Topic: The small things in life that really hannoy

[BlackandWhitePaul]

People like him are fucking scum!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqArlcbHVRE

[Ghost Town]

Agree with this. The Muslims I've worked with loved the Christmas holidays. Obviously they weren't interested in the religious side of it but they're no different from most of the so-called Christian population. They were fully signed up to the idea of spending time at home with the family and eating to excess and, as we've seen from Mo's matching pyjamas pictures, they were happy to get involved in other aspects of the celebrations. It's political correctness gone mad to suggest otherwise.

It's not 'politicial correctness gone mad' or wokeism or whatever, though -  at least not in the UK, because it never happens.

What it IS, is an example of right wing tabloids, like the Rag and the Mail, stirring up hatred by false reporting, and the useful idiots or bigots who read them spreading the lies.

The big example, which is still claimed as fact by morons to this day, is the one about Birmingham City Council banning Christmas and changing the name to Winterval, in order not to offend Muslims.

Except that it was completely untrue, but was the kind of story that if written carefully and cynically in a rag acts as a dog whistle to all the moaning bigots out there, and the type of idiots who believe anything they read.

Birmingham only had an event called 'Winterval' once. In 1998. And it was not a replacement for Christmas, it was an umbrella title for a whole series of events over winter, beginning long before Christmas, and including Christmas (the word prominently used) and continuing after Christmas, all designed to attract people to the newly rebuilt city centre. It was literally nothing to do with renaming Christmas or not offending non-Christians.

But that's how the Mail and others reported it, and then were forced to issue corrections after they were busted by bloggers and lawyers.

And thereafter stories about 'councils banning Christmas to not offend minorities etc' continued to do the rounds, without any basis in fact.

[Buck Pete]

The Muslims. A great bunch of lads.

[rob1966]

It's not 'politicial correctness gone mad' or wokeism or whatever, though -  at least not in the UK, because it never happens.

What it IS, is an example of right wing tabloids, like the Rag and the Mail, stirring up hatred by false reporting, and the useful idiots or bigots who read them spreading the lies.

The big example, which is still claimed as fact by morons to this day, is the one about Birmingham City Council banning Christmas and changing the name to Winterval, in order not to offend Muslims.

Except that it was completely untrue, but was the kind of story that if written carefully and cynically in a rag acts as a dog whistle to all the moaning bigots out there, and the type of idiots who believe anything they read.

Birmingham only had an event called 'Winterval' once. In 1998. And it was not a replacement for Christmas, it was an umbrella title for a whole series of events over winter, beginning long before Christmas, and including Christmas (the word prominently used) and continuing after Christmas, all designed to attract people to the newly rebuilt city centre. It was literally nothing to do with renaming Christmas or not offending non-Christians.

But that's how the Mail and others reported it, and then were forced to issue corrections after they were busted by bloggers and lawyers.

And thereafter stories about 'councils banning Christmas to not offend minorities etc' continued to do the rounds, without any basis in fact.

Yes, but this started with Sams experiences in North America, where its Happy Holidays and Holiday season and this IS creeping into our language. to be honest, I wish most things we pick up from America was fucking dropped.

[Draex]

People like him are fucking scum!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqArlcbHVRE

Bet he voted Reform.

[Ghost Town]

Yes, but this started with Sams experiences in North America, where its Happy Holidays and Holiday season and this IS creeping into our language. to be honest, I wish most things we pick up from America was fucking dropped.

Honestly the whole thing is largely a big red herring and ones response to it tends to depend on one's pre-existing ideas about whether everything is 'going to hell in a handcart' or not.

'Happy Holidays' originates as much in Christianity and was, originally, as much of a Christian phrase, related to Christmas, as Merry Christmas. The word Holiday itself comes from the Anglo Saxon term hāligdæg which means 'holy day'and dates back to the 9th-century or earlier.

In fact hāligdæg/holiday as a word for Christmas is attested further back than the word Christmas which dates back to the late 11th century, as Cristes mæsse and wasn't in regular use, or used in its one word form 'Christmas', till the 15th-century. So it is actually the newer term of the two.

I wonder how many people back in the 11th to 15th centuries were complaining that this newfangled word 'Christmas' was being shoved in their faces by woke do-gooders instead of the 'proper' word 'holiday'?

Christians have used the word 'holiday' and the phrase 'Happy Holidays' to refer to Christmas and the advent period for ages, along with other terms like 'Season's Greetings' which no one seems to object to because we're more used to it from Christmas cards and the like.

Even the specific secular US use of 'Happy Holidays' dates back to the mid-1800s at least, so it's not anything 'new' or woke. The world back in the mid-1800s was many things but 'woke' it wasn't, esp in the USA.

It's true that in recent years the phrase 'Happy Holiday' has been used by some organisations etc in the US as a general inclusive term, but all they've done is taken a Christian phrase about Christmas and used it because they think it sounds more inclusive.

And there was no issue about this until - just like the Rag and the Daily Mail in my previous post - Fox News and the like started blathering on about a liberal 'War on Christmas' in the mid-2000s. And suddenly all the bigots, but also the non-bigots who are easily triggered by something they think is new (but often isn't), have started getting angry about it, where they never were before Fox got their slimey hands on it. Think about that for a minute.

I love Christmas and if I thought genuine attempts were being made to ban it, or diffuse it, or force people to use phrases that don't include the word 'Christmas' in it, then I would not be happy.

But I know that both media agitation and 'anecdatal' claims by people about this sort of stuff is almost always wrong or misunderstood. 

I doubt anyone, even in the US, is trying to ban Christmas or ban use of the word.

[SamLad]

Honestly the whole thing is largely a big red herring and ones response to it tends to depend on one's pre-existing ideas about whether everything is 'going to hell in a handcart' or not.

'Happy Holidays' originates as much in Christianity and was, originally, as much of a Christian phrase, related to Christmas, as Merry Christmas. The word Holiday itself comes from the Anglo Saxon term hāligdæg which means 'holy day'and dates back to the 9th-century or earlier.

In fact hāligdæg/holiday as a word for Christmas is attested further back than the word Christmas which dates back to the late 11th century, as Cristes mæsse and it wasn't in regular use, or used in its one word form 'Christmas', till the 15th-century. So it is actually the newer term of the two.

I wonder how many people back in the 11th to 15th centuries were complaining that this newfangled word 'Christmas' was being shoved in their faces by woke do-gooders instead of the 'proper' word 'holiday'?

Christians have used the word 'holiday' and the phrase 'Happy Holidays' to refer to Christmas and the advent period for ages, along with other terms like 'Season's Greetings' which no one seems to object to because we're more used to it from Christmas cards and the like.

Even the specific secular US use of 'Happy Holidays' dates back to the mid-1800s at least, so it's not anything 'new' or woke. The world back in the mid-1800s was many things but 'woke' it wasn't, esp in the USA.

It's true that in recent years the phrase 'Happy Holiday' has been used by some organisations etc in the US as a general inclusive term, but all they've done is taken a Christian phrase about Christmas and used it because they think it sounds more inclusive.

And there was no issue about this until - just like the Rag and the Daily Mail in my previous post - Fox News and the like started blathering on about a liberal 'War on Christmas' in the mid-2000s. And suddenly all the bigots, but also the non-bigots who are easily triggered by something they think is new (but often isn't), have started getting angry about it, where they never were before Fox got their slimey hands on it. Think about that for a minute.

I love Christmas and if I thought genuine attempts were being made to ban it, or diffuse it, or force people to use phrases that don't include the word 'Christmas' in it, then I would not be happy.

But I know that both media agitation and 'anecdatal' claims by people about this sort of stuff is almost always wrong or misunderstood. 

I doubt anyone, even in the US, is trying to ban Christmas or ban use of the word.

I didn't say anyone's banning the word (although many on the RW of US politics scream that they are).

what I said is the media hardly ever use "Christmas" any more and use "Holiday" instead. and many store signs use Holiday instead.

I explained why in my post.

and the etymology lesson is nice but totally irrelevant, mate.

[Ghost Town]

I didn't say anyone's banning the word (although many on the RW of US politics scream that they are).

what I said is the media hardly ever use "Christmas" any more and use "Holiday" instead. and many store signs use Holiday instead.

I explained why in my post.

Is this in Canada? Or the USA?

Of course, I'm not there so I don't know what's genuinely prevelent, but in cases such as this the perceived prevalence is often not matched by the reality. At a guess I would suspect that it's not being used half as much as it seems, and the word Christmas is still getting plenty of use.

You did say that you thought this was happening for 'woke' reasons, but I doubt that that, or inclusivity, are the primary reasons. There are some genuine issues regarding what has come to be termed as 'wokeism' which I won't go into here as its irrelevent, but with things like this - uses of phrases like Happy Holidays - I assume the hard-nosed businesses that are using them, are using them because they see from their analyses that this is what people want.

So it could be that society is getting so secularised and commercial that this is increasingly people's preference. The way to fight it is to show businesses etc that it's NOT what you want; that you'd rather keep the more traditional terms.

Things don't stand still in language. Just as Christmas replaced holiday as a term for the holy day in the 14th/15th century, so it may have started swinging back the other way now. If true, to stop that will need some efforts.

and the etymology lesson is nice but totally irrelevant, mate.

Always happy to spout that stuff, I find it great fun - the twists and turns and the facts often being contrary to expectations

[SamLad]

Is this in Canada? Or the USA?

Of course, I'm not there so I don't know what's genuinely prevelent, but in cases such as this the perceived prevalence is often not matched by the reality. At a guess I would suspect that it's not being used half as much as it seems, and the word Christmas is still getting plenty of use.

You did say that you thought this was happening for 'woke' reasons, but I doubt that that, or inclusivity, are the primary reasons. There are some genuine issues regarding what has come to be termed as 'wokeism' which I won't go into here as its irrelevent, but with things like this - uses of phrases like Happy Holidays - I assume the hard-nosed businesses that are using them, are using them because they see from their analyses that this is what people want.

So it could be that society is getting so secularised and commercial that this is increasingly people's preference. The way to fight it is to show businesses etc that it's NOT what you want; that you'd rather keep the more traditional terms.

Things don't stand still in language. Just as Christmas replaced holiday as a term for the holy day in the 14th/15th century, so it may have started swinging back the other way now. If true, to stop that will need some efforts.

Always happy to spout that stuff, I find it great fun - the twists and turns and the facts often being contrary to expectations

both Canada and US.

and with all respect Ghost mate, you seem to have a strong opinion about an issue in a place you acknowledge you don't know about.  I lived up to age 22 in the UK and all my family are still there, but I wouldn't dream of assuming I know what's happening on an issue like this.

I can guarantee you it is not "not being used half as much as it seems".

in fact a year or two back, tv news stations had comment pieces about it becoming more and more prevalent, and discussing the "religious and cultural sensitivities" that prompted its usage.  one Toronto station did a survey of non-Christians and came up with what I stated - they are quite happy seeing "Christmas" and don't feel slighted at all by it.

since then it has increased.

[Slippers]

Next door have thrown a pumpkin the size of a footstool over their back wall.

[afc tukrish]

Next door have thrown a pumpkin the size of a footstool over their back wall.

Happy Holidays...

[Kennys Jacket]

both Canada and US.

and with all respect Ghost mate, you seem to have a strong opinion about an issue in a place you acknowledge you don't know about.  I lived up to age 22 in the UK and all my family are still there, but I wouldn't dream of assuming I know what's happening on an issue like this.

I can guarantee you it is not "not being used half as much as it seems".

in fact a year or two back, tv news stations had comment pieces about it becoming more and more prevalent, and discussing the "religious and cultural sensitivities" that prompted its usage.  one Toronto station did a survey of non-Christians and came up with what I stated - they are quite happy seeing "Christmas" and don't feel slighted at all by it.

since then it has increased.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2011/nov/08/winterval-modern-myth-christmas

I think GT makes some good points. Private companies exist to make money - they obviously feel that using the word Christmas will alienate more people than it attracts and that is their prerogative.  The word Christmas isnt banned but some prefer to use a different word.

[SamLad]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2011/nov/08/winterval-modern-myth-christmas

I think GT makes some good points. Private companies exist to make money - they obviously feel that using the word Christmas will alienate more people than it attracts and that is their prerogative.  The word Christmas isnt banned but some prefer to use a different word.

that article has zero to do with what I posted

[Kennys Jacket]

that article has zero to do with what I posted

Well I think it beautifully encapsulates the discussion. You need to give in to the woke mob.

Merry Holidays, Sam.

Aren't you getting a festive name change ?

[rob1966]

Well I think it beautifully encapsulates the discussion. You need to give in to the woke mob.

Merry Holidays, Sam.

Aren't you getting a festive name change ?

SamHappyHolidaysLad

[Peabee]

Exactly. Who gives a shit. Most of my Muslim friends put up trees and give their kids presents on Xmas day. It was great working in London as we'd have celebrations for Xmas and Eid etc. Any excuse for me. I used to go round to my mates at the end of Ramadan because they'd have a great spread. 

[rob1966]

Exactly. Who gives a shit. Most of my Muslim friends put up trees and give their kids presents on Xmas day. It was great working in London as we'd have celebrations for Xmas and Eid etc. Any excuse for me. I used to go round to my mates at the end of Ramadan because they'd have a great spread. 

Greedy bastard

Going back to Sams point though, its Merry Christmas, not Happy Holidays. Happy Holidays was when we had the welcome drink in the hotel in Tenerife.

[SamLad]

SamHappyHolidaysLad

just leave me out.  it's bad enough keeping up with who's who without getting confused over who I am. 

[Ghost Town]

Santa's Stuck Up Sam's Ladder

We're gonna get you a Holiday Christmas name, Sam

[bradders1011]

Does anything in the world have a bigger profit margin than a cup of tea in a tourist attraction cafe?

[SamLad]

Santa's Stuck Up Sam's Ladder

We're gonna get you a Holiday Christmas name, Sam

if that happens, just leave out any reference to anything being stuck up anywhere, OK? 

[PaulF]

Can we change Ghost Town's name to Suzy Dent please?

[Son of Spion]

just leave me out.  it's bad enough keeping up with who's who without getting confused over who I am. 

You could keep your name in there. Something like Samta Claus. 

[SamLad]

really no need to pile on y'know.

at this rate I'll have a different name every week till January.

(and no that is not a fucking hint)

[Ghost Town]

Can we change Ghost Town's name to Suzy Dent please?

It's already in my Custom Title

[afc tukrish]

really no need to pile on y'know.

at this rate I'll have a different name every week till January.

(and no that is not a fucking hint)

ChrimboBaller...

[rob1966]

Does anything in the world have a bigger profit margin than a cup of tea in a tourist attraction cafe?

Wine - that bottle that costs £26 in those fancy bars costs them about £2

[rob1966]

really no need to pile on y'know.

at this rate I'll have a different name every week till January.

(and no that is not a fucking hint)

24/7 will deal with that

[Terry de Niro]

You could keep your name in there. Something like Samta Claus. 

I prefer Samtsirhc which is Christmas spelled backwards. 

[SamLad]

bunch of twats.





 

[Ghost Town]

bunch of twats.





 

Unusual choice for a name and not very Christmassy. But if it's what you prefer then Mods, make it so

[SamLad]

Unusual choice for a name and not very Christmassy. But if it's what you prefer then Mods, make it so

my best move right now is to just STFU



 

[Terry de Niro]

 

[Draex]

SamtasLittleLaddieHelper.

[Nobby Reserve]

Honestly the whole thing is largely a big red herring and ones response to it tends to depend on one's pre-existing ideas about whether everything is 'going to hell in a handcart' or not.

'Happy Holidays' originates as much in Christianity and was, originally, as much of a Christian phrase, related to Christmas, as Merry Christmas. The word Holiday itself comes from the Anglo Saxon term hāligdæg which means 'holy day'and dates back to the 9th-century or earlier.

In fact hāligdæg/holiday as a word for Christmas is attested further back than the word Christmas which dates back to the late 11th century, as Cristes mæsse and wasn't in regular use, or used in its one word form 'Christmas', till the 15th-century. So it is actually the newer term of the two.

I wonder how many people back in the 11th to 15th centuries were complaining that this newfangled word 'Christmas' was being shoved in their faces by woke do-gooders instead of the 'proper' word 'holiday'?

Christians have used the word 'holiday' and the phrase 'Happy Holidays' to refer to Christmas and the advent period for ages, along with other terms like 'Season's Greetings' which no one seems to object to because we're more used to it from Christmas cards and the like.

Even the specific secular US use of 'Happy Holidays' dates back to the mid-1800s at least, so it's not anything 'new' or woke. The world back in the mid-1800s was many things but 'woke' it wasn't, esp in the USA.

It's true that in recent years the phrase 'Happy Holiday' has been used by some organisations etc in the US as a general inclusive term, but all they've done is taken a Christian phrase about Christmas and used it because they think it sounds more inclusive.

And there was no issue about this until - just like the Rag and the Daily Mail in my previous post - Fox News and the like started blathering on about a liberal 'War on Christmas' in the mid-2000s. And suddenly all the bigots, but also the non-bigots who are easily triggered by something they think is new (but often isn't), have started getting angry about it, where they never were before Fox got their slimey hands on it. Think about that for a minute.

I love Christmas and if I thought genuine attempts were being made to ban it, or diffuse it, or force people to use phrases that don't include the word 'Christmas' in it, then I would not be happy.

But I know that both media agitation and 'anecdatal' claims by people about this sort of stuff is almost always wrong or misunderstood. 

I doubt anyone, even in the US, is trying to ban Christmas or ban use of the word.

 


Isn't the term 'Happy Holidays' in the US more a greeting that covers that Thanksgiving to Xmas/New Year period?

Whatt's an annoyance to me how we import Americanisms

[afc tukrish]

 


Isn't the term 'Happy Holidays' in the US more a greeting that covers that Thanksgiving to Xmas/New Year period?

Whatt's an annoyance to me how we import Americanisms

Fucking Americans...

[SamLad]

Had to go to the grocery store earlier.

I parked behind a car just as the driver was getting in.  I glanced down to get something from the passenger seat and when I looked up again the stupid fucker was backing into me.  Luckily no contact - only because I leaned on the horn though.

Then coming home I saw a Tesla truck on the road for the first time.  Jesus what a joke that shit is. Looks like a cartoon.  Designed by a 14-year old and driven by someone who is impressing nobody except 14-year olds, but obviously thinks he's cool. 

[Peabee]

Fucking Americans...

That's Trump's job. Ba doom tish.

[afc tukrish]

That's Trump's job. Ba doom tish.

Reasonably good, wry effort...

[Barneylfc]

Just saw on BBC there is a ceremony for "UK and Ireland Tiktok awards"

Any wonder kids are a mess these days when shitehawks like these are being lauded.