Topic: Solidarity and tributes from fans of other clubs

[...]

its amazing reading through some of those how many people, despite it being spelled out for them today still feel the blame lies with the fans still, fair play to the other users on the sites for correcting them

Yeah, I went for a quick read on some of them and had to close my browser and go downstairs for a drink and some air, though I guess you're always going to get people like that.

[Snail]

its amazing reading through some of those how many people, despite it being spelled out for them today still feel the blame lies with the fans still, fair play to the other users on the sites for correcting them

And from now on you should just ignore them. They'll never change, they are who they are - sad, pathetic, pitiful individuals blinded by dislike for our club, and/or the city, and/or football culture in general. There really isn't an acceptable explanation for it, and I personally think they should seek professional help.

Edit: Or just utter Tories.

[kesey]

Some threads on other forums if anyone is interested -

Everton - https://www.grandoldteam.com/forum/threads/the-hillsborough-inquest-verdicts-unlawful-killing-verdict-fans-not-responsible.87524/
Leicester City - http://www.foxestalk.co.uk/forums/topic/105854-hillsborough-inquest-findings-today-at-11am/
Celtic - http://kerrydalestreet.co.uk/topic/9284558/1/
Man United - http://www.redcafe.net/threads/hillsborough-inquests-verdict-96-unlawfully-killed.416772/
Man City - http://forums.bluemoon-mcfc.co.uk/threads/hillsborough-verdicts-reached.321513/
Arsenal - http://arsenal-mania.com/forum/threads/justice-for-the-96-victims-of-hillsborough.29057/
Wolves - http://www.molineuxmix.co.uk/vb/showthread.php?t=97707
Crystal Palace - http://www.cpfc.org/forums/showthread.php?t=264964
General Scottish football - http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.php/topic/158994-hillsborough-debate/
Grimsby Town - http://thefishy.co.uk/cgi-bin/forum/Blah.pl?m-1461670212/
Southend United - http://www.shrimperzone.com/vb/showthread.php?89778-Hillsborough-inquiry-verdict
Hibernian - http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?310006-Hillsborough-verdict-to-be-delivered-at-11am
Brighton - http://www.northstandchat.com/showthread.php?337184-Hillsborough-verdict-Fans-unlawfully-killed
Burnley - http://www.uptheclarets.com/messageboard/viewtopic.php?t=3406

Ive been doing the rounds today to. I must admit I was shocked to read what I read on the West Ham one.

[AirConGipsyRed]

Some threads on other forums if anyone is interested -

Everton - https://www.grandoldteam.com/forum/threads/the-hillsborough-inquest-verdicts-unlawful-killing-verdict-fans-not-responsible.87524/
Leicester City - http://www.foxestalk.co.uk/forums/topic/105854-hillsborough-inquest-findings-today-at-11am/
Celtic - http://kerrydalestreet.co.uk/topic/9284558/1/
Man United - http://www.redcafe.net/threads/hillsborough-inquests-verdict-96-unlawfully-killed.416772/
Man City - http://forums.bluemoon-mcfc.co.uk/threads/hillsborough-verdicts-reached.321513/
Arsenal - http://arsenal-mania.com/forum/threads/justice-for-the-96-victims-of-hillsborough.29057/
Wolves - http://www.molineuxmix.co.uk/vb/showthread.php?t=97707
Crystal Palace - http://www.cpfc.org/forums/showthread.php?t=264964
General Scottish football - http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.php/topic/158994-hillsborough-debate/
Grimsby Town - http://thefishy.co.uk/cgi-bin/forum/Blah.pl?m-1461670212/
Southend United - http://www.shrimperzone.com/vb/showthread.php?89778-Hillsborough-inquiry-verdict
Hibernian - http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?310006-Hillsborough-verdict-to-be-delivered-at-11am
Brighton - http://www.northstandchat.com/showthread.php?337184-Hillsborough-verdict-Fans-unlawfully-killed
Burnley - http://www.uptheclarets.com/messageboard/viewtopic.php?t=3406

Stunned by the lies that people still quote as "fact"

Gutted to be honest

[WanderingRed]

Stunned by the lies that people still quote as "fact"

Gutted to be honest

That's all what they are now. Lies.

The truth is out there. Thats the only thing that matters.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

Spent most of the day reading comments from other forums, and the worst I've seen is on City' forums , and Aston Villa forum. There were people having a go at them as well but still shocking to read non the less.

[kesey]

Spent most of the day reading comments from other forums, and the worst I've seen is on City' forums , and Aston Villa forum. There were people having a go at them as well but still shocking to read non the less.

I read on the West Ham one that the families are just after compensation.

It beggars belief.

[please, I have my reasons for it but...]

Would the same allegations have been thrown around had the victims not been from Liverpool?

I bet you had Hillsborough happened to a club from London, none of the lies would have stuck till now. Quite shocking those who still question the fans' role in all of that, well here is your answer now, the fans HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

Having now read the entire Scottish General Football Thread link, that is clearly the worst. ''Justice for Heysel'' ''Victimpool''etc....

[telekon]

I was appalled of what I read on the Manchester City one. How can people be so thick and heartless at the same time.

Arsenal and Celtic were the ones that seemed decent and mostly respectful to the truth and the victim's families. I only read a couple from the Manchester United one, which were sincere and respectful.

[Redman0151]

The problem with the internet is it gives every idiot a voice and makes them think what they say is worthwhile. Huge emotive subjects like Hillsborough will always attract the idiots like moths to a light. They don't represent the majority of their fanbases, and it's best not letting yourself get bogged down in what a few internet trolls have to say

I'll remember Man City fans for tributes like this:





Rather than what a few teenagers desperate for attention, who probably have 0 connection to the club pre-oil money.

[please, I have my reasons for it but...]

Forums of clubs in the Midlands like Wednesday, Forest and  Villa in particular is shambolic.

[WEST HAM PAUL]

I read on the West Ham one that the families are just after compensation.

It beggars belief.

I read that mate & was embarrassed. Unfortunately a few posters who's opinion was made up before the verdict it hasn't changed there minds . In fact excuse my language but the one who posted about the money is a complete c*nt .

It is the minority & as someone mentioned forums give a voice to idiots who in day to day life don't get heard as face to face most people know there dickheads

[Hij]

I think today we shouldn't be worried too much about other fans. Yes, it  may be hurtful, yes it may be incorrect. Some people never want to admit that they were wrong - we shouldn't find that surprising. We need to celebrate this win as a collective and stay strong. The victims died by unlawful killing. Their fellow comrades and fellow supporters did NOT contribute to their deaths. That's all that matters, anything else can disappear.

[telekon]

The problem with the internet is it gives every idiot a voice and makes them think what they say is worthwhile. Huge emotive subjects like Hillsborough will always attract the idiots like moths to a light. They don't represent the majority of their fanbases, and it's best not letting yourself get bogged down in what a few internet trolls have to say

I'll remember Man City fans for tributes like this:





Rather than what a few teenagers desperate for attention, who probably have 0 connection to the club pre-oil money.

Cheers for balancing that, mate.

I think today we shouldn't be worried too much about other fans. Yes, it  may be hurtful, yes it may be incorrect. Some people never want to admit that they were wrong - we shouldn't find that surprising. We need to celebrate this win as a collective and stay strong. The victims died by unlawful killing. Their fellow comrades and fellow supporters did NOT contribute to their deaths. That's all that matters, anything else can disappear.

Too true. 

[bird_lfc]

Spent most of the day reading comments from other forums, and the worst I've seen is on City' forums , and Aston Villa forum. There were people having a go at them as well but still shocking to read non the less.

I'm sorry but why would you spend all day on forums of other football teams?

rise above it and ignore it mate. we all know the real 'facts' and they were exposed yesterday.

someone nailed it on a Facebook comment (of all places) I saw yesterday. this would never have gone this far if it was say a group of fans from the south/London, rather than those pesky 'thieving scousers'. stereotypes eh?

[Aaron Rattray1]

As A Grimsby Town fan I'd just like to express my disgust at some of the posts on our forum, I would say most of them are respectful, but some of them show a lack of basic understanding and respect, these posters are a minority who quickly got shot down by other posters on the forum, I do apologise about some of the posts, but as I said a minority who will never change their mind, please don't tar us all with the same brush

[gerrardsarmy]

Celtic FC statement.

http://www.celticfc.net/news/10398

[BlackandWhitePaul]

The problem with the internet is it gives every idiot a voice and makes them think what they say is worthwhile. Huge emotive subjects like Hillsborough will always attract the idiots like moths to a light. They don't represent the majority of their fanbases, and it's best not letting yourself get bogged down in what a few internet trolls have to say

I'll remember Man City fans for tributes like this:





Rather than what a few teenagers desperate for attention, who probably have 0 connection to the club pre-oil money.

I'm with you 100% of the way.

Well said.

[JohnnoWhite]

I am saddened to say that although the coroner's court verdict has completely exonerated ALL of the Liverpool fans that made that fateful trip on April 15th, it's my view that absolute justice has not yet been done. I say this because all of the liars and the distorters of the truth back in the day of Sheffield 1989 and still since, have not yet been brought to account.

Those top level barefaced liars and cowards in the police have not been charged with anything yet. Sheffield Wednesday the club and its officials have not been called to account for their gross negligence on the day. Neither have Thatcher's hatchet men  and the journos of the right-wing Scum who had plenty and more to say about "pissed-up" Scousers behaviour been called to account for their part in Thatcher's campaign against the people.
Of ALL of those still living and breathing after 27 years of grief and torture for the victim's families NONE have been called to account or charged to answer for their foul and false accusations.


I believe that Andy Burnham ought now to move a Commons motion that demands a full Parliamentary Inquiry be set up to investigate to the fullest those who orchestrated that scandalous vitriolic and compassionless political campaign of vilification of those tragic victims of Hillsborough.

Whilst the likes of shite like Ingham, McKenzie and Duckenfield - the absolute perverters of justice - still live and breathe unchallenged and unaccountable for their lies and callous deceit of that terrible time, then for me sadly, the journey and the delivery of justice - REAL and FULL justice - still has some way to go.

YNWA the 96!

[Peabee]

I read that mate & was embarrassed. Unfortunately a few posters who's opinion was made up before the verdict it hasn't changed there minds . In fact excuse my language but the one who posted about the money is a complete c*nt .

It is the minority & as someone mentioned forums give a voice to idiots who in day to day life don't get heard as face to face most people know there dickheads

Exactly mate.  They're just trolls, dickheads or morons out for a reaction, and I doubt any would voice those opinions to our faces.  We know the truth, we have the verdict, and anyone still repeating the lies can be ignored.

[Butcher Knife Roberto]

The only opinion that matters is of the nine people who gave a considerable chunk of their lives for the cause of truth and justice. In time, the idiots who are tucked safely behind their keyboards when they write this sort of hurtful nonsense will be the exception rather than the norm, and will stick out as the morons that they are. The vast majority of fans from other clubs are absolutely supportive and have been nothing but respectful.

All I ask of the morons who post drivel on the other forums is this: what if it had happened to you?

[Kashinoda]

its amazing reading through some of those how many people, despite it being spelled out for them today still feel the blame lies with the fans still, fair play to the other users on the sites for correcting them

To be fair the few who have come out with the usual crap have been roundly put in their place.

[zero zero]

It is the minority & as someone mentioned forums give a voice to idiots who in day to day life don't get heard as face to face most people know there dickheads

That's quite insightful. I think you may be right.

As A Grimsby Town fan I'd just like to express my disgust at some of the posts on our forum, I would say most of them are respectful, but some of them show a lack of basic understanding and respect, these posters are a minority who quickly got shot down by other posters on the forum, I do apologise about some of the posts, but as I said a minority who will never change their mind, please don't tar us all with the same brush

These Hillsborough threads follow an arc. First you get the threadstarter who's kept themselves informed. And then a few more will comment on the families finally having justice. One will remark on how unbelievable it is that it's taken 27 long years to get to this point.

And then, despite our life experiences teaching us over and over that such things as possible, up steps the dickhead that just cannot let go of the Lies. And we're shocked. Even though we KNOW that such people exist - some people really are that thick. Or heartless. Whatever it is, it's heartening to see that today they get turned on and openly mocked and ridiculed for holding on to their ignorance despite the evidence. Some people really are that thick and their minds aren't for changing. They're like flat-earthers now.

Solidarity is what I see from the vast majority of football fans. Which is what this thread is all about.

[-HH-]

Johnno, the Pauls (West Ham and Newcastle ), Aaron... thanks very much. We all know the majority of people are decent human beings who welcome this. The minority, who refuse to believe the facts laid out in front of them do not deserve our time any more. There was a time when education was important, because people didn't know the scale of the authorities' deceit. That cannot be said now. The truth is out there for anyone who wishes to read it. If they choose not to, then they're a lost cause. Let them be in their own sad little worlds. Most football fans share our desire to see justice done. Of course our own resident opposition supporters have been on our side a lot longer than most, for which we will always be grateful.

Precisely. There are some fans from just about every club up and down the country who always backed the campaign for justice. That number increased significantly in 2012 but people who weren't swayed then won't be swayed now. If you look at their posts you can see that they can't even get basic facts right. On that Leicester forum I saw someone stating that 'even 20 miles from Liverpool they couldn't get a unanimous verdict on the fans not being to blame.' Except as we all know 13 out of the 14 verdicts were unanimous - including that one.

I thought about correcting them briefly before realising exactly what Rhi has said here. The truth is out there, proven in a court of law. If people didn't accept that they won't accept it from us and simply aren't worth the time.

As a long time member here I too only remember support from the names Rhi mentioned. They matter because they helped give the victims a voice over the years. Internet trolls don't matter.

Thank-you.

[kesey]

I read that mate & was embarrassed. Unfortunately a few posters who's opinion was made up before the verdict it hasn't changed there minds . In fact excuse my language but the one who posted about the money is a complete c*nt .

It is the minority & as someone mentioned forums give a voice to idiots who in day to day life don't get heard as face to face most people know there dickheads

I was shocked Paul as thought West Ham and Scousers understood eacother.A class thing.

Ive still got a soft spot for you lot. My dads best mate from the Para's was a Cockney and we spent a bit of our summer holidays in Barking. It was around the time West Ham had a very good team. Devonshire and Brooking. I use to live in Leytonstone for a bit in the 90s to and went the pubs around the Bolyen ground on match days with me West Ham mates. I never went in though.

Love West Ham.

[kennedy81]

Johnno, the Pauls (West Ham and Newcastle ), Aaron... thanks very much. We all know the majority of people are decent human beings who welcome this. The minority, who refuse to believe the facts laid out in front of them do not deserve our time any more. There was a time when education was important, because people didn't know the scale of the authorities' deceit. That cannot be said now. The truth is out there for anyone who wishes to read it. If they choose not to, then they're a lost cause. Let them be in their own sad little worlds. Most football fans share our desire to see justice done. Of course our own resident opposition supporters have been on our side a lot longer than most, for which we will always be grateful.

Spot on Rhi. I used to try and engage with people like that and inform them of the facts, but yesterday I decided I no longer would. The last word on this finally belongs to the 96, for ever and all time.
One thing that struck me about much of the reaction I saw yesterday, was how large the majority of football fans who supported the verdict was. Quite a difference to 10 or 20 years ago. We've come a long way from those dark days.

[Statto Red]

Precisely. There are some fans from just about every club up and down the country who always backed the campaign for justice. That number increased significantly in 2012 but people who weren't swayed then won't be swayed now. If you look at their posts you can see that they can't even get basic facts right. On that Leicester forum I saw someone stating that 'even 20 miles from Liverpool they couldn't get a unanimous verdict on the fans not being to blame.' Except as we all know 13 out of the 14 verdicts were unanimous - including that one.

I thought about correcting them briefly before realising exactly what Rhi has said here. The truth is out there, proven in a court of law. If people didn't accept that they won't accept it from us and simply aren't worth the time.

As a long time member here I too only remember support from the names Rhi mentioned. They matter because they helped give the victims a voice over the years. Internet trolls don't matter.

Thank-you.

I read the Leicester forum as well & only a couple of FMs on there posting stuff like, that but are being brought to task by other FMs on that forum.


 

[Johnnyboy1973]

some people really are that thick.

And gullible - the sort of prerequisites that any cover up is built on.

I was shocked though. This goes beyond tribalism. Maybe a lie reinforced over nigh on 30 years will struggle to ever be a truth again, to some. Maybe some, through a 'guardian' effect, cant come to turns with such a corrupt, safety net.

Part of me was going to join said sites, show the evidence again and continue to educate. Then I remembered the families singing YNWA outside the inquest and thought,

"Fuck 'em, just fuck 'em all".

[Reacher]

what ive found is although people had a view of what they thought happened 27 years ago and the cover up ever since, the decisions that all found in the families favour have opened up many questions, the main one being how on earth did this happen?

Ive been educating my 15 year old son on what happened, why this is so important to everyone connected with Liverpool and football in general. Its an opportunity for all to spread the message of truth.

However, I doubt there is anything we can do about the dickheads out there who will believe what they want, but Im confident, that in time, these voices will be drowned out by the voices of truth and justice.

YNWA

[zero zero]

And gullible - the sort of prerequisites that any cover up is built on.

That doesn't really wash, especially after the 2012 findings.

I was shocked though. This goes beyond tribalism. Maybe a lie reinforced over nigh on 30 years will struggle to ever be a truth again, to some. Maybe some, through a 'guardian' effect, cant come to turns with such a corrupt, safety net.

I'm still sticking with incredibly thick. What must these divvies be thinking when the listen to reports or read headlines? I don't think they're capable of absorbing what's being said. Their innate prejudice is too strong. The fellow forum members are doing their best, which is great to see. But as you rightly say, for us, just fuck 'em.

[redmark]

However, I doubt there is anything we can do about the dickheads out there who will believe what they want, but Im confident, that in time, these voices will be drowned out by the voices of truth and justice.

I don't think such people actually 'believe' such things anymore, in any meaningful sense of the word; they can only do so by ignoring or wilfully misreading every published word on the actual facts. But to change their stance now involves a level of self-analysis and admission of deep flaws in their own psyche that they're just not capable of. Therefore it's easier, emotionally and psychologically, for them to stick to their version of events than to admit their own hatred, lack of empathy and stupidity.

[redgriffin73]

Literally minutes after all the verdicts had been read out I heard someone say something along the lines of "well I still think that if those Scousers had turned up a bit earlier it probably wouldn't have happened." I was already in tears and just walked away, you just can't reason with people like that even in the face of all the evidence, sadly. Some people will always believe what they want to.

[Filler.]

There will always be a few out there who'll stick to their guns about it all, and as has been said, educating and informing seems a pretty reduntant excercise now. If they don't want to hear the truth now, when will they?

But it's not just the odd fan who continues to deny the truth, there's also Brian Coleman who's doing a fine job, tweeting 'this whole expensive farce and a split jury delivering a pointless verdict .Sadly accidents happen people need to move on' moments after the ruling yesterday.

https://xcancel.com/BrianColeman251/status/724925331111575553

Reported in the Huffington Post:
Hillsborough Disaster: Ex-Tory Brian Coleman Sparks Backlash After Dismissing Inquest As ‘Pointless’
‘People need to move on,’ he said


That's Brian Coleman, ex Tory MP, a 'True Conservative', reprimanded for sending abusive emails to local residents, suspended by the Tory's after being charged with assault in Oct, 2012*, and who ran up a £10,000 taxi bill in under a year. "I won't [voluntarily publish details of their expense claims]do it voluntarily. It's none of the public's business"... "Politicians with lower expenses tend to be the politicians who do least work. Those with higher expenses are the ones who do most work."



So they're in good company. Murdoch, MacKenzie, Heffer, Ingham, Johnson - that's a great bunch to align oneself too isn't it? 'Pity' I think is the word to use.



*<sub>Coleman was arrested for assault for an incident that took place on 20 September 2012.[96] Helen Michael, a café owner in North Finchley who had actively opposed his policy on parking charges, saw him park his car in a loading bay opposite her café. She claimed that she was filming him on her mobile phone when he noticed her and attempted to grab the camera. A policeman intervened and Coleman then jumped into his car and attempted to drive off with both doors open, hitting a truck before speeding off. Coleman was charged with assault by beating and driving on a road without reasonable consideration.[97]

Coleman pleaded not guilty to the charges of assault by beating and careless driving at Uxbridge Magistrates' Court on 5 November.[98] On 3 May 2013 he pleaded guilty to the charge of assault and was fined £270 after CCTV footage of the incident[99] was shown in court.[100][101] He subsequently claimed that he entered a guilty plea as part of a deal to ensure he retained his driving licence.[102] On June 5 he was expelled from the Conservative Party[103] but he remained a member of Barnet council and announced he would seek re-election as an Independent candidate in the 2014 election. 
wiki</sub>

[gazzalfc]

Didn't want to post this in this part of the board before as the inquest was ongoing but darts player Peter 'Snakebite' Wright has a gimmick of styling his hair into a mohawk and styling the sides of his head in different patterns and decoration.

This was his choice of design for a recent match in Liverpool

[MOZ]

Villarreal fans will be displaying a 'You'll Never Walk Alone 96' banner in their south stand as the teams walk out tomorrow.

Nice touch from them.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

That doesn't really wash, especially after the 2012 findings.I'm still sticking with incredibly thick. What must these divvies be thinking when the listen to reports or read headlines? I don't think they're capable of absorbing what's being said. Their innate prejudice is too strong. The fellow forum members are doing their best, which is great to see. But as you rightly say, for us, just fuck 'em.

Not just about this event mate. They are ingrained beliefs. Years of brainwashing and repeats of lies makes it likely never to change in their views.

It's actually very sad for everyone.

[zero zero]

Not just about this event mate. They are ingrained beliefs. Years of brainwashing and repeats of lies makes it likely never to change in their views.

I agree Andy. That's why I used the word prejudice - from Latin praejudicium, from prae ‘in advance’ + judicium ‘judgement’. Minds that were already made up once they heard the words "Liverpool" and "football fans" they knew who to blame.

[please, I have my reasons for it but...]

We make fun of Claude from Arsenal Fan TV a lot, but he has written this on his twitter yesterday

claudio callegari ‏@goonerclaude  Apr 26
Justice at last for the families of the 96 fans who lost their lives at Hillsborough a great victory for the football family

[gregorio]

Not just about this event mate. They are ingrained beliefs. Years of brainwashing and repeats of lies makes it likely never to change in their views.

It's actually very sad for everyone.

Some of it on these websites is potentially libellous and their moderators / website owners should be very cautious about how they deal with this going forward