibly other recruitments in the summer as well. Gutted for the Ox, but that's just how it is.

[.adam]

Think the way to think of him next season will be as a set of fresh legs when people start to drop towards the tail-end of the season. This season we could've killed for a fresh set of legs in the middle at the business end of the season. Maybe Ox has help push us over the line for a high league finish or another cup run.

[sms1986]

Think the way to think of him next season will be as a set of fresh legs when people start to drop towards the tail-end of the season. This season we could've killed for a fresh set of legs in the middle at the business end of the season. Maybe Ox has help push us over the line for a high league finish or another cup run.

Hopefully he'll have a massive impact on us when he returns.

[McSquared]

Let’s hope we strengthen the midfield further rather than muddle through to January

[sms1986]

Let’s hope we strengthen the midfield further rather than muddle through to January

Keita is incoming and I'm sure Klopp will look to bring further players in as well.

[PhilV]

Full fitness for him will be January I reckon, as in he can start and play 90 mins... gutted for him, he was doing so well but these things have to be managed very carefully, come back too early and boom, injury again.

[Red Beret]

This is gutting for a lad who seemed to have finally put his injury woes behind him.  Even a six month layoff will likely not see him back to his best until towards the end of next season.  Lad's been an absolute revelation since he joined us.

[Adam_LFC]

I think Lallana will be his "replacement", whether he is the same player anymore or not. Can't really see us signing Keita and another midfielder for some reason.

Then you'd have: Henderson, Milner, Gini, Lallana, Ox, Keita when all are fit for 3 positions (assuming Can goes). Which seems enough?

[CraigDS]

I think Lallana will be his "replacement", whether he is the same player anymore or not. Can't really see us signing Keita and another midfielder for some reason.

Then you'd have: Henderson, Milner, Gini, Lallana, Ox, Keita when all are fit for 3 positions (assuming Can goes). Which seems enough?

Well Ox is out, so it then becomes 5 into 3. Two of those 5 have experienced long term injury issues during the last few seasons, with one of them (Lallana) approaching Sturridge levels of unreliability. One of those 5 turns 33 next season too.

We almost certainly need another midfielder. Think we did before Ox was ruled out for so long and even more so now.

[stevensr123]

I think Lallana will be his "replacement", whether he is the same player anymore or not. Can't really see us signing Keita and another midfielder for some reason.

Then you'd have: Henderson, Milner, Gini, Lallana, Ox, Keita when all are fit for 3 positions (assuming Can goes). Which seems enough?

would be madness though wouldn't it not getting another midfielder with can leaving , phil gone, OX out till probably January (in terms of full form and fitness), lallana picking up all the injuries lately, Milner being a year older etc

[Kansti]

Side tracking a bit here, and I don't mean to be rude but...what is up with english players and injuries? Ox, Lallana, Clyne, Gomez and even Henderson are so prone to lengthy spells on the sideline. Is there a probable cause behind this or just mere coincidence? 

[BabuYagu]

I think Lallana will be his "replacement", whether he is the same player anymore or not. Can't really see us signing Keita and another midfielder for some reason.

Then you'd have: Henderson, Milner, Gini, Lallana, Ox, Keita when all are fit for 3 positions (assuming Can goes). Which seems enough?

Craig's reply gives you a good reason why. But ultimately you need to look at those players in terms of roles and likely availability as depth changes when you do so.

We have Henderson as the only player in the group who plays the #6 role. He has had fitness problems since Klopp arrived and, while #6 is his best role in Klopp's system, he is far from being ideally suited to it and is a clear area we could upgrade. Gini has played there a handful of times as an emergency option. It's doubtful that we lose a starting option here in this role and don't replace him.

We have Keita and Lallana as the only two players who offers high level penetration centrally - to link and create for the forwards. Lallana has barely kicked a ball competitively in a year. Keita is a new signing and is likely seen more as 1st choice as the supporting #8 rather than the hybrid #10 role. Plus we were already looking at Lemar last season - a player who shone in this role for Caen & France.

So while listing all the midfielders the club has gives the illusion of good depth, in reality there are 3 distinct roles in midfield and we look a body short in two of them, hence why our midfield has been dysfunctional for most of the season and is certainly the area we will likely see the most movement this summer and also the area where the biggest gains can be made.

[Mr Mingebag Squid]

Craig's reply gives you a good reason why. But ultimately you need to look at those players in terms of roles and likely availability as depth changes when you do so.

We have Henderson as the only player in the group who plays the #6 role. He has had fitness problems since Klopp arrived and, while #6 is his best role in Klopp's system, he is far from being ideally suited to it and is a clear area we could upgrade. Gini has played there a handful of times as an emergency option. It's doubtful that we lose a starting option here in this role and don't replace him.

We have Keita and Lallana as the only two players who offers high level penetration centrally - to link and create for the forwards. Lallana has barely kicked a ball competitively in a year. Keita is a new signing and is likely seen more as 1st choice as the supporting #8 rather than the hybrid #10 role. Plus we were already looking at Lemar last season - a player who shone in this role for Caen & France.

So while listing all the midfielders the club has gives the illusion of good depth, in reality there are 3 distinct roles in midfield and we look a body short in two of them, hence why our midfield has been dysfunctional for most of the season and is certainly the area we will likely see the most movement this summer and also the area where the biggest gains can be made.

Caen?   

[BER]

Caen?   

Lemars club before Monaco.

[BabuYagu]

Caen?   

Yeah, he's been used more as a wide player for Monaco and in more recent appearances for France, but his break out season was with Caen playing mostly as an #8/#10 similar to how Lallana & Chamberlain have been for us.

He (or someone like him) will likely be signed to offer both depth for Chamberlain/Lallana and in the wide areas.

[Schmidt]

Craig's reply gives you a good reason why. But ultimately you need to look at those players in terms of roles and likely availability as depth changes when you do so.

We have Henderson as the only player in the group who plays the #6 role. He has had fitness problems since Klopp arrived and, while #6 is his best role in Klopp's system, he is far from being ideally suited to it and is a clear area we could upgrade. Gini has played there a handful of times as an emergency option. It's doubtful that we lose a starting option here in this role and don't replace him.

We have Keita and Lallana as the only two players who offers high level penetration centrally - to link and create for the forwards. Lallana has barely kicked a ball competitively in a year. Keita is a new signing and is likely seen more as 1st choice as the supporting #8 rather than the hybrid #10 role. Plus we were already looking at Lemar last season - a player who shone in this role for Caen & France.

So while listing all the midfielders the club has gives the illusion of good depth, in reality there are 3 distinct roles in midfield and we look a body short in two of them, hence why our midfield has been dysfunctional for most of the season and is certainly the area we will likely see the most movement this summer and also the area where the biggest gains can be made.

It'll be interesting to see what happens for sure, personally I can only see us signing one midfielder (other than Keita) to rotate with Henderson. I don't see Klopp being ruthless with the likes of Lallana and Milner, instead we'll consider the group of Gini/Ox/Keita/Milner/Lallana enough for the two roles ahead of the #6 and bet on Lallana getting over his issues and AoC coming back to reinforce us in the new year.

[Dench57]

I think Lallana will be his "replacement", whether he is the same player anymore or not. Can't really see us signing Keita and another midfielder for some reason.

That would be negligent, given Lallana's fitness issues and the inevitability that age/injuries will be taking their toll. Especially considering the amount of energy required to make this system work.

[GinKop]

He's a good'un. Regardless of what happens in Kiev, he will be considered one of the main reasons that we are there. The moment his thunderbolt hit the back of the net against City, something changed for me anyway. Felt like we were on the verge of something.

Goal of the season for me in everything it signifies.

[Mr Mingebag Squid]

Yeah, he's been used more as a wide player for Monaco and in more recent appearances for France, but his break out season was with Caen playing mostly as an #8/#10 similar to how Lallana & Chamberlain have been for us.

He (or someone like him) will likely be signed to offer both depth for Chamberlain/Lallana and in the wide areas.

Ah - didn't realise that. Everyday is a school day!

[Adam_LFC]

That would be negligent, given Lallana's fitness issues and the inevitability that age/injuries will be taking their toll. Especially considering the amount of energy required to make this system work.

I thought it was negligent at the time not signing a Coutinho replacement, as well as not having a backup plan to not getting Van Dijk in the summer.

Not saying that we shouldn't buy another midfielder, I think it is needed if only just to improve quality, nevermind to add to the options. But I am unconvinced on the club going that route. We will see.

[BabuYagu]

I thought it was negligent at the time not signing a Coutinho replacement, as well as not having a backup plan to not getting Van Dijk in the summer.

Not saying that we shouldn't buy another midfielder, I think it is needed if only just to improve quality, nevermind to add to the options. But I am unconvinced on the club going that route. We will see.

Surely, if anything, the VVD transfer should be a good example of why we were right to wait for the ideal player to suit our needs rather than just working through a list of whoever is available for transfer at a particular moment in time?

[Malcolm Night]

Gutted that he's missing the final, knee injuries always seem to come at the most unfortunate times for our players. At least a large chunk of this injury is over the summer break so we can hopefully get him back fully fit before the festive period part of next season.

I think Lallana will be his "replacement", whether he is the same player anymore or not. Can't really see us signing Keita and another midfielder for some reason.

Then you'd have: Henderson, Milner, Gini, Lallana, Ox, Keita when all are fit for 3 positions (assuming Can goes). Which seems enough?

Could also add Grujic who has had a great season at Cardiff to that list, albeit in a slightly different role to Ox. I think adding another attacking player who can play in both midfield or as winger/attacker would be a good idea though due to the uncertainty as to how Lallana will play after all these injuries and the fact we have barely any cover for Mane or Salah, but you could be right.

[BabuYagu]

Gutted that he's missing the final, knee injuries always seem to come at the most unfortunate times for our players. At least a large chunk of this injury is over the summer break so we can hopefully get him back fully fit before the festive part of next season.

Could also add Grujic who has had a great season at Cardiff to that list, albeit in a slightly different role to Ox. I think adding another attacking player who can play in both midfield or as winger/attacker would be a good idea though due to the uncertainty as to how Lallana will play after all these injuries and the fact we have barely any cover for Mane or Salah, but you could be right.

Grujic is more likely the Can replacement in the squad, if anything. He was being groomed for the role in the U23 this season and from what I hear, we targeted Championship clubs willing to use him there for a loan.