Author Topic: Ground share rears its ugly head again  (Read 66591 times)

Offline megabomberman

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Re: Ground share rears its ugly head again
« Reply #40 on: November 26, 2009, 12:43:00 pm »
I was trying so hard to read sarcasm in this post but I couldn't find any.

It's about tradition. Uniqueness. "Fortress Anfield." There are so many fans who like the idea of a ground holding its own soul, in a sense, holding the very 'heart' of its support.

How can there be a Red Soul in a Red and Blue Ground? How can there be uniqueness? How can there be tradition?

How can there be identity?

Thanks for the post,

That is a genuinely strong argument, I agree with you 100% on this point, and is much better than most of the contributions eg "fuck off",

I believe there are obvious pros as well as cons like the one you mentioned...

and I think a lot of the people opposed choose not to weigh up both options when considering their verdict

Offline DuncMcD

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Re: Ground share rears its ugly head again
« Reply #41 on: November 26, 2009, 12:44:02 pm »
Given their situation and ours I don't think a bad solution at all. Look at the clubs in Italy, AC and Inter & Roma and Lazio fans hate each others guts yet they still share a stadium.

They share yes, but as far as I'm aware they are all looking to break away to their own stadiums. Certainly the two Roman clubs are seriously looking into it.

Offline TipTopKop

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Re: Ground share rears its ugly head again
« Reply #42 on: November 26, 2009, 12:45:06 pm »
It won't happen

Offline jaygraham

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Re: Ground share rears its ugly head again
« Reply #43 on: November 26, 2009, 12:45:50 pm »
Any Liverpool fan that is in favour of this needs to have a good hard long look at themselves.



Aldo is in favour of it.

Personally i wish Hicks or Gillett would come out and tell everton to piss off.
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Offline jaygraham

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Re: Ground share rears its ugly head again
« Reply #44 on: November 26, 2009, 12:46:45 pm »
Oh and Lazio fans, Roma fans, Inter fans and AC fans HATE the fact that they share and would move out to thier own stadium in an instant.
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Offline Simon C

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Re: Ground share rears its ugly head again
« Reply #45 on: November 26, 2009, 12:49:03 pm »
Oh and Lazio fans, Roma fans, Inter fans and AC fans HATE the fact that they share and would move out to thier own stadium in an instant.
I agree they do and the reason they do it is that it is mutually beneficial to both from a financial point of view.

Offline GerryCrunch

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Re: Ground share rears its ugly head again
« Reply #46 on: November 26, 2009, 12:49:14 pm »
It makes sense both clubs need a new stadium neither can afford it.
Buy a joint stadium get a healthier bank balance and when generating more money and some success in say twenty years LFC can move on.
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Offline DuncMcD

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Re: Ground share rears its ugly head again
« Reply #47 on: November 26, 2009, 12:49:34 pm »
How can there be identity?

The most important aspect, from a fans point of view, in my opinion.

Read somewhere once that there are effectively three things that can make a football team unique:- The kit/colours, the fans, and the stadium. Take away one of those and we will be losing a big part of what makes up the identity of Liverpool Football Club.

Ground share? May well make economical sense but no way do I want it.

Offline DonkeyWan

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Re: Ground share rears its ugly head again
« Reply #48 on: November 26, 2009, 12:50:30 pm »
I'm not enthusiastically pro-groundshare, but I'm open it if it makes financial sense and there is a proper kop, Shankly/Paisley gates, Hillsborough memorial etc.
Right there is where the ground share argument falls down. Everton have their heroes they want to laud, we have ours. What happens in a ground share, does one stand get called the Billy Lidell, the other the Cahill stand? Do we have two museums? Where do we place the memorials/statues? Who gets prominence? A statue to Moyes and behind it one for Shankly? Do we have Liverpool in massive letters on one side and Everton on the other? What about the Liverpool crest the players love to touch on their way to the pitch, do Everton get one of their own? Before or after Liverpool? What you end up with is either a generic bowl with no identifiable traits or some shit heap, bastard hybrid, like surgically grafting Jessica Alba on to Quasimodo.

And where will the stadium go? Where will the ground share be? What capacity? We want a 70,000 seater if we can to compete with united, but Everton won't want that, it will cost a fortune and look ridiculous.

I keep hearing nonsensical statements like 'it makes financial sense. The only people who say can't have ever been to a game, they must view it as a purely telly experience. Financially it makes sense to share a bed with your brother and live with your parents, but who the fuck wants to live like that?
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Offline Olives

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Re: Ground share rears its ugly head again
« Reply #49 on: November 26, 2009, 12:51:10 pm »
However, while groundshare remains a political dish of the day, I have yet to see any concrete suggestions as to where, how, cost share etc.

there are none yet, because both clubs thought they would be in new stadiums by 2011 or so... but neither will be.  all I am saying is that we should be open and listen to potential suggestions, rather than dismiss them out of hand. 


btw, my preferred option would be to redevelop Anfield adding to the capacity, but if we are moving to a new stadium anyway, I don't see the problem with sharing it with Everton.
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Offline megabomberman

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Re: Ground share rears its ugly head again
« Reply #50 on: November 26, 2009, 12:51:16 pm »
Oh and Lazio fans, Roma fans, Inter fans and AC fans HATE the fact that they share and would move out to thier own stadium in an instant.

In a perfect world every club would like a 60,000+ seater stadium to call their own, but it's not that easy, how can Liverpool in their current financial state feasibly build their own ground without some loaded sheik fronting a load of cash..

Times are tough, all options should be on the table for consideration

Offline Terry de Niro

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Re: Ground share rears its ugly head again
« Reply #51 on: November 26, 2009, 12:54:10 pm »
I don't see the problem with sharing it with Everton.
There's your problem right there, a fucking big problem at that ..

No chance..

Offline Daranoza

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Re: Ground share rears its ugly head again
« Reply #52 on: November 26, 2009, 12:54:22 pm »
Thanks for the post,

That is a genuinely strong argument, I agree with you 100% on this point, and is much better than most of the contributions eg "fuck off",

I believe there are obvious pros as well as cons like the one you mentioned...

and I think a lot of the people opposed choose not to weigh up both options when considering their verdict

There are pros if you look objectively, but we as a city and as a support-base, lets say, do not like to look objectively. It sounds very elitist, but we like to think we are something special.

You hear other team's players talking about coming to Anfield, about what a special place it is, about what special fans it has. A unique atmosphere, some of them say. There are many who are concerned that a move away from Anfield will ruin that; will take away some of the soul of the club because we're no longer playing at that famous ground. It's always been a difficult acknowledgement, the fact that in order to progress we're going to have to leave Anfield behind. The thought has always been that we will try to take as much of the spirit and uniqueness with us wherever we go; to 'invoke the spirit of Anfield' wherever our new home may be.

Yes, a groundshare might make financial sense in some ways, but we're not objective fans. We're traditional, and as traditional fans a shared ground would remove a lot that made us special; that made us different. Our identity. Our home. 'Home' would not be our home any more, would it? Anfield (or whatever the new name will be) would not be Liverpool but Liverpool and Everton. Red AND Blue.

I hate to use a cliche but there are some things that money cannot buy and there are some things that should not be 'sold out' for anything.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2009, 12:57:27 pm by Daranoza »
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Offline Liverbird 2010

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Re: Ground share rears its ugly head again
« Reply #53 on: November 26, 2009, 12:54:42 pm »
Times are tough, all options should be on the table for consideration

For Everton yes, we can stay where we are you's cant.
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Re: Ground share rears its ugly head again
« Reply #54 on: November 26, 2009, 12:55:13 pm »
Whilst being neither for, nor against groundshare ( open to persuasion is my status), the insular reflex anti sentiments depress me.

Some people just do not get how far we have fallen behind as a Club, a ground and a City in recent years.
The 1966 World Cup venues were Goodison ( then superior to Anfield), Villa Park, White City, Old Trafford, Ayresome Park, Roker Park, Hillsborough and the Old Wembley. Of those, only Old Trafford remains as a currrent World Cup Venue ( Villa Park would be too small). So 43 years on the great city of Liverpool cannot even compete as a World Cup venue either at Anfield or Goodison. Now I am not saying that being a World Cup Venue is the be all and end all - but it shows our (non) standing. Outside of football, Aintree racecourse is a poor relation now to York/ Cheltenham/ Ascot/ Newmarket and I despair of some peoples preparedness to accept second best.

The Groundshare debate is NOT an isolated one, it forces the viabilty of all the alternatives to be examined. There is only one thing which i will not accept, and that is the dumb indifference which has kept us in an increasingly unsuitable ground with no tangible proposals to progress in sight.
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Offline KingKolo

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Re: Ground share rears its ugly head again
« Reply #55 on: November 26, 2009, 12:56:17 pm »
Perhaps it's desperation, but I'm coming round to the possibility.

Milan and Inter seem to do ok.

Offline Simon C

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Re: Ground share rears its ugly head again
« Reply #56 on: November 26, 2009, 12:56:18 pm »
Right there is where the ground share argument falls down. Everton have their heroes they want to laud, we have ours. What happens in a ground share, does one stand get called the Billy Lidell, the other the Cahill stand? Do we have two museums? Where do we place the memorials/statues? Who gets prominence? A statue to Moyes and behind it one for Shankly? Do we have Liverpool in massive letters on one side and Everton on the other? What about the Liverpool crest the players love to touch on their way to the pitch, do Everton get one of their own? Before or after Liverpool? What you end up with is either a generic bowl with no identifiable traits or some shit heap, bastard hybrid, like surgically grafting Jessica Alba on to Quasimodo.

And where will the stadium go? Where will the ground share be? What capacity? We want a 70,000 seater if we can to compete with united, but Everton won't want that, it will cost a fortune and look ridiculous.

I keep hearing nonsensical statements like 'it makes financial sense. The only people who say can't have ever been to a game, they must view it as a purely telly experience. Financially it makes sense to share a bed with your brother and live with your parents, but who the fuck wants to live like that?
I've been to plenty of games and your points I didn't consider before I read them.  They are well made and have given me further food for thought.

Offline Something Else

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Re: Ground share rears its ugly head again
« Reply #57 on: November 26, 2009, 12:57:09 pm »
Perhaps it's desperation, but I'm coming round to the possibility.

Milan and Inter seem to do ok.

you spelt "stupidity" wrong there.

Offline No666

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Re: Ground share rears its ugly head again
« Reply #58 on: November 26, 2009, 12:58:43 pm »
Aldo is in favour of it.

Personally i wish Hicks or Gillett would come out and tell everton to piss off.

they will. It will buy them cheap approval from the fans. Whether you can believe them or not is another matter.

Offline Trada

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Re: Ground share rears its ugly head again
« Reply #59 on: November 26, 2009, 12:58:58 pm »
They can fuck right off.

But we know this is going to become a big debate in the media overlooking what the fans think apart from the few dicks they find to back up their point of view.
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Offline Liverbird 2010

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Re: Ground share rears its ugly head again
« Reply #60 on: November 26, 2009, 01:00:47 pm »
Perhaps it's desperation, but I'm coming round to the possibility.

Milan and Inter seem to do ok.

Is that why Inter, lazio and roma have all recently put in applications for new stadiums their own one?
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Offline megabomberman

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Re: Ground share rears its ugly head again
« Reply #61 on: November 26, 2009, 01:01:27 pm »
There are pros if you look objectively, but we as a city and as a support-base, lets say, do not like to look objectively. It sounds very elitist, but we like to think we are something special.

You hear other team's players talking about coming to Anfield, about what a special place it is, about what special fans it has. A unique atmosphere, some of them say. There are many who are concerned that a move away from Anfield will ruin that; will take away some of the soul of the club because we're no longer playing at that famous ground. It's always been a difficult acknowledgement, the fact that in order to progress we're going to have to leave Anfield behind. The thought has always been that we will try to take as much of the spirit and uniqueness with us wherever we go; to 'invoke the spirit of Anfield' wherever our new home may be.

Yes, a groundshare might make financial sense in some ways, but we're not objective fans. We're traditional, and as traditional fans a shared ground would remove a lot that made us special; that made us different. Our identity. Our home. 'Home' would not be our home any more, would it? Anfield (or whatever the new name will be) would not be Liverpool but Liverpool and Everton. Red AND Blue.

I hate to use a cliche but there are some things that money cannot buy and there are some things that should not be 'sold out' for anything.

Top post,

I won't even attempt to spoil it by introducing spineless finance into the equation, it really is the destroyer of football and the sorry state of the modern game..

Offline mooseymoo

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Re: Ground share rears its ugly head again
« Reply #62 on: November 26, 2009, 01:02:57 pm »
groundshare? go stick a pretzel in your ass piece.

Offline mugsy

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Re: Ground share rears its ugly head again
« Reply #63 on: November 26, 2009, 01:03:20 pm »
Initially I am against the idea but if it is the best move for our club then so be it.

Well if the council are determined for this to happen then it should be a spectacular monument.  The city doesn't deserve a bog standard stadium.     
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Offline Olives

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Re: Ground share rears its ugly head again
« Reply #64 on: November 26, 2009, 01:06:43 pm »
Right there is where the ground share argument falls down. Everton have their heroes they want to laud, we have ours. What happens in a ground share, does one stand get called the Billy Lidell, the other the Cahill stand? Do we have two museums? Where do we place the memorials/statues? Who gets prominence? A statue to Moyes and behind it one for Shankly? Do we have Liverpool in massive letters on one side and Everton on the other? What about the Liverpool crest the players love to touch on their way to the pitch, do Everton get one of their own? Before or after Liverpool? What you end up with is either a generic bowl with no identifiable traits or some shit heap, bastard hybrid, like surgical grafting Jessica Alba on to Quasimodo.

these are relatively minor issues really, relatively easily solved.  two museums and club shops, one at each end of the ground, shankly statue and gates at the Liverpool end, dixie dean statue at the everton entrance.  as for the plaques and crests, I am sure it could be worked out, these are not make or break issues.   

Quote
And where will the stadium go?

Stanley Park, obviously.

Quote
What capacity? We want a 70,000 seater if we can to compete with united, but Everton won't want that, it will cost a fortune and look ridiculous.

this is why I am saying get the clubs together, consider it.  it may not work.  if Everton don't want to share a stadium because they'll never fill 70,000 against Stoke etc, then fine, f*** 'em, we'll build our own stadium and they can do whatever they like.  but if they are prepared to have empty seats against minor teams but still want to share a 70,000 stadium knowing they'll fill it against us, utd, arsenal, villa, etc then fine, great, full steam ahead.

of course, it does depend on whether Everton can finance the capital costs, but all I am suggesting is that we look at the possibility.  maybe they would stump up 33% of the initial costs and we own 66% of it and take a cut from their takings or whatever, that may be worked out.

I also wonder whether we'd be able to get some funding from the council / central government if they are as keen on a groundshare as it is suggested.  at the very least they could take care of the infrastructure costs (new train station etc)

Quote
I keep hearing nonsensical statements like 'it makes financial sense. The only people who say can't have ever been to a game, they must view it as a purely telly experience. Financially it makes sense to share a bed with your brother and live with your parents, but who the fuck wants to live like that?

firstly, all I said was that we should look at the possibility of whether it would make financial sense.
secondly, I did live with my parents into my twenties, that allowed me to save some money and I now own my own flat.
thirdly, if sharing a ground with Everton meant we were able to construct a team capable of winning the league and European cup, then I think it is worth it.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2009, 01:33:07 pm by Olives »
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Offline KingKolo

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Re: Ground share rears its ugly head again
« Reply #65 on: November 26, 2009, 01:07:27 pm »
you spelt "stupidity" wrong there.
Yeah, really fucking stupid you sarcastic twat.

Or maybe stupid is clinging onto a pipe dream and living in the past whilst in front of your eyes your club spirals further and further into debt and the squads gets thinner and thinner.

Obviously it's not ideal, but neither is Europa League football in an outdated stadium.

Offline xerxes1

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Re: Ground share rears its ugly head again
« Reply #66 on: November 26, 2009, 01:08:53 pm »
There are pros if you look objectively, but we as a city and as a support-base, lets say, do not like to look objectively. It sounds very elitist, but we like to think we are something special.

You hear other team's players talking about coming to Anfield, about what a special place it is, about what special fans it has. A unique atmosphere, some of them say. There are many who are concerned that a move away from Anfield will ruin that; will take away some of the soul of the club because we're no longer playing at that famous ground. It's always been a difficult acknowledgement, the fact that in order to progress we're going to have to leave Anfield behind. The thought has always been that we will try to take as much of the spirit and uniqueness with us wherever we go; to 'invoke the spirit of Anfield' wherever our new home may be.

Yes, a groundshare might make financial sense in some ways, but we're not objective fans. We're traditional, and as traditional fans a shared ground would remove a lot that made us special; that made us different. Our identity. Our home. 'Home' would not be our home any more, would it? Anfield (or whatever the new name will be) would not be Liverpool but Liverpool and Everton. Red AND Blue.

I hate to use a cliche but there are some things that money cannot buy and there are some things that should not be 'sold out' for anything.

That is a very fair post.

But this debate is about the future, not the past. Anfield IS very special to me, and it is to every Red. But factually, to other players? Portsmouth, bottom of the league have conceded the same number of goals at Fratton Park as we have at Anfield.

I look back on the 1990's Kings Dock proposals, and wonder. A shared 70,000 seater at litle cost, and no debt, ahead of Old Trafford, let alone The Emirates etc, a landmark world class stadium hosting the other sporting finals which OT now gets, and a European Cup Final grade venue, something which the whole of Liverpool could have been proud of. And that is gone, in the past. And Groundshare may not be the right option. But getting it right this time will determine our future for decades to come.
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Offline Olives

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Re: Ground share rears its ugly head again
« Reply #67 on: November 26, 2009, 01:10:53 pm »
groundshare? go stick a pretzel in your ass piece.

I concede the argument, your rhetorical mastery has overwhelmed me by sheer force of logic...
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Offline Not English but Scouse

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Re: Ground share rears its ugly head again
« Reply #68 on: November 26, 2009, 01:10:59 pm »
Sorry, but I think much of the soul of Anfield has slowly eroded over the years.

Will put on my tin hat, but Anfield is now souless compared to the 70s and 80s.
Atmosphere is awful, and the corporate/day trippers/tourists have taken over to a large extent.
For the big games we get a glimpse of what Anfield used to be like, but largely, for many games, you can hear the players shouting to each other.

Offline Liverbird 2010

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Re: Ground share rears its ugly head again
« Reply #69 on: November 26, 2009, 01:15:46 pm »
Sorry, but I think much of the soul of Anfield has slowly eroded over the years.

Will put on my tin hat, but Anfield is now souless compared to the 70s and 80s.
Atmosphere is awful, and the corporate/day trippers/tourists have taken over to a large extent.
For the big games we get a glimpse of what Anfield used to be like, but largely, for many games, you can hear the players shouting to each other.

It will be ten times worst in the new Liverton ground Whopperville central, 50 quid cheapest seat.
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Offline Olives

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Re: Ground share rears its ugly head again
« Reply #70 on: November 26, 2009, 01:15:57 pm »
You hear other team's players talking about coming to Anfield, about what a special place it is, about what special fans it has. A unique atmosphere, some of them say. There are many who are concerned that a move away from Anfield will ruin that; will take away some of the soul of the club because we're no longer playing at that famous ground. It's always been a difficult acknowledgement, the fact that in order to progress we're going to have to leave Anfield behind. The thought has always been that we will try to take as much of the spirit and uniqueness with us wherever we go; to 'invoke the spirit of Anfield' wherever our new home may be.

I agree with everything here.  I actually don't want to leave Anfield, but we will (eventually!).  we will take that spirit with us wherever we go - I don't see the difference between moving to a new stadium of our own and a new stadium that we happen to share with Everton... well, aside from the tens of millions of pounds saved...
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Offline Daranoza

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Re: Ground share rears its ugly head again
« Reply #71 on: November 26, 2009, 01:16:51 pm »
That is a very fair post.

But this debate is about the future, not the past. Anfield IS very special to me, and it is to every Red. But factually, to other players? Portsmouth, bottom of the league have conceded the same number of goals at Fratton Park as we have at Anfield.

I look back on the 1990's Kings Dock proposals, and wonder. A shared 70,000 seater at litle cost, and no debt, ahead of Old Trafford, let alone The Emirates etc, a landmark world class stadium hosting the other sporting finals which OT now gets, and a European Cup Final grade venue, something which the whole of Liverpool could have been proud of. And that is gone, in the past. And Groundshare may not be the right option. But getting it right this time will determine our future for decades to come.

The thing is, though, the future should be an improvement on the past. Yes, we need to move forward, but we do not need to move forward in unison with the other sold out and soulless clubs there are in this country. We are so often noted as ‘proud Liverpudlians’ – those who uphold their traditions and set aside from others because of it.

We need to move forward, yes, but in order to do so should we really sacrifice the one thing we have above the likes of your Chelseas and your Man Uniteds?

We have something that money cannot buy. We should be trying to move into the future with that history and tradition preserved, not wiped out because it was seen as a ‘necessary sacrifice’.
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Offline xerxes1

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Re: Ground share rears its ugly head again
« Reply #72 on: November 26, 2009, 01:17:16 pm »
I keep hearing nonsensical statements like 'it makes financial sense. The only people who say can't have ever been to a game, they must view it as a purely telly experience. Financially it makes sense to share a bed with your brother and live with your parents, but who the fuck wants to live like that?

Those that have to.

To describe "making financial sense" as nonsensical is desperate stuff. The reason why we havent got a new stadium and Malouda,Vidic, Barry, ramsey arent playing for us is all down to the financial stuff- you can't ignore it.
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Offline sinnermichael

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Re: Ground share rears its ugly head again
« Reply #73 on: November 26, 2009, 01:17:20 pm »
Thommo speaking sense on the matter:
.................................................................

Phil Thompson says it would not make logistical sense for Liverpool to share a stadium with Everton.

Everton chief executive Robert Elstone has suggested the club would consider sharing a ground with their city rivals after plans for their new stadium were rejected by the Government.

The Toffees had hoped to leave Goodison Park and build a new stadium and a shopping complex at Kirkby, but after their proposals were turned down the issue of sharing a ground with Liverpool has been raised.

Liverpool's bid to build a new stadium at Stanley Park has been hit by financial problems and it could potentially make economic sense for the two clubs to share one stadium in the city.

However, former Liverpool captain Thompson is adamant that the idea is a non-starter and says he is eagerly anticipating the development of Liverpool's new stadium.

"I'm very much against it," Thompson told Sky Sports News.

"Like a lot of Evertonians and Liverpudlians I'm very proud of what we've got.

"Yes, because of the finances at Everton and at Liverpool everybody will put this back on the agenda, but seriously, no, I can't see it happening.

"I don't want it to happen and I would like to see our new stadium, hopefully when it gets built in probably August 2018, and we'll look forward to it immensely."

Arrangement
Thompson, a resident of Kirkby, says it is right that Everton's plans were rejected and says he has looked into the idea of ground sharing.

Italian clubs Inter and AC Milan share the San Siro Stadium in Italy, but Thompson says that arrangement creates problems for the ground staff with so many matches being played on the same pitch.

He also says it would be difficult to create an infrastructure for two separate clubs within one stadium.

"You've got to look at it," he continued.

"I've spoken long and hard to people at Liverpool about the San Siro and it's not just about the football pitch itself which takes a hell of a battering.

"Come December the pitches are awful, they have to keep changing the football pitch.

"But it's also about how you structure the ground; the megastores, the offices and things like that. It doesn't actually work out when you sit down and you think about it.

"I just don't think it is relevant at this time. Let's sort out which way they both want to go.

"Everton now is not coming to my town in Kirkby, which I believe is the right decision.

"At Liverpool, I would like to think the finances will come up. We need a stadium probably more than what Everton do."

http://www.skysports.com/tv_show/story/0,20144,12975_5721859,00.html

Offline Daranoza

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Re: Ground share rears its ugly head again
« Reply #74 on: November 26, 2009, 01:18:35 pm »
I agree with everything here.  I actually don't want to leave Anfield, but we will (eventually!).  we will take that spirit with us wherever we go - I don't see the difference between moving to a new stadium of our own and a new stadium that we happen to share with Everton... well, aside from the tens of millions of pounds saved...

The identity is lost. It's no longer "Liverpool's ground" but "Liverpool and Everton's ground."
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Offline Rhino

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Re: Ground share rears its ugly head again
« Reply #75 on: November 26, 2009, 01:19:17 pm »
From the moment those Yanks moved in, my over riding feeling is that a ground share will eventually take place.

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Re: Ground share rears its ugly head again
« Reply #76 on: November 26, 2009, 01:22:19 pm »
This made me furious this morning - http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premier_league/liverpool/article6932657.ece?token=null&offset=12&page=2
Read the Patrick Barclay piece on the Owners and his views on a groundshare.
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Offline xerxes1

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Re: Ground share rears its ugly head again
« Reply #77 on: November 26, 2009, 01:22:41 pm »
Thommo speaking sense on the matter:

Well that's ok then.

A new stadium in ten years time, we have no idea how much it will cost, or whether it was the right thing to do for the financial future of the club. The torpor of the Moores/G&H era lives on.

 Thanks Phil!
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Re: Ground share rears its ugly head again
« Reply #78 on: November 26, 2009, 01:26:35 pm »
This made me furious this morning - http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premier_league/liverpool/article6932657.ece?token=null&offset=12&page=2
Read the Patrick Barclay piece on the Owners and his views on a groundshare.
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Me too. We have been let down by poor leadership for far too long. Should be compulsory reading for every Red.
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Re: Ground share rears its ugly head again
« Reply #79 on: November 26, 2009, 01:28:37 pm »
Just thought I'd share an extract from a typically excellent piece from Rushian.
Take a look at the date on the bottom of the page.

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In the last week we thought we’d poll the members of Red and White Kop to gauge the general feeling on sharing with our Blue cousins. We believe we have a high % of match goers visiting the site so the results should be fairly representative of the whole. The results were as follows:

Would you consider a ground share with Everton at a new stadium (total votes: 429)?

Yes if the costs were split 50:50 14.45 % (62)
Yes, if Liverpool were the major financial partner 4.20 % (18)
Yes, if Everton were the major financial partner 0.47 % (2)
No, we should build our own new stadium 43.82 % (188)
No, we should redevelop Anfield 33.33 % (143)
No, there's no need to move or expand 3.73 % (16)

The poll shows 81% against a ground share with a further 4% only agreeing if LFC were to effectively act as landlord to Everton. I think that’s pretty indicative of the general mood.


LFC’s original plans predict spending 80m on a stadium and paying back 125m over 25 years at 5m a year – this mortgage easily covered by an increase in revenue of 10-12m per annum. The need just isn’t there to save 25-30m (one summer’s spending) for the sake of the future integrity of the football club and stadium.

If economics are the major reason for sharing then why not go the whole nine yards and merge the two teams? Surely it makes economic sense to have one team in a city of 440,000 with no competition for the fanbase. Merseyside FC, with fans sat on purple seats, wearing purple Wanker Hats watching a team playing in purple kits and managed by Graham bloody Norton in a purple suit.

Whenever a ground share is mooted the proponents always refer to the examples of the Italian team that cohabit, principally Juventus and Torino, Lazio and Roma and the two Milanese giants. Conveniently the fact that in the first two examples the clubs concerned are desperate to break away from their current arrangements is quickly discarded. Juventus can’t wait to leave the Stadio delle Alpi and Lazio have plans to build their own stadium leaving Roma at the Stadio Olympico. “What about the two Milan clubs?” I hear you cry.

Their fans are very happy to have in the San Siro one of the World’s great stadia but I defy anyone to find a group of tifosi who’ll say they’re happy sharing. They’re not. If it was upto Milan fans they’d evict Inter tomorrow and vice versa, and they’ve been sharing since the 1920s (not 1990 as erroneously claimed by the Daily Post). One other thing links the above facilities – they were fully paid for by the local council and the teams went in as equal partners. Not even the most rabid Blue (apart from David Prentice) would suggest that Liverpool and Everton are in any sense financial equals in 2003.

No longer would the stadium be ours. Every other week you seat would be sat on by an Evertonian or an away fan. It wouldn’t be OUR tribal home where we invited both opposition teams and fans to challenge us. Instead it’d become a shared community facility. All well and good if you believe football is just another piece of popcorn entertainment but an anathema to those of us who continue to believe it is far more important than that.

Any semblance of a Kop would also cease to exist – the ground would have to be a symmetrical tub as each club would be “designated” a stand behind one goal as their home end. And there’s no chance that one would be allowed to be bigger than the other. The original plan for Stanley Park of a towering slope of humanity coursing with Red passion at one end replicating the old Kop would be replaced by just another set of seats mirroring the opposite end of the stadium. The original idea of a “new Kop” that assuaged many fans into believing in the move across Anfield Road would be cast away as unworkable. The names of Anfield and the Kop would become mere entries in the index of a history book.

And at the shared stadium itself what would else would we have? For every Shankly statue there’d have to be one of Harry Catterick. If Dixie Dean was relocated we’d demand one of Billy Liddell. The Paisley Gateway would be counterbalanced by a Howard Kendall Boulevard. If we moved our Great Eastern flagpole would they want St. Domingo’s transferred brick by brick?

More importantly what would happen to the Hillsborough memorial? Hillsborough defines Liverpool Football Club more than any collection of shiny cups or great players. A separation of the stadium and memorial is unthinkable.

We don’t want it, we don’t need it, and it’s wrong for Liverpool Football Club on every level. We won’t as fans be bounced into it. A ground share isn’t and never will be the answer.

To all those concerned listen hard, we don’t want YOUR ground share.

© RAWK 2003

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=17806.msg252514#msg252514
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