Author Topic: e-scooters  (Read 31389 times)

Offline rob1966

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Re: e-scooters
« Reply #280 on: September 19, 2021, 12:54:26 pm »
Brother has rented one today to accompany his missus on a 20 mile run as she prepares for the London Marathon. What the fuck happened to cycling alongside them?

He's called me a miserable fucker when I said they should be banned.
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Offline meady1981

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Re: e-scooters
« Reply #281 on: September 19, 2021, 05:10:41 pm »
I’d like to see life imprisonment for people using them on pavements. Harsh but fair. No parole.

Offline CraigDS

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Re: e-scooters
« Reply #282 on: September 19, 2021, 05:17:08 pm »
I’d like to see life imprisonment for people using them on pavements. Harsh but fair. No parole.

If we chopped off their fingers then they wouldn't be able to use them again. Seems fair imo.

Offline meady1981

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Re: e-scooters
« Reply #283 on: September 19, 2021, 05:21:54 pm »
If we chopped off their fingers then they wouldn't be able to use them again. Seems fair imo.

Might as well do their feet as well to be on the safe side.

Offline So… Howard Philips

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Re: e-scooters
« Reply #284 on: September 19, 2021, 05:29:09 pm »
Might as well do their feet as well to be on the safe side.

And poke their eyes out, just to be 100% certain.

Offline liversaint

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Re: e-scooters
« Reply #285 on: September 19, 2021, 08:27:32 pm »


He's called me a miserable fucker when I said they should be banned.

One of those occasions when you were both right😉😁
You say Honey? I say Fuck off.

You dont win friends with Salad

There is another option. Mr Ferguson organises the fixtures in his office and sends it to us and everyone will know and cannot complain. That is simple.

Offline AlphaDelta

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Re: e-scooters
« Reply #286 on: September 20, 2021, 08:07:15 am »
On my way to work this morning, tired and hungover after a weekend away, in the back of a taxi on Kensington and some fookin beatnik on one swerved around a pothole into our path causing the driver to slam on. 
Faceplanting a musty smelling headrest of a Mondeo at 7am on Monday morning is not the best start to the week (should have had my seatbelt on to be fair), but my strangulated "yer fooookin twat!" made me feel better.

Ban then. Now.
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Offline rob1966

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Re: e-scooters
« Reply #287 on: September 20, 2021, 08:46:12 am »
One of those occasions when you were both right😉😁

;D
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Re: e-scooters
« Reply #288 on: September 20, 2021, 08:53:14 am »
On my way to work this morning, tired and hungover after a weekend away, in the back of a taxi on Kensington and some fookin beatnik on one swerved around a pothole into our path causing the driver to slam on. 
Faceplanting a musty smelling headrest of a Mondeo at 7am on Monday morning is not the best start to the week (should have had my seatbelt on to be fair), but my strangulated "yer fooookin twat!" made me feel better.

Ban then. Now.

Maybe the taxi driver should've kept more distance and observed the road better, then he would have anticipated the scooter going around the pothole. Sorry for your harsh waking up, but that sounds like the driver's fault.
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Offline Indomitable_Carp

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Re: e-scooters
« Reply #289 on: September 20, 2021, 10:14:57 am »
Maybe the taxi driver should've kept more distance and observed the road better, then he would have anticipated the scooter going around the pothole. Sorry for your harsh waking up, but that sounds like the driver's fault.

Yeah that´s my thinking as well. Not much fun being tailgated by a tonne of fast moving steel when you are riding a bike (or this case a scooter) down a pothole infested road


Offline ChaChaMooMoo

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Re: e-scooters
« Reply #290 on: September 21, 2021, 01:36:49 pm »
How did you hit the headrest? Werent you wearing any seatbelt?

Offline rob1966

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Re: e-scooters
« Reply #291 on: September 21, 2021, 02:37:54 pm »
Maybe the taxi driver should've kept more distance and observed the road better, then he would have anticipated the scooter going around the pothole. Sorry for your harsh waking up, but that sounds like the driver's fault.

They're both at fault, although I'd put 75% on the twat on the scooter. When you ride a 2 wheeled vehicle on the road you HAVE to read the road a lot lot better than a car driver, you need to look for potholes, wet leaves, manhole covers, overbanding, the soft shite won't have been looking ahead and has swerved without looking.

The taxi driver did need to drive more defensively, but these things are just another fucking hazard added to roads that are tough enough as it is.

How did you hit the headrest? Werent you wearing any seatbelt?

He said he wasn't in his post.
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Offline ChaChaMooMoo

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Re: e-scooters
« Reply #292 on: September 21, 2021, 02:52:22 pm »
Oh yes Rob. I didn't read it. I mean, I did read it but my brain didn't process it. Such a bonehead I am.

If the scooter swerved a pothole, I take it that he was driving on the road? If thats the case, the taxi driver should've been cautious enough to "anticipate" the driving behaviour of a scooter. Not simply because he is a car, but also because he is the one driving behind and has full view of the road and its users ahead. Thats part of defensive driving.  But some taxi drivers think its their constitutional right to drive as they please especially in areas where they are no cameras or coppers. I am sure all of us have seen enough examples of such rash and erratic driving. I think the taxi driver should've been more defensive and should have anticipated the movement here.

If the scooter was on a pavement and then swerved onto the road to avoid a pothole, then no mistake he is at fault. No doubt about it. No questions.

Offline rob1966

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Re: e-scooters
« Reply #293 on: September 21, 2021, 04:04:41 pm »
Oh yes Rob. I didn't read it. I mean, I did read it but my brain didn't process it. Such a bonehead I am.

If the scooter swerved a pothole, I take it that he was driving on the road? If thats the case, the taxi driver should've been cautious enough to "anticipate" the driving behaviour of a scooter. Not simply because he is a car, but also because he is the one driving behind and has full view of the road and its users ahead. Thats part of defensive driving.  But some taxi drivers think its their constitutional right to drive as they please especially in areas where they are no cameras or coppers. I am sure all of us have seen enough examples of such rash and erratic driving. I think the taxi driver should've been more defensive and should have anticipated the movement here.

If the scooter was on a pavement and then swerved onto the road to avoid a pothole, then no mistake he is at fault. No doubt about it. No questions.

The scooter rider will have been on the road, likely on an illegal scooter.

You can't accuse the driver of not being defensive and then absolve the scooter rider of blame, he should be defensive riding too, he should be aware of traffic around him, he should be reading the road, he should be checking over his shoulder constantly to see if there are any vehicles so he knows how to react if something goes wrong. I doubt the did any of this. The fucking things should be banned until we have an infrastructure where fucking idiots can ride them without causing issues for other road users and pedestrians.
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Offline ChaChaMooMoo

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Re: e-scooters
« Reply #294 on: September 22, 2021, 07:49:53 am »
The scooter rider will have been on the road, likely on an illegal scooter.

You can't accuse the driver of not being defensive and then absolve the scooter rider of blame, he should be defensive riding too, he should be aware of traffic around him, he should be reading the road, he should be checking over his shoulder constantly to see if there are any vehicles so he knows how to react if something goes wrong. I doubt the did any of this. The fucking things should be banned until we have an infrastructure where fucking idiots can ride them without causing issues for other road users and pedestrians.

I get where you are coming from Rob. The scooter doesn't make its case very strongly.

As a defensive driver myself, I assume that the other users are idiots and have no concept of space, discipline and awareness. I assume that the driver in the front is going to brake or the pedestrian is going to jay walk or the bicyclist is going to wee into my path. Drives my wife nuts when I do it. But I do it because I have a full view of the road in the front. If something happens and I am gonna have to be ready to brake hard and possibly come to a stop. If someone hits me from behind, nobody is going to blame me but the vehicle that hits me from behind because he should've been better prepared by leaving sufficient gap between himself and me.

I get it that some scooter drivers give the rest of us bad names but its not always the scooters fault to be fair. I rent a fair bit of scooters myself and its hard predicting the topography of the road I use. Some street stones look small but feel like boulders under the small tire. In that situation, I have to brake hard, much to the annoyance of other road users. But that's how it is. I cant help it.

As for the infrastructure, they already exist. What doesn't exist is proper education, awareness and discipline needed to drive these amazing machines. They are really wonderful mobility solutions IF used properly. Sadly some knobs like the one mentioned above, give it a bad name.

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Re: e-scooters
« Reply #295 on: September 22, 2021, 08:41:48 pm »
As Rob has said to ride a two wheeler on the road you have to be switched on to fuck. A stationary car doing a u turn or a car door opening are the two things Iam switched onto most and expecting . Potholes are dangerous but let's all honest here the potholes should not be there in the first place .
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Offline rob1966

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Re: e-scooters
« Reply #296 on: September 22, 2021, 08:44:06 pm »
As Rob has said to ride a two wheeler on the road you have to be switched on to fuck. A stationary car doing a u turn or a car door opening are the two things Iam switched onto most and expecting . Potholes are dangerous but let's all honest here the potholes should not be there in the first place .

And on a scooter they should be able to bunny hop them without swerving
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Re: e-scooters
« Reply #297 on: September 23, 2021, 12:42:15 pm »
Maybe the taxi driver should've kept more distance and observed the road better, then he would have anticipated the scooter going around the pothole. Sorry for your harsh waking up, but that sounds like the driver's fault.


Maybe the taxi driver was justifiably travelling faster than the scooter and beginning a manoeuvre to overtake, then the scooter rider swerved into his path. If you're a car/van/lorry driver doing 30mph and looking to overtake a slow-moving (say 10-15mph) scooter or cyclist, you're focusing on the wider road and other vehicles, not whether there's a pothole near the kerb, that's likely to be obscured anyway by the scooter rider/cyclist.

A Tory, a worker and an immigrant are sat round a table. There's a plate of 10 biscuits in the middle. The Tory takes 9 then turns to the worker and says "that immigrant is trying to steal your biscuit"

Offline rob1966

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Re: e-scooters
« Reply #298 on: September 23, 2021, 09:28:21 pm »

Maybe the taxi driver was justifiably travelling faster than the scooter and beginning a manoeuvre to overtake, then the scooter rider swerved into his path. If you're a car/van/lorry driver doing 30mph and looking to overtake a slow-moving (say 10-15mph) scooter or cyclist, you're focusing on the wider road and other vehicles, not whether there's a pothole near the kerb, that's likely to be obscured anyway by the scooter rider/cyclist.



Look at these c*nts, they don't even understand they are in the wrong  :wanker :wanker  :wanker

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/jNixS4Fco74" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/jNixS4Fco74</a>
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Re: e-scooters
« Reply #299 on: September 23, 2021, 11:38:42 pm »
Look at these c*nts, they don't even understand they are in the wrong  :wanker :wanker  :wanker

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/jNixS4Fco74" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/jNixS4Fco74</a>
Seen that one before Rob; they're a bunch of arseholes  :no
If your moral compass is Piers Moron then I ask you to think whether someone who oversaw illegal phone hacking and published fake pictures depicting War Crimes is an appropriate person to look up to. In fact, I'd suggest you're a bit of a c*nt.

Offline ianburns252

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Re: e-scooters
« Reply #300 on: September 24, 2021, 07:33:32 am »
Look at these c*nts, they don't even understand they are in the wrong  :wanker :wanker  :wanker

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/jNixS4Fco74" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/jNixS4Fco74</a>

Might just be me but by the time the bike is hit by the guy the pack has been out in front of the lorry sufficiently that the driver would have seen them and known that they weren't turning, right?

There is no doubt that the people on those bikes started in the wrong lane and the lorry driver is right about passing on the outside, but surely once those bikes pull off and move as a group in front of him he should have been aware of them if he wasn't before?

Doesn't forgive the cyclists for not following the rules of the road but once that error is made and those bikes pull ahead you'd notice them.

Cyclists do themselves no favours unfortunately with running red lights and some very erratic riding (especially from delivery riders) but I know from riding around London that many cars will force you as far left as they think they can get away with and often treat you like you shouldn't be on the road. Neither side exactly covers themselves in glory




Offline Indomitable_Carp

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Re: e-scooters
« Reply #301 on: September 24, 2021, 07:44:26 am »
^^Agreed with that. Cyclists clearly in the wrong by not following the rules of the road. But then so too is the HGV driver who has nearly crushed someone to death to try and prove a point - when it was quite clear that cyclists were attempting to pass, regardless of if they were following the laws or not.

All of this stuff just feeds this bullshit drivers VS cyclists "war" narrative - that doesn´t really seem to exist in other countries. Unecessary aggro left right and centre simply trying to get from A to B. The UK is light years behind in terms of attitudes.

The most important take away from that video for me, and all other videos of that nature, is that cyclists and lorries should not have to be sharing the same road at all.

Offline rob1966

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Re: e-scooters
« Reply #302 on: September 24, 2021, 08:13:58 am »
Might just be me but by the time the bike is hit by the guy the pack has been out in front of the lorry sufficiently that the driver would have seen them and known that they weren't turning, right?

He's actually now in a blindspot so can't be seen. Search for videos of cars getting pushed down the road by HGVs to get and idea of how big the blindspot can be.

^^Agreed with that. Cyclists clearly in the wrong by not following the rules of the road. But then so too is the HGV driver who has nearly crushed someone to death to try and prove a point - when it was quite clear that cyclists were attempting to pass, regardless of if they were following the laws or not.

All of this stuff just feeds this bullshit drivers VS cyclists "war" narrative - that doesn´t really seem to exist in other countries. Unecessary aggro left right and centre simply trying to get from A to B. The UK is light years behind in terms of attitudes.

The most important take away from that video for me, and all other videos of that nature, is that cyclists and lorries should not have to be sharing the same road at all.

He's not trying to prove a point, he's just pulling away from the lights. What people don't appreciate is HGV's are very fast when empty so the acceleration will have taken them by surprise, also people think because of where he is he can be seen, the opposite is true, the one he clips is riding right in his blind spot, he's right in the front corner so he can't be seen in the kerb mirror (the one on the nearside door that looks down, the front blindspot mirror (the one on the windscreen) won't pick him up either, the cameras we use on ours wouldn't have picked him up either and because of the way they are riding, he'll be watching them lot in front in case one of them swerves across him, he's also going to be checking his mirrors for all the ones alongside the trailer, then the woman riding right next to him and also checking the cars on this right, his head will have been on a swivel. Its a bunch of cyclists being stupid c*nts that caused this, far too many think they can act like this and blame someone else, they need to realise 44t will splatter them.

He's done nothing wrong, its 100% on the idiot on the bike, who is lucky he isn't dead.
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Offline Indomitable_Carp

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Re: e-scooters
« Reply #303 on: September 24, 2021, 08:44:47 am »
Don´t get me wrong, I wouldn´t be attempting that manouver. Near on suicidal, and it was clear that the HGV was speeding up not slowing down so its crazy that the cyclist just continued on his merry way.

But it is also clear that the HGV driver has seen the big group of cyclists to his left at the lights, knew they were there in that lane to get in front, and rather then waiting for them to pass before accelerating off, thought he would try and beat them to it even knowing it might get someone crushed to death (regardless of the who would technically be at "fault" in that instance). HGV driving is a shit job, and a stressful one, and no one envys trying to drive an articulated lorry through Central London.

Regardless, common sense would dictate anyone looking at that scene knows the cyclists are going to move forward and not turn left. You can also tell by the drivers reaction that he was proving a point and probably didn´t fancy being stuck behind a load of cyclists. Same as the nob head cyclist with the camera trying to prove a point despite clearly attempting a stupid manouver.

No one comes out of it in glory. Maybe the driver could have been "100%" in the right. Maybe that would have later helped him get to sleep at night having crushed someone to death - also knowing he could have waited an extra 5 seconds before pulling off at the lights
« Last Edit: September 24, 2021, 08:47:02 am by Indomitable_Carp »

Offline Indomitable_Carp

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Re: e-scooters
« Reply #304 on: September 24, 2021, 08:50:14 am »
I guess my point is this whole "100% cyclists fault" - "no wait its the HGV drivers fault" just contributes to this whole toxic shitshow. Throw e-scooters into the mix and we have the whole twitter frenzy covered from all angles.

At the end of the day everyone is just trying to get from A to B

Offline ChaChaMooMoo

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Re: e-scooters
« Reply #305 on: September 24, 2021, 09:05:58 am »
WOW thats scary. Why is that cyclist driving on roads without clear marking? Or if he is allowed to bike on that road, what is the lorry doing there? I dont know what the answers are but it seems to me that the cyclist was driving there because he thought he was allowed to, and the lorry nearly crushed him to death because he was in his blind spot.

Blind spot detection was my project work at master studies. We developed sensors that helped with VRU detection in blind spot within a speed limit of 30 kmph. We were only 88% effective. It still had difficulties detecting animals and smaller folding bikes. Speaking about blind spots...



But to talk about the video again, that junction and road marking marking seems very questionable at best and unplanned at worst. Is it how it is? Didnt any road planner see that junction and think maybe its not a good idea to allow a cyclist and lorry on the same road without a clear demarkation?

As I said before, bicycles, e-scooters and the likes of mobility devices that share the roads are very helpful to get around. But it requires knowledge, experience, awareness, education, discipline and common sense. And infrastructure designed to accommodate them.

Offline ianburns252

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Re: e-scooters
« Reply #306 on: September 24, 2021, 09:09:34 am »
He's actually now in a blindspot so can't be seen. Search for videos of cars getting pushed down the road by HGVs to get and idea of how big the blindspot can be.

He's not trying to prove a point, he's just pulling away from the lights. What people don't appreciate is HGV's are very fast when empty so the acceleration will have taken them by surprise, also people think because of where he is he can be seen, the opposite is true, the one he clips is riding right in his blind spot, he's right in the front corner so he can't be seen in the kerb mirror (the one on the nearside door that looks down, the front blindspot mirror (the one on the windscreen) won't pick him up either, the cameras we use on ours wouldn't have picked him up either and because of the way they are riding, he'll be watching them lot in front in case one of them swerves across him, he's also going to be checking his mirrors for all the ones alongside the trailer, then the woman riding right next to him and also checking the cars on this right, his head will have been on a swivel. Its a bunch of cyclists being stupid c*nts that caused this, far too many think they can act like this and blame someone else, they need to realise 44t will splatter them.

He's done nothing wrong, its 100% on the idiot on the bike, who is lucky he isn't dead.

I'll hold my hands up to that - I didn't realise there was a frontal blindspot.

Agree that the cyclist who gets hit has dropped into a blind spot and not as if the driver will count how many are there or anything daft.

Just with how much those lanes narrow I'd be more cautious however as you well point out there are 73 other things the driver will have been focused on and the cyclist who gets hit should have dropped back and let the HGV pass once it began to overtake him.

Carp makes a fair point that there is too much grief between drivers and cyclists. At times makes the left vs a bit further left bullshit seem tame!

Taxis and delivery cyclists though get no sympathy from me. Both make themselves look like tits - there's there's reason you check your life insurance policy before jumping in a Delta taxi

Offline rob1966

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Re: e-scooters
« Reply #307 on: September 24, 2021, 07:32:54 pm »
^

This photo was taken inside a Scania cab, I'd leaned across out of the seat and zoomed it a bit. The cab is 2.6m wide, so ita bout 2.2 m from your head to the window post and the the bottom of the window is about 8ft from the ground. The white cab is about 12ft away and as you can see I can't see the wheels and they are about 3ft tall. You can see all the mirrors we use and under the height indicator, where its says 1 under the 13 is the proximity sensor. That should give you a pretty good idea about what a truck driver can and cannot see. Cars disappear when they get in your front left corner.



When you watch the video, you can see the driver backs off to slot in behind the rider in the black, so he is aware of them and is driving to suit. This shot shows that he can see the one wearing the camera in his mirrors. He can't see the woman in the pink gloves in his mirrors, he may or may not be able to see the very top of her helmet, the fella in red is in and out of the blindspot. You can see from his position he is trying to race the truck to the lane



I agree there is a lack of respect between road users, but when you see people on bikes pulling this kind of shit, is it any surprise? I'm sick to death of seeing uninsured riders going through red lights, riding like twats and causing at times thousands of pounds of damage when they cause a crash.

And to really drive it home

« Last Edit: September 24, 2021, 07:39:16 pm by rob1966 »
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Re: e-scooters
« Reply #308 on: September 24, 2021, 07:35:53 pm »
WOW thats scary. Why is that cyclist driving on roads without clear marking? Or if he is allowed to bike on that road, what is the lorry doing there? I dont know what the answers are but it seems to me that the cyclist was driving there because he thought he was allowed to, and the lorry nearly crushed him to death because he was in his blind spot.

Blind spot detection was my project work at master studies. We developed sensors that helped with VRU detection in blind spot within a speed limit of 30 kmph. We were only 88% effective. It still had difficulties detecting animals and smaller folding bikes. Speaking about blind spots...



But to talk about the video again, that junction and road marking marking seems very questionable at best and unplanned at worst. Is it how it is? Didnt any road planner see that junction and think maybe its not a good idea to allow a cyclist and lorry on the same road without a clear demarkation?

As I said before, bicycles, e-scooters and the likes of mobility devices that share the roads are very helpful to get around. But it requires knowledge, experience, awareness, education, discipline and common sense. And infrastructure designed to accommodate them.

Mate, the roads are standard UK roads, they are all like that. When you watch the video, you will see an arrow painted on the road that shows that the lane is for left turn ONLY, its saying DO NOT go straight on. The HGV is in the correct lane to go straight ahead and his lane becomes the left lane on the other side of the junction. Everyone of those cyclists broke a rule that would get a driver 3pts and a fine.
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Re: e-scooters
« Reply #309 on: September 24, 2021, 10:52:35 pm »
^

This photo was taken inside a Scania cab, I'd leaned across out of the seat and zoomed it a bit. The cab is 2.6m wide, so ita bout 2.2 m from your head to the window post and the the bottom of the window is about 8ft from the ground. The white cab is about 12ft away and as you can see I can't see the wheels and they are about 3ft tall. You can see all the mirrors we use and under the height indicator, where its says 1 under the 13 is the proximity sensor. That should give you a pretty good idea about what a truck driver can and cannot see. Cars disappear when they get in your front left corner.



When you watch the video, you can see the driver backs off to slot in behind the rider in the black, so he is aware of them and is driving to suit. This shot shows that he can see the one wearing the camera in his mirrors. He can't see the woman in the pink gloves in his mirrors, he may or may not be able to see the very top of her helmet, the fella in red is in and out of the blindspot. You can see from his position he is trying to race the truck to the lane



I agree there is a lack of respect between road users, but when you see people on bikes pulling this kind of shit, is it any surprise? I'm sick to death of seeing uninsured riders going through red lights, riding like twats and causing at times thousands of pounds of damage when they cause a crash.

And to really drive it home



Bloody hell man, honestly didn't realise just how impaired the lines of sight were.

I get what you mean about him "racing" the lorry - can't detect intent but I would have thought it would be to get out of its way? I certainly feel pressure sometimes to try and shoot off as other vehicles can get up close or get pissy if you are deemed not to have gotten out of their way quickly enough.

I get your frustrations but it goes both ways - could as easily say that I'm sick to death of cars almost forcing me into the kerb and pulling out without looking when I'm cycling. One particular thing is the way many cars treat those mini roundabouts and swing across them.

I say this as both a cyclist and someone who, until 6 months ago, was a driver also.

Drivers are barely taught anything about how to treat cyclists on the road and they should give more thought to, or respect to, people cycling. Respect meaning they shouldn't treat us like we don't belong on the road.

Cyclists though need to remember that they are beholden to the highway code and can't just fly through junctions and ignore traffic signals.

Whether introducing licence plates of some sort and a test to cycling would work, I'm not sure. Sadly it would make it more onerous for many and potentially make cycling less affordable. Would also be difficult with children and teens.

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Re: e-scooters
« Reply #310 on: September 24, 2021, 11:25:04 pm »
Until you get in a truck you have no idea how bad it can be, I was shocked how easily you can lose track of other vehicles and how a car can be invisible to you.

Car drivers are some of the worst, I gave up riding on the road due to them and my wife hates me being out on the motorbike because of the amount of near misses.
I'd like to see a lot more focus on the car test on watching out for cyclists and pedestrians and for people to be more patient in general, rather than rush rush rush everywhere.
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Re: e-scooters
« Reply #311 on: September 24, 2021, 11:31:30 pm »
^

This photo was taken inside a Scania cab, I'd leaned across out of the seat and zoomed it a bit. The cab is 2.6m wide, so ita bout 2.2 m from your head to the window post and the the bottom of the window is about 8ft from the ground. The white cab is about 12ft away and as you can see I can't see the wheels and they are about 3ft tall. You can see all the mirrors we use and under the height indicator, where its says 1 under the 13 is the proximity sensor. That should give you a pretty good idea about what a truck driver can and cannot see. Cars disappear when they get in your front left corner.



When you watch the video, you can see the driver backs off to slot in behind the rider in the black, so he is aware of them and is driving to suit. This shot shows that he can see the one wearing the camera in his mirrors. He can't see the woman in the pink gloves in his mirrors, he may or may not be able to see the very top of her helmet, the fella in red is in and out of the blindspot. You can see from his position he is trying to race the truck to the lane



I agree there is a lack of respect between road users, but when you see people on bikes pulling this kind of shit, is it any surprise? I'm sick to death of seeing uninsured riders going through red lights, riding like twats and causing at times thousands of pounds of damage when they cause a crash.

And to really drive it home


Rob I've have an LGV and have over 30 years experience, admittedly not driving the big units you do,  I only drive Fire engines but the crew cab and mirror set up are very familiar as  most of our engines are Scanias, I also ride cycles and believe me I've seen lots of horrendous driving and if you cycle most journeys you witness dangerous driving and you become an expert in avoidance of hazards or you end up dead. Several times I've been knocked of my bike with drivers pulling out without looking, I've been doored and narrowly escaped death, I've had a transit driver push me off my bike for fun and suffered concussion. Riding to work it was common to be the victim of dangerous driving you stop even reacting it's so common, you're constantly abused probably once or twice week on average, just for having the audacity to cycle. You are never more vulnerable as a road user than when you are on a bike look at the stats for death of cyclists by LGV's they aren't all the cyclist fault. Of course here are knobhead cyclists, and I have seen terrible riding but you're unlikely to be killed as result of it. Having had both perspectives the one conclusion I came to is that the worst thing is the stupid cyclist vs driver argument, if you stop seeing cyclists as human beings and they just become the enemy 'cyclists'  you stop seeing me as a Dad, a son a brother and it leads to people thinking it's acceptable to ride past me at 70 mph giving me literally inches space. By the same token cyclists that see drivers as the enemy have their part to play in the animosity the difference is cyclists always come of worse with  any crash with metal boxes. I know it can be really annoying when you witness poor riding especially when you're a professional driver and understand the potential consequences but the 'Jeremy Clarkson' drivers good cyclists bad animosity has real consequences for cyclists who are very vulnerable. `I'd be getting abused going to work by dickheads who thought shouting abuse is acceptable just because I'm on a bike then half an hour later would be driving a  LGV, the experience on a bike was good for me as a driver and vice versa. Most cyclists are also drivers
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Re: e-scooters
« Reply #312 on: September 25, 2021, 12:04:09 am »
BTW, have to say total respect for yourself and people who do drive the big articulated lorries, a stressful job that is often underrated and underpaid, and as a general rule  professional drivers aren't the problem when you cycle, much more likely to pass you safely etc. I have nothing but respect for the vast majority of drivers and now that there is a shortage I think people are getting a bit of a glimpse at how important a job you do. both the public and employers ;D
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Re: e-scooters
« Reply #313 on: September 25, 2021, 12:11:02 pm »
Until you get in a truck you have no idea how bad it can be, I was shocked how easily you can lose track of other vehicles and how a car can be invisible to you.

Car drivers are some of the worst, I gave up riding on the road due to them and my wife hates me being out on the motorbike because of the amount of near misses.
I'd like to see a lot more focus on the car test on watching out for cyclists and pedestrians and for people to be more patient in general, rather than rush rush rush everywhere.

I think your final line is key and something I was thinking myself - a lot of bad driving/cycling/pedestrians comes from people needing to be places 5 mins before they set off.

Rushing about like a headless chicken has to be one of the biggest causes of accidents as you aren't properly focused on the road conditions and what is happening around you.

Better to be a bit late but alive than rush and end up dead/hit someone else

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Re: e-scooters
« Reply #314 on: September 25, 2021, 05:25:51 pm »
I think your final line is key and something I was thinking myself - a lot of bad driving/cycling/pedestrians comes from people needing to be places 5 mins before they set off.

Rushing about like a headless chicken has to be one of the biggest causes of accidents as you aren't properly focused on the road conditions and what is happening around you.

Better to be a bit late but alive than rush and end up dead/hit someone else
In the wider societal context I think there is a lot in that.

There seems to be a mantra in Tory Britain (and America I believe) that everyone must be extremely busy, have five things on the go at any given time and make their lives as stupidly busy as possible. It's almost seen as virtuous to run yourself into an early grave. When this is the case, everyone is stressed, everyone is in a rush, everyone is making mistakes and everyone gets angry from time to time. This plays out in many scenarios, and on the road is just one of them. We are a society of automatons on a hamster wheel that is getting faster and faster.
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Re: e-scooters
« Reply #315 on: September 26, 2021, 03:24:01 am »

Having had both perspectives the one conclusion I came to is that the worst thing is the stupid cyclist vs driver argument, if you stop seeing cyclists as human beings and they just become the enemy 'cyclists'  you stop seeing me as a Dad, a son a brother and it leads to people thinking it's acceptable to ride past me at 70 mph giving me literally inches space. By the same token cyclists that see drivers as the enemy have their part to play in the animosity

That's quite possibly the most balanced perspectives on it all and one of the best posts I've read on here for ages . Some of the stuff I've read on other threads too shows that we are so disconnected from eachother with the old ' 'us and them '  or ' it's that lot ' mentality . Some posters are actually wishing harm and even death on people who are in a different mindset from them and still wish for a better world. We are all fucked with this attitude . It saddens me.
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Re: e-scooters
« Reply #316 on: September 26, 2021, 11:14:05 am »
That's quite possibly the most balanced perspectives on it all and one of the best posts I've read on here for ages . Some of the stuff I've read on other threads too shows that we are so disconnected from eachother with the old ' 'us and them '  or ' it's that lot ' mentality . Some posters are actually wishing harm and even death on people who are in a different mindset from them and still wish for a better world. We are all fucked with this attitude . It saddens me.

I'll admit to being guilty of that, but I'm sick to death of those in power destroying peoples lives, or in the case of the ant vaxx nutters, being responsible for other peoples deaths and getting off scot free.
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Re: e-scooters
« Reply #317 on: September 26, 2021, 04:11:34 pm »
Cyclist unconscious at hospital in Västerås, Sweden after an e-scooter stranded behind a crest was hit and launching the biker. While wearing a helmet while riding is a good lesson, it still strengthens my case for banning these abominations  :wanker

At the very least, age-restrict them because this sounds like someone not old enough to know better...
« Last Edit: September 26, 2021, 05:10:26 pm by Linudden »
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Re: e-scooters
« Reply #318 on: September 27, 2021, 01:09:06 am »
I'll admit to being guilty of that, but I'm sick to death of those in power destroying peoples lives, or in the case of the ant vaxx nutters, being responsible for other peoples deaths and getting off scot free.

I'll keep it dead simple mate . 

Why do your words make you admit to being guilty ? If that's your truth then you should not feel guilty at all . Think about that one . Also who are those in power ?


« Last Edit: September 27, 2021, 01:19:49 am by kesey »
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Re: e-scooters
« Reply #319 on: September 27, 2021, 08:42:18 am »
Said cyclist in central Sweden has now died after hitting the blinded e-scooter on the ground. Absolutely terrible.
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