Author Topic: The Horse Racing thread  (Read 253727 times)

Offline Gerry Attrick

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Re: The Horse Racing thread
« Reply #5080 on: November 9, 2022, 01:30:02 pm »
I don’t agree at all there EF. After 6 furlongs he was right on pace to go close in the sprint, after a mile he was about 4 lengths quicker than Cody’s Wish who won the mile and at the end he was wrapped up. I think it was a breathtaking performance. I don’t see how any other horse would’ve been able to do what he did there, certainly not since Frankel. Even if it was around a standard time to be able to sit on a pace that hard and still not fall in a hole is mind boggling. A caveat for me should one exist is we’ve only seen him over 2 years. That’s a big disappointment but breeding is everything now.

My top 5 on the flat would be Frankel, Flightline, Sea The Stars, Secretariat and probably Sea Bird. I’ve not seen a couple of those because I’m not old, but I think Secretariat and Sea Bird are unanimous.
« Last Edit: November 9, 2022, 01:35:23 pm by Gerry Attrick »

Offline El_Frank

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Re: The Horse Racing thread
« Reply #5081 on: November 9, 2022, 07:34:42 pm »
That's fair enough, and this is where it gets very subjective. Judging against other horses running other races to judge their sectionals can say one thing and it can say another. Is a good horse one that runs great sectionals? Or runs flat out for as long as it can? Some horses like to get cover and come late and therefore wouldn't be topping any sectionals or comparisons but would win more often than not, let's use an American horse as an example here in Zenyatta as doing such. Always a hold up horse but won every race apart from her last one - 19 out 20. Or Winx over in Australia who had a ludicrous record. I love a late-running, strong-finishing horse personally, but I also appreciate the front-running sorts like Reference Point or Dubai Millennium as well as those that seemed to cruise like your Frankels/Baaeeds/Flightlines. But winning big is just one way to win a race and some horses like to stretch out and lead and some don't, but it seems the ratings guys and Joe public get more turned on by the ones that just want to sprint to the end. It looks sexier I guess, like Frankel's Guineas win. Surely the measure of merit should be in how many times they win and the manner and significance of their wins, rather than by how much they win by.
Sure, Flightline had things easy in his career, too easy for him anyway, but much like Frankel (who did) he didn't get bigger tests to really see what he was made of, and we won't get those now. For me there are the established proven greats and then Flightline would sit in the second tier as being one of those that might well have gone on to be the best of all time, but we never got to see if that could've been the case or not because only six races and only four G1 races (only one of which was 'a big one') whilst racing up to 4 years of age should've given more. But alas, that is racing.


Offline Gerry Attrick

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Re: The Horse Racing thread
« Reply #5082 on: November 11, 2022, 03:47:09 pm »
I think we have to consider that we’ve seen a smart one at Cheltenham today. Hermes Allen looks really promising. Hubrisko, a Ricci horse for Mullins ran to a reasonable level in a Grade 3 last time and Hermes Allen absolutely smashed him today. Not saying to get too carried away but I wouldn’t want to be laying him in any of our Grade 1s at least. Let’s see how many better ones the Irish have.

Offline twootuurtlediivvaas

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Re: The Horse Racing thread
« Reply #5083 on: November 12, 2022, 05:18:28 pm »
At Cheltenham tomorrow, anyone got a surefire winner or two, I’m struggling!

I know last time I said that things worked out far better than expected but not expecting the same joy this time

Edit: looks like I’ll be waiting till the last for a decent bet. John McConnell had a good bumper here last month and could be a similar story with this Notnowned
« Last Edit: November 12, 2022, 09:11:40 pm by duvva »
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Offline twootuurtlediivvaas

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Re: The Horse Racing thread
« Reply #5084 on: November 12, 2022, 08:17:18 pm »
Just looked at the Navan card tomorrow. Miles better than Cheltenham in terms of the calibre of horses on display.
Bob Olinger back over hurdles with questions to answer after the end of last season. Tempted by Flooring Porter at the prices, but he’s not always straight forward and tends to save his best for Cheltenham

Also good to see Ferny Hollow back, if they can keep him in one piece makes the two mile division even more interesting
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Offline Gerry Attrick

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Re: The Horse Racing thread
« Reply #5085 on: November 13, 2022, 05:54:46 am »
Ferny Hollow is really exciting but the horses he beat in 2 runs are a bit… erratic. They have bits and pieces of really smart form; Gentleman De Mee won at Aintree but also, they have looked really ordinary in others. I’m happy to let him win. Really looking forward to seeing Bob Olinger and Flooring Porter but I reckon Gavin Cromwell will have left some to work with. Cheltenham and work backwards for a horse like that. I do enjoy watching him though, he’s a wild horse in the best way. Elliott’s horse in the bumper looks interesting. Won a PTP by 15 lengths and Bective Stud paid decent dough for him.

Offline twootuurtlediivvaas

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Re: The Horse Racing thread
« Reply #5086 on: November 13, 2022, 08:17:30 am »
I think we might be looking at a 3 time Cheltenham Festival winner had Ferny Hollow remained sound, but all ifs and buts. Today should be a decent test and show if the ability remains.
Yep just read that there working back from Cheltenham with FP so will leave that alone.

Along with Notnowned, I’ve come up with Does He Know and Iberico Lord for todays Cheltenham adventure. Not exactly my most confident shouts. Bailey doesn’t seem overly confident and I’d like see the Henderson horse backed to show stable confidence. Might also take a punt on Sizing Pottsie to upset Nube Negra

Few non runners presumably due to the Good ground. Sizing Pottsie has gone so the Shloer Chase looks a bit of a non event now.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2022, 09:04:44 am by duvva »
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Offline twootuurtlediivvaas

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Re: The Horse Racing thread
« Reply #5087 on: November 13, 2022, 02:08:48 pm »
Think Bob’s done. Cruised up found nothing
“ When I see the Bill Shankly statue, I look at the sentiment on the base. It says: 'He made the people happy’. Well now the modern Liverpool is making the fans and the city happy. And that makes me so proud." - Gerard Houllier

Offline twootuurtlediivvaas

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Re: The Horse Racing thread
« Reply #5088 on: November 13, 2022, 02:30:29 pm »
Glad I let Bailey put me off having a bet in that. What a mug I am
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Offline Shankly!Shankly!

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Re: The Horse Racing thread
« Reply #5089 on: November 13, 2022, 11:04:02 pm »
Think Bob’s done. Cruised up found nothing

Traveled a treat and hit 1.02 on Betfair... Early season fitness or real concern? Galopin had bob beat by half the run until the fall. Worrying
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Offline twootuurtlediivvaas

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Re: The Horse Racing thread
« Reply #5090 on: November 16, 2022, 08:41:59 am »
Jonbon’s Debut over fences today, decent rival in Monmiral so should be a good test
“ When I see the Bill Shankly statue, I look at the sentiment on the base. It says: 'He made the people happy’. Well now the modern Liverpool is making the fans and the city happy. And that makes me so proud." - Gerard Houllier

Offline twootuurtlediivvaas

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Re: The Horse Racing thread
« Reply #5091 on: November 19, 2022, 02:08:51 pm »
Not racings finest day. Big horses all pulled out. Match races and a walkover at Ascot
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Offline Gerry Attrick

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Re: The Horse Racing thread
« Reply #5092 on: November 19, 2022, 02:12:17 pm »
Horse racing is in perpetual decline. Nobody seems to have a clue how to fix it.

What we saw there is the difference between David Maxwell and a professional pilot.

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Re: The Horse Racing thread
« Reply #5093 on: November 19, 2022, 02:58:04 pm »
Paul Nicholls with some thinly veiled snipes at Henderson there.

Offline Gerry Attrick

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Re: The Horse Racing thread
« Reply #5094 on: November 19, 2022, 03:04:12 pm »
Paul Nicholls with some thinly veiled snipes at Henderson there.

Bit hypocritical too. He wouldn’t even dare Bravemansgame at Cheltenham.

Offline Gerry Attrick

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Re: The Horse Racing thread
« Reply #5095 on: November 19, 2022, 03:07:34 pm »
A Plus Tard run a shocker. He never looked like winning that race from the moment the tape went up.

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Re: The Horse Racing thread
« Reply #5096 on: November 19, 2022, 04:55:00 pm »
Bit hypocritical too. He wouldn’t even dare Bravemansgame at Cheltenham.

It is annoying because if the ground comes up quick at Cheltenham (or as quick as they'll allow it to be), Henderson will still run Constitution Hill or any other horse unless it is absolutely against what they want ground wise.

The racing today has been somewhat shambolic.

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Re: The Horse Racing thread
« Reply #5097 on: November 19, 2022, 05:13:31 pm »
It is annoying because if the ground comes up quick at Cheltenham (or as quick as they'll allow it to be), Henderson will still run Constitution Hill or any other horse unless it is absolutely against what they want ground wise.

The racing today has been somewhat shambolic.

All trainers have become scared of running and risking a horse now. Fast, bottomless, good to soft; soft in places. All trainers just find a way to dodge a battle. One of the reasons the sport is dying on its arse. Nicholls is as guilty as the rest of them on occasions.

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Re: The Horse Racing thread
« Reply #5098 on: November 19, 2022, 06:29:05 pm »
All trainers have become scared of running and risking a horse now. Fast, bottomless, good to soft; soft in places. All trainers just find a way to dodge a battle. One of the reasons the sport is dying on its arse. Nicholls is as guilty as the rest of them on occasions.

Yeah, I would understand if perhaps it was rattling quick, or if a horse needed quicker ground and it was a bog but this just seemed stupid throughout. There clearly was enough juice in the ground, 41mm of rain in the past week or so.

The lure of jumps racing is that the horses tend to have longer careers, so the public and punters build up affection with particular horses and trainers over time. When trainers - and top trainers at that - refuse to race the best horses and the public get stuffed it does quite a bit of damage to the image of racing.

Offline twootuurtlediivvaas

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Re: The Horse Racing thread
« Reply #5099 on: November 19, 2022, 06:49:24 pm »
A Plus Tard run a shocker. He never looked like winning that race from the moment the tape went up.
Wonder if there’s an issue at Henry’s after that and Bob going out like a light last week.
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Offline twootuurtlediivvaas

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Re: The Horse Racing thread
« Reply #5100 on: November 19, 2022, 06:54:48 pm »
A real shoot yourself in the foot moment for racing today on the main ITV channel. Nicholls loves to take digs at others when he’s winning. Always been that way.

If the small fields weren't bad enough all the big guns outside of A Plus Tard were pulled out on ground that surely wasn’t that firm. After the hurdles being dolled off due to the low sun last week at Cheltenham (on the Sunday at least) they just aren’t producing top quality action at the moment. Ireland streets ahead, no wonder they have all the best horses at the moment
« Last Edit: November 20, 2022, 11:47:07 am by duvva »
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Offline twootuurtlediivvaas

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Re: The Horse Racing thread
« Reply #5101 on: November 25, 2022, 03:14:50 pm »
Great race between two old boys Paisley Park and Champ there. Think Champs hurdling was the difference, just slicker over the hurdles bar perhaps the last
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Re: The Horse Racing thread
« Reply #5102 on: November 25, 2022, 11:36:27 pm »
Great race between two old boys Paisley Park and Champ there. Think Champs hurdling was the difference, just slicker over the hurdles bar perhaps the last

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Offline twootuurtlediivvaas

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Re: The Horse Racing thread
« Reply #5103 on: November 26, 2022, 07:48:14 am »
Looks like Constitution Hill will finally step into open company today. Excited to see what he can do.

LHomme Presse giving lumps of weight away will be interesting as well. Decent Novice Chase to start Gowran Parks card too

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Offline Gerry Attrick

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Re: The Horse Racing thread
« Reply #5104 on: November 26, 2022, 09:18:32 am »
Reasonable test first up for Constitution Hill. Giving 7lb to Epatante at a track she handles well is a good challenge. Think he’ll need to run to mid 160s to win. I think 2/7 is too skinny personally. That’s not to say he won’t win, rather I think it’s not good value against a proven grade 1 performer in his first assignment out of novice company.

Offline twootuurtlediivvaas

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Re: The Horse Racing thread
« Reply #5105 on: November 26, 2022, 02:16:13 pm »
That’s insane. Frankel over hurdles
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Offline Gerry Attrick

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Re: The Horse Racing thread
« Reply #5106 on: November 26, 2022, 02:16:32 pm »
Wow. You’d have to say that Honeysuckle would need to find 7lb to beat him. He’s way better than anything she’s ever looked at.

Offline twootuurtlediivvaas

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Re: The Horse Racing thread
« Reply #5107 on: November 26, 2022, 03:33:28 pm »
Giving away a lot of weight there, one sketchy jump but other than that really nice performance from L’Homme Presse
“ When I see the Bill Shankly statue, I look at the sentiment on the base. It says: 'He made the people happy’. Well now the modern Liverpool is making the fans and the city happy. And that makes me so proud." - Gerard Houllier