Author Topic: Our attacking play...  (Read 6021 times)

Offline The Jackal

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Our attacking play...
« on: December 26, 2011, 05:46:47 pm »
...seriously needs to improve.


Now people might pinpoint poor finishing or performances by oppo goal-keepers as the reason we're not scoring more, but for me that doesn't even cover half of it. We're creating chances and having shots on goal, but how many of those are real quality chances? I'd guess just from observation that it's a fairly low proportion. I think we have a real problem in our attacking play and it needs to be addressed.


A lot of our forward play seems to be off the cuff or improvised. Now there's nothing wrong with improvisation - seeing a player produce a goal-scoring situation out of nothing is one of the things that is so great about football. However, I think that improvisation needs to come within a proper attacking structure, and this is something I think we are somewhat lacking at the moment.


This isn't simply a reaction to today's game, but something I've observed over the course of the season. A few of the problems I think we have:


Lack of players attacking the box when we get the ball wide.

Downing's come in for a fair bit of stick this season, some of it fairly. I think he's certainly improved recently and thought he played well today. I think part of the problem with Downing this season has been other players not doing the things that would maximise his abilities - i.e. presenting themselves as targets for crosses. We put a lot of crosses into the box on a regular basis (can't remember off the top of my head but I think the stats suggest we're among the top crosser in the league). A lot of the time though we only have one or maybe two players in the box. There's a lot of reasons for this - Suarez drifting wide, central midfielders not wanting to commit too far forward, our wide players not attacking the box regularly enough (Maxi being the notable exception to this and one of the reasons he should play more regularly IMO - also Downing seemed to be doing this more in the latter parts of today's game) -these are all things that need to be looked at and addressed. A lot of the time we seem (especially when Suarez has pulled wide) we seem to have three or four players in wide positions and only one in the box.


Lack of movement/wrong movement in the box.


Even when we have got players in the box they're either too static or make the wrong movements. Players should move in a way that maximises the potential for a goalscoring opportunity - they can't just stand there waiting for the perfect cross all the time. Carroll seems to be particularly guilty of this -  a player of his size should be imposing himself on the opposition defenders, getting accross them so they can't head it away - he did do it on a couple of occasions and almost scored from both of them, but needs to do it more (I know he's not played much recently before anyone points it out)..


Also players need to make runs in the box that help each other - a lot of the time we'll have two players making the same runs and congesting the space - making it easier to defend against.


Movement in the final third


We tend to pin teams back quite a lot and manage to get a lot of players forward a lot of the time, but we don't make the most of those situations. we've got to accept that teams are going to come to Anfield and defend deep - our movement and passing in those situations ha to be better if we are going to break teams down. We've got two quality attacking full-backs and they get forward a lot. Both of them have pace and skill and can be a real asset to our attacking play, but they are not linking up effectively with our wide players at the moment. A lot of the time they seem to be making supporting runs at the wrong time, or when they do they make the wrong runs - moving to the same place as the wide player and making that area more congested instead of pulling a defender away. In situations where we have the opposition pegged back our movement needs to be cleverer and our passing quicker and more incisive - the difference Gerrard made in this respect when he came on was there for everyone to see I think. It's as much about speed of mind as speed of movement - anticipation and knowing what you want to do before the ball has even got to you.


A lot of this may be put down to the fact that we have a lot of new faces in the team - it's harder to build up an understanding in an attacking sense. This might have been a valid excuse two or three months in, but we've had half a season now, and I would expect better at this stage. I'm hoping the return of Gerrard can kick our attacking play up a level, because we certainly need something..



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Offline Gerrard[LFC]

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Re: Our attacking play...
« Reply #1 on: December 26, 2011, 05:53:29 pm »
there was an article by hmmm forgot his name, the guy who writes LFC article (gets all the data and stats) who had stats showing we create the most clear cut chances and we miss the most from those clear cut chances. We have the lowest conversion rate, lowest finishing percentage, and so on and on. Half decent striker would have got into double figures so I think it is really down to finishing as we do create enough. we created enough in those games we drew especially at home, we need a finisher who can convert some of the chances we create.
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Offline callanlfc5times

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Re: Our attacking play...
« Reply #2 on: December 26, 2011, 05:53:45 pm »
It's shit to be honest, for all the possesion that we have how many clear cut chances do we actually make? I think we had one today and that was Carrol's volley that was saved at the end. When was the last time we put someone through one on one with the keeper? It's not just the build up play that is often wank, slow and predictable as well but when we do get chances our finishing is at best fucking shit!! There is never any movement in the box when we get it wide most of the time we have only 1 or 2 players actually in the box!! We often slow the game down by passing back to defenders when there is a chance of countering. Our central midfielders dont break from their positions, dont break forward, dont pass and move to pull defenders out of position and dont play many killer balls or defence splitting passes. Suarez for all his brilliance is inconsistant as fuck, he can be very selfish, a lot of the time makes the wrong decision, a lot of the time tries to twist and turn too much when smacking it after his first turn would probably be the better option.

So all in all it's wank. Especially the finishing.
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Offline YayaP

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Re: Our attacking play...
« Reply #3 on: December 26, 2011, 06:02:56 pm »
It's shit to be honest, for all the possesion that we have how many clear cut chances do we actually make?

This is what concerns me. Will buying a top class striker in January fix this?
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Offline AriGold

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Re: Our attacking play...
« Reply #4 on: December 26, 2011, 06:03:39 pm »
Gerrard coming back and when we get Nando back in Jan we'll be sound I reckon.
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Offline itsgunnabebarnes!

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Re: Our attacking play...
« Reply #5 on: December 26, 2011, 06:03:56 pm »
Wingers, that simple. Ours reflect our league position.
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Online koptommy93

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Re: Our attacking play...
« Reply #6 on: December 26, 2011, 06:06:49 pm »
Wingers, that simple. Ours reflect our league position.
i thought downing was excellent today tbf
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Offline The Jackal

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Re: Our attacking play...
« Reply #7 on: December 26, 2011, 06:07:32 pm »
Wingers, that simple. Ours reflect our league position.

I don't think it is just that. Downing played well today. We consistently get decent crosses into the box but don't convert those into goals - either from poor movement, finishing, lack of bodies in there, etc.. this is stuff that can and should be addressed with the players we currently have available. Buying a new player shouldn't always be the answer to problems on the pitch.
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Offline Jay012345

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Re: Our attacking play...
« Reply #8 on: December 26, 2011, 06:08:57 pm »
i thought downing was excellent today tbf

He was as good as he can be. Hes a good player, but definately not top class, and never has been. Not his fault.

Offline Juan Loco

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Re: Our attacking play...
« Reply #9 on: December 26, 2011, 06:08:59 pm »
See, I think our attacking play - bar the point about getting extra bodies in the box - is quite good. We create more chances now with regularity than I can remember for years.

Our finishing of these chances however... Yeah.
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Offline Alf Garnett!

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Re: Our attacking play...
« Reply #10 on: December 26, 2011, 06:09:19 pm »
We need a Fowler or a Rush,we're like a tin of no frills B&Q paint-no finish!

Offline Dmode101

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Re: Our attacking play...
« Reply #11 on: December 26, 2011, 06:09:22 pm »
the problem is wingers and not strikers. TOP CLASS wingers are more expensive to purchase than strikers because they are rarer and is actually the player that turns the games on it s head in a 4-3-3 which is the most effective attacking formation. Top clubs fight tooth and nail to get these wingers.

Hence I believe until comolli manages to convince a top winger like lavezzi, hulk or hazard, he is not earning his strips at our club.
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Offline itsgunnabebarnes!

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Re: Our attacking play...
« Reply #12 on: December 26, 2011, 06:09:47 pm »
See, I think our attacking play - bar the point about getting extra bodies in the box - is quite good. We create more chances now with regularity than I can remember for years.

Our finishing of these chances however... Yeah.

I think more of the problem is decision making close to goal. Suarez is one of the worst.
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Offline Fiasco

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Re: Our attacking play...
« Reply #13 on: December 26, 2011, 06:09:59 pm »
It's too predicatable and not ruthless enough. Not enough players in the box when we get it out wide, final ball too narrow or simply not good enough and players off the ball are way too static and scared to get involved. It's so fucking annoying I can't put it into words.

Offline itsgunnabebarnes!

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Re: Our attacking play...
« Reply #14 on: December 26, 2011, 06:11:15 pm »
We do not whip balls in, we float them in, easy to defend. United whip them in.
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Offline Dmode101

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Re: Our attacking play...
« Reply #15 on: December 26, 2011, 06:13:31 pm »
We do not whip balls in, we float them in, easy to defend. United whip them in.

yes, and attacking wingers that whip in accurately are of higher technical ability, which cost more. which we didnt pay for compared to the top teams above us. reality check.
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Offline LiverBirdKop

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Re: Our attacking play...
« Reply #16 on: December 26, 2011, 06:14:54 pm »
We do not whip balls in, we float them in, easy to defend. United whip them in.
That's because their players have pace, get behind defenders, anticipate where to be, where the pass/cross will be going whereas we're static and always outnumbered inside the box.

Offline Juan Loco

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Re: Our attacking play...
« Reply #17 on: December 26, 2011, 06:15:42 pm »
I think more of the problem is decision making close to goal. Suarez is one of the worst.

True, but that's a problem with a lot of sides I reckon. Especially when a team has a two-goal lead or more. We've been fucking terrible for years at trying to walk the ball into the net when we're a couple of goals up instead of twatting a team by 4 or 5.

At the moment we're extending that trend to doing it at one up or even when we're level. We're Arsenaling it.
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Offline FranklyRed

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Re: Our attacking play...
« Reply #18 on: December 26, 2011, 06:15:50 pm »
We need a 10 who can link up very well with either Suarez or Carroll (but of course preferably Suarez!), is creative, technically gifted (trickery) and plays between the lines, scores about 15 goals a season overall, minimum. Two footed (so can go out wide now and then) if not too much too ask...  and who can score a peno now and then ;)

A type like Özil, Mata, Reus (18.5 mln Euro but Bayern bound), Götze, etc.
Expensive but hey...  we spent 20 on Downing and 35 on Carroll....  ::)   

« Last Edit: December 26, 2011, 06:20:27 pm by FranklyRed »
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Offline fosspowered

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Re: Our attacking play...
« Reply #19 on: December 26, 2011, 06:19:20 pm »
We need a 10 who can link up very well with either Suarez or Carroll (but of course preferably Suarez!), is creative, technically gifted and plays between the lines, scores about 15 goals a season overall, minimum. Two footed if not too much too ask...  and who can score a peno now and then ;)
Don't know about 10 but we have a number 8 who can do exactly that. ;)
Though we indeed need a technically gifted and creative player.

Offline The Jackal

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Re: Our attacking play...
« Reply #20 on: December 26, 2011, 06:19:41 pm »
We need a 10 who can link up very well with either Suarez or Carroll (but of course preferably Suarez!), is creative, technically gifted and plays between the lines, scores about 15 goals a season overall, minimum. Two footed if not too much too ask...  and who can score a peno now and then ;)



Gerrard? ;)
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Offline FranklyRed

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Re: Our attacking play...
« Reply #21 on: December 26, 2011, 06:21:56 pm »
Gerrard can do that ... like in the season with Torres...

but I really have doubt about his fitness, time to get back to this best etc.
We need a new Gerrard ...
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Offline TOMMO86

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Re: Our attacking play...
« Reply #22 on: December 26, 2011, 06:23:58 pm »
I've read all them replys and not 1 of you has mentioned the slow movement or lack of movement from out CM's. Forget wingers. Downing and a Maxi or Bellamy can do a job til the summer. What we lack is a class AM. Gerrard hasn't got the legs for it anymore. When our wingers have the ball and get a cross in one of out CM should be there steaming into the box for the second ball but we NEVER do this. Not many people say it they would rather slate Carroll or Downing but for me Adam is our worst signing. Slows play down when he doesn't need to. Takes an extra touch when he has the space to play a quick pass. He always looks fucked. He needs to give himself a slap. Lucas made him look better than what he was.  A thought for you.  Downing. Alonso. Mascherano. Maxi would be brilliant. Like I said forget your wingers. We need to sort the middle out.

Offline Dmode101

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Re: Our attacking play...
« Reply #23 on: December 26, 2011, 06:26:36 pm »
We only bought one winger in the summer....we need to buy 2-3 more prior to the start of next year.  We had too many holes in the squad that needed filling before we could focus completely on our attackers.  Now that GK to CM has appropriate competition, we can focus on the attackers.

yeah preferably a top ace attacking winger. we cant just give excuses like no CL hence these players wont come. Sometimes you got to break the bank to show intent which will create hope and motivation and hence more money. Liverpool fan base is global. although FSG is not so rich as the arabs the revenue lost from huge transfers can be covered back from merchandise unlike top teams with smaller fan base.

we need owners that can match our fan base and potential. this january will see the true colours of the owners.
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Offline Steve Funn

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Re: Our attacking play...
« Reply #24 on: December 26, 2011, 06:29:15 pm »
yes, and attacking wingers that whip in accurately are of higher technical ability, which cost more. which we didnt pay for compared to the top teams above us. reality check.
Downing & Henderson who've both played wide a fair bit this year cost more than any of uniteds widemen?  More than arsenals and spurs too, only chelsea and city with their 'special' circumstances have paid more than us.

We just need loads  more from Downing, hes playing really badly compared to how he played last season.


Im glad to see a few people also sharing the idea that whilst we're creaing chances they arent the clearest cleanest chances, more half chances for somebody to snap at whilst theyre under pressure from the defender, I dont think any of carrolls chances were easy today and he did ok with them , and how often does suarez gett put easily clear through on goal for all the shit he gets about his finishing?


We'll get nowhere with this 'were unlucky' 'its unfair because the keepers make saves'  'we dont need to change things theyll get better by themselves' attitude, that is a roy hodgson attitude.

Offline itsgunnabebarnes!

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Re: Our attacking play...
« Reply #25 on: December 26, 2011, 06:30:12 pm »
I've read all them replys and not 1 of you has mentioned the slow movement or lack of movement from out CM's. Forget wingers. Downing and a Maxi or Bellamy can do a job til the summer. What we lack is a class AM. Gerrard hasn't got the legs for it anymore. When our wingers have the ball and get a cross in one of out CM should be there steaming into the box for the second ball but we NEVER do this. Not many people say it they would rather slate Carroll or Downing but for me Adam is our worst signing. Slows play down when he doesn't need to. Takes an extra touch when he has the space to play a quick pass. He always looks fucked. He needs to give himself a slap. Lucas made him look better than what he was.  A thought for you.  Downing. Alonso. Mascherano. Maxi would be brilliant. Like I said forget your wingers. We need to sort the middle out.

Your point about the midfield not supporting is very true, and was evident today more than ever. It looked to me like they were both told to sit, well there was certainly no effort to get in the box/forward.
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Offline Zlen

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Re: Our attacking play...
« Reply #26 on: December 26, 2011, 06:30:45 pm »
We really don't make that much good chances at all.
Finishing sure, but mostly lack of players attacking the box with intelligence and verve.

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Re: Our attacking play...
« Reply #27 on: December 26, 2011, 06:32:59 pm »
Don't think theres enough bodies getting forward from the middle. Many times this season when a cross comes in, theres very few red shirts to recieve it and when cleared theres hardly a red shirt in sight to get on the rebound. Gerrard is the sort of player who hangs around this area but in his absense it has been telling and even with him back we will always need more bodies around him as the opposition will always try to curtail him.
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Offline The Jackal

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Re: Our attacking play...
« Reply #28 on: December 26, 2011, 06:34:39 pm »
Your point about the midfield not supporting is very true, and was evident today more than ever. It looked to me like they were both told to sit, well there was certainly no effort to get in the box/forward.

True. It's not even about getting into the box, but getting further forward and fighting for 2nd balls. there were so many occasions today when we got a cross in ,Blackburn cleared it and the ball fell to one of their players completely unchallenged. Not just today either - seems to be a regular occurrence..
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Offline Nin

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Re: Our attacking play...
« Reply #29 on: December 26, 2011, 06:34:59 pm »
I've read all them replys and not 1 of you has mentioned the slow movement or lack of movement from out CM's. Forget wingers. Downing and a Maxi or Bellamy can do a job til the summer. What we lack is a class AM. Gerrard hasn't got the legs for it anymore. When our wingers have the ball and get a cross in one of out CM should be there steaming into the box for the second ball but we NEVER do this. Not many people say it they would rather slate Carroll or Downing but for me Adam is our worst signing. Slows play down when he doesn't need to. Takes an extra touch when he has the space to play a quick pass. He always looks fucked. He needs to give himself a slap. Lucas made him look better than what he was.  A thought for you.  Downing. Alonso. Mascherano. Maxi would be brilliant. Like I said forget your wingers. We need to sort the middle out.

Was going to write something similar, but you've put it better than I could. Spot on. Think Henderson could show some balls and get in the box more as well as Adam, though.

Offline U13

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Re: Our attacking play...
« Reply #30 on: December 26, 2011, 06:35:24 pm »
Raul in January would be an astute bit of business in my opinion.

An old head who's no stranger to playing for a big club, clearly still has the hunger to play at the top level, a model professional and most importantly he's a brilliant finisher with the knack of being in the right place at the right time.

Our other players might even learn a thing or two from him as well, Schalke seem very unsure about keeping him on so we could do a lot worse than to monitor his situation.

Offline itsgunnabebarnes!

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Re: Our attacking play...
« Reply #31 on: December 26, 2011, 06:35:50 pm »
True. It's not even about getting into the box, but getting further forward and fighting for 2nd balls. there were so many occasions today when we got a cross in ,Blackburn cleared it and the ball fell to one of their players completely unchallenged. Not just today either - seems to be a regular occurrence..

spot on.
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Offline callanlfc5times

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Re: Our attacking play...
« Reply #32 on: December 26, 2011, 06:36:16 pm »
I've read all them replys and not 1 of you has mentioned the slow movement or lack of movement from out CM's. Forget wingers. Downing and a Maxi or Bellamy can do a job til the summer. What we lack is a class AM. Gerrard hasn't got the legs for it anymore. When our wingers have the ball and get a cross in one of out CM should be there steaming into the box for the second ball but we NEVER do this. Not many people say it they would rather slate Carroll or Downing but for me Adam is our worst signing. Slows play down when he doesn't need to. Takes an extra touch when he has the space to play a quick pass. He always looks fucked. He needs to give himself a slap. Lucas made him look better than what he was.  A thought for you.  Downing. Alonso. Mascherano. Maxi would be brilliant. Like I said forget your wingers. We need to sort the middle out.

Agreed, how many times does Adam play the ball back to the keeper? I will see us pick up the ball in midfield and I think oh shit yes, great chance to break. Turn, drive forward play a killer pass.... To then see it has fallen to Adam who takes a touch, tries to turn with the turning circle equilivant to a bus, takes another touch to turn his semi turned self back towards our goal to play a brilliant defence splitting pass which goes inbetween Agger and Skrtel and straight to Reina resulting in our counter attacking chance breaking down. His movement is complete and utter shit and if he isn't dictating the tempo of the game in an effective way and he isn't providing defence splitting passes and he isn't providing cover for our defence and if he isn't get forward to support the attack then what's his point? He's a very very very very shit Alonso
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Offline FernandoTourettes

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Re: Our attacking play...
« Reply #33 on: December 26, 2011, 06:40:32 pm »
I think more of the problem is decision making close to goal. Suarez is one of the worst.
His problem is he tries to force everything, no doubt caused by a combination of assuming responsibility, wanting to be a hero, knowing he may not be playing for 8 games soon and pressure from team mates not scoring either. His lay offs to team mates in this 18 yard box are often forced and over played also.

We are depending far too much on him and I believe all the above to be a result. However, if there is anything to learn from 8 games without him, is that the team need to adapt and take collective responsibility.

Offline gallden

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Re: Our attacking play...
« Reply #34 on: December 26, 2011, 06:44:44 pm »
yeah preferably a top ace attacking winger. we cant just give excuses like no CL hence these players wont come. Sometimes you got to break the bank to show intent which will create hope and motivation and hence more money. Liverpool fan base is global. although FSG is not so rich as the arabs the revenue lost from huge transfers can be covered back from merchandise unlike top teams with smaller fan base.

we need owners that can match our fan base and potential. this january will see the true colours of the owners.
Expound on this please.

Offline Dubai_Red

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Re: Our attacking play...
« Reply #35 on: December 26, 2011, 06:44:58 pm »
It's shit to be honest, for all the possesion that we have how many clear cut chances do we actually make? I think we had one today and that was Carrol's volley that was saved at the end. When was the last time we put someone through one on one with the keeper? It's not just the build up play that is often wank, slow and predictable as well but when we do get chances our finishing is at best fucking shit!! There is never any movement in the box when we get it wide most of the time we have only 1 or 2 players actually in the box!! We often slow the game down by passing back to defenders when there is a chance of countering. Our central midfielders dont break from their positions, dont break forward, dont pass and move to pull defenders out of position and dont play many killer balls or defence splitting passes. Suarez for all his brilliance is inconsistant as fuck, he can be very selfish, a lot of the time makes the wrong decision, a lot of the time tries to twist and turn too much when smacking it after his first turn would probably be the better option.

So all in all it's wank. Especially the finishing.

watched todays game with the kids interrupting every 2 minutes, but off the top of my head inthe 2nd half Suarez had an unchallenged header as did Maxi, both to me were clearing scoring chances and if we dont take them, then we have only ourselves to blame.

Agree about Suarez though - he has been wasiteful of late. Needs a rest both pyhsically & mentally.

Offline Gnurglan

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Re: Our attacking play...
« Reply #36 on: December 26, 2011, 06:45:06 pm »
It's hard to escape the huge problem we have: scoring goals. It really is a bad trend. And a very long one too.

For me we have two alternatives. One is we lock Suarez in the center and tell him to focus on the goalscoring only. Forget creating outside the box, we nee him to do the business inside the box. That is the cheap option. Then we buy a LM/RM in January. It's the one I'd like us to try first.

The second alternative is far more expensive. People will of course disagree with the choice of player, but I'll mention him because it's the easy pick. Buy Torres. Someone we know can do the business. It's somewhat provocative, but that's on purpose. Sell Carroll, take the financial hit and go for someone who can do the business straight off. Too much of a desperate act for me, but I could still understand it.

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Offline gallden

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Re: Our attacking play...
« Reply #37 on: December 26, 2011, 06:49:21 pm »
It's hard to escape the huge problem we have: scoring goals. It really is a bad trend. And a very long one too.

For me we have two alternatives. One is we lock Suarez in the center and tell him to focus on the goalscoring only. Forget creating outside the box, we nee him to do the business inside the box. That is the cheap option. Then we buy a LM/RM in January. It's the one I'd like us to try first.

The second alternative is far more expensive. People will of course disagree with the choice of player, but I'll mention him because it's the easy pick. Buy Torres. Someone we know can do the business. It's somewhat provocative, but that's on purpose. Sell Carroll, take the financial hit and go for someone who can do the business straight off. Too much of a desperate act for me, but I could still understand it.
Not that I disagree with your premise but this should be interesting.

Offline sinnermichael

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Re: Our attacking play...
« Reply #38 on: December 26, 2011, 07:07:26 pm »
the best attacking display for me this season was the first half away against brighton in the cup. yes ok it was only brighton but the interplay and movement between the front 4 (suarez down the middle with bellamy/maxi/kuyt as the three behind the main striker) was a joy. we ripped them to shreds and once again lack of finishing stopped us from putting the game out of sight. not surprisingly, three of these four were in the side at the end of last season when we were playing some great stuff and hammering teams for fun. this season we've seen the four of them start away at chelsea in the league when once again we produced some of our best football of the season.

Offline Gnurglan

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Re: Our attacking play...
« Reply #39 on: December 26, 2011, 07:30:36 pm »
Not that I disagree with your premise but this should be interesting.

Put his name there because we know he can do the job. With pretty much every other player we'd have "not PL proven" and such things. The main point is that it's a player who can come in and deliver immediately. And that we can expect it from him. There's also the thing that if we think it's urgent and want a real expensive solution, then I think we'll have to make a sacrifise. Sacrifise Carroll and we admit we made a mistake and move on. Sacrifise Kuyt/Maxi/Bellamy and we'd just have the management team sticking their necks out even more.

        * * * * * *


"The key isn't the system itself, but how the players adapt on the pitch. It doesn't matter if it's 4-3-3 or 4-4-2, it's the role of the players that counts." Rafa Benitez